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RainingBlood

Confused on the direction of this team going forward

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Lets also remember that Calle had 36 pts in 57 games with GR... with most all those points coming in the later half of games right right before the trade.

On a crappier farm team he proceeded to put up 9 pts in 6 games, warranting a call up.

On a terrible NSH team he then put up 9 pts in 12 games. (Zberg did not put up those pt %s at 23 or even 22 in Sweden)

You can argue that depth was worse so he got more oppurtunity, but linemates were also worse, so that kind of evens out.

Everything points to a very good 22 year old C. Again I still liked the trade, but I hope I don't kick myself in 2 or 3 seasons.

krsmith17 likes this

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So then nothing we can believe is true?

Mantha probably blows? But only if we trade him right?

When Hakan Andersson says after this years draft that “hopefully we were able to get a centre to play with Mantha” I file that under:

- things I believe to not be bulls*** hype

- things said by a super-scout about a prospect, with a level of reverence never used on Jarnkrok.

When I read Fischer’s quotes on Jarnkrok I think of the passionate way in which he spoke of Sproul in this video (starting at the 50 second mark). When he says “Sproul can shoot the puck better, harder, under pressure, than 90% of the players in the NHL” (2:45) I want to believe him, but part of me knows that there’s probably some over-zealousness in play. I imagine him looking and sounding the same way when talking about Jarnkrok:

But whatevs. Maybe I’m over-analysing. I just find it hard to accept that Holland would knowingly trade “the next Zetterberg” for David Legwand but then say that Tatar, Jurco, Nyquist, and Sheahan are basically untouchable.

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When Hakan Andersson says after this years draft that “hopefully we were able to get a centre to play with Mantha” I file that under:

- things I believe to not be bulls*** hype

- things said by a super-scout about a prospect, with a level of reverence never used on Jarnkrok.

When I read Fischer’s quotes on Jarnkrok I think of the passionate way in which he spoke of Sproul in this video (starting at the 50 second mark). When he says “Sproul can shoot the puck better, harder, under pressure, than 90% of the players in the NHL” (2:45) I want to believe him, but part of me knows that there’s probably some over-zealousness in play. I imagine him looking and sounding the same way when talking about Jarnkrok:

But whatevs. Maybe I’m over-analysing. I just find it hard to accept that Holland would knowingly trade “the next Zetterberg” for David Legwand but then say that Tatar, Jurco, Nyquist, and Sheahan are basically untouchable.

I agree with you on that, and that's why I was for the trade. I Know they know better than me. I just don't think we should bash Calle until he really shows his value. In my book he's still a top level prospect until he proves otherwise. And like I said I will be so relived if the otherwise happens.

krsmith17 likes this

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I agree with you on that, and that's why I was for the trade. I Know they know better than me. I just don't think we should bash Calle until he really shows his value. In my book he's still a top level prospect until he proves otherwise. And like I said I will be so relived if the otherwise happens.

Yeah. We all know that if Holland had his way, he’d hang on to ALL of his prospects but leave them in GRs forever. I mean the last significant prospect he traded before Jarnkrok was who? Mathais?

It’s common belief around these parts that Poille robbed Holland on the Legwand deal. But you have to ask yourself, while Holland’s made some questionable signings and whiffed on some must-sign UFAs, I can’t remember the last time he lost a trade that involved a top prospect or roster player.

Some might argue “yeah, that’s because he never makes ANY trades”. To which I might add, maybe he doesn’t make any trades because GMs all ask for too much and he won’t pull the trigger. Because he’s patient as f*** and because he likes to horde his prospects. He has to. To me this makes more sense than Holland having a Dr Stangelove type breakdown and in a sweaty twitch, pressing some red button that sends Calle to Nashville.

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So you don't find it hypocritical to rudely correct someone else's grammar and then use terrible grammar yourself? If you made a grammar mistake that ALTERS YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT there is no shame in correcting yourself.

But now you're deviating from the auto-correct excuse huh?

So you made a quick off the cuff comment, that if you had really thought out, you may have adjusted it to 2-7?

If the above is true wouldn't it just have been easier to say something like "my bad, those were just the first two to pop into my head" at the beginning instead of dragging your feet and throwing around insults?

So then nothing we can believe is true?

Mantha probably blows? But only if we trade him right?

Or maybe you should've realized that's what I meant cause I only said it what seven times seven different ways.

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Or maybe you should've realized that's what I meant cause I only said it what seven times seven different ways.

Girls, please! I know its been a long boring summer for you both, but just hang in there, you'll finally be starting Junior High in less than one month!

wings4thecup06 likes this

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I agree with you on that, and that's why I was for the trade. I Know they know better than me. I just don't think we should bash Calle until he really shows his value. In my book he's still a top level prospect until he proves otherwise. And like I said I will be so relived if the otherwise happens.

That's the LGW way though. Everybody is a stud until he's not in the organization anymore. We're like Red Sox fans. "Johnny Damon is the kind of guy you build a franchise around"....*Damon goes to Yankees*..."f*** that bum. I never liked him".

Jarnkrok was/is a good prospect. Any revisionist attempt to paint him as some washout is demonstrably false. I don't care if people liked the trade or didn't, doesn't matter now. But the extra step of trying to justify it post hoc by claiming that Jarnkrok wasn't any good is bulls***.

"I like to think of him like a Zetterberg." - Scout Ari Vouri

"He has great hockey sense, very tenacious, a lot of (Henrik) Zetterberg-type qualities. He’s strong on the puck, never gives up on the puck.” - Jim Nill

"He’s probably the best prospect in our organization overall." - Jiri Fischer

“We all feel he’s a top-six forward in the long run." - Hakan Andersson

“The stuff he can do, he is as good as anybody in terms of hand-eye coordination and skill in tight places. It’s just a matter of time until he starts putting up big numbers." - Jiri Fischer

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That's the LGW way though. Everybody is a stud until he's not in the organization anymore. We're like Red Sox fans. "Johnny Damon is the kind of guy you build a franchise around"....*Damon goes to Yankees*..."f*** that bum. I never liked him".

Jarnkrok was/is a good prospect. Any revisionist attempt to paint him as some washout is demonstrably false. I don't care if people liked the trade or didn't, doesn't matter now. But the extra step of trying to justify it post hoc by claiming that Jarnkrok wasn't any good is bulls***.

"I like to think of him like a Zetterberg." - Scout Ari Vouri

"He has great hockey sense, very tenacious, a lot of (Henrik) Zetterberg-type qualities. He’s strong on the puck, never gives up on the puck.” - Jim Nill

"He’s probably the best prospect in our organization overall." - Jiri Fischer

“We all feel he’s a top-six forward in the long run." - Hakan Andersson

“The stuff he can do, he is as good as anybody in terms of hand-eye coordination and skill in tight places. It’s just a matter of time until he starts putting up big numbers." - Jiri Fischer

I can't speak for the rest of LGWs, but I was never trying to justify anything. I'm trying to understand why Holland thought he was disposbale.

As far as what Wings brass said about him, they also like comparing Pulkinen to Hull and Jari Kurri. Raise your hand if you think Teemu will ever score 50 goals in the NHL. It's more likely he'll score 25 and look a bit like those guys while doing it.

We've got people here saying Jarnkrok sucks (your Damon comparison is spot on) and we've got people here saying that Jarkrok's going to be the next Zetterberg because the two names were used in the same sentence by Wings management and staff. I like the idea that I'm somewhere in the middle.

One thing's for sure, we have spent waaaaay more time talking about Jarnkrok post-trade then we ever did when he was still a Wings prospect. What does that say?

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I can't speak for the rest of LGWs, but I was never trying to justify anything. I'm trying to understand why Holland thought he was disposbale.

As far as what Wings brass said about him, they also like comparing Pulkinen to Hull and Jari Kurri. Raise your hand if you think Teemu will ever score 50 goals in the NHL. It's more likely he'll score 25 and look a bit like those guys while doing it.

We've got people here saying Jarnkrok sucks (your Damon comparison is spot on) and we've got people here saying that Jarkrok's going to be the next Zetterberg because the two names were used in the same sentence by Wings management and staff. I like the idea that I'm somewhere in the middle.

One thing's for sure, we have spent waaaaay more time talking about Jarnkrok post-trade then we ever did when he was still a Wings prospect. What does that say?

Jarnkrok was only in North America for half a season before the trade. It stands to reason we wouldn't be talking about him, most of us had never seen him play one shift of hockey prior to this last season. There isn't any chatter about Backman either, but not because he's no good. Nobody's seen him play and he doesn't have a track record in North America to compare things too.

So, it could mean we didn't have much to say about a guy we'd never seen. Or it could be that there's always going to be more to say about losing a good prospect for nothing, than keeping one in your system for a few years. For instance, I'd have a lot more to say about Andreas Athanasiou if Holland traded him for a guy that walked at the end of a disappointing season.

Edited by kipwinger

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Or maybe you should've realized that's what I meant cause I only said it what seven times seven different ways.

No you didn't

You didn't once address how many elite goal you think there currently are until your last post. First you commented on how many their could theoretically be. Then you spewed some insults and stuff about autocorrect. Then finally you came around to actually address the subject. So don't act like you have been all along.

If you disagree feel free to quote the "7" posts you made during our argument where you talk about how many elite goalies the league has currently. Good luck.

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Jarnkrok was only in North America for half a season before the trade. It stands to reason we wouldn't be talking about him, most of us had never seen him play one shift of hockey prior to this last season. There isn't any chatter about Backman either, but not because he's no good. Nobody's seen him play and he doesn't have a track record in North America to compare things too.

So, it could mean we didn't have much to say about a guy we'd never seen. Or it could be that there's always going to be more to say about losing a good prospect for nothing, than keeping one in your system for a few years. For instance, I'd have a lot more to say about Andreas Athanasiou if Holland traded him for a guy that walked at the end of a disappointing season.

Exactly. But everone's got something to say now.

And the Athanasiou point is valid. Right now he's a prospect that some of us really like. Until he gets traded for Cody Franson and suddenly mutates into "the next awesome player guy".

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I don't see a direction and have given up looking for one. So whatever happens happens, hopefully it leads to some sort of direction in the long run. If someone comes to be asking what type of team we are my reply would be:,,Well the Detroit Red Wings stylewise who knows...<magic box>"

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Exactly. But everone's got something to say now.

And the Athanasiou point is valid. Right now he's a prospect that some of us really like. Until he gets traded for Cody Franson and suddenly mutates into "the next awesome player guy".

Yeah because something happened. He got traded. And played his first 12 NHL games immediately after.

I'm not sure whether Jarnkrok will be the next awesome player or not. I hope he doesn't and I hope KH and co really did see something disposable in him. But if I was a NSH fan I'd be pretty happy with his play so far.

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Good article. Also,

"Kronwall has remained an effective No. 1 defenseman for the team."

SUCK IT HATERZ

Ahem there are only seven #1 defensmen in the league, thus Kronwall is a #2 at best.

number9 likes this

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Yea I read it too. Good article that seems to actually give credence to the youth that the wings have built up while simultaneously chastising management's somewhat costly obsession with hanging on to older worn down players for too long.

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Yea I read it too. Good article that seems to actually give credence to the youth that the wings have built up while simultaneously chastising management's somewhat costly obsession with hanging on to older worn down players for too long.

I agree.

...But, at the same time, I have to wonder if there's really much of a conflict there in the first place. Nyquist and Tatar and Sheahan and Jurco are all NHL players, and of those four, only Jurco's at risk of being sent down for any amount of time. Beyond those four, what other pretty-clearly-ready-to-make-a-big-difference-with-the-big-club young forwards do we have in the system? Personally, I'd say Pulkkinen, but I could also make a strong case for keeping him on the farm for another season. Of course, even then (him being a Griffin for another season), we're almost sure to see more of him as a Wing this coming season than we saw of him this past season (hello injuries, and hello having organizational depth so that injuries aren't the kiss of death), so he's going to get his looks.

Beyond Pulkkinen, I guess there's Callahan and Ferraro, but I dunno that there's a crying need for either of them if our team is healthy. Mantha? We don't really know yet. Maybe he has a legendary camp, maybe (more likely) he shows he isn't ready.

I feel it's essentially the same situation on the blue line. Ouellet is pretty solid and Marchenko had a remarkable season. I think those two are the top candidates for graduation and I imagine that's what's going to happen - by the end of the season, they'll be regulars, or maybe one will be traded (as they're somewhat similar players and we'll likely be looking to make a big trade this season). Beyond them? Personally, I feel Sproul is the most promising, but I could make a strong case for him spending another season as a Griffin. I feel we have someone special in Backman, but I don't know that he's really ready to face NHL forwards every night and look good doing it. Jensen's an option, but he missed time and development because of his shoulder.

I do think Mrazek probably should've been promoted. But with Gustavsson back in the fold, we have three solid options instead of just two. That's injury insurance at the most important position in hockey. I'm ok with that.

So, moves like re-signing Cleary and Quincey weren't strokes of genius and will keep a couple kids down. But I can't make a list of "Kids Who Are Totally Getting Shafted." All I can really think of is Jurco, and even he might never see the farm again.

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I agree.

...But, at the same time, I have to wonder if there's really much of a conflict there in the first place. Nyquist and Tatar and Sheahan and Jurco are all NHL players, and of those four, only Jurco's at risk of being sent down for any amount of time. Beyond those four, what other pretty-clearly-ready-to-make-a-big-difference-with-the-big-club young forwards do we have in the system? Personally, I'd say Pulkkinen, but I could also make a strong case for keeping him on the farm for another season. Of course, even then (him being a Griffin for another season), we're almost sure to see more of him as a Wing this coming season than we saw of him this past season (hello injuries, and hello having organizational depth so that injuries aren't the kiss of death), so he's going to get his looks.

Beyond Pulkkinen, I guess there's Callahan and Ferraro, but I dunno that there's a crying need for either of them if our team is healthy. Mantha? We don't really know yet. Maybe he has a legendary camp, maybe (more likely) he shows he isn't ready.

I feel it's essentially the same situation on the blue line. Ouellet is pretty solid and Marchenko had a remarkable season. I think those two are the top candidates for graduation and I imagine that's what's going to happen - by the end of the season, they'll be regulars, or maybe one will be traded (as they're somewhat similar players and we'll likely be looking to make a big trade this season). Beyond them? Personally, I feel Sproul is the most promising, but I could make a strong case for him spending another season as a Griffin. I feel we have someone special in Backman, but I don't know that he's really ready to face NHL forwards every night and look good doing it. Jensen's an option, but he missed time and development because of his shoulder.

I do think Mrazek probably should've been promoted. But with Gustavsson back in the fold, we have three solid options instead of just two. That's injury insurance at the most important position in hockey. I'm ok with that.

So, moves like re-signing Cleary and Quincey weren't strokes of genius and will keep a couple kids down. But I can't make a list of "Kids Who Are Totally Getting Shafted." All I can really think of is Jurco, and even he might never see the farm again.

While that's true that there might not be any kids besides Jurco who you could say definitely should be on the roster at the start of the year, were we really saying that about Sheahan and Jurco this time last year? Nyquist and Tatar yes, although Tatar properly hadn't proved himself at that point either.

What I'm getting at is that given the opportunity, some of these kids will step up and grab the job and just run with it. Like Sheahan and Jurco did last year. I get the feeling that that would probably happen with either of Ouellet or Marchenko. My personal opinion is that they should find a way to trade Kindl and go with either of those two guys and just see what happens. What really, have we got to lose? That third pairing can't be worse than it was last season, and both guys have been strong when called upon for NHL duty.

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