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Andy Pred 48

Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

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Tootoo will cost almost a mil against the cap and $1.9 mil in real money. A buyout eliminates the cap hit and $633k of money from the budget. Those are 2 reasons to not let the buyout go unused.

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It seems a lot of these threads are turning into offseason plans. So let's get it down on paper. In one spot. Post what you'd do. Is it offense? Defense? Goaltending? All? I'm not asking you to worry to much about the cap. Be realistic but you don't have to use capgeek. Ultimately, give rationale, not detailed numbers.

For me, it's time we start over. We need a new brand of hockey in Detroit. It's boring to watch and it's not working. The games aren't boring, but the way we play is. Leaving with Scotty was puck-possession. Let's move on. Let's get tougher. More blue-collar. We haven't gotten out of round 2 since 09. It's not good enough. Let's start from scratch.

To me, everyone is for sale except Hank and Pasha and Sproul and Oullett and Babs. After seeing these men and kids play, I think this is who you build your team around. You call with a fair price, and well, we'll talk it out.

Howard is being traded for whatever we can get. We need the cap space.

Franzen is being bought out.

Weiss is traded back to Florida for a buck, the second like trade in Detroit history, except this time we want the buck.

Big E and Kronwall are packaged together for a top-6 forward with size.

Nyquist and Tatar and Smith are traded for Oliver-Ekman Larsson.

Edited by wings7

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FOX Sports Detroit said this morning the team would target Niskanen and Boyle in Free Agency.

Tootoo probably isn't bought out because he doesn't really save them much money in doing so, but the Wings have one to use this season or lose it....

This will be a major off season for the Wings and Kenny Holland, who is nearing the end of his contract.

While I understand not using the buyout on Toots, I feel bad for the guy languishing in the minors. It's not his fault he signed the contract Holland offered him. If he hadn't, though, he would probably be playing for an NHL club that could use his particular brand of hockey.

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If someone wanted Tootoo they would have taken him in a trade. Holland has always been good about letting players get a shot somewhere else. If they're not being used by the Wings, he will take a conditional pick for said player. He did it with Commodore most recently, and with Stuart before that.

The sad reality seems to be that no team in the league wants Tootoo. His NHL career is over. And it's not because of us. We were the only ones who wanted him back when we signed him, too.

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If someone wanted Tootoo they would have taken him in a trade. Holland has always been good about letting players get a shot somewhere else. If they're not being used by the Wings, he will take a conditional pick for said player. He did it with Commodore most recently, and with Stuart before that.

The sad reality seems to be that no team in the league wants Tootoo. His NHL career is over. And it's not because of us. We were the only ones who wanted him back when we signed him, too.

In the salary cap world, Tootoo is getting paid too much. That hindered his trade-ability more than anything. If he's bought out and isn't picked up by another team, then I'll concede your point.

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Just spitballing some random ideas for our forward corps (not all should be implemented).

I don't know how/who - but I'd like to get a big bodied forward that can keep some flies off but still play effectively (a Lucic type). I'm not sure who fits this build though. Evander Kane might be someone similar but likely isn't available. I don't want to sign a goon just for the sake of having a goon - the player has to be able to fit in the top 6 such that we have protection for our talented players. We don't have anyone like this in the system. Brian Boyle might be another name but he doesn't have much offensive prowess.

Also, Jagr might be useful for a 1 year contract (give up no assets) - he is impossible to take the puck off of against the boards due to his immense strength - would match our possession style nicely. It would have to be Jagr over Alfie though which I think is an improvement.

One guy I wouldn't mind having - David Bolland (27 years old) - the guy is a competitor and a winner. Right handed C. Would be decent to have if we part ways with Weiss maybe.

I already mentioned I like Matt Moulson a lot for his finishing abilities - would be nice to put him with Dats or Z and see him pot his chances - Abby wastes 90% of his chances.

EDIT: Malykhin is also someone I'm interested in. Could be had for no assets and wants to play with Datsyuk. From the same town I think too.

Edited by dirtydangles

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So we need a new coach, a new GM, a new top Dman, a new top scorer, and a new starting goalie? Agreed?

Do we need a new logo too?

Dont forget New jerseys.

That sounded too devilish.

I was joking.

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I would actually be really intrigued by mantha playing with the eurotwins.

Sign Dan Boyle for two years

Let go of all ufa's

Trade kindl and lash away

Bring up ouellette and marchenko

If alfy wants back sign him and buy out franzen, if he retires keep franzen

Buy out tootoo if franzen isn't bought out

Sign Dustin Penner

Trade away drew miller

Z- pavel- mantha

Nyq-Weiss-alfy/mule

Jurco-sheahan- Tatar

Penner- helm- Abby

Glenny- Callahan

Kronwall- smith

Dekeyser- Boyle

E- ouellette/marchenko

Ouellette/marchenko

I would be very happy with these lines. I think mantha would absolutely thrive in this role. I expect Weiss to have a really great year and anchor the 2nd line. The sheahan line turns into the third line meaning better matchups for them. 4th line is great with speed and size.

Boyle helps the powerplay big time, as well as mantha.

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Helen St. James is usually just an echo of Holland. As in, she usually just repeats things he tells her.

This is important to understand because she indicating that the only UFA the Wings are concerned about bringing back is Alfredsson.

http://www.freep.com/article/20140427/SPORTS05/304270135/detroit-red-wings-free-agents

I tend to agree with this.

Would love to see him back. If he does come back, hopefully the Wings have a much more comfortable season when it comes to making the playoffs so he can get any rest he needs if he is banged up to get ready for the playoffs.

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If someone wanted Tootoo they would have taken him in a trade. Holland has always been good about letting players get a shot somewhere else. If they're not being used by the Wings, he will take a conditional pick for said player. He did it with Commodore most recently, and with Stuart before that.

The sad reality seems to be that no team in the league wants Tootoo. His NHL career is over. And it's not because of us. We were the only ones who wanted him back when we signed him, too.

The Problem with guys like Tootoo is, they aren't big enough to scare other tough-guys and overpaid for what they bring sadly. If he can act as some kind of a protector while McKee keeps adding musble in the AHL I'm fine with keeping him.

There are enough tough decisions ahead for Ken Holland I don't think Tootoo is a difficult one. Fixing this horrendous defense is a tough task but man Niskanen would be nice. Add to that the buyout decision when it comes down to Franzen/Weiss and the much needed size and grit acquisitions Holland might be looking at his busiest summer since almost a decade. And that doesn't even include all the RFA's DeKeyser = MUST re-sign.

I really liked Babcocks analysis of talking about the only veterans who will be back like Pasha, Z, Kronwall and Ericsson that's the way it should be all others can go and hopefully have a great career elsewhere.

as for Boyle god please no, same goes for Timmonen

also no to Alfie Wings have enough leadership and he simple can't bring it in the playoffs anymore. Thanks for the service and best of luck elsewhere

Edited by frankgrimes

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The Problem with guys like Tootoo is, they aren't big enough to scare other tough-guys and overpaid for what they bring sadly. If he can act as some kind of a protector while McKee keeps adding musble in the AHL I'm fine with keeping him.

There are enough tough decisions ahead for Ken Holland I don't think Tootoo is a difficult one. Fixing this horrendous defense is a tough task but man Niskanen would be nice. Add to that the buyout decision when it comes down to Franzen/Weiss and the much needed size and grit acquisitions Holland might be looking at his busiest summer since almost a decade. And that doesn't even include all the RFA's DeKeyser = MUST re-sign.

I really liked Babcocks analysis of talking about the only veterans who will be back like Pasha, Z, Kronwall and Ericsson that's the way it should be all others can go and hopefully have a great career elsewhere.

as for Boyle god please no, same goes for Timmonen

also no to Alfie Wings have enough leadership and he simple can't bring it in the playoffs anymore. Thanks for the service and best of luck elsewhere

Babcock also said Franzen is a vet who will be back next year.

As for Alfie, he was playing hurt in the end of the season and playoffs. If he is healthy, he can definitely still bring it.

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Babcock also said Franzen is a vet who will be back next year.

As for Alfie, he was playing hurt in the end of the season and playoffs. If he is healthy, he can definitely still bring it.

Babcock was asked about Franzen and his expectations and basically said: he has to meet expectations so right now I wouldn't be sure about him can go either way

Personally I don't think Alfie added enough for his pricetag, others may disagree but that's ok. I really like him as a player but we aren't close to a cup and that guy is all class and deserves a cup before retiring so I'd rather see him signing with a real contender and maybe get a real shot at the cup if he comes back for another season.

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You wanna rebuild but keep the aging vets instead of the kids? That makes sense.

If you want to build your team around Nyq and Tatar go ahead. See you in the Draft, Edmonton #2

Helen St. James is usually just an echo of Holland. As in, she usually just repeats things he tells her.

This is important to understand because she indicating that the only UFA the Wings are concerned about bringing back is Alfredsson.

http://www.freep.com/article/20140427/SPORTS05/304270135/detroit-red-wings-free-agents

I tend to agree with this.

Then he better take a big discount. Like 3 a year or less. We need more important pieces than a soft and old Alfie.

We need to trade for great players. Not old ones who are passed being great.

Edited by wings7

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If you want to build your team around Nyq and Tatar go ahead. See you in the Draft, Edmonton #2

Then he better take a big discount. Like 3 a year or less. We need more important pieces than a soft and old Alfie.

We need to trade for great players.

Doing things your way has this team in the draft lottery a lot quicker than doing anything with any common sense.

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Doing things your way has this team in the draft lottery a lot quicker than doing anything with any common sense.

No, you're right. Keep barely making the playoffs and losing before the conference finals. Not competing against BOS, SJ (x2), & NASH.

The Wings are fine. We don't need to make any changes.

#23!

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If you want to build your team around Nyq and Tatar go ahead. See you in the Draft, Edmonton #2

Then he better take a big discount. Like 3 a year or less. We need more important pieces than a soft and old Alfie.

We need to trade for great players.

Ah yes. Why didn’t I realize that?

“Hey everybody. It’s all good. Relax. Holland just has to trade for some great players and everything will be fine"

:lol:

marcaractac likes this

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No, you're right. Keep barely making the playoffs and losing before the conference finals. Not competing against BOS, SJ (x2), & NASH.

The Wings are fine. We don't need to make any changes.

#23!

Who is saying changes don't need to be made? You're talking cleaning house and only keeping a few guys who will no longer be playing by the end of the decade. That is not how a rebuild is done. If a team is to be blown up to start over, it is done the exact opposite as what you suggest. Keeping the youth, getting assets for the older guys. Still not a viable option for this team, as the future isn't near as bad as you seem to think it is.

Do changes need to be made? Yes. But not to the extent you seem to think. Cutting the dead wight and a couple important editions can have this team making noise once again. Players like Goose and Tatar will continue to grow and improve. They will learn how to win. 10 years ago Hank and Dats didn't know how to win either. People were even suggestion Dats should be traded because he was a playoff no show. See how things can change in a few short years?

If you wanna cheer for a team that blows everything up whenever they don't win, perhaps root for the Flyers? The Wings don't get top draft picks. The players they draft have to be developed over time. I'm glad Wings management has more patience than you do. It is the cap era. You don't build a team through trades and free agency. You build a team through the draft, then use free agency and trades to add pieces to make a run when the time is right. This team will get there. A lot sooner than you think.

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Ah yes. Why didn’t I realize that?

“Hey everybody. It’s all good. Relax. Holland just has to trade for some great players and everything will be fine"

:lol:

You're right. That's all my post said. You're so tough with your online sarcasm. Man, you're like as tough as Tatar or something.

Who is saying changes don't need to be made? You're talking cleaning house and only keeping a few guys who will no longer be playing by the end of the decade. That is not how a rebuild is done. If a team is to be blown up to start over, it is done the exact opposite as what you suggest. Keeping the youth, getting assets for the older guys. Still not a viable option for this team, as the future isn't near as bad as you seem to think it is.

Do changes need to be made? Yes. But not to the extent you seem to think. Cutting the dead wight and a couple important editions can have this team making noise once again. Players like Goose and Tatar will continue to grow and improve. They will learn how to win. 10 years ago Hank and Dats didn't know how to win either. People were even suggestion Dats should be traded because he was a playoff no show. See how things can change in a few short years?

If you wanna cheer for a team that blows everything up whenever they don't win, perhaps root for the Flyers? The Wings don't get top draft picks. The players they draft have to be developed over time. I'm glad Wings management has more patience than you do. It is the cap era. You don't build a team through trades and free agency. You build a team through the draft, then use free agency and trades to add pieces to make a run when the time is right. This team will get there. A lot sooner than you think.

One, Nyq and Tatar are not as good as Dats and Z. That's a fact. Nyq and Tatar look like potential Hudlers. Dats and Z at least were tough on the puck and back checked. Also, Dats did win. He won a Cup as a rookie.

Two, to get good players, you have to give up prospects. So give them up. Will Tatar be great? Maybe. He might also be the next Ville L., too. We need two top-4 D. Bad. Kronwall is a 3-4 and so is Big E. That's just the truth. Holland doesn't seem to realize that. And apparently, either do a lot of you.

Edited by wings7

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You're right. That's all my post said. You're so tough with your online sarcasm. Man, you're like as tough as Tatar or something.

One, Nyq and Tatar are not as good as Dats and Z. That's a fact. Nyq and Tatar look like potential Hudlers. Dats and Z at least were tough on the puck and back checked.

Two, to get good players, you have to give up prospects. So give them up. Will Tatar be great? Maybe. He might also be the next Ville L., too. We need two top-4 D. Bad. Kronwall is a 3-4 and so is Big E. That's just the truth. Holland doesn't seem to realize that. And apparently, either do a lot of you.

I now know not to take anything you ever say seriously. Kronwall a 3-4 dman? Please. I guess when a team does so much winning, some fans expectations get absolutely warped. If Kronwall is a 2nd pairing dman, in your world there are 60 dmen in the league better than him. But have fun continuing to tout your opinions as fact. Makes an entertaining read.

nawein likes this

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You're right. That's all my post said. You're so tough with your online sarcasm. Man, you're like as tough as Tatar or something.

One, Nyq and Tatar are not as good as Dats and Z. That's a fact. Nyq and Tatar look like potential Hudlers. Dats and Z at least were tough on the puck and back checked.

Two, to get good players, you have to give up prospects. So give them up. Will Tatar be great? Maybe. He might also be the next Ville L., too. We need two top-4 D. Bad. Kronwall is a 3-4 and so is Big E. That's just the truth. Holland doesn't seem to realize that. And apparently, either do a lot of you.

Kronwall is a 3-4 and Nyquist doesn't backcheck? Are we being serious with this right now? A couple of kids in their first full seasons aren't as good as 2 world class forwards so let's just ignore any potential they show. Also, Nyquist is already about as good as Hudler, and better defensively. I can't get over that you said Kronwall is a 3-4. He's a number one. 2 at worst on any team in the league.

marcaractac likes this

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I now know not to take anything you ever say seriously. Kronwall a 3-4 dman? Please. I guess when a team does so much winning, some fans expectations get absolutely warped. If Kronwall is a 2nd pairing dman, in your world there are 60 dmen in the league better than him. But have fun continuing to tout your opinions as fact. Makes an entertaining read.

I know you've been watching Wings hockey ever since you got cable in St. Johns, but he used to be a better d-man when HE WAS A 3-4 defensemen. Remember when we had Lids-Rafalski as a pair and Kronwall-Stuart. He hasn't handled the top pairing very well. He was groomed to be the next Lids and guess what, he's not. He's not the next Konstatinov. He's just an average, pretty soft for his size, mistake-prone, defenseman. Or he just plays that way as a 1-2 defenseman. But yeah, you're right. You know all about hockey because you come from the hot bed that is Newfoundland.

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Kronwall is a 3-4 and Nyquist doesn't backcheck? Are we being serious with this right now? A couple of kids in their first full seasons aren't as good as 2 world class forwards so let's just ignore any potential they show. Also, Nyquist is already about as good as Hudler, and better defensively. I can't get over that you said Kronwall is a 3-4. He's a number one. 2 at worst on any team in the league.

Truth. No team in this league has 2 dmen that are better than Kronwall. Most teams don't have 1 dman better than him. All of a sudden if someone doesn't look like Lidstrom out there they aren't good enough.

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