Do we need a trade to get our offence going ?

[rick zombo 3,739]

If I was Ken Holland I'd call her office right now and ask "what the f*** Helene"? Why would you speculate about a players' trade value, and fuel subsequent rumors, while he's playing the best hockey of anyone on the team?

I've always thought Helene St. James was stupid. But this is seriously next level stupidity. It's like if stupidity went super saiyan.

Helene St James? Stupid. No way. I can prove it. Check out this awesome article she just wrote about how great Quincey is:

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2015/01/05/detroit-red-wings-kyle-quincey/21311315/

See? That’s hard-nosed, gritty, cut through the crap journalism at it’s finest.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I'd prefer to keep all of our assets this season and flip a bunch of them to move up at the draft. Dylan Strome maybe? I've seen some mock drafts picking him as low as 10.

Thats actually a great idea, I would try hard to get Carolinas one could be easily a top 5 pick and I would love Hanifin in the Winged Wheel. Skates almost as smooth as Niedermeyer, big him and Dekeyser would make an awesome first pairing in a few years.

The only problem I see: every expert is saying how deep this draft is so the prices will continue to go up and Carolina might hold on to that pick

[Andy Pred 48 337]

With GR calling up 2 D and 1 fwd when no players are reported as being injured are we about to see Kenny pull off a trade ? Seems strange unless anyone knows what's going on.

[jimmyemeryhunter 2,747]

With GR calling up 2 D and 1 fwd when no players are reported as being injured are we about to see Kenny pull off a trade ? Seems strange unless anyone knows what's going on.

someone's probably injured, or questionable, or something. Edited January 6, 2015 by jimmyemeryhunter

[krsmith17 7,191]

I like Ouellet and I'm not saying we should trade him but with the abundance of defense prospects that should be NHL ready in the next couple seasons, and him garnering the most interest of the group, would people be open to trading him in a package for a top 4 right handed defenseman? What kind of defenseman do people think a package of Ouellet, Kindl, Andersson and our first could get in return? Ouellet is a top prospect and should be playing in the NHL, Kindl is a former first rounder, and in another system could become a good depth defenseman, Andersson could provide center depth and penalty killing. I know it's not an overly great package but I think it's better than some here believe it is. Just curious what people think we could get in return for something like that...

[kipwinger 8,524]

Helene St James? Stupid. No way. I can prove it. Check out this awesome article she just wrote about how great Quincey is:

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2015/01/05/detroit-red-wings-kyle-quincey/21311315/

See? That’s hard-nosed, gritty, cut through the crap journalism at it’s finest.

And yet, despite praising him for 2/3 of an article, she didn't inexplicably start speculating on his trade value for the last third. Weird.

[rick zombo 3,739]

I like Ouellet and I'm not saying we should trade him but with the abundance of defense prospects that should be NHL ready in the next couple seasons, and him garnering the most interest of the group, would people be open to trading him in a package for a top 4 right handed defenseman? What kind of defenseman do people think a package of Ouellet, Kindl, Andersson and our first could get in return? Ouellet is a top prospect and should be playing in the NHL, Kindl is a former first rounder, and in another system could become a good depth defenseman, Andersson could provide center depth and penalty killing. I know it's not an overly great package but I think it's better than some here believe it is. Just curious what people think we could get in return for something like that...

Well, if the Penguins' late 1st rounder + Colonel Klink can get them Perron, I'd like to think the Wings' higher 1st rounder + Ouellet + Kindl + Andersson could get them a legit top four blueliner. Problem is, that package is good enough to land the type of D-man that most teams won't want to part with.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Well, if the Penguins' late 1st rounder + Colonel Klink can get them Perron, I'd like to think the Wings' higher 1st rounder + Ouellet + Kindl + Andersson could get them a legit top four blueliner. Problem is, that package is good enough to land the type of D-man that most teams won't want to part with.

So swap Ouellet with Smith. First, it downgrades the package enough to get you the types of guys on the market. Secondly, you get to keep Ouellet, who is better in every way that Smith. Win-win.

[rick zombo 3,739]

So swap Ouellet with Smith. First, it downgrades the package enough to get you the types of guys on the market. Secondly, you get to keep Ouellet, who is better in every way that Smith. Win-win.

For sure. Or downgrade that pick to a 2nd rounder.

I was just spit-balling based on krsmith17's trade package. He asked, I speculated.

[kipwinger 8,524]

For sure. Or downgrade that pick to a 2nd rounder.

I was just spit-balling based on krsmith17's trade package. He asked, I speculated.

I know. I'm basically just baiting him because I know how much he loves Smith. Sorry to involve you in my Machiavellian scheming.

And sorry to you krsmith17, it's just too fun screwing with you about Riley's brother.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Lol f*** You Kip... Smith is awesome...

But in all seriousness, Smith is better than Ouellet right now, and I'm not so sure Ouellet will be better in the future. The sample size is way too small at this point. It is very possible, but we all know that better prospects have played better than Ouellet for a handful of games and then fell off. I find it very difficult to believe that Ouellet would garner more interest than Smith. Possible but doubtful in my opinion...

[kipwinger 8,524]

Lol f*** You Kip... Smith is awesome...

But in all seriousness, Smith is better than Ouellet right now, and I'm not so sure Ouellet will be better in the future. The sample size is way too small at this point. It is very possible, but we all know that better prospects have played better than Ouellet for a handful of games and then fell off. I find it very difficult to believe that Ouellet would garner more interest than Smith. Possible but doubtful in my opinion...

Babcock doesn't think Smith is better. Which is why he keeps giving Ouellet more minutes. Smith is yesterday's news. He'll be the new Kindl once the old Kindl is thrown on the heap.

[krsmith17 7,191]

My question though is, if we agree that that is a pretty decent package, why is it so difficult to find a trading partner? We're always linked to every player that is on the trade block. When there is a list of teams that are in on a player, Detroit are almost always there... Is Holland really that inept in making a trade or is the conspiracy theory true, that every team asks for more from Detroit, which I find very difficult to believe...

[kipwinger 8,524]

My question though is, if we agree that that is a pretty decent package, why is it so difficult to find a trading partner? We're always linked to every player that is on the trade block. When there is a list of teams that are in on a player, Detroit are almost always there... Is Holland really that inept in making a trade or is the conspiracy theory true, that every team asks for more from Detroit, which I find very difficult to believe...

Because neither Holland, nor Babcock, wants to trade Ouellet (or the first round pick). In a vacuum it's a good package, and it really is one, but that doesn't mean Holland's interested in shopping a package like that. Holland's bread and butter is drafting and prospect development. He'd almost always keep a prospect with upside and a pick, rather than bring in help from outside. And who can blame him? Look what he's able to accomplish with prospects and picks.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I disagree Kip, and Smith does get more ice time than Ouellet, despite Babcock's unexplained animosity for Brendan. We're both overly biased when it comes to Smith, so let's once again drop it... Until next time...

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

My question though is, if we agree that that is a pretty decent package, why is it so difficult to find a trading partner? We're always linked to every player that is on the trade block. When there is a list of teams that are in on a player, Detroit are almost always there... Is Holland really that inept in making a trade or is the conspiracy theory true, that every team asks for more from Detroit, which I find very difficult to believe...

I think it has to do with Holland's extreme reluctance to trade roster players(until after their value hits rock bottom ie.Kindl), combined with the fact we only ever seem to offer our second-tier prospects.

Also WE may think our trade proposals are fair but most other teams fans would find them insulting.

But then again everyone overvalues their own assets. Including us...

[krsmith17 7,191]

For sure, but at some point a trade needs to be made to improve the team. I think that point is now. We haven't seen much in trades in the past 5 years and for good reason, we were retooling on the fly. Now that we have a decent team and are relatively healthy (*knock on wood*) for the first time in a few years, we have a team that is capable in making a run. And with a few minor tweaks / additions, I think this team can be a real threat.

I completely agree with what you're saying though, Holland hasn't strayed from his process, and it has proven successful. But we all know this team needs help on the back end, and we're not going to get that without giving up something of significance. We're loaded at literally every position on the farm and we're soon going to run into a problem when it comes to fitting them all in. I know they're not all going to make it, but for the ones that do, I don't want to lose them for nothing...

[krsmith17 7,191]

I agree Son of a Wing, but I'm not really over valuing anyone, just wondering what we could get in that package. I mean, it seems decent to me, and I think other GMs in the league would think so too. I'm not saying we should get Weber, but it has to give us a decent right handed top 4 defenseman. Could we get Justin Faulk from Carolina?...

[kipwinger 8,524]

For sure, but at some point a trade needs to be made to improve the team. I think that point is now. We haven't seen much in trades in the past 5 years and for good reason, we were retooling on the fly. Now that we have a decent team and are relatively healthy (*knock on wood*) for the first time in a few years, we have a team that is capable in making a run. And with a few minor tweaks / additions, I think this team can be a real threat.

I completely agree with what you're saying though, Holland hasn't strayed from his process, and it has proven successful. But we all know this team needs help on the back end, and we're not going to get that without giving up something of significance. We're loaded at literally every position on the farm and we're soon going to run into a problem when it comes to fitting them all in. I know they're not all going to make it, but for the ones that do, I don't want to lose them for nothing...

I certainly agree with making minor tweaks, but I think that given how Holland operates, the package you've put together (while good) isn't something he'd shop. The MOST I could see him offering is a 2nd round pick and a middling roster player. And even then, I don't think he'd move anyone that Babcock liked.

Edited January 6, 2015 by kipwinger

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

I just don't think Holland would offer up Ouellet or any of our top prospects.

Which is exactly why we don't see many trades...

I don't believe many teams are interested in a package of 2-3 underachievers and a 2nd.

Unless it's a rental/cap dump/+35er its going to cost us a valuable roster piece +.

Also I'm pretty sure it will be one of our young wingers going in a trade eventually. Simply a numbers game.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Here's Kahn's most recent take on the whole "trade thing"

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/01/ask_ansar_on_red_wings_need_fo.html

Q: It's fairly obvious Detroit needs a right-handed shooting offensive D-man. We've heard about (Tyler) Myers and (Mike) Green almost exclusively for the past few months, and that the price Buffalo wants is too high. So my question isn't who do the Wings get, it's who are they willing to part with to get another D-man? Do other teams even want what the Wings are willing to part with? - Saskatoon Wingnut

A: They're not trading top prospects Anthony Mantha and Dylan Larkin or their 2015 first-round pick. I doubt they would move any top-nine forwards or top-four defensemen from the roster, at least not the ones that could land them a top-pair defenseman. That doesn't leave much for trade bait - second-tier prospects, second-round picks, fringe roster players. That's not nearly enough to land Myers, so I think it's time to end that pipe dream.

Green, because he's unrestricted after the season, wouldn't cost as much should Washington opt to move him. But if the Capitals are in playoff contention by the March 2 trade deadline, they're probably not dealing him within the Eastern Conference. And if they're not in playoff contention, I'm guessing another team would offer more than the Red Wings.

He's basically echoing a lot of sentiments I'm hearing in this thread. I wonder how much he really knows?

[kipwinger 8,524]

Here's Kahn's most recent take on the whole "trade thing"

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/01/ask_ansar_on_red_wings_need_fo.html

He's basically echoing a lot of sentiments I'm hearing in this thread. I wonder how much he really knows?

If I were Holland I would demand that Weiss demand a trade. He's played well enough to have value again, and god knows we're not using him for anything. Weiss, Smith, and a 2nd (all available per this Khan article as none are in the top 9 or 4) might get you something good. Lol.

Edited January 6, 2015 by kipwinger

[rick zombo 3,739]

If I were Holland I would demand that Weiss demand a trade. He's played well enough to have value again, and god knows we're not using him for anything. Weiss, Smith, and a 2nd (all available per this Khan article as none are in the top 9 or 4) might get you something good. Lol.

That's the saddest thing about the Weiss situation IMO. This time two months ago we were all clamoring on about how "done" he was. He faced some adversity with his health, and did/said all the right things to get himself back on the roster. AND THEN he produced. So, within this context, I would loooooove to know what he's doing wrong, or more specifically, what someone like Franzen is doing better.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

On a related note... I'd love to see Tim Murray (Sabres GM) completely skunk himself.

His asking prices for...well...just about everyone are ridiculous.

Stewart, Stafford and Enroth(Pending UFAs) are all supposedly worth a 1st and a top prospect.

We all know the price for Myers as well.

[kipwinger 8,524]

That's the saddest thing about the Weiss situation IMO. This time two months ago we were all clamoring on about how "done" he was. He faced some adversity with his health, and did/said all the right things to get himself back on the roster. AND THEN he produced. So, within this context, I would loooooove to know what he's doing wrong, or more specifically, what someone like Franzen is doing better.

You and me both pal.