• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

FireCaptain

Alfie wants to play

Rate this topic

192 posts in this topic

Pucktividi, it doesn't and shouldn't always come down to who is the better player, sometimes it has to be a more calculated decision. When it comes down to handing a roster spot to a (21 year old) kid that still has another year of waiver exemption (Tomas Jurco), or re-signing a (future hall-of-fame) veteran to a reasonable contract (Daniel Alfredsson), I would pick the second one 95% of the time.

In my opinion there are a number of reasons for doing this. One being point production. In this case, both player will more than likely produce the same number of points, my guess being between 40-50. Secondly, development. I'm a big believer that a player is much better off playing top line minutes in all situations in the minors rather than getting sheltered minutes and no special teams in the pros. Another thing would be confidence. This doesn't apply as much to a player like Jurco as much as Mantha, but confidence can definitely be completely diminished if thrown in to the deep end too early. I'm sure there are even more reasons but I'm going to finish off with team depth. A veteran player like Alfredsson is brought in, while a great young kid like Jurco is buried to increase the overall depth of the team. When the inevitable injuries hit, Jurco / Mantha are great first call ups.

Everyone is well aware of how highly I regard Jurco, he is far and away my favorite prospect and will more than likely be my favorite Red Wing in a few years. Hell, I'm getting a new dog in a couple months and I'm between two names, Zetty and Jurco and I'm leaning toward Jurco... I cannot wait for this kid to be up full time with the Wings, however I still believe that another year in the American League is the best thing for his development, and because of that, I'm confident that is where he will end up.

Jesusberg likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pucktividi, it doesn't and shouldn't always come down to who is the better player, sometimes it has to be a more calculated decision. When it comes down to handing a roster spot to a (21 year old) kid that still has another year of waiver exemption (Tomas Jurco), or re-signing a (future hall-of-fame) veteran to a reasonable contract (Daniel Alfredsson), I would pick the second one 95% of the time.

In my opinion there are a number of reasons for doing this. One being point production. In this case, both player will more than likely produce the same number of points, my guess being between 40-50. Secondly, development. I'm a big believer that a player is much better off playing top line minutes in all situations in the minors rather than getting sheltered minutes and no special teams in the pros. Another thing would be confidence. This doesn't apply as much to a player like Jurco as much as Mantha, but confidence can definitely be completely diminished if thrown in to the deep end too early. I'm sure there are even more reasons but I'm going to finish off with team depth. A veteran player like Alfredsson is brought in, while a great young kid like Jurco is buried to increase the overall depth of the team. When the inevitable injuries hit, Jurco / Mantha are great first call ups.

Everyone is well aware of how highly I regard Jurco, he is far and away my favorite prospect and will more than likely be my favorite Red Wing in a few years. Hell, I'm getting a new dog in a couple months and I'm between two names, Zetty and Jurco and I'm leaning toward Jurco... I cannot wait for this kid to be up full time with the Wings, however I still believe that another year in the American League is the best thing for his development, and because of that, I'm confident that is where he will end up.

I think that because people got a glimpse of Jurco last season, and saw some flashes of high-end skill, they missed some of the knocks on him (right now). There are still little things that Jurco is going to have to learn to reach his full level of consistency at the NHL level. I remember seeing Tatar during one of his first call-up games and watching him go offside twice in the span of a few minutes, mostly because he wasn't used to the pace/speed yet. As you mentioned in a previous post, Nyquist and Tatar were able to adjust to the NHL because they were brought in the right way, and there's nothing wrong with doing that with Jurco right now.

All in all, Jurco is not a necessity at this point - but allowing him to mature properly is definitely a necessity. We're going to need that when Hank and Pavs leave, and a guy who's putting up 40-50 when he could put up 60-70 isn't going to help that.

On a similar note, I think that before Mantha comes up, Pulkkinen should be the next call-up behind Jurco... but that's a whole other issue.

Edited by Jesusberg
krsmith17 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I couldn't agree more. I also agree that it should be Jurco, Pulkkinen, then Mantha. Unless Mantha is absolutely destroying the American League, which I highly doubt will happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I couldn't agree more. I also agree that it should be Jurco, Pulkkinen, then Mantha. Unless Mantha is absolutely destroying the American League, which I highly doubt will happen.

I don't think he's going to blow-up the AHL, to be honest. He could very well find himself on the 3rd line throughout the year, given any lapses in consistency.

There's a crazy amount of depth in GR at forward, some Detroit property, some GR signings - 18 forwards total. I understand they're going to have a closer relationship with the Walleye, and more than likely Zengerle, Berschbach and Hirschfeld are going to serve as call-ups in the ECHL... but it's going to be tough for some of those guys to find ice time.

Edited by Jesusberg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It won't happen, but I think the Wings should walk away from Alfie. This team is not a championship contender with Alfie back and you are committing money for not only this season, but likely the next one too. All of this for a 42-year-old coming off back issues that isn't likely to play anywhere near most of the games anyways.

I like Alfie and thought he was good (before the Olympics) last year. I don't like him for another season given the makeup of this roster. It just isn't a necessary move. Then again, neither was bringing back Cleary, Quincey or Monster, so of course Holland will pull the trigger.

Basically I'm absolutely opposed to anything that is going to keep Tomas Jurco in Grand Rapids and Alfie returning is another forward in the numbers game. Play the kids and speed up the transition to becoming relevant again. Signing Alfie for a veteran presence is fine if you are contending. Doesn't make any sense for the Wings now.

Edited by GoWings1905
kipwinger likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/red-wings-ready-to-sign-daniel-alfredsson--don-t-expect-full-season-214714308.html

Lol my favorite quote:

Daniel Alfredsson left the Ottawa Senators for the Detroit Red Wings last summer because of money a burning hatred of Eugene Melnyk his belief that they could bring him his first Stanley Cup championship.

While they only fell 15 wins shy of that goal,

It sums up what a lot of people say. Were Stanley cup contenders we were only 15 wins short!! Lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The scary part is Holland knows Alfredsson can't play 82 games, but seems more then willing to sign him. I wish we would move on, but we won't. #11 and #71 in the starting line-up, baby!

GoWings1905 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The scary part is Holland knows Alfredsson can't play 82 games, but seems more then willing to sign him. I wish we would move on, but we won't. #11 and #71 in the starting line-up, baby!

Your entitled to you opinion, but don't care pair 11 to the former 11, they're not in the same category. Signing Alfie helps this team (No i don't want to tank)

gcom007 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually don’t mind this quote from Holland:

"Certainly, I don't look at Alfie thinking he's going to play 82 games," Holland said. "When you got (Gustav) Nyquist and (Tomas) Tatar and (Tomas) Jurco and (Luke) Glendening and (Riley) Sheahan, if we can get a certain amount of games out of (Alfredsson), we would feel like he would be a real positive addition.

To me, Holland is looking for as much depth as possible, and is certainly OK with Jurco playing 20 + minutes a night and hopefully dominating in GRs at least to start the season. It’s a hard philosophy to argue unless the Wings come stumbling out of the gate and start the season 2-8 or something.

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/it-looks-like-one-more-year-for-daniel-alfredsson

number9, T.Low, krsmith17 and 1 other like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no problem with us signing Daniel Alfredsson.

I don't think we would've made the playoffs without him last year. I think he ran out of gas for awhile after the Olympics, but Kronwall wasn't firing on all cylinders either and he's a good deal younger. It was a long run for the Swedes. If the rest of the team can stay healthier and we can give him some calculated rest now and again this year, and with no Olympics to further muddle things up, I think Alfie stands to have a more impressive year this year, and I say that as someone who thought highly of his contribution last season. He was still an effective player most of the time, he put up points, and provided strong leadership when our big leaders went down.

While it would've been a different story had Dats and Z not been injured, the fact of the matter remains that even at his older age, even given his own injury issues that hampered him throughout the season, even given that he missed 14 games, and even given that he had an extended cold-streak when he was running on empty after the Olympics, he still ended up being our points leader last year while going on to become a locker room leader in the second half that all those kids that exploded pointed to again and again for stepping up when Dats and Z went down.

If we're going to be signing older players, Alfie is the kind we should be signing. When people talk about wanting Ken Holland to stop signing older scrubs, I generally am very much in agreement. But the thing is, Alfredsson never has been and never will be an old scrub. Signing him should never be compared to signing someone like Cleary. It's genuinely irritating to me that anyone would even try to suggest that we're dealing with the same type of player and circumstance here when by any objective measure there's clearly a night and day difference. Alfie isn't as effective as he was ten years ago, most obviously, but he is still an effective player who contributes on the scoresheet and leads, all while providing the kind of veteran presence that you absolutely do want to have around on a team that's getting younger.

Just because Holland made a mistake in signing Dan Cleary again doesn't mean he should make another mistake and not sign Alfie if Alfie decides that he can play.

Again, I have no problem with Alfie coming back, and while I'm certainly not holding my breath, I hope that somehow this ragtag team can pull off a miracle for him. He's a class act and nothing would make me happier next season than seeing him win his first Cup so he can go out on top. Never lose hope, right?

krsmith17, rick zombo and T.Low like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually dont mind this quote from Holland:

To me, Holland is looking for as much depth as possible, and is certainly OK with Jurco playing 20 + minutes a night and hopefully dominating in GRs at least to start the season. Its a hard philosophy to argue unless the Wings come stumbling out of the gate and start the season 2-8 or something.

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/it-looks-like-one-more-year-for-daniel-alfredsson

It's not that hard of a philosophy to argue against. See Gustav Nyquist and Tomas Tatar last season. Jurco doesn't need more time in Grand Rapids just because he can get sent down -- he has already proven to be an effective NHL player. Play your best forwards, especially when the team is in transition and can accelerate the process of developing its youth. Why have a 42-year-old Alfie take a roster spot when you can have Jurco instead? Again, if the Wings are true contenders, then I get the Alfie angle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

win/win for me, we either get aflie who is one of our top scorers or we get more jurco. im fine with either.

Edited by martinezsvsu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll be happy if Alfie comes back. That will prevent Cleary from getting his favorite number 11.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it crazy that some people still actually believe that the best thing for the team and for the player (Jurco) is for him to play with the big club to start next season. It is not. Jurco would benefit in so many ways from playing another year down in the minors. He is still a kid, and could use another partial to full season down with the Griffs, getting top line minutes, top power play time, working out the kinks in his game, because believe it or not there definitely still are some kinks in his game. Even if we weren't going to re-sign Alfie for whatever reason, I would still want Jurco down in Grand Rapids to at least start the season.

Signed, Jurco's biggest fan.

Jesusberg and martinezsvsu like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Expected it no other team is bringing their exact same roster back. Some of the top guys are going into the season with an identical one but nobody - except the Wings - is going into it with the exact same roster. It really takes balls and some superb job security to do that., when the team has barely made the playoffs.

I just don't understand what Alfie is trying to do he wants a cup fine, but he won't unfortunately win one here and most contenders are set now, tough break.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, it was definitely a huge mistake to bring back the same team from last season... I mean we only made the playoffs, despite what may have been the biggest rash of injuries to key players that any team has ever had to endure in a single season... I would wager a rather large amount of money that the Detroit Red Wings will finish with more points (94+), and as a higher seed (7th or higher) than last season. I'd even go as far as to say that I believe they will finish with more than 110 points this season and quite possibly challenge for the division...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it crazy that some people still actually believe that the best thing for the team and for the player (Jurco) is for him to play with the big club to start next season. It is not. Jurco would benefit in so many ways from playing another year down in the minors. He is still a kid, and could use another partial to full season down with the Griffs, getting top line minutes, top power play time, working out the kinks in his game, because believe it or not there definitely still are some kinks in his game. Even if we weren't going to re-sign Alfie for whatever reason, I would still want Jurco down in Grand Rapids to at least start the season.

Signed, Jurco's biggest fan.

Bingo. I think some people forget that Jurco is only 21. The kid showed flashes of brilliance, but also looked lost in the shuffle at times. It's not a fair comparison, but when you look at Gus or Tatar then look at Jurco, they're well ahead of him right now. They weren't ready at that stage in their careers, and I truly believe going back down to GR helped both of those guys tremendously (though, I am among the group that thought they should have started as regulars last season).

This team will face injuries, and there's a very real chance that Jurco will find himself in the line-up throughout the season. It's easy to compare this situation to last season's, when Nyquist was more than ready, but I don't believe Jurco is now where Nyquist was last season. Starting the season in the AHL is not going to hinder his overall development, IMO. If anything, I think it's going to put a chip on his shoulder and make him want it even more.

Tatar had several issues starting the season - and even getting call-ups before last season. Many (including myself) thought he was in Babcock's dog house, and being treated unfairly. Signing his 3-year deal just showed that the kids can play, and when they prove it, they will be rewarded.

Edited by Jesusberg
krsmith17 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Expected it no other team is bringing their exact same roster back. Some of the top guys are going into the season with an identical one but nobody - except the Wings - is going into it with the exact same roster. It really takes balls and some superb job security to do that., when the team has barely made the playoffs.

I just don't understand what Alfie is trying to do he wants a cup fine, but he won't unfortunately win one here and most contenders are set now, tough break.

Darn it! No shiny new toys???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see why everyone's so eager to compare Jurco to Tatar and Nyquist and not to Sheahan. Oh wait, yeah I do. Because it's convenient for their argument. Sheahan wasn't ready either. Looked lost in his call ups. Didn't really fit. Then he comes up and earns a spot because he wants it. Just like you're supposed to do.

To me it comes down to this: I think we'd be a better team with some guys who can score in and around the crease. We currently don't really have any (maybe Franzen). I think we'd be harder to play against. And I think that even if Jurco scored 15 fewer points than Alfie, we'd still be a better team if it gave us more than one offensive look.

As it stands we're a team full of guys who can only score from the perimeter...again. And teams have figured out how to beat us in the playoffs. I know it makes everybody feel better to blame injuries, but the fact is that our perimeter game hasn't worked in about 5 years. Alfie doesn't help that. Jurco would.

GoWings1905 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

is it possible for them to fit danny d and alfie under the cap

Probably. Alf will just sign a bonus heavy contract that will carry over to next season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now