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Confused on the direction of this team going forward


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#121 DeGraa55

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 08:52 PM

 
? Then why wouldn't you just say it was an auto correct error from the beginning? I couldn't care less about your grammar...
 
Instead you skirted the issue in multiple responses, and are now claiming your phone auto-corrected the word are? Yeah ok bud. 
 
PS in our last "engagement" in another thread YOU corrected MY grammar... so I'd watch the grammar nazi insults my friend. I'll go quote it if you don't remember. 


I prolly did. I couldn't care less though.

But you need to stop being anal about stuff. Just because I used to goalies as an example doesn't mean they're they only two. So I might say 2 then 2-3 then 2-7 depending on the year. Youre picking a fight to pick a fight.

#122 number9

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 09:02 PM

I'm not talking fans. Fans go overboard. I'm talking scouts.

 

“He’s probably the best prospect in our organization overall. Whenever he makes the transition overseas, he’s going to be really exciting to watch at the NHL level.” — Red Wings director of player development Jiri Fischer (December 2012)

 

He's been compared to Zetterberg by multiple people within our organization and Zberg is the only player he's ever been compared to by the Red Wings. They've also never pegged him as say, a probable 3rd liner, or probable 2nd liner. From our understanding from the scouts it was always the sky could be the limit with this kid. Now did that change at some point making him expendable? Sure. But I personally doubt it. He was traded just when he was starting to dominate the NA game in GR.

 

I was personally fine with the trade at the time. I wanted to see the streak continue. But now that Leggy is gone and Jarnkrok is gone and the PO's are over, I feel a bit stung by the trade. The Red Wings will be fine without Calle but I'll continue to follow him and his career hoping that he really does dud and the wings knew what they were doing. But everyone who bashes his talent all of the sudden I think are just being homers. 



#123 rick zombo

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 09:14 PM

 
Hes probably the best prospect in our organization overall. Whenever he makes the transition overseas, hes going to be really exciting to watch at the NHL level. Red Wings director of player development Jiri Fischer (December 2012)
 
He's been compared to Zetterberg by multiple people within our organization and Zberg is the only player he's ever been compared to by the Red Wings. They've also never pegged him as say, a probable 3rd liner, or probable 2nd liner. From our understanding from the scouts it was always the sky could be the limit with this kid. Now did that change at some point making him expendable? Sure. But I personally doubt it. He was traded just when he was starting to dominate the NA game in GR.
 
I was personally fine with the trade at the time. I wanted to see the streak continue. But now that Leggy is gone and Jarnkrok is gone and the PO's are over, I feel a bit stung by the trade. The Red Wings will be fine without Calle but I'll continue to follow him and his career hoping that he really does dud and the wings knew what they were doing. But everyone who bashes his talent all of the sudden I think are just being homers. 


Keep in mind, Fischer's job is to pump the tires of these kids and sell Detroit's prospects in general.

In fact everyone but Holland seem to do this. Kind of like good cop bad cop.
"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#124 number9

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 09:16 PM

I prolly did. I couldn't care less though.

But you need to stop being anal about stuff. Just because I used to goalies as an example doesn't mean they're they only two. So I might say 2 then 2-3 then 2-7 depending on the year. Youre picking a fight to pick a fight.

 

So you don't find it hypocritical to rudely correct someone else's grammar and then use terrible grammar yourself? If you made a grammar mistake that ALTERS YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT there is no shame in correcting yourself.

 

But now you're deviating from the auto-correct excuse huh?

 

So you made a quick off the cuff comment, that if you had really thought out, you may have adjusted it to 2-7?

 

If the above is true wouldn't it just have been easier to say something like "my bad, those were just the first two to pop into my head" at the beginning instead of dragging your feet and throwing around insults?


Keep in mind, Fischer's job is to pump the tires of these kids and sell Detroit's prospects in general.

In fact everyone but Holland seem to do this. Kind of like good cop bad cop.

 

So then nothing we can believe is true?

 

Mantha probably blows? But only if we trade him right?



#125 kipwinger

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 09:31 PM

Keep in mind, Fischer's job is to pump the tires of these kids and sell Detroit's prospects in general.

In fact everyone but Holland seem to do this. Kind of like good cop bad cop.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure about this Fischer comment.  His job is to oversee the development of all the organization's prospects.  Not sell them to anyone.  They've already been drafted.  Who would he be selling them to?  Fans?


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#126 number9

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 09:33 PM

Lets also remember that Calle had 36 pts in 57 games with GR... with most all those points coming in the later half of games right right before the trade.

 

On a crappier farm team he proceeded to put up 9 pts in 6 games, warranting a call up.

 

On a terrible NSH team he then put up 9 pts in 12 games. (Zberg did not put up those pt %s at 23 or even 22 in Sweden)

 

You can argue that depth was worse so he got more oppurtunity, but linemates were also worse, so that kind of evens out.

 

Everything points to a very good 22 year old C. Again I still liked the trade, but I hope I don't kick myself in 2 or 3 seasons.



#127 rick zombo

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 10:12 PM

 

So then nothing we can believe is true?

 

Mantha probably blows? But only if we trade him right?

 

When Hakan Andersson says after this years draft that “hopefully we were able to get a centre to play with Mantha” I file that under:

 

- things I believe to not be bulls*** hype

- things said by a super-scout about a prospect, with a level of reverence never used on Jarnkrok.

 

When I read Fischer’s quotes on Jarnkrok I think of the passionate way in which he spoke of Sproul in this video (starting at the 50 second mark). When he says “Sproul can shoot the puck better, harder, under pressure, than 90% of the players in the NHL” (2:45) I want to believe him, but part of me knows that there’s probably some over-zealousness in play. I imagine him looking and sounding the same way when talking about Jarnkrok:

 

 

But whatevs. Maybe I’m over-analysing. I just find it hard to accept that Holland would knowingly trade “the next Zetterberg” for David Legwand but then say that Tatar, Jurco, Nyquist, and Sheahan are basically untouchable. 


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#128 number9

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 10:19 PM

 

When Hakan Andersson says after this years draft that “hopefully we were able to get a centre to play with Mantha” I file that under:

 

- things I believe to not be bulls*** hype

- things said by a super-scout about a prospect, with a level of reverence never used on Jarnkrok.

 

When I read Fischer’s quotes on Jarnkrok I think of the passionate way in which he spoke of Sproul in this video (starting at the 50 second mark). When he says “Sproul can shoot the puck better, harder, under pressure, than 90% of the players in the NHL” (2:45) I want to believe him, but part of me knows that there’s probably some over-zealousness in play. I imagine him looking and sounding the same way when talking about Jarnkrok:

 

 

But whatevs. Maybe I’m over-analysing. I just find it hard to accept that Holland would knowingly trade “the next Zetterberg” for David Legwand but then say that Tatar, Jurco, Nyquist, and Sheahan are basically untouchable. 

 

 

I agree with you on that, and that's why I was for the trade. I Know they know better than me. I just don't think we should bash Calle until he really shows his value. In my book he's still a top level prospect until he proves otherwise. And like I said I will be so relived if the otherwise happens.



#129 rick zombo

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 11:00 PM

 

 

I agree with you on that, and that's why I was for the trade. I Know they know better than me. I just don't think we should bash Calle until he really shows his value. In my book he's still a top level prospect until he proves otherwise. And like I said I will be so relived if the otherwise happens.

 

Yeah. We all know that if Holland had his way, he’d hang on to ALL of his prospects but leave them in GRs forever. I mean the last significant prospect he traded before Jarnkrok was who? Mathais?

 

It’s common belief around these parts that Poille robbed Holland on the Legwand deal. But you have to ask yourself, while Holland’s made some questionable signings and whiffed on some must-sign UFAs, I can’t remember the last time he lost a trade that involved a top prospect or roster player. 

 

Some might argue “yeah, that’s because he never makes ANY trades”. To which I might add, maybe he doesn’t make any trades because GMs all ask for too much and he won’t pull the trigger. Because he’s patient as f*** and because he likes to horde his prospects. He has to. To me this makes more sense than Holland having a Dr Stangelove type breakdown and in a sweaty twitch, pressing some red button that sends Calle to Nashville. 


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#130 DeGraa55

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 11:37 PM

 
So you don't find it hypocritical to rudely correct someone else's grammar and then use terrible grammar yourself? If you made a grammar mistake that ALTERS YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT there is no shame in correcting yourself.
 
But now you're deviating from the auto-correct excuse huh?
 
So you made a quick off the cuff comment, that if you had really thought out, you may have adjusted it to 2-7?
 
If the above is true wouldn't it just have been easier to say something like "my bad, those were just the first two to pop into my head" at the beginning instead of dragging your feet and throwing around insults?

 
So then nothing we can believe is true?
 
Mantha probably blows? But only if we trade him right?



Or maybe you should've realized that's what I meant cause I only said it what seven times seven different ways.

#131 T.Low

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 02:17 AM

Or maybe you should've realized that's what I meant cause I only said it what seven times seven different ways.




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#132 kipwinger

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 08:36 AM

 

 

I agree with you on that, and that's why I was for the trade. I Know they know better than me. I just don't think we should bash Calle until he really shows his value. In my book he's still a top level prospect until he proves otherwise. And like I said I will be so relived if the otherwise happens.

 

That's the LGW way though.  Everybody is a stud until he's not in the organization anymore.  We're like Red Sox fans.  "Johnny Damon is the kind of guy you build a franchise around"....*Damon goes to Yankees*..."f*** that bum.  I never liked him". 

 

Jarnkrok was/is a good prospect.  Any revisionist attempt to paint him as some washout is demonstrably false.  I don't care if people liked the trade or didn't, doesn't matter now.  But the extra step of trying to justify it post hoc by claiming that Jarnkrok wasn't any good is bulls***. 

 

"I like to think of him like a Zetterberg." - Scout Ari Vouri

"He has great hockey sense, very tenacious, a lot of (Henrik) Zetterberg-type qualities. He’s strong on the puck, never gives up on the puck.” - Jim Nill

"He’s probably the best prospect in our organization overall." - Jiri Fischer

“We all feel he’s a top-six forward in the long run." - Hakan Andersson

“The stuff he can do, he is as good as anybody in terms of hand-eye coordination and skill in tight places. It’s just a matter of time until he starts putting up big numbers." - Jiri Fischer


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#133 rick zombo

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:44 AM

 

That's the LGW way though.  Everybody is a stud until he's not in the organization anymore.  We're like Red Sox fans.  "Johnny Damon is the kind of guy you build a franchise around"....*Damon goes to Yankees*..."f*** that bum.  I never liked him". 

 

Jarnkrok was/is a good prospect.  Any revisionist attempt to paint him as some washout is demonstrably false.  I don't care if people liked the trade or didn't, doesn't matter now.  But the extra step of trying to justify it post hoc by claiming that Jarnkrok wasn't any good is bulls***. 

 

"I like to think of him like a Zetterberg." - Scout Ari Vouri

"He has great hockey sense, very tenacious, a lot of (Henrik) Zetterberg-type qualities. He’s strong on the puck, never gives up on the puck.” - Jim Nill

"He’s probably the best prospect in our organization overall." - Jiri Fischer

“We all feel he’s a top-six forward in the long run." - Hakan Andersson

“The stuff he can do, he is as good as anybody in terms of hand-eye coordination and skill in tight places. It’s just a matter of time until he starts putting up big numbers." - Jiri Fischer

 

I can't speak for the rest of LGWs, but I was never trying to justify anything. I'm trying to understand why Holland thought he was disposbale.

 

As far as what Wings brass said about him, they also like comparing Pulkinen to Hull and Jari Kurri. Raise your hand if you think Teemu will ever score 50 goals in the NHL. It's more likely he'll score 25 and look a bit like those guys while doing it.

 

We've got people here saying Jarnkrok sucks (your Damon comparison is spot on) and we've got people here saying that Jarkrok's going to be the next Zetterberg because the two names were used in the same sentence by Wings management and staff. I like the idea that I'm somewhere in the middle.

 

One thing's for sure, we have spent waaaaay more time talking about Jarnkrok post-trade then we ever did when he was still a Wings prospect. What does that say?


"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#134 kipwinger

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:49 AM

 

I can't speak for the rest of LGWs, but I was never trying to justify anything. I'm trying to understand why Holland thought he was disposbale.

 

As far as what Wings brass said about him, they also like comparing Pulkinen to Hull and Jari Kurri. Raise your hand if you think Teemu will ever score 50 goals in the NHL. It's more likely he'll score 25 and look a bit like those guys while doing it.

 

We've got people here saying Jarnkrok sucks (your Damon comparison is spot on) and we've got people here saying that Jarkrok's going to be the next Zetterberg because the two names were used in the same sentence by Wings management and staff. I like the idea that I'm somewhere in the middle.

 

One thing's for sure, we have spent waaaaay more time talking about Jarnkrok post-trade then we ever did when he was still a Wings prospect. What does that say?

 

Jarnkrok was only in North America for half a season before the trade.  It stands to reason we wouldn't be talking about him, most of us had never seen him play one shift of hockey prior to this last season.  There isn't any chatter about Backman either, but not because he's no good.  Nobody's seen him play and he doesn't have a track record in North America to compare things too.

 

So, it could mean we didn't have much to say about a guy we'd never seen.  Or it could be that there's always going to be more to say about losing a good prospect for nothing, than keeping one in your system for a few years.  For instance, I'd have a lot more to say about Andreas Athanasiou if Holland traded him for a guy that walked at the end of a disappointing season. 


Edited by kipwinger, 12 August 2014 - 11:50 AM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#135 number9

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:53 AM

Or maybe you should've realized that's what I meant cause I only said it what seven times seven different ways.

 

No you didn't

 

You didn't once address how many elite goal you think there currently are until your last post. First you commented on how many their could theoretically be. Then you spewed some insults and stuff about autocorrect. Then finally you came around to actually address the subject. So don't act like you have been all along.

 

If you disagree feel free to quote the "7" posts you made during our argument where you talk about how many elite goalies the league has currently. Good luck.



#136 rick zombo

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 12:04 PM

 

Jarnkrok was only in North America for half a season before the trade.  It stands to reason we wouldn't be talking about him, most of us had never seen him play one shift of hockey prior to this last season.  There isn't any chatter about Backman either, but not because he's no good.  Nobody's seen him play and he doesn't have a track record in North America to compare things too.

 

So, it could mean we didn't have much to say about a guy we'd never seen.  Or it could be that there's always going to be more to say about losing a good prospect for nothing, than keeping one in your system for a few years.  For instance, I'd have a lot more to say about Andreas Athanasiou if Holland traded him for a guy that walked at the end of a disappointing season. 

 

Exactly. But everone's got something to say now.

 

And the Athanasiou point is valid. Right now he's a prospect that some of us really like. Until he gets traded for Cody Franson and suddenly mutates into "the next awesome player guy".


"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#137 frankgrimes

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 02:58 PM

I don't see a direction and have given up looking for one. So whatever happens happens, hopefully it leads to some sort of direction in the long run. If someone comes to be asking what type of team we are my reply would be:,,Well the Detroit Red Wings stylewise who knows...<magic box>"


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#138 number9

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 03:08 PM

 

Exactly. But everone's got something to say now.

 

And the Athanasiou point is valid. Right now he's a prospect that some of us really like. Until he gets traded for Cody Franson and suddenly mutates into "the next awesome player guy".

 

Yeah because something happened. He got traded. And played his first 12 NHL games immediately after.

 

I'm not sure whether Jarnkrok will be the next awesome player or not. I hope he doesn't and I hope KH and co really did see something disposable in him. But if I was a NSH fan I'd be pretty happy with his play so far.



#139 Dabura

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 03:50 PM

This is a good piece:

 

Core Values: Henrik Zetterberg at center of transitioning Red Wings [Chris Peters, CBSSports.com]


Edited by Dabura, 13 August 2014 - 03:50 PM.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#140 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 03:56 PM

This is a good piece:
 
Core Values: Henrik Zetterberg at center of transitioning Red Wings [Chris Peters, CBSSports.com]


Good article. Also,

"Kronwall has remained an effective No. 1 defenseman for the team."

SUCK IT HATERZ

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Just look at how he hangs his sunglasses from his banana hammock in that last pic.  This guyf****** rules. --kipwinger






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