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Andy Pred 48

Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

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I don't think we're landing a big, physical scoring winger and a top-four defenseman in one summer. But if I were going to try to swing it, I'd realize that Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser, and Smith - they're Wings for the long haul, and that's going to be an issue because Ouellet, Sproul, Marchenko, Backman, and maybe Almqvist are all looking like they're going to be pretty good NHL defensemen. Package one or two of them along with one of Nyquist/Tatar/Sheahan/Jurco and a pick and/or a roster player or two (Andersson? Kindl? Lashoff?), and I think that winger or defenseman might be obtainable. Then make a splash in free agency for the other half, and there is your winger+dman double shot espresso.

THIS. Either we go balls to the walls to make a trade for someone worthwhile or we should promote the kids. Some fringe top 4 dman via free agency only makes things worse long term when our D prospects get poached when they run out of options.

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Calgary is a team that was getting old all around, with absolutely no youth ready to come in because they either traded them all away or just flat out sucked at drafting. So please continue to tell me how the Wings relate to that. The team is loaded with young talent. They aren't gonna become impact NHL'ers over night. You, along with many, are wanting a knee jerk quick fix to get the team at the top of the league. Quick fixes do not work in the cap era.

You know what? People might take the time to debate things with you like an adult if you didn't keep conducting yourself like a child in these forums.

It seems you know nothing about Calgary then. Their 'core' were pretty young, their oldest core player was Kipper for a lot of years.

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It seems you know nothing about Calgary then. Their 'core' were pretty young, their oldest core player was Kipper for a lot of years.

Their big problem was having zero depth in their prospect pool. It is not an issue the Wings have. You think the likes of Hank, Dats and Kronwall are gonna sit by and accept tanking a season?

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Sorry you guys feel I am being rude. I feel like you guys are starting with me. Name calling when I bring up my ideas. I've apologized to St. John's once. This is a second time. (His apology count? Zero).

Sorry for coming off like a child as you say. But when I just post my idea of a lineup and then it's ripped and I'm called names and what have you, I will retaliate. It's what makes online debating so great and awful at the same time.

Don't act like you are being respectful but I am not.

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It seems you know nothing about Calgary then. Their 'core' were pretty young, their oldest core player was Kipper for a lot of years.

Well that's just plain wrong.. Conroy, Staios, Morrison and Langkow were all older than Kipper and Iginla, Jokinen, Sarich, Tanguay, and Regehr (among others) are right around the same age. Their core was not "young".

marcaractac likes this

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I get it, the Wings just got eliminated, emotions are running hot right now. Keep this thread on topic, do not resort to personal attacks or other similar remarks in attempt to get your point across. This is your only notification, any further derailing or insults thrown at each other, warnings and/or suspensions will be handed out. Keep it civil.

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Well that's just plain wrong.. Conroy, Staios, Morrison and Langkow were all older than Kipper and Iginla, Jokinen, Sarich, Tanguay, and Regehr (among others) are right around the same age. Their core was not "young".

Exactly. They had that run to the finals, and they tried to squeeze every last bit they could out of that team for quite a few years following. On top of those aging vets, they had little to no depth in the prospect pool to develop. The Wings have the luxury of having loads of depth in the prospect pool. Along with having guys like Dats, Hank and Kronwall around for them to learn from.

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Exactly. They had that run to the finals, and they tried to squeeze every last bit they could out of that team for quite a few years following. On top of those aging vets, they had little to no depth in the prospect pool to develop. The Wings have the luxury of having loads of depth in the prospect pool. Along with having guys like Dats, Hank and Kronwall around for them to learn from.

Lets see when this period began around 2008, their top three forwards were younger than Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Alfie. They also had Bouwmeester, Phaneuf, Rene Bourque, etc who are all younger as as talented as analogous players on Detroit. And their prospect pool wasn't bad, it was full of the same type of players ours is currently full of: Boom/Bust prospects and few blue chip guys. The blue chip prospects they did have they would trade at the deadline for that 'one last piece' to get them into the dance. Sounds a lot like Detroit, doesn't it?

Edited by Shaman

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Most fans wouldn't have a problem reigning Alfie, and that's just fine, but at some point we have to stop signing 35+ year olds who are on the downside of their careers. Why not spend the 3-4 mil Alfie will cost on a younger version of him.

Shaman and kipwinger like this

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Lets see when this period began around 2008, their top three forwards were younger than Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Alfie. They also had Bouwmeester, Phaneuf, Rene Bourque, etc who are all younger as as talented as analogous players on Detroit. And their prospect pool wasn't bad, it was full of the same type of players ours is currently full of: Boom/Bust prospects and few blue chip guys. The blue chip prospects they did have they would trade at the deadline for that 'one last piece' to get them into the dance. Sounds a lot like Detroit, doesn't it?

Problem is, they didn't make it to the dance. This team is in sooooo much better shape than Calgary has been in years.

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Problem is, they didn't make it to the dance. This team is in sooooo much better shape than Calgary has been in years.

No it's not, outside of Mantha there is no player that has a good chance or replacing Datsyuk or Zetterberg's production. Detroit is thin at center, and goaltending and they are still a little thin on blue chip defense prospects, Sproul and Ouellet both project to be top 4, but neither slot in as a #1. Calgary in 2008 was stronger than Detroit is today on defense and goaltending and defense. As for their prospect pool then compared to ours, I would say ours is only slightly stronger, and if Holland pulls another Legwand it will become a wash.

Edited by Shaman

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No it's not, outside of Mantha there is no player that has a good chance or replacing Datsyuk or Zetterberg's production. Detroit is thin at center, and goaltending and they are still a little thin on blue chip defense prospects, Sproul and Ouellet both project to be top 4, but neither slot in as a #1. Calgary in 2008 was stronger than Detroit is today on defense and goaltending and defense. As for their prospect pool then compared to ours, I would say ours is only slightly stronger, and if Holland pulls another Legwand it will become a wash.

You are looking at things from an absolute worst case scenario. There is enough youth in the system to keep the team competitive. More than enough. When the time is right and guys are far enough developed at the NHL level, the time will be right to make moves to add any missing pieces for a run. Tanking a season and losing our best players is not the answer. That would be becoming the Edmonton Oilers.

I know people like to use Colorado as an example of why the Wings should tank. But Colorado had to suck for a long time to get where they are. Sucking for one year didn't get them there.

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Most fans wouldn't have a problem reigning Alfie, and that's just fine, but at some point we have to stop signing 35+ year olds who are on the downside of their careers. Why not spend the 3-4 mil Alfie will cost on a younger version of him.

I don't agree with this logic. Lots of people share your view, but having on old vet doesn't kill a team's chances to win anything. I don't care if they sign a 40 year old vet every year, so long as the vet helps and they don't load up with them. People get caught up in minor details like this and forget that winning a Cup is all about a holistic approach.

You don't win by having no 40 year olds, or all tough guys, or all big guys, or all skill guys. You need a perfect balance. And like Datsyuk said, nobody knows the magic balance. You just keep trying to find it.

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Well I sure as hell know what we don't need: A sniper for Datsyuk and Zetterberg, a solid puck-moving defenseman, a shutdown defenseman, a power forward for the top 6, and a physical 4th liner.

Edited by Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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I don't agree with this logic. Lots of people share your view, but having on old vet doesn't kill a team's chances to win anything. I don't care if they sign a 40 year old vet every year, so long as the vet helps and they don't load up with them. People get caught up in minor details like this and forget that winning a Cup is all about a holistic approach.

You don't win by having no 40 year olds, or all tough guys, or all big guys, or all skill guys. You need a perfect balance. And like Datsyuk said, nobody knows the magic balance. You just keep trying to find it.

Truth. I do hope Alfie sticks around. With the guys getting conditioned this summer, it would lead to a lot less stress next season as long as the right moves are made in July. Giving Alfie rest during the season (like on back to back games and what not) to have him ready for the playoffs would be huge. He is a leader and can still get it done when healthy. It also never hurts to have someone like him around to try and win it for.

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I don't agree with this logic. Lots of people share your view, but having on old vet doesn't kill a team's chances to win anything. I don't care if they sign a 40 year old vet every year, so long as the vet helps and they don't load up with them. People get caught up in minor details like this and forget that winning a Cup is all about a holistic approach.

You don't win by having no 40 year olds, or all tough guys, or all big guys, or all skill guys. You need a perfect balance. And like Datsyuk said, nobody knows the magic balance. You just keep trying to find it.

Not at all what I said. Alfie is a 40 year that's just about done, he has to play with Pav or Z to contribute; if he's not on the top 2 lines he'll disappear-just like he did for much of the second half.

His Job was to shoot first pass later, yet most of the time he got the puck late in the season and into the playoffs, he would instead differ to other players to take the shot. Some of that may have been injury related, or his confidence was down, I just didn't like what I saw from him.

But to your point; the league over time has seen plenty of 40 year old's that could still play with younger players and there have been some that have dominated into their 40's, but unfortunately Alfie is not one of them. Can he still play? Yes, but I don't have the same loyalty towards him that Sens fans would have towards him, so I'd prefer to move on. That being said I'm not blind to the circumstances, if he wants to continue to play; Holland will welcome him back.

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The streak is a joke. Over half the teams in the NHL make the playoffs (about 54% of teams), this isn't like the Atlanta Brave's streak of 14 years where one team per division makes the playoffs plus one wild card (26% of teams). I really don't get why people are so up their own asses about it.

You can keep saying this--you can even stomp your feet and hold your breath--but it won't change the ownership or Holland's minds. You opinion doesn't matter. Theirs does and the streak is clearly a priority to them.

Additionally, if the streak were such a joke, half of the teams in the NHL would have active twenty year streaks. That's what your math suggests, right?

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You can keep saying this--you can even stomp your feet and hold your breath--but it won't change the ownership or Holland's minds. You opinion doesn't matter. Theirs does and the streak is clearly a priority to them.

Additionally, if the streak were such a joke, half of the teams in the NHL would have active twenty year streaks. That's what your math suggests, right?

You do realize that 20 year playoff streaks have happened 7 times in NHL history, right? It's not that special.

And the Illitchs seem to be more concerned with the Tigers, as for Holland, his motto lately has been 'If you can't be successful, redefine what success is'. It use to be a season was a waste if they weren't making the conference finals, then it was a waste if they weren't contenders at least, now it's a waste if they don't eek into the playoffs.

Edited by Shaman

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Most fans wouldn't have a problem reigning Alfie, and that's just fine, but at some point we have to stop signing 35+ year olds who are on the downside of their careers. Why not spend the 3-4 mil Alfie will cost on a younger version of him.

This was my argument last year. Don't sign Alfie and have nyquist start in his spot from day one.

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You do realize that 20 year playoff streaks have happened 7 times in NHL history, right? It's not that special.

THE WINGS OWNERSHIP AND MANAGEMENT THINK THE STREAK SPECIAL.

Repeat that 3 times and I'll bang my head on the desk for luck.

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The playoff streak is incredible and I, for one am glad they traded for Legrand to keep it alive.

I know everyone here wants to compete for the cup every year but with 29 other teams vying for the same thing it just is not realistic. The Wings need to go through their down years just like everyone else.

If they can "rebuild" on the fly and continue to make the playoffs throughout, all the better.

Edited by greenrebellion

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THE WINGS OWNERSHIP AND MANAGEMENT THINK THE STREAK SPECIAL.

Repeat that 3 times and I'll bang my head on the desk for luck.

And people who make mudpies thing they have value. It doesn't matter what they think, they are selling a product.

I go to multiple games a year, buy their merchandise, watch their broadcasts. I am their customer and their product is fast becoming s***.

Edited by Shaman

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(Spoiler alert: I'm going to talk about James Wisniewski a lot in this post. I'm not pining for him, or lamenting any past decisions. I'm just using him as an example to explain why we should pursue Niskanen. If your response to the post is, "Wisniewski suckz!" you missed the point).

I don't want to get into the weeds too much on this issue (that's what this summer is for), but I do think we should sign Matt Niskanen. Sure you'd have to overpay (a little) for him, but we've got the money and he fills a TON of needs. He's an up an coming young, right handed, top four, puck mover, who's very good on the pp. He's also coming into the age were d-men finally hit their stride.

All summer everyone will nitpick and find reasons to not like this move, just like they did back when we were all debating about whether to acquire Wisniewski a couple years ago. They'll say the contract is bad, they'll say it's an overpayment, they'll put a microscope on each and every one of his shortcomings. But at the end of the day, the amount you'll overpay will less than what you'll pay all the scrubs you'll bring in trying to find a cheap alternative.

Think about it this way, using Wisniewski as an example. Let's say he's getting paid a million more than he's worth (he'd be worth every penny of 4.5 million for his pts., aggressiveness, and pp shot alone). Over the life of his contract you overpaid him by six million dollars. How much did we pay Commodore, White, and Colaiacovo total? A good bit more and got worse players. At the very least the 51 extra points and physicality might have been nice this season.

I can dig it.

Personally, I'm just wary of any player whose breakout season also happens to be a contract season. I'm not saying you should hold it against the guy. I just think of the 5,000,000 players who've set the world on fire for a season, scored a big ass contract, then gone on to be big disappointments. I fear that's sort of what would happen with Quincey if we were to re-sign him. "Man, Quincey improved so much last season, but he seems to have gone right back to being dog s*** this year. Why?" Probably because he was playing for a contract. It doesn't necessarily reflect poorly on him, it's just how it so often goes with this kind of thing.

Also, I do wonder what we'd do about The Youth Below. Like I said, we've already got four defensemen who are going to be Wings for a long time. Niskanen would be a fifth. Maybe we trade Marchenko and Backman and Almqvist, but even then, we'd only have room for one of Ouellet/Sproul. Point being, if we're going to add someone who's going to be with us for a long time, we'd better be damn sure he's going to be damn good for us.

Of course, this might all be moot; I've heard he'll probably re-sign with the Pens.

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And people who make mudpies thing they have value. It doesn't matter what they think, they are selling a product.

I go to multiple games a year, buy their merchandise, watch their broadcasts. I am their customer and their product is fast becoming s***.

Tell the Wings. Vote with your pocketbook. Write a letter. Hell, get on twitter and try to convince @DetroitRedWings that the streak is meaningless. You've got numerous options.

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Tell the Wings. Vote with your pocketbook. Write a letter. Hell, get on twitter and try to convince @DetroitRedWings that the streak is meaningless. You've got numerous options.

Or I can join a forum and talk about it.

MabusIncarnate likes this

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