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#61 Echolalia

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 05:31 PM

I just read an article about how Boston has too many defensmen. I wonder if we could move a forward or two for a defender. Other than being in the same division, this trade has potential written all over it.

#62 Dabura

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 06:24 PM

I just read an article about how Boston has too many defensmen. I wonder if we could move a forward or two for a defender. Other than being in the same division, this trade has potential written all over it.

 

My impression is it's Boychuck or McQuaid, probably the former. Neither is anything special, but Boychuck might be a good fit.


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#63 krsmith17

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:47 AM

The Detroit Red Wings have long had the philosophy that prospects need to be "ripe" before they make the jump to the National Hockey League. That means after getting drafted, our prospects spend around 3-5 years between junior or overseas and the AHL before finally getting their shot in the NHL. This has proven to be successful for many years now and I don't see them drastically changing that system any time soon.

 

I don't see there being much of a chance that Mantha makes the big club this season, despite how highly fans, media and management regard him, nor do I think Jurco will start the season in the NHL. I'm actually a fan of the Red Wing way, of over ripening players, and I like the idea of having a farm oozing with talent. Depth is probably the biggest key to a teams success in the league today, and because of our drafting, development and ripening methods, we are definitely stacked with depth in the minors.

 

There is a reason players like Nyquist and Tatar were able to jump into the NHL with little to no growing pains, while highly regarded players drafted by other teams get thrown in the fire too early and flame out due to not being ready, and having their confidence destroyed. I'm just as excited for all these kids as anyone but I think it would be a huge mistake to throw them in the best league in the world before they're fully ready, both physically and mentally. In my opinion, on the back end, Marchenko could be ready for full time duty in the NHL, other than that I think Backman, Ouellet, Sproul and Jensen can all use more seasoning in the AHL. Up front, Jurco is the closest to being ready, but could still use another season down in the minors, along with Pulkkinen, Mantha, Athanasiou, etc.

 

Anyway, point being, I don't think there is any harm in resigning a future hall-of-famer, veteran like Alfredsson, allowing all of our forward prospects another season in Grand Rapids to round out there game. Having these guys getting top line minutes and loads of PP time down in Grand Rapids, to me is a lot more beneficial than getting 3rd line minutes and no PP time up in Detroit.

 

 

As for our RFA's that are not waiver exempt, I don't think there is any chance whatsoever that any team picks up Nestrasil, with a slim chance a team takes a chance on Ferraro, although that may be even less likely now with uncle Tony now as the assistant coach. My only fear is that we lose Callahan. The kid is coming off a career year with the Griffins, is an absolute warrior and would be a great addition to any teams 4th line. I hope Holland doesn't give any team the chance to claim him. No he's not going to put up a lot of points but I think he would be a huge loss...



#64 kipwinger

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:13 AM

The Detroit Red Wings have long had the philosophy that prospects need to be "ripe" before they make the jump to the National Hockey League. That means after getting drafted, our prospects spend around 3-5 years between junior or overseas and the AHL before finally getting their shot in the NHL. This has proven to be successful for many years now and I don't see them drastically changing that system any time soon.

 

I don't see there being much of a chance that Mantha makes the big club this season, despite how highly fans, media and management regard him, nor do I think Jurco will start the season in the NHL. I'm actually a fan of the Red Wing way, of over ripening players, and I like the idea of having a farm oozing with talent. Depth is probably the biggest key to a teams success in the league today, and because of our drafting, development and ripening methods, we are definitely stacked with depth in the minors.

 

There is a reason players like Nyquist and Tatar were able to jump into the NHL with little to no growing pains, while highly regarded players drafted by other teams get thrown in the fire too early and flame out due to not being ready, and having their confidence destroyed. I'm just as excited for all these kids as anyone but I think it would be a huge mistake to throw them in the best league in the world before they're fully ready, both physically and mentally. In my opinion, on the back end, Marchenko could be ready for full time duty in the NHL, other than that I think Backman, Ouellet, Sproul and Jensen can all use more seasoning in the AHL. Up front, Jurco is the closest to being ready, but could still use another season down in the minors, along with Pulkkinen, Mantha, Athanasiou, etc.

 

Anyway, point being, I don't think there is any harm in resigning a future hall-of-famer, veteran like Alfredsson, allowing all of our forward prospects another season in Grand Rapids to round out there game. Having these guys getting top line minutes and loads of PP time down in Grand Rapids, to me is a lot more beneficial than getting 3rd line minutes and no PP time up in Detroit.

 

 

As for our RFA's that are not waiver exempt, I don't think there is any chance whatsoever that any team picks up Nestrasil, with a slim chance a team takes a chance on Ferraro, although that may be even less likely now with uncle Tony now as the assistant coach. My only fear is that we lose Callahan. The kid is coming off a career year with the Griffins, is an absolute warrior and would be a great addition to any teams 4th line. I hope Holland doesn't give any team the chance to claim him. No he's not going to put up a lot of points but I think he would be a huge loss...

 

I don't understand why Callahan doesn't just become the new Holmstrom?  He's clearly tough as hell, has a scoring touch around the crease, and isn't afraid to stand in front of slap shots.  Plus, he's actually good defensively and on special teams.

 

In another dimension (one where the Wings don't have Andersson or Cleary or Glendening on the opening night roster) I'd pencil this kid in as my fourth line winger, penalty killer, and net front on my 2nd PP unit. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#65 Echolalia

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:52 AM

 
I don't understand why Callahan doesn't just become the new Holmstrom?  He's clearly tough as hell, has a scoring touch around the crease, and isn't afraid to stand in front of slap shots.  Plus, he's actually good defensively and on special teams.
 
In another dimension (one where the Wings don't have Andersson or Cleary or Glendening on the opening night roster) I'd pencil this kid in as my fourth line winger, penalty killer, and net front on my 2nd PP unit. 

I like this. I think I mentioned a while back in another thread that we don't have any players that are consistently fighting for the tough areas in front of the net. Cleary used to be good at it, Abdelkader kinda, but his role on the team is constantly shifting. Jurco and Sheahan maybe as they continue to develop. Franzen? Lol. There's a niche waiting to be occupied, and as you mentioned, Callahan has thrived in the AHL with all the necessary tools.

#66 kipwinger

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:57 AM

I like this. I think I mentioned a while back in another thread that we don't have any players that are consistently fighting for the tough areas in front of the net. Cleary used to be good at it, Abdelkader kinda, but his role on the team is constantly shifting. Jurco and Sheahan maybe as they continue to develop. Franzen? Lol. There's a niche waiting to be occupied, and as you mentioned, Callahan has thrived in the AHL with all the necessary tools.

 

I agree.  And doesn't he just seem like a guy that Babcock would like?  He's gritty, hardworking, defensively responsible AND can score goals now and again?  I imagine Babs says those words to himself over and over in the mirror when trying to get aroused. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#67 Rivalred

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 10:18 AM

DRW are loyal to their word, if he is ready and wants to come back, Wings will make a spot for him; you all know it and just accept it
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#68 Dabura

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 10:58 AM

I suggested a first line of Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Callahan in that other thread. That's a running joke I have where if someone's right-handed I pencil him in on the first line with Z and D - but, yeah, the thinking is that Callahan's about as qualified as anyone in our system to be The Next #96, at least on one of the PP units. Good call, kip. (Can you imagine a fourth line of Abdelkader-Helm-Callahan? The Pain in the Ass Line.)


Edited by Dabura, 23 July 2014 - 10:59 AM.

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#69 UpstateNYRedWingsFan

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 11:36 AM

I like this. I think I mentioned a while back in another thread that we don't have any players that are consistently fighting for the tough areas in front of the net. Cleary used to be good at it, Abdelkader kinda, but his role on the team is constantly shifting. Jurco and Sheahan maybe as they continue to develop. Franzen? Lol. There's a niche waiting to be occupied, and as you mentioned, Callahan has thrived in the AHL with all the necessary tools.

 

Abdelkader can't stay on his feet. His hands aren't the best but I think his biggest problem is falling down or losing balance especially when in front of the net.



#70 Son of a Wing

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 12:09 PM

The Detroit Red Wings have long had the philosophy that prospects need to be "ripe" before they make the jump to the National Hockey League. That means after getting drafted, our prospects spend around 3-5 years between junior or overseas and the AHL before finally getting their shot in the NHL. This has proven to be successful for many years now and I don't see them drastically changing that system any time soon.

 

I don't see there being much of a chance that Mantha makes the big club this season, despite how highly fans, media and management regard him, nor do I think Jurco will start the season in the NHL. I'm actually a fan of the Red Wing way, of over ripening players, and I like the idea of having a farm oozing with talent. Depth is probably the biggest key to a teams success in the league today, and because of our drafting, development and ripening methods, we are definitely stacked with depth in the minors.

 

There is a reason players like Nyquist and Tatar were able to jump into the NHL with little to no growing pains, while highly regarded players drafted by other teams get thrown in the fire too early and flame out due to not being ready, and having their confidence destroyed. I'm just as excited for all these kids as anyone but I think it would be a huge mistake to throw them in the best league in the world before they're fully ready, both physically and mentally. In my opinion, on the back end, Marchenko could be ready for full time duty in the NHL, other than that I think Backman, Ouellet, Sproul and Jensen can all use more seasoning in the AHL. Up front, Jurco is the closest to being ready, but could still use another season down in the minors, along with Pulkkinen, Mantha, Athanasiou, etc.

 

Anyway, point being, I don't think there is any harm in resigning a future hall-of-famer, veteran like Alfredsson, allowing all of our forward prospects another season in Grand Rapids to round out there game. Having these guys getting top line minutes and loads of PP time down in Grand Rapids, to me is a lot more beneficial than getting 3rd line minutes and no PP time up in Detroit.

 

 

As for our RFA's that are not waiver exempt, I don't think there is any chance whatsoever that any team picks up Nestrasil, with a slim chance a team takes a chance on Ferraro, although that may be even less likely now with uncle Tony now as the assistant coach. My only fear is that we lose Callahan. The kid is coming off a career year with the Griffins, is an absolute warrior and would be a great addition to any teams 4th line. I hope Holland doesn't give any team the chance to claim him. No he's not going to put up a lot of points but I think he would be a huge loss...

 

Couldn't agree more....


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#71 Nightfall

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:15 PM

The Detroit Red Wings have long had the philosophy that prospects need to be "ripe" before they make the jump to the National Hockey League. That means after getting drafted, our prospects spend around 3-5 years between junior or overseas and the AHL before finally getting their shot in the NHL. This has proven to be successful for many years now and I don't see them drastically changing that system any time soon.

 

I don't see there being much of a chance that Mantha makes the big club this season, despite how highly fans, media and management regard him, nor do I think Jurco will start the season in the NHL. I'm actually a fan of the Red Wing way, of over ripening players, and I like the idea of having a farm oozing with talent. Depth is probably the biggest key to a teams success in the league today, and because of our drafting, development and ripening methods, we are definitely stacked with depth in the minors.

 

There is a reason players like Nyquist and Tatar were able to jump into the NHL with little to no growing pains, while highly regarded players drafted by other teams get thrown in the fire too early and flame out due to not being ready, and having their confidence destroyed. I'm just as excited for all these kids as anyone but I think it would be a huge mistake to throw them in the best league in the world before they're fully ready, both physically and mentally. In my opinion, on the back end, Marchenko could be ready for full time duty in the NHL, other than that I think Backman, Ouellet, Sproul and Jensen can all use more seasoning in the AHL. Up front, Jurco is the closest to being ready, but could still use another season down in the minors, along with Pulkkinen, Mantha, Athanasiou, etc.

 

Anyway, point being, I don't think there is any harm in resigning a future hall-of-famer, veteran like Alfredsson, allowing all of our forward prospects another season in Grand Rapids to round out there game. Having these guys getting top line minutes and loads of PP time down in Grand Rapids, to me is a lot more beneficial than getting 3rd line minutes and no PP time up in Detroit.

 

 

As for our RFA's that are not waiver exempt, I don't think there is any chance whatsoever that any team picks up Nestrasil, with a slim chance a team takes a chance on Ferraro, although that may be even less likely now with uncle Tony now as the assistant coach. My only fear is that we lose Callahan. The kid is coming off a career year with the Griffins, is an absolute warrior and would be a great addition to any teams 4th line. I hope Holland doesn't give any team the chance to claim him. No he's not going to put up a lot of points but I think he would be a huge loss...

 

Best post I have read today.  Thanks!


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#72 number9

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 08:28 PM

The Detroit Red Wings have long had the philosophy that prospects need to be "ripe" before they make the jump to the National Hockey League. That means after getting drafted, our prospects spend around 3-5 years between junior or overseas and the AHL before finally getting their shot in the NHL. This has proven to be successful for many years now and I don't see them drastically changing that system any time soon.

 

I don't see there being much of a chance that Mantha makes the big club this season, despite how highly fans, media and management regard him, nor do I think Jurco will start the season in the NHL. I'm actually a fan of the Red Wing way, of over ripening players, and I like the idea of having a farm oozing with talent. Depth is probably the biggest key to a teams success in the league today, and because of our drafting, development and ripening methods, we are definitely stacked with depth in the minors.

 

There is a reason players like Nyquist and Tatar were able to jump into the NHL with little to no growing pains, while highly regarded players drafted by other teams get thrown in the fire too early and flame out due to not being ready, and having their confidence destroyed. I'm just as excited for all these kids as anyone but I think it would be a huge mistake to throw them in the best league in the world before they're fully ready, both physically and mentally. In my opinion, on the back end, Marchenko could be ready for full time duty in the NHL, other than that I think Backman, Ouellet, Sproul and Jensen can all use more seasoning in the AHL. Up front, Jurco is the closest to being ready, but could still use another season down in the minors, along with Pulkkinen, Mantha, Athanasiou, etc.

 

Anyway, point being, I don't think there is any harm in resigning a future hall-of-famer, veteran like Alfredsson, allowing all of our forward prospects another season in Grand Rapids to round out there game. Having these guys getting top line minutes and loads of PP time down in Grand Rapids, to me is a lot more beneficial than getting 3rd line minutes and no PP time up in Detroit.

 

 

As for our RFA's that are not waiver exempt, I don't think there is any chance whatsoever that any team picks up Nestrasil, with a slim chance a team takes a chance on Ferraro, although that may be even less likely now with uncle Tony now as the assistant coach. My only fear is that we lose Callahan. The kid is coming off a career year with the Griffins, is an absolute warrior and would be a great addition to any teams 4th line. I hope Holland doesn't give any team the chance to claim him. No he's not going to put up a lot of points but I think he would be a huge loss...

 

 

A rational response? DISLIKE



#73 pucktividi

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 10:16 PM

The Detroit Red Wings have long had the philosophy that prospects need to be "ripe" before they make the jump to the National Hockey League. That means after getting drafted, our prospects spend around 3-5 years between junior or overseas and the AHL before finally getting their shot in the NHL. This has proven to be successful for many years now and I don't see them drastically changing that system any time soon.

 

 

That philosophy made sense when we arguably had better veteran players in Detroit.Last couple of seasons,not so much. We had an opportunity to watch a lot of kids from Grand Rapids due to injuries and surprisingly none of them underperformed.Yes,reasonably they had rookie mistakes,but not more bone head plays than proven veterans like Cleary,Bert or Quincey.



#74 number9

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 10:40 PM

That philosophy made sense when we arguably had better veteran players in Detroit.Last couple of seasons,not so much. We had an opportunity to watch a lot of kids from Grand Rapids due to injuries and surprisingly none of them underperformed.Yes,reasonably they had rookie mistakes,but not more bone head plays than proven veterans like Cleary,Bert or Quincey.

 

Cleary, Bert. Q > Jurco, Tatar, Nyquist



#75 DeGraa55

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 01:02 AM

 
Cleary, Bert. Q > Jurco, Tatar, Nyquist


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#76 krsmith17

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 06:30 AM

Pucktividi, it doesn't and shouldn't always come down to who is the better player, sometimes it has to be a more calculated decision. When it comes down to handing a roster spot to a (21 year old) kid that still has another year of waiver exemption (Tomas Jurco), or re-signing a (future hall-of-fame) veteran to a reasonable contract (Daniel Alfredsson), I would pick the second one 95% of the time.

 

In my opinion there are a number of reasons for doing this. One being point production. In this case, both player will more than likely produce the same number of points, my guess being between 40-50. Secondly, development. I'm a big believer that a player is much better off playing top line minutes in all situations in the minors rather than getting sheltered minutes and no special teams in the pros. Another thing would be confidence. This doesn't apply as much to a player like Jurco as much as Mantha, but confidence can definitely be completely diminished if thrown in to the deep end too early. I'm sure there are even more reasons but I'm going to finish off with team depth. A veteran player like Alfredsson is brought in, while a great young kid like Jurco is buried to increase the overall depth of the team. When the inevitable injuries hit, Jurco / Mantha are great first call ups.

 

Everyone is well aware of how highly I regard Jurco, he is far and away my favorite prospect and will more than likely be my favorite Red Wing in a few years. Hell, I'm getting a new dog in a couple months and I'm between two names, Zetty and Jurco and I'm leaning toward Jurco... I cannot wait for this kid to be up full time with the Wings, however I still believe that another year in the American League is the best thing for his development, and because of that, I'm confident that is where he will end up.



#77 number9

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:51 AM

Ken holland is that you?

 

No, Ken is hitting the links - AGAIN - today



#78 Jesusberg

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 12:47 PM

Pucktividi, it doesn't and shouldn't always come down to who is the better player, sometimes it has to be a more calculated decision. When it comes down to handing a roster spot to a (21 year old) kid that still has another year of waiver exemption (Tomas Jurco), or re-signing a (future hall-of-fame) veteran to a reasonable contract (Daniel Alfredsson), I would pick the second one 95% of the time.

 

In my opinion there are a number of reasons for doing this. One being point production. In this case, both player will more than likely produce the same number of points, my guess being between 40-50. Secondly, development. I'm a big believer that a player is much better off playing top line minutes in all situations in the minors rather than getting sheltered minutes and no special teams in the pros. Another thing would be confidence. This doesn't apply as much to a player like Jurco as much as Mantha, but confidence can definitely be completely diminished if thrown in to the deep end too early. I'm sure there are even more reasons but I'm going to finish off with team depth. A veteran player like Alfredsson is brought in, while a great young kid like Jurco is buried to increase the overall depth of the team. When the inevitable injuries hit, Jurco / Mantha are great first call ups.

 

Everyone is well aware of how highly I regard Jurco, he is far and away my favorite prospect and will more than likely be my favorite Red Wing in a few years. Hell, I'm getting a new dog in a couple months and I'm between two names, Zetty and Jurco and I'm leaning toward Jurco... I cannot wait for this kid to be up full time with the Wings, however I still believe that another year in the American League is the best thing for his development, and because of that, I'm confident that is where he will end up.

 

I think that because people got a glimpse of Jurco last season, and saw some flashes of high-end skill, they missed some of the knocks on him (right now). There are still little things that Jurco is going to have to learn to reach his full level of consistency at the NHL level. I remember seeing Tatar during one of his first call-up games and watching him go offside twice in the span of a few minutes, mostly because he wasn't used to the pace/speed yet. As you mentioned in a previous post, Nyquist and Tatar were able to adjust to the NHL because they were brought in the right way, and there's nothing wrong with doing that with Jurco right now.

All in all, Jurco is not a necessity at this point - but allowing him to mature properly is definitely a necessity. We're going to need that when Hank and Pavs leave, and a guy who's putting up 40-50 when he could put up 60-70 isn't going to help that.

 

On a similar note, I think that before Mantha comes up, Pulkkinen should be the next call-up behind Jurco... but that's a whole other issue.


Edited by Jesusberg, 24 July 2014 - 12:47 PM.


#79 krsmith17

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 12:56 PM

I couldn't agree more. I also agree that it should be Jurco, Pulkkinen, then Mantha. Unless Mantha is absolutely destroying the American League, which I highly doubt will happen.

#80 Jesusberg

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 01:40 PM

I couldn't agree more. I also agree that it should be Jurco, Pulkkinen, then Mantha. Unless Mantha is absolutely destroying the American League, which I highly doubt will happen.

 

I don't think he's going to blow-up the AHL, to be honest. He could very well find himself on the 3rd line throughout the year, given any lapses in consistency.

 

There's a crazy amount of depth in GR at forward, some Detroit property, some GR signings - 18 forwards total. I understand they're going to have a closer relationship with the Walleye, and more than likely Zengerle, Berschbach and Hirschfeld are going to serve as call-ups in the ECHL... but it's going to be tough for some of those guys to find ice time. 


Edited by Jesusberg, 24 July 2014 - 01:42 PM.






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