Helmethead 235 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 Is this the story about Riley and Brendan Smith? 2 number9 and e_prime reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 Is this the story about Riley and Brendan Smith? They were Wings and Leafs fans respectively growing up right? I bet they fought a lot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Helmethead 235 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 It's a safe bet they did. Lol With Riley being traded, all Boston has to show for the Seguin trade is Loui Eriksson. Yikes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,963 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 There will be no s*** storm, not even a fart parade when it comes to Franzen. I do, unfortunately, understand the financial side of it and the possible ways he can hurt us more against the cap. If he Is going to be the 13th forward and bump Andersson/Ferraro/Callahan to waivers, I would rather Holland address this issue now and try to trade to odd kids out so at least you don't lose them for nothing. The NHL is a business and I understand having to make decisions based on money first. So, that being known, lets look at who will really be the odd men out with Franzen healthy enough to float around the ice: WITH Franzen, they have 13 forwards signed, Jurco and Pulk would make 15 and with Callahan it makes 16. You have to think that Jurco and Pulk (barring a trade) would be the choices over Ferraro, Callahan or Andersson. So with your 14 forwards set with Jurco and Pulk rounding themout you will have to waive/trade 2 of Ferraro, Callahan and Andersson, there will nZERO room on this team if Franzen starts the season healthy. Tatar-Datsyuk-Abby Nyquist-Richards-Zetterberg Jurco-SHeahan-Pulk Miller-Glendening-Helm Franzen/Ferraro Sure there is a chance they clear, and they wouldn't be a huge loss I guess, but I just hope that Holland has a trade up his sleeve or two of these guys because at least getting a pick would be fine. Also, there are a few players in GR WITH exemptions left that could be called up if Franzen goes LTIR, or if there are any other injuries, that wouldn't have to clear waivers to be sent back down. I am not even entirely sure that an injury call up has to clear waivers... Sure the loss would be minimal, so long as it gets us some kind of compensation in return, but to lose them for ZERO return for a roll of the dice with Franzen is not a good thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingedWheel91 271 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 "were in the eye of a s***icane here! Johan's a low s*** system" - Jim Lahey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jesusberg 1,256 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 It's like when your trying to go play street hockey with the boys and your mom tells you to bring your little brother, and you cry and moan because you don't want to bring him. He's not even bad at a street ball, he's just your dorky little brother and you don't want him around. Then one day your going to a nearby parking lot to take slapshots at parked cars and your mom says "bring your little brother with you". But your brother says he doesn't feel well. So you tell him he better stay in and get some rest and that you hope he feels better... but secretly you'd wish he'd stay sick forever. That's some passive-aggressive Cain and Abel stuff right there. There will be no s*** storm, not even a fart parade when it comes to Franzen. I do, unfortunately, understand the financial side of it and the possible ways he can hurt us more against the cap. If he Is going to be the 13th forward and bump Andersson/Ferraro/Callahan to waivers, I would rather Holland address this issue now and try to trade to odd kids out so at least you don't lose them for nothing. The NHL is a business and I understand having to make decisions based on money first. So, that being known, lets look at who will really be the odd men out with Franzen healthy enough to float around the ice: WITH Franzen, they have 13 forwards signed, Jurco and Pulk would make 15 and with Callahan it makes 16. You have to think that Jurco and Pulk (barring a trade) would be the choices over Ferraro, Callahan or Andersson. So with your 14 forwards set with Jurco and Pulk rounding themout you will have to waive/trade 2 of Ferraro, Callahan and Andersson, there will nZERO room on this team if Franzen starts the season healthy. Tatar-Datsyuk-Abby Nyquist-Richards-Zetterberg Jurco-SHeahan-Pulk Miller-Glendening-Helm Franzen/Ferraro Sure there is a chance they clear, and they wouldn't be a huge loss I guess, but I just hope that Holland has a trade up his sleeve or two of these guys because at least getting a pick would be fine. Also, there are a few players in GR WITH exemptions left that could be called up if Franzen goes LTIR, or if there are any other injuries, that wouldn't have to clear waivers to be sent back down. I am not even entirely sure that an injury call up has to clear waivers... Sure the loss would be minimal, so long as it gets us some kind of compensation in return, but to lose them for ZERO return for a roll of the dice with Franzen is not a good thing. I'll level with you - I think it would be a mistake to have Jurco or Pulkkinen on the fourth line, which is what will likely happen if Mule is healthy. Is it an ideal situation? Definitely not, but what can you do with Franzen? As others have pointed out, there's too much risk in trying to move his contract, waive him, buy him out, etc. Ken Holland signed him to this deal, and the team is stuck with him. It's not about rolling the dice with Franzen, it's about making a calculated decision and not making a situation worse. Best case scenario occurs when Mule is at full health and contributing 20+ goals. Regardless of his play, his cap hit, his term or whatever, I like guys who can score 20+ goals for this team. Honestly, I don't think you're getting a pick for guys you may or may not lose on waivers. Personally, I like Callahan's game and I would enjoy having him on Detroit's fourth line. If it doesn't happen, it's not the end of the world, though. A healthy Franzen can make or break a playoff series - you can't say that about Mitch Callahan. 2 barabbas16 and e_prime reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingedWheel91 271 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 Wrong. Best case for both Franzen's long term health and the future of the Detroit Red Wings is the same thing. LTIR. Marc Savard, Chris Pronger and Nathan Horton all got paid the money the earned, without counting against their teams Salary Cap. It isn't simply convenience or the use of a scapegoat to suggest this. I am not pretending to know him personally and care for him more than I actually do - I admit I believe the Red Wings are better without him, and statistically this has been proven through advanced metrics. But at the same time, we have also started to further understand the long term effects of brain trauma to professional athletes, and no one wants to see Johan in a situation like some of the former NHL player who have suffered - regardless of how you feel about him as a hockey player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arag 308 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 Wrong. Best case for both Franzen's long term health and the future of the Detroit Red Wings is the same thing. LTIR. Marc Savard, Chris Pronger and Nathan Horton all got paid the money the earned, without counting against their teams Salary Cap. It isn't simply convenience or the use of a scapegoat to suggest this. I am not pretending to know him personally and care for him more than I actually do - I admit I believe the Red Wings are better without him, and statistically this has been proven through advanced metrics. But at the same time, we have also started to further understand the long term effects of brain trauma to professional athletes, and no one wants to see Johan in a situation like some of the former NHL player who have suffered - regardless of how you feel about him as a hockey player. not sure about others. However Pronger's did count against salary cap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barabbas16 499 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 Wrong. Best case for both Franzen's long term health and the future of the Detroit Red Wings is the same thing. LTIR. Marc Savard, Chris Pronger and Nathan Horton all got paid the money the earned, without counting against their teams Salary Cap. It isn't simply convenience or the use of a scapegoat to suggest this. I am not pretending to know him personally and care for him more than I actually do - I admit I believe the Red Wings are better without him, and statistically this has been proven through advanced metrics. But at the same time, we have also started to further understand the long term effects of brain trauma to professional athletes, and no one wants to see Johan in a situation like some of the former NHL player who have suffered - regardless of how you feel about him as a hockey player. Could you post some of the advanced metrics that prove the Red Wings are better off without Franzen, please? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 I'll level with you - I think it would be a mistake to have Jurco or Pulkkinen on the fourth line, which is what will likely happen if Mule is healthy. Honestly, I don't think you're getting a pick for guys you may or may not lose on waivers. Personally, I like Callahan's game and I would enjoy having him on Detroit's fourth line. If it doesn't happen, it's not the end of the world, though. A healthy Franzen can make or break a playoff series - you can't say that about Mitch Callahan. I really see Jurco and Pulkkinen on limited fourth line duties unless they really don't play themselves out of that role. They really need to push Helm off the second line and they should even be trying to push Abby out of that first line spot. Slotting them into lines at this point... I dunno. Kinda hard. Franzen's spot could be open. You also have to factor in whether Datsyuk will be ready to go at the beginning of the season... The fact remains that unless some team is really coveting one or more of Andersson, Ferraro, or Callahan they're unlikely to be claimed at the beginning of the season due to teams still figuring out their own team/roster/depth... and the inevitable injuries that will occur throughout the season. I too would love to see Cally and Lando eventually get some fourth line time with Glenny. Like say, instead of Andersson... or when there are injuries that require a call up or next year when we have to make a choice of re-signing a 32 y/o Drew Miller or replacing him with someone younger and cheaper. not sure about others. However Pronger's did count against salary cap. When? 1 Jesusberg reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arag 308 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 I really see Jurco and Pulkkinen on limited fourth line duties unless they really don't play themselves out of that role. They really need to push Helm off the second line and they should even be trying to push Abby out of that first line spot. Slotting them into lines at this point... I dunno. Kinda hard. Franzen's spot could be open. You also have to factor in whether Datsyuk will be ready to go at the beginning of the season... The fact remains that unless some team is really coveting one or more of Andersson, Ferraro, or Callahan they're unlikely to be claimed at the beginning of the season due to teams still figuring out their own team/roster/depth... and the inevitable injuries that will occur throughout the season. I too would love to see Cally and Lando eventually get some fourth line time with Glenny. Like say, instead of Andersson... or when there are injuries that require a call up or next year when we have to make a choice of re-signing a 32 y/o Drew Miller or replacing him with someone younger and cheaper. When? while he was on IR. it had to do with something like the his age when Philadelphia signed him on a long term deal. It's in CBA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) while he was on IR. it had to do with something like the his age when Philadelphia signed him on a long term deal. It's in CBA. I really wish CapGeek were around so that I could show you that this is most definitely NOT the case. Hell, his cap wasn't even counting against Philly last year when he was unofficially retired despite still being under contract and took a job with the NHL. Philly has been free of his cap hit for ages. ...but it doesn't matter much anyway as Franzen has and can seemingly continue to sit on LITR with no problems... AAAANNNNDDDD to once again drag this thread back on topic... kicking and screaming: Another rough translation of contract talks, this time with Pulkks. From Malik: http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/roughly-translated-pulkkinen-expects-contract-with-wings-to-be-resolved-soo?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter Finnish is an incredibly difficult language to translate, so it would figure that today, Iltahleti's Tomi Salomaa conducted a two-part interview with Teemu Pulkkinen. Here's what I can glean from rough translations of the first and second articles: First, Pulkkinen tells Salomaa that he believes he'll sign a new contract with the Wings in a "couple of weeks," and that he's expecting to sign a 1-year, 1-way contract to hopefully prove that he belongs in the NHL on a full-time basis; And second, Pulkkinen displays his workout routine, which includes six sets of high step-climbing in the morning and an evening workout, and Pulkkinen says that his previous reputation for not being in shape back in 2012 isn't accurate any more, and that he's doing his best to come to Detroit in the best shape possible because "it would be stupid" to show up in anything but excellent shape; He also states that there's a different emphasis in the U.S. regarding "being good at something" as opposed to always having something to improve upon in terms of hockey skills, so there's more positive reinforcement in the U.S... And he's still engaging in other sports despite the fact that the Wings' workout prescription is on the wall of his apartment. That's what I can get out of the Finnish via translation; if anyone's willing to lend a hand, it would be greatly appreciated. Sounds like another case of a guy getting geared up for a season to show what he's really got. Edited July 15, 2015 by e_prime Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) Wonder if Aubry plays as GR's fourth-line center. Out of Larkin, Athanasiou, Miele and Nosek, you have to think that one of them moves to the wing. I think there's too much talent there to play one of them down to the fourth line, but what do I know? Just hope frk doesn't got screwed over and plays in Toledo again ... He does and his chances of ever playing in detroit are basically over Edited July 15, 2015 by nyqvististhefuture Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jesusberg 1,256 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 Just hope dark doesn't got screwed over and plays in Toledo again ... He does and his chances of ever playing in detroit are basically over I was thinking that maybe a line of Tvrdon-Nosek-Frk could mesh well, but then Tangradi, Hoggan and Grant were thrown into the mix. Add in the possibility of Callahan/Ferraro heading back to GR, and there's really not much room down there. Does he beat out any of AA, Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Miele, Tangradi, Tvrdon, Nosek or Hoggan for a top-nine spot? Possibly Hoggan? Then throw Callahan/Ferraro into the mix, and possibly Nastasiuk pushing for a spot. Grant-Aubry-Campbell as your fourth line - you're pressed to find Frk a spot, IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 Just hope dark doesn't got screwed over and plays in Toledo again ... He does and his chances of ever playing in detroit are basically over Is "dark" autocorrected Frk? Serious question -- Not trying to be a smartass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) Franzen is s****. Get at me. I kid i kid. I think if he came back (for the 30 games that he will last before adding to his accumulating traumatic brain injury), he could be pretty damn potent on line 3. He could be the goat in 2 kids and goat line with SHeahan and Jurco. But im pretty sure hell be on Datstyuk or Richards line Btw do we have a source of time of his return? Edited July 15, 2015 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 Franzen is s****. Get at me. I kid i kid. I think if he came back (for the 30 games that he will last before adding to his accumulating traumatic brain injury), he could be pretty damn potent on line 3. He could be the goat in 2 kids and goat line with SHeahan and Jurco. But im pretty sure hell be on Datstyuk or Richards line Btw do we have a source of time of his return? No. That's the thing. He may or may not even be ready to return at the beginning of the season... or at all. Ever. So all this worrying and being flustered over the possibility of him taking/wasting a roster spot may be moot anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 Franzen is s****. Get at me. I kid i kid. I think if he came back (for the 30 games that he will last before adding to his accumulating traumatic brain injury), he could be pretty damn potent on line 3. He could be the goat in 2 kids and goat line with SHeahan and Jurco. But im pretty sure hell be on Datstyuk or Richards line Btw do we have a source of time of his return? Wasn't he on the 3rd line most of the time this past season? Although he was 6th among forwards in TOI/G Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jesusberg 1,256 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) No. That's the thing. He may or may not even be ready to return at the beginning of the season... or at all. Ever. So all this worrying and being flustered over the possibility of him taking/wasting a roster spot may be moot anyway. I think this is what's got the anti-Mule crowd worked up: Source: http://www.foxsports.com/detroit/story/holland-doesn-t-expect-to-do-much-in-trade-free-agent-market-062915 "Where's Mule going to be in September?" Holland asks. "Certainly we expect him to be healthy. Everything I'm told is that he's making good progress. He's healthy. He's practicing. We expect him to be ready." Could be legitimate. It could just be KH protecting his a**. If you flat out admit a guy is done, I assume that works against you keeping him on LTIR - league would just expect him to retire. You have to at least keep up appearances. Also, I can't seem to find anything on it, but I'm sure someone mentioned him even pushing to get into the second round if Detroit beat Tampa Bay. I'm not 100% if it was just something floating around or if someone had a legitimate source. Either way, it seems as if the teams expects him to be in the lineup. The only thing keeping him out is a setback during training camp or the preseason, which is probably 50/50 at this point. Edited July 15, 2015 by Jesusberg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted July 15, 2015 Is "dark" autocorrected Frk? Serious question -- Not trying to be a smartass. Lol ya meant to say frk , didn't notice it ... Sorry man Stupid ipad I was thinking that maybe a line of Tvrdon-Nosek-Frk could mesh well, but then Tangradi, Hoggan and Grant were thrown into the mix. Add in the possibility of Callahan/Ferraro heading back to GR, and there's really not much room down there. Does he beat out any of AA, Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi, Miele, Tangradi, Tvrdon, Nosek or Hoggan for a top-nine spot? Possibly Hoggan? Then throw Callahan/Ferraro into the mix, and possibly Nastasiuk pushing for a spot. Grant-Aubry-Campbell as your fourth line - you're pressed to find Frk a spot, IMO. Ya I'm not liking frk's chances but I really hope he makes the team ... I know he got to play with Mackinnon and drouin and it helped his numbers but he showed some good things Maybe we'll lose someone off waivers and he'll get a shot , or beat someone else out? Anyone seen much of colin campbell last year? Any chance he makes it to the nhl? I know he's probably a fourth liner but maybe frk could beat someone like him for a spot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted July 16, 2015 Anyone worrying about losing a guy like Andersson, Ferraro, or Callahan on waivers should find more important things to worry about. They're all dime a dozen players. 1 greenrebellion reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragonballgtz 273 Report post Posted July 16, 2015 I really wish CapGeek were around so that I could show you that this is most definitely NOT the case. Hell, his cap wasn't even counting against Philly last year when he was unofficially retired despite still being under contract and took a job with the NHL. Philly has been free of his cap hit for ages. Guys like Savard and Pronger do count against their teams cap hit. However, a team is able to go above the cap limit by X amount based on a formula. On topic: I hope these guys get signed soon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted July 16, 2015 Guys like Savard and Pronger do count against their teams cap hit. However, a team is able to go above the cap limit by X amount based on a formula. On topic: I hope these guys get signed soon Before the season starts, sure... it's a % of the cap. However when rosters are sorted out for the season and people are waived, re-assigned, put on LITR, etc. Those aforementioned players on perma-LITR: Pronger, Savard, Franzen, Nathan Horton... well... they then don't count against the cap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Before the season starts, sure... it's a % of the cap. However when rosters are sorted out for the season and people are waived, re-assigned, put on LITR, etc. Those aforementioned players on perma-LITR: Pronger, Savard, Franzen, Nathan Horton... well... they then don't count against the cap. According to wikipedia Horton was killed by Ryan O' Rielly's pickup truck and died at age 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Horton Someone is trolling wikipedia, I just wanted to point out. (That ^ information is false.) Back to topic. resign Jurco, put him on line with Datsyuk give him his confidence back. Edited July 16, 2015 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheXym 2,606 Report post Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) Lol the sh** storm is becoming a sh** systemI thought that was Toronto's make the playoffs strategy the last decade or so. Edited July 16, 2015 by TheXym Share this post Link to post Share on other sites