Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted July 22, 2015 Nyquist and Tatar both showed a lot more than Pulkkinen did in the NHL. Both are far superior skaters and worked to get open more than Pulkkinen did. In the AHL. In the NHL he was slow and didn't look like he had any clue about how to find open ice. The AHL players are slower and give guys more room, and the goalies leave more of the net open. Lots of guys score a ton in the minors but can't hack it in the NHL. You can make that "in the AHL" argument about the vast majority of players. Doesn't really mean a whole lot. I don't share your opinion on how he looked, or that Tatar or Nyquist looked any better. But regardless of eye test opinions, neither was any more effective. Maybe they did get open more, I don't know, and neither do you. The NHL doesn't track getting open as a stat. But if they did, it didn't translate to getting shots on net or scoring any significant amount more. But both have improved significantly since then. It remains to be seen if Pulkkinen will follow suit. But I see no reason to think he can't or isn't likely to. Sure, they have speed that he lacks, but he has a shot that they lack. He'll probably have to play a little differently in the NHL, but not so dramatically different that it should be a problem. 2 krsmith17 and PavelValerievichDatsyuk reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,963 Report post Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Zombo, Well, then debate without trolling...Other than the above post where I correct what you said about what I used to call him, feel free to go back through all my references to him and see when the last time I called him that. I do not refer to him that way and haven't for a long time. Go ahead, find it. Then apologize for calling me absolutely childish when referring to him. I explained (twice now) why I slotted him in the 13th spot, its not because I dislike him, if that were the case I would have left him off completely, it's because, I believe, at this point in his recovery, that not playing an entire season in the top 6 would be better for him than doing so and running the risk of re-injury. On the other hand seeing spot time in and out of the lineup, setting a goal to remain off of IR throughout the season is a huge step towards making it back to playing full time, especially his first season off LTIR. That assessment has nothing to do for my dislike for him, if I were going just by my dislike, I would prefer he be gone, but I know he won't be bought out or traded, but refuse to believe that in his first season back after a near career ending head injury, that he will be healthy and ready enough to knock Nyquist, with his new $4.75M contract, who needs to prove that he is worth it, down to the 3rd line. It aint happening, Nyquist is our new go to guy along with Tatar, no way Franzen steps right in and knocks these two out of the top 6 off the get go... Edited July 22, 2015 by LeftWinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted July 22, 2015 Zombo, Well, then debate without trolling...Other than the above post where I correct what you said about what I used to call him, feel free to go back through all my references to him and see when the last time I called him that. I do not refer to him that way and haven't for a long time. Go ahead, find it. Then apologize for calling me absolutely childish when referring to him. I explained (twice now) why I slotted him in the 13th spot, its not because I dislike him, if that were the case I would have left him off completely, it's because, I believe, at this point in his recovery, that not playing an entire season in the top 6 would be better for him than doing so and running the risk of re-injury. On the other hand seeing spot time in and out of the lineup, setting a goal to remain off of IR throughout the season is a huge step towards making it back to playing full time, especially his first season off LTIR. That assessment has nothing to do for my dislike for him, if I were going just by my dislike, I would prefer he be gone, but I know he won't be bought out or traded, but refuse to believe that in his first season back after a near career ending head injury, that he will be healthy and ready enough to knock Nyquist, with his new $4.75M contract, who needs to prove that he is worth it, down to the 3rd line. It aint happening, Nyquist is our new go to guy along with Tatar, no way Franzen steps right in and knocks these two out of the top 6 off the get go... I'm not trolling you. And for the record, other members are mashing your balls way harder than I am about the "inside source stuff". For my part, I promise to never bring that up again. As far as Franzen goes, you hate him. And that's fine. I don't have to prove it. Any regular member of LGWs knows the deal. But I'm done with that too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
number9 3,297 Report post Posted July 22, 2015 Well there is ZERO chance, even healthy enough to play, that he plays 82 games. I never said he was be in the press box for 82 games either. Instead of just looking at the lines and commenting on Franzen being listed as the 13th guy, read the post that goes with it. He will spend time in the press box in order to stay off IR and avoid being bashed around night in and night out. It's the safest thing for him. Like I said, to him, right now, a successful season will be staying off the IR for the entire campaign. If he plays 50 games, that will be a successful healthy season in regards to his steps towards becoming a full time player again. FINALLY, some inside knowledge from your sources. Are they going to space out the games or let him get a big rest before the playoffs??? 1 WingedWheel91 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted July 22, 2015 You can make that "in the AHL" argument about the vast majority of players. Doesn't really mean a whole lot. I don't share your opinion on how he looked, or that Tatar or Nyquist looked any better. But regardless of eye test opinions, neither was any more effective. Maybe they did get open more, I don't know, and neither do you. The NHL doesn't track getting open as a stat. But if they did, it didn't translate to getting shots on net or scoring any significant amount more. But both have improved significantly since then. It remains to be seen if Pulkkinen will follow suit. But I see no reason to think he can't or isn't likely to. Sure, they have speed that he lacks, but he has a shot that they lack. He'll probably have to play a little differently in the NHL, but not so dramatically different that it should be a problem. Stats don't tell the whole story. Tatar and Nyquist can drive the play. Pulkkinen doesn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rick zombo 3,739 Report post Posted July 22, 2015 Stats don't tell the whole story. Tatar and Nyquist can drive the play. Pulkkinen doesn't. No, but he can certainly finish a play. 2 krsmith17 and e_prime reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Stats don't tell the whole story. Tatar and Nyquist can drive the play. Pulkkinen doesn't. I don't care if he can drive the play. We've got enough playmakers. We need finishers. I'm hoping to see if Pulkkinen translate his AHL goal-scoring talents into the NHL level. EDIT: Same reason I want Franzen on the ice, if he's healthy and effective. Edited July 22, 2015 by e_prime 3 DatsyukianDekes, krsmith17 and rick zombo reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,963 Report post Posted July 22, 2015 I would like nothing more than for Pulk's offense to translate to the NHL...we have lacked that one timer slapshot for a long long time! I really hope that he plays well enough to earn PP time and maybe even top 6 time once in a while! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted July 22, 2015 Stats don't tell the whole story. Tatar and Nyquist can drive the play. Pulkkinen doesn't. Typical vague nonsense that people like to resort to when the stats are against them. How am I supposed to debate that? Yes he does? As riveting as a good "can to/can not" exchange would be, I think I'll pass. I suspect "drive the play" just means whatever you think you can describe that Pulkkinen doesn't do well, but Nyquist and Tatar do. The thing with un-quantifiable metrics is that they don't mean anything until they're translated to something you can quantify. Tatar and Nyquist can drive the s*** out of a play like no one ever has, does, or ever will again, and if it doesn't result in anything measurable than it's worthless. But even that didn't happen. We weren't all sitting around watching Nyquist score 3g and 6p in 22 games, saying, "Damn, did you see him drive that play? That was some play driving right there! That play got it's ass drove off!". They didn't step into the NHL and play like 30g scorers from day one, but get really unlucky with the puck just not going in. They played, looked good at times, poor at times, but mostly unnoticeable except in that people who were excited to see them payed them special attention. Not at all unlike Pulkkinen. Then with more time and experience they improved. Made better decisions, quicker decisions, adjusted to the competition...the way most young players do. Will Pulkkinen be able to adjust and improve? That's always the question. Could ask the same of any our prospects. But is it possible he could? Absolutely. 2 krsmith17 and LeftWinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingedWheel91 271 Report post Posted July 22, 2015 With the contract Nyquist just got and his ability to top 30 goals, do you honestly see him on the 3rd line? IF Franzen is back, I see HIM 3rd line at them most, with some PP time of course. I really see him being more like the 13th forward. Besides you left out Miller. I think if Franzen makes a successful comeback in the NHL (and right now a successful comeback would be just staying off the IR for a whole season, his 30 goal seasons are over) it will be best to be limited in his role on this team to only playing so much to avoid another relapse. If our former coach were still here, I could see him forcing Franzen into a bigger role than he is ready for AND keeping Dats and Z together. I believe Blash will experiment with them together and splitting them up to see what is more problematic for other teams. I see a healthy roster looking like this: Tatar - Datsyuk - Abdelkader Nyquist - Richards - Zetterberg Jurco - Sheahan - Pulkkinen Miller - Glendening - Helm Franzen (along with either Ferraro or Anderssson) First of all, if Johan Franzen is healthy - Drew Miller is the odd man out... every time. Second, I really don't know why its so difficult to imagine Nyquist on the third line. Sorry to piss everyone off, but Gustav Nyquist only recorded 30 even strength points this year - and was invisible during the playoffs (where powerplays are typically less frequent). I'm not saying he's garbage, I'm not saying he's useless at even strength, I'm only saying that Johan Franzen certainly isn't playing on the 4th line, and probably needs to play with Hank or Pav to maximize his effectiveness, but also to create space for either one more so than Nyquist will. By the way, you also don't coach or play the game simply to avoid injury - because that's when you get hurt. Playing Franzen in a limited role does absolutely nothing for the team, and both parties would be better off without him in the lineup if this were the case. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) azzz, that's just the thing, IF Franzen played healthy, but he won't, its just like saying IF Fedorov never left, his number would already be retired. I would also say, if Franzen were to play healthy he would most definitely be on one of the top 2 lines all year, so IF Pulk was with Z or D all year, he would most definitely score more than Franzen. Lot of IF's here, but until either one plays all year healthy and strong and proves everyone otherwise, I am going with the odds that Franzen is done, and Pulk will blossom playing more minutes and more quality minutes. I could counter that and say that Pulk could do better on 3rd line because he would be up against less competition and probably have more space for his shot rather on the top lines where he could potentially get out skated and ran over. Additionally Pav and Z do well with players that are big or have speed. Pulk has neither. So, no I don't think Pulk would be at the same advantage Franzen would on top lines (powerish forward with good wrist shot). The IF's may work for Franzen, but they don't necessarily work for Pulk. Not yet anyway. Z - Pav - Pulk line would be atrocious to even think about to be honest. Edited July 22, 2015 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shinzaki 72 Report post Posted July 22, 2015 With the first pick in the NHL expansion draft...the Las Vegas PawnStars select Teemu Pulkinnen, forward from the Detroit Red Wings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,963 Report post Posted July 22, 2015 ya, expansion draft...lets just hope there a relocation instead. Besides, I think Jimmy would be the exposed goalie and he may just get grabbed...hope floats maybe? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DatsyukianDekes 2,428 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 Stats don't tell the whole story. Tatar and Nyquist can drive the play. Pulkkinen doesn't. We don't need him to. We just need him to do this: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 Well there is ZERO chance, even healthy enough to play, that he plays 82 games. I never said he was be in the press box for 82 games either. Instead of just looking at the lines and commenting on Franzen being listed as the 13th guy, read the post that goes with it. He will spend time in the press box in order to stay off IR and avoid being bashed around night in and night out. It's the safest thing for him. Like I said, to him, right now, a successful season will be staying off the IR for the entire campaign. If he plays 50 games, that will be a successful healthy season in regards to his steps towards becoming a full time player again. My comments still stand. If he is healthy and playing well, there is a zero chance that he is the 13th forward. He may start the year on the IR, but once he is off, I don't see him being benched unless he is playing poorly or hurt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,963 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 That's fine and understandable, I just figured he would want to take his time getting back to top 6 role, instead of jumping into the fire and getting his head knocked in within the first 10 games. Either way, he either gets 13th forward minutes or goes on LTIR or gets his head noodled again or plays well enough to stay in the top 6... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,477 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 That's fine and understandable, I just figured he would want to take his time getting back to top 6 role, instead of jumping into the fire and getting his head knocked in within the first 10 games. Either way, he either gets 13th forward minutes or goes on LTIR or gets his head noodled again or plays well enough to stay in the top 6... So basically anything can happen? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Pred 48 337 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 Franzen I'm afraid has played his last NHL game already. The guy won't be seen in a competitive Wings jersey again. I think common sense will prevail and the Mule deep down knows the cons of a return far out weigh the pros. The front office realise this too, hence us seeming to have overloaded the forward positions this year. So for all the arguments about who will play and who won't, it really is academic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tomash 2 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 There is an interview for slovak portal http://hokejportal.netwith Jurco. Summary, they are close to 2-years contract, because he has some medical problems, and in case of possible injury during a season, he would like to have more opportunity to convince redwings, that he is a right player for red wings. He also mentioned, that he welcome Blashill as a coach, because he (blash) knows him, and he will not probably try to make him a 4th line player 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 There is an interview for slovak portal http://hokejportal.netwith Jurco. Summary, they are close to 2-years contract, because he has some medical problems, and in case of possible injury during a season, he would like to have more opportunity to convince redwings, that he is a right player for red wings. He also mentioned, that he welcome Blashill as a coach, because he (blash) knows him, and he will not probably try to make him a 4th line player This. Jurco last year was basically the definition of misuse.. would love to see a jurco-sheahan-pulks third line. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 We don't need him to. We just need him to do this: Let me know when he figures out how to do that in the NHL on a relatively consistent basis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DatsyukianDekes 2,428 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 Let me know when he figures out how to do that in the NHL on a relatively consistent basis Let me know when he's given an actual full NHL season to at least try. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 Let me know when he's given an actual full NHL season to at least try. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Helmethead 235 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 Most of those goals he scored in that clip would have beaten most NHL goalies. What a cannon!.. 2 kickazz and DatsyukianDekes reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted July 23, 2015 Do some of you believe Pulkinnen is a waste of a roster spot or something? There's very little to worry about here, we have the leading AHL scorer playing for us for dirt cheap and he isn't relied upon for scoring at this point, but it is is probably expected if he is to stay in the lineup Share this post Link to post Share on other sites