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Learn2LuvIt

Datsyuk or Fedorov?

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So say, in the future, they need to select 5 HOFers, and it comes to this generation. The decade after the first lockout. Who would be the top forwards of this era?

Crosby

Ovechkin

Datsyuk

Stamkos

Malkin

St. Louis

Toews

Besides Ovechkin and Crosby, those other four can be argued either way as to is better I think.

Those players were just off the top of my head, so please add anyone I forgot.

Malkin is definitely going to be rated higher. A lot more important trophies and postseason All Star teams than Datsyuk. In 2009, he had arguably the greatest playoff any forward not named Gretzky or Lemieux has ever had.

Stamkos and Toews at their current rate will be rated ahead of Datsyuk. Once again, more individual offensive trophies (sorry Selke) and postseason All Star teams.

St. Louis has a Hart trophy, and has been a tremendous player ever since he left Calgary. He and Datsyuk could be rated similarly when it's all said and done with.

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Malkin is definitely going to be rated higher. A lot more important trophies and postseason All Star teams than Datsyuk. In 2009, he had arguably the greatest playoff any forward not named Gretzky or Lemieux has ever had.

Stamkos and Toews at their current rate will be rated ahead of Datsyuk. Once again, more individual offensive trophies (sorry Selke) and postseason All Star teams.

St. Louis has a Hart trophy, and has been a tremendous player ever since he left Calgary. He and Datsyuk could be rated similarly when it's all said and done with.

But can they do magic?

Hockeymom1960 likes this

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Euro_Twins....if you are purely looking at stats, I don't think Datsyuk has a chance at the Hall at all at this point. 804 points in 824 is good enough? Don't think so. Lindros has 865 points in 760 games and has a Hart and Pearson...he's not in.

My personal starting discussion point used to be 1,000 points AND over 1 ppg. Anything less than that would be very difficult, but there would be exceptions (e.g. several high end trophies)

GMR has nailed it. If that is your criteria, then only a handful of players drafted during the Bettman era will make the HOF. One only has to look at the list of total NHL points, I think Thornton is the highest ranked Bettman era player and he was something like 37th last time I checked. The list is dominated by guys drafted in the 70s and 80s. Under your criteria, all the accumulators who played in the 80s will get in ahead of the superstars of the 21st century, which is just wrong.

Plus Pav's points can't be looked at in isolation, the guy won 3 consecutive Selke's whilst averaging 92 points and winning a cup. He's a top-10 all time defensive forward. Throw in his jaw dropping playstyle and he is just a unique player.

krsmith17 and number9 like this

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Dats also has 532 assists already. He could easily be over 600-650 when he retires and is just shy of Beijing a ppg player his entire career (804 points in 824 games) that's good enough for me, without even taking into consideration his two way play. That just puts him over the top.

Right. Also another comparison between the two, Dats is only 22 career Assists behind Fedorov. When Pavs career is over, I don't think there's much of a debate if he's a HOF player.

They're different types of players. Fedorov was more of a Russian style power forward (a Russian power forward is different then a North America power forward), Datsyuk, as mentioned is more like Larionov, but takes more shots and can take and give out a hit.

Fedorov.

Feds carried this team in a bump and grind decade where Dats would have been shut down.

I don't know about that. Prior to 2006-07 Datsyuk got pushed around. He got into the weight room put on muscle, and he went to the next level. I think he would have been fine in the 1990's. Larionov didn't have much trouble in a rougher era.

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I think something that really works in Pav's favor regarding the HOF is the idea that most people have regarded him as at least a top-5 player in the league for the better half of a decade now. For 2-3 years, a lot of people considered him the best player in the game.

I think that reputation will give him a big push.

Kira and number9 like this

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I think something that really works in Pav's favor regarding the HOF is the idea that most people have regarded him as at least a top-5 player in the league for the better half of a decade now. For 2-3 years, a lot of people considered him the best player in the game.

I think that reputation will give him a big push.

Best two-way player. Outside of this forum, not many people have said he's a better player than Crosby or Malkin, or should be rated higher.

Seems like people now think Tayes is the best two-way player in the game.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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Best two-way player. Outside of this forum, not many people have said he's a better player than Crosby or Malkin, or should be rated higher.

Seems like people now think Tayes is the best two-way player in the game.

Crosby and makin are still better than toews IMO. The thing that he is better is in leadership.

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Both of them should be in the Hall. Fedorov started his career earlier and had better seasons, so it's hard to argue Datsyuk is the better player right now. Fedorov really fell off after leaving Detroit though, so if Datsyuk keeps up a better pace through the end of his career an argument might be made then.

Bowman did that to f with him not because he wasn't playing defense.

Who told you that, Bowman?

To Feds credit he did very well playing defense, and i believe the Caps experimented with him at D late in his career when they didn't have enough Dmen on the roster.

hooon likes this

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DD,

Just looked into it. Bowman stated in an interview that Feds was complaining about his ice time and that he told him only way he was getting more is if he played defense. Sergei obliged. Nothing to do with screwing with him or his D abilities.

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Best two-way player. Outside of this forum, not many people have said he's a better player than Crosby or Malkin, or should be rated higher.

Seems like people now think Tayes is the best two-way player in the game.

Toews has only had 1 elite year defensively (which was in a shortened season) and the rest were just good to above average. Last year was a "down year" defensively for him, at least statistically speaking. If the consensus is that he's the best 2-way guy (that is a popular opinion) it is based more on Canadian media hype than anything else. Kopitar, Bergeron, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Hossa... just to name a few, are all at least as good defensively and many of them are better offensively. Not to slight Toews or anything, but I reject the idea that he (or anyone else right now) is a clear cut best two-way player.

What's amazing about Datsyuk is when he was at his defensive peak, he was not only winning Selkes repeatedly, but he was putting up 97 points. Toews has only broken 70 points one time in his career (and it was 5 years ago) and has never broken 80.

Back on topic: I take Datsyuk for consistency. No question Feds peak was considerably higher, and he had the potential to be one of the best in the game all time, but he had attitude problems and just took nights (and weeks and months sometimes) off. No one has ever, EVER accused Datsyuk of having a bad attitude. Ok maybe Cherry has, but that doesn't count.

Edited by hooon

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Best two-way player. Outside of this forum, not many people have said he's a better player than Crosby or Malkin, or should be rated higher.

Seems like people now think Tayes is the best two-way player in the game.

Most complete player. I feel like I've heard it said he's the most rounded player for a few years now. Whether that translates into being "better" than Malkin and Crosby and their offensive numbers is obviously debatable.

Crosby and makin are still better than toews IMO. The thing that he is better is in leadership.

Toews is a better two way player than them. Is that even in question? I don't recall Malkin and Crosby being highly regarded for their defensive game. Or have I been under a rock too long?

On topic though I don't have the freshest memories of Fedorov. I was pretty young. I think Datsyuk gets in the hall of fame though.

Edited by Wheelchairsuperhero

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I saw both play, and regardless of the stats, I can always expect to be wowed by something Pavel will do on the ice. Be it a deke, a pass, a hit avoided, a steal, something. Not so much for Fedorov. He might score 4 points, but they will be somewhat boring, just a guy who is stronger, shoots harder, and skates faster overcoming the inferior competition. Kind of like watching a adult play with kids, almost. :)

Kira likes this

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I saw both play, and regardless of the stats, I can always expect to be wowed by something Pavel will do on the ice. Be it a deke, a pass, a hit avoided, a steal, something. Not so much for Fedorov. He might score 4 points, but they will be somewhat boring, just a guy who is stronger, shoots harder, and skates faster overcoming the inferior competition. Kind of like watching a adult play with kids, almost. :)

Yzerman, Fedorov, and Zetterberg all did/do everything perfectly, text book. Datsyuk writes his own book.

Kira and wings4thecup06 like this

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Yzerman, Fedorov, and Zetterberg all did/do everything perfectly, text book. Datsyuk writes his own book.

From watching the 97 playoffs though, every time Fedorov is on the ice, you can tell there's potential for him to wreak havoc. His wheels are enough for you to sit up and take notice.

Not having witnessed Stevie in his prime, I can't make a fair comparison. But I agree about Datsyuk. Just every time he's out there, you wonder 'what's he going to do next'. Guy is arguably and has been the most exciting player in the league over the last decade.

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I'm just old enough to have watched both players for the entirety of their careers (probably missed some of the really early Fedorov stuff). I think Fedorov was a special athlete, while Datsyuk is a special intellect/talent. But as differently as I think about those two guys, the end result for both of them was an immensely productive player who happened to be one of the best defensive players in the game - but maybe could have put up even higher offensive numbers if they treated the game the way an Ovechkin or Gaborik does.

In terms of Hall credentials, I think the two of them may end up being almost equal. Datsyuk's later years will end up being more productive, which balances out the fact that he wasn't as dynamic at his best as Fedorov was around 94/95. But it's telling that they could end up with somewhat equal track records, and Fedorov won 3 Cups as an elite player, while Datsyuk won us 1.5 (he was basically a 4th liner on that '02 team), and yet the people on this board would automatically retire #13, but largely take a pass on the #91.

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Say what you will, but there is an intangible here. It's called attitude. One has an attitude that is a little hard to work with. One has an attitude that you love to see. I'll let you figure out which is which. Some might think that means next to nothing, but you'd be surprised.

HHOF? One, maybe. One, I should think so. Again, I'll let you figure out which is which.

wings4thecup06 likes this

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I believe both will be in the hall. As the better player that's a different question. Fedorov all day every day. If he came to play everyday. Dats is awesome no question. But he can't take over and score like Feds. Both play great d but Feds actually played on a d line.

Internet.Unknown likes this

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