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Confused on the direction of this team going forward


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#101 barabbas16

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:25 PM

Because kronwall never was elite. Even with dat and z on the decline they still can play at that level it's just not what they use to be.

 

Again, though, the post said 'have' and 'is.'  It did not say 'had' and 'was.'

 

So, just for full clarification, please list the players on the Wings roster that you consider to be elite currently.



#102 number9

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:44 PM

 

Again, though, the post said 'have' and 'is.'  It did not say 'had' and 'was.'

 

So, just for full clarification, please list the players on the Wings roster that you consider to be elite currently.

 

Kronwall isn't elite because he has never been one of the top 2-3 D-men in the league.

 

Datsyuk and Zetterberg are still elite because at one point they were the top 2-3 in the league, until they declined to where they weren't, but sometimes they can still play at that level. Thus they are elite. 

 

What aren't you following?  :lol:



#103 Euro_Twins

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:47 PM

 
Kronwall isn't elite because he has never been one of the top 2-3 D-men in the league.
 
Datsyuk and Zetterberg are still elite because at one point they were the top 2-3 in the league, until they declined to where they weren't, but sometimes they can still play at that level. Thus they are elite. 
 
What aren't you following?  :lol:


When z and d are healthy they are most certainly elite. But you can't say the top 2-3 players in the league are elite only. Z and d are no longer top 2-3. You have stamkos Crosby Malkin Tavares toews who are all in their prime.

#104 number9

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:55 PM

When z and d are healthy they are most certainly elite. But you can't say the top 2-3 players in the league are elite only. Z and d are no longer top 2-3. You have stamkos Crosby Malkin Tavares toews who are all in their prime.

 

I was trying to be sarcastic, but yes I agree. I think Degrass backed himself into a corner by claiming that only 2-3 players are elite at their position. Heck I think there's at least 5 "elite"goalies in this league. And since there's 30 starting goalies in this league that means that theirs 60 top pairing D-men, and I believe at least 6 or 7 could be considered elite. And When it comes to forwards there's even more. I don't think the term elite should ever be pigeon-holes into one specific number. Personally I consider D and Z very elite, Kronwall no. Very proficient, but not a game-changer.



#105 number9

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:01 PM

I'll say this, Hedman, Giordano, Vlasic, and Niskanen all finished higher in Norris voting than Kronwall, OEL, and Subban this year. I thought that was insulting to those 3 players as I believe they all played better than the first 4. 



#106 DeGraa55

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 10:55 PM

 
I was trying to be sarcastic, but yes I agree. I think Degrass backed himself into a corner by claiming that only 2-3 players are elite at their position. Heck I think there's at least 5 "elite"goalies in this league. And since there's 30 starting goalies in this league that means that theirs 60 top pairing D-men, and I believe at least 6 or 7 could be considered elite. And When it comes to forwards there's even more. I don't think the term elite should ever be pigeon-holes into one specific number. Personally I consider D and Z very elite, Kronwall no. Very proficient, but not a game-changer.


I'm not saying only 2-3 are. It varies year to year. But for that era there was 3 elite goalies the ones I listed. They were clearly head and shoulders above the rest.

#107 number9

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 02:50 PM

NHL.com just listed Calle as their #2 prospect behind Forsberg *sigh*

 

I'm not saying only 2-3 are. It varies year to year. But for that era there was 3 elite goalies the ones I listed. They were clearly head and shoulders above the rest.

 

Except you said exactly that

 

You said it WAS Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, NOW it's Henrik and Quick



#108 rick zombo

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 03:25 PM

NHL.com just listed Calle as their #2 prospect behind Forsberg *sigh*
 


So what? Hockey's Future has Detroit ranked as the 3rd best organization in terms of prospects right now (rankings that were made after Jarnkrok was traded). For the record, Nashville are ranked 14th.

Jarnkrok is thd #2 prospect on a team that's inferior to Detroit in terms of prospects.
"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#109 number9

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 03:36 PM

So what? Hockey's Future has Detroit ranked as the 3rd best organization in terms of prospects right now (rankings that were made after Jarnkrok was traded). For the record, Nashville are ranked 14th.

Jarnkrok is thd #2 prospect on a team that's inferior to Detroit in terms of prospects.

 

I know, I'm just going to be upset if Jarnkrok really does become an elite talent.



#110 DeGraa55

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 03:38 PM

NHL.com just listed Calle as their #2 prospect behind Forsberg *sigh*
 
 
Except you said exactly that
 
You said it WAS Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, NOW it's Henrik and Quick


Yes for that era. Tell me who else is in that class? It's just those three.

#111 DickieDunn

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 04:19 PM

 

I know, I'm just going to be upset if Jarnkrok really does become an elite talent.

 

He was never projected to be elite.  Zetterberg type game, Filppula level performance.


Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#112 number9

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 06:45 PM

Uhhhh

 

To me elite is like top 2 or 3 at that position. Like goalies. Elite we had guys like Brodeur Roy and hasek now it's henrik and quick.

So to me kronwall is very good but not elite.

 

You state that now the elite are Henrik and Quick. 2 goalies.

 

I'm not saying only 2-3 are. It varies year to year. But for that era there was 3 elite goalies the ones I listed. They were clearly head and shoulders above the rest.

 

Then you state that there's not just 2-3, effectively contradicting yourself.

 

Yes for that era. Tell me who else is in that class? It's just those three.

 

I thought I was being very clear. Hope that's a bit clearer for you.


 

He was never projected to be elite.  Zetterberg type game, Filppula level performance.

 

For a long time around here he was being heralded as our next Zberg or at least something closer to that than Filppula was or is.



#113 DeGraa55

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 10:59 PM

Uhhhh
 
 
You state that now the elite are Henrik and Quick. 2 goalies.
 
 
Then you state that there's not just 2-3, effectively contradicting yourself.
 
 
I thought I was being very clear. Hope that's a bit clearer for you.

 
For a long time around here he was being heralded as our next Zberg or at least something closer to that than Filppula was or is.


There could be 30 elite goalies if they all had 1gaa but does that happen? No. So there isn't a god Damn set standard of 1 or 2 or 3. It changes based on who actually plays at an elite level.

I don't understand what's so difficult to understand. It pretty simple.

Edited by DeGraa55, 10 August 2014 - 11:06 PM.


#114 DickieDunn

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 05:27 AM

Uhhhh
 


To me elite is like top 2 or 3 at that position. Like goalies. Elite we had guys like Brodeur Roy and hasek now it's henrik and quick.
So to me kronwall is very good but not elite.


 
You state that now the elite are Henrik and Quick. 2 goalies.
 


I'm not saying only 2-3 are. It varies year to year. But for that era there was 3 elite goalies the ones I listed. They were clearly head and shoulders above the rest.


 
Then you state that there's not just 2-3, effectively contradicting yourself.
 


Yes for that era. Tell me who else is in that class? It's just those three.


 
I thought I was being very clear. Hope that's a bit clearer for you.

 
He was never projected to be elite.  Zetterberg type game, Filppula level performance.


 
For a long time around here he was being heralded as our next Zberg or at least something closer to that than Filppula was or is.


I'm not talking fans. Fans go overboard. I'm talking scouts.

Oh this young man has had a very trying rookie season, with the litigation, the notoriety, his subsequent deportation to Canada and that country's refusal to accept him, well, I guess that's more than most 21-year-olds can handle... Ogie Ogilthorpe!


#115 ozone923

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 09:56 AM

I trust that Holland and co. saw something that was disposable in Jarnkrok. Theres a reason theyve held so strongly with the others, including Jurco. And one cannot trust the 'editors' at NHL.com to make a list of groceries let alone top prospects. Keep in mind that the highly touted Forsberg has yet to prove he can play the North American game as well. 

What I'm trying to say is I hope to god that Jarnkrok doesn't pan out.



#116 T.Low

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 11:42 AM

I trust that Holland and co. saw something that was disposable in Jarnkrok. Theres a reason theyve held so strongly with the others, including Jurco. And one cannot trust the 'editors' at NHL.com to make a list of groceries let alone top prospects. Keep in mind that the highly touted Forsberg has yet to prove he can play the North American game as well. 
What I'm trying to say is I hope to god that Jarnkrok doesn't pan out.

Fwiw, The weekend the Griffins came to town, I noticed that every time someone said "Holy Crap, whose that guy?", it was Pulkinen. The only time Jarnkroks name came up was when someone would ask, "So, which one is Jarnkrok, where's he?". Just saying...


I did make a comment on lgw regarding how Jarnkrok was everywhere, then later I realized I was thinking of Pulkinen, I just got the names mixed up.

Edited by T.Low, 11 August 2014 - 11:45 AM.


#117 TheXym

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 11:58 AM

So the Jarnkrok hype was actually a brilliant smokescreen to protect the preferred prospects? I can see it now if Jarnkrok ends up a bust - Ken Holland lights up a cigar, and in his best George Peppard voice cackles "I love it when a plan comes together!"
It's pronounced "Zim" not "Exim". Aw heck with it, just call me Scott.

#118 number9

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 06:18 PM

There could be 30 elite goalies if they all had 1gaa but does that happen? No. So there isn't a god Damn set standard of 1 or 2 or 3. It changes based on who actually plays at an elite level.

I don't understand what's so difficult to understand. It pretty simple.

 

Dude, I'm not debating you about how many elite goalies there could be. I agree that it is fluid and changes. And have said nothing contrary to that. Quit trying to change the subject and make this about something else.

 

I quoted and highlighted your statements and your refusing to address them now.

 

You said "NOW IT'S HENRIK AND QUICK". Thats TWO goalies. I agree that, that number can change, but I'm not talking about whether it can or not. I'm talking about how you stated you believe there to be 2 elite goalies at the moment... then contradicted yourself later on by saying "I'M NOT SAYING ONLY 2-3 ARE". Keyword: ARE. Not was or were. And you specifically said that in a reply to a post I made about the current league.

 

Why don't you address those bolded quotes that you yourself made, and that I have now quoted multiple time, instead of trying to argue a different point about the number of elites changing year to year (Of course they do).



#119 DeGraa55

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 08:27 PM

 
Dude, I'm not debating you about how many elite goalies there could be. I agree that it is fluid and changes. And have said nothing contrary to that. Quit trying to change the subject and make this about something else.
 
I quoted and highlighted your statements and your refusing to address them now.
 
You said "NOW IT'S HENRIK AND QUICK". Thats TWO goalies. I agree that, that number can change, but I'm not talking about whether it can or not. I'm talking about how you stated you believe there to be 2 elite goalies at the moment... then contradicted yourself later on by saying "I'M NOT SAYING ONLY 2-3 ARE". Keyword: ARE. Not was or were. And you specifically said that in a reply to a post I made about the current league.
 
Why don't you address those bolded quotes that you yourself made, and that I have now quoted multiple time, instead of trying to argue a different point about the number of elites changing year to year (Of course they do).


Go be an English teacher if you really want to critique someone you god dman grammar nazi.

I'm on an iPhone does your old ass know what that is? It auto corrects half my s*** an do frankly don't have the time to check every god damn thing I type. So shove the are, were and whatever else up your ass.

#120 number9

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 08:42 PM

Go be an English teacher if you really want to critique someone you god dman grammar nazi.

I'm on an iPhone does your old ass know what that is? It auto corrects half my s*** an do frankly don't have the time to check every god damn thing I type. So shove the are, were and whatever else up your ass.

 

? Then why wouldn't you just say it was an auto correct error from the beginning? I couldn't care less about your grammar...

 

Instead you skirted the issue in multiple responses, and are now claiming your phone auto-corrected the word are? Yeah ok bud. 

 

PS in our last "engagement" in another thread YOU corrected MY grammar... so I'd watch the grammar nazi insults my friend. I'll go quote it if you don't remember. 







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