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Jedi

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Frans Nielson signs 6 year $5.25m AAV contract with Detroit

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8 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Bertuzzi as the 13th? I thought you want the kids to have roster spots?

How does an 800K Ott as a 13th forward stop you from acheiving any of this? If you absolutely need bertuzzi as your 13, waive Ott. Hes a spare part.

The 13th forward spot IS A ROSTER SPOT.  If I have to explain why having Ott as your 13th forward stops you from having Bertuzzi has your 13th forward then you're too obtuse to even bother with.  Now you're advocating signing him only to then waive him?  Brilliant.  I'm done.  You win.

Edited by kipwinger

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1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

If I have to explain why having Ott as your 13th forward stops you from having Bertuzzi has your 13th forward then you're too obtuse to even bother with.  Now you're advocating signing him only to then waive him?  Brilliant.  I'm done.  You win.

Holy cow man, yes we are done if all youre going to do is misrepresent my arguments.

I did not advocate signing Ott in order to waive him and you know that. And I asked why you arent giving Bertuzzi a spot in the lineup.

If you wanna end the conversation just walk away man. Dont drag this into the mud.

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I'd rather have a kid who is out of waivers as the 2 spare forwards than some old vet like Ott.  If you decide the kids are crap and they play their way off the team later, either promote someone else from GR or claim someone else off waivers.

If they sign a guy under 30 years old who can play on a scoring line and hit and agitate and be hard to play against, fantastic.  Otherwise just go with what they have.

marcaractac, kliq, krsmith17 and 1 other like this

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Yeah, I'm sick of having none skilled guys fill out our bottom 6, because they bring all sorts of "intangibles"... There's absolutely no reason to bring back either Miller or Ott when you have Glendening, Abdelkader, Helm, Sheahan and Bertuzzi that can all play a similar role. And you can also fill the bottom 6 with guys from Grand Rapids like Svechnikov, Nosek and Frk as well as one of the top 7 guys (Zetterberg, Nielsen, Nyquist, Tatar, Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou) that gets pushed out of the top 6. All of this of course, is assuming there are no changes to the roster up front (I hope there will be) and everyone is healthy...

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Wait, I thought we were sick of having young skill guys getting scratched and underused. I'm confused.

Do other team's fans obsess this much over the least important parts of the roster? I guess it makes some sense to complain about the worst players on the team, but I would think we could be rational enough to understand how negligible an impact those moves will have.

Bringing back Miller or Ott or someone similar, or filling that spot with a kid is completely irrelevant. It's not going to help or hurt anything. Put a better player in an insignificant role, and you're just wasting potential. Bertuzzi playing 50 games (and scratched for 30) as our 13th forward, or playing 50 in GR plus 20 in Det as an injury call-up isn't going to affect his development. 

If you're going to be scratching Sheahan and relegating Helm and Abby to the 4th line, when all of them have proven they can contribute much more significantly, you'd be better off doing whatever you can to just get rid of them and using the cap space on a FA that might actually do something. Or better yet if you think Svech can be a valuable top-9 player, you use one of the guys above him to try to help the defense. Scratching a kid with a history of solid 3rd-line level production is just inefficient. Either way, whether we plug the bottom of the roster with a kid or a cheap vet (that we might be able to flip for late pick) is just about the last thing we should be worried about.

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I said at the beginning of last year they should have made one of their bottom 2 lines a checking line, Abndelkader-Helm-Glendening.  They get defensive zone starts and their job is to hit and piss off the other team.  The other line should be 3 young skilled players.  Mantha-AA-Jurco.  That line gets mostly offensive zone starts against the other team's 3rd and 4th lines and their primary job is to score, be defensively responsible but don't focus on that.  They should do something similar next year.  

Nyquist-Zetterberg-Mantha

Tatar-Larkin-Nielsen

Svechnikov-AA-TBD

Abdelkader-Helm-Glendening

krsmith17 and kliq like this

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1 hour ago, Buppy said:

Wait, I thought we were sick of having young skill guys getting scratched and underused. I'm confused.

Do other team's fans obsess this much over the least important parts of the roster? I guess it makes some sense to complain about the worst players on the team, but I would think we could be rational enough to understand how negligible an impact those moves will have.

Bringing back Miller or Ott or someone similar, or filling that spot with a kid is completely irrelevant. It's not going to help or hurt anything. Put a better player in an insignificant role, and you're just wasting potential. Bertuzzi playing 50 games (and scratched for 30) as our 13th forward, or playing 50 in GR plus 20 in Det as an injury call-up isn't going to affect his development. 

If you're going to be scratching Sheahan and relegating Helm and Abby to the 4th line, when all of them have proven they can contribute much more significantly, you'd be better off doing whatever you can to just get rid of them and using the cap space on a FA that might actually do something. Or better yet if you think Svech can be a valuable top-9 player, you use one of the guys above him to try to help the defense. Scratching a kid with a history of solid 3rd-line level production is just inefficient. Either way, whether we plug the bottom of the roster with a kid or a cheap vet (that we might be able to flip for late pick) is just about the last thing we should be worried about.

yup yup yup yup yup

I don't understand what the concern is with signing 800K players like Miller or Ott. They're semi-useful, and you only use em when you need em. Other than that they don't hurt you at all. If Martin Frk outplays them for a roster spot, sweet waive the 800K vet. It's not a big deal either way, just an extra option. The organization seems committed to going more towards youth movement anyway.

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21 hours ago, Buppy said:

Do other team's fans obsess this much over the least important parts of the roster?

Rangers fans vs. Tanner Glass. A saga for the ages.

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On 4/21/2017 at 1:04 PM, Buppy said:

Wait, I thought we were sick of having young skill guys getting scratched and underused. I'm confused.

Do other team's fans obsess this much over the least important parts of the roster? I guess it makes some sense to complain about the worst players on the team, but I would think we could be rational enough to understand how negligible an impact those moves will have.

Bringing back Miller or Ott or someone similar, or filling that spot with a kid is completely irrelevant. It's not going to help or hurt anything. Put a better player in an insignificant role, and you're just wasting potential. Bertuzzi playing 50 games (and scratched for 30) as our 13th forward, or playing 50 in GR plus 20 in Det as an injury call-up isn't going to affect his development. 

If you're going to be scratching Sheahan and relegating Helm and Abby to the 4th line, when all of them have proven they can contribute much more significantly, you'd be better off doing whatever you can to just get rid of them and using the cap space on a FA that might actually do something. Or better yet if you think Svech can be a valuable top-9 player, you use one of the guys above him to try to help the defense. Scratching a kid with a history of solid 3rd-line level production is just inefficient. Either way, whether we plug the bottom of the roster with a kid or a cheap vet (that we might be able to flip for late pick) is just about the last thing we should be worried about.

So you're in favor of bringing someone like Miller or Ott back or no?  I'm confused.  Because if something doesn't matter you can take two approaches.  1:  Do it anyway, because it doesn't hurt anything.  2:  Don't do it because there's no utility in doing so? 

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1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

So you're in favor of bringing someone like Miller or Ott back or no?  I'm confused.  Because if something doesn't matter you can take two approaches.  1:  Do it anyway, because it doesn't hurt anything.  2:  Don't do it because there's no utility in doing so? 

Indifferent.

Though if our goal is to focus on the future, I think we would be better served by trading players rather than plugging kids into spots at the bottom and making them fight each other.

But if we're not considering trades, then I don't really care. There are pros and cons either way. 

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Whats wrong with adding a player who will compete for the last spot in the lineup? If Martin Frk cant be out Steve Ott for a spot in the lineup, then Martin Frk doesnt deserve a spot on this team

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