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Dabura

1/7 GDT - Lightning @ Red Wings - 7:00 PM EST

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I liked this game. Alot.

Annoyance.
Pain.
Hate.
Revenge.
Alertness.
Misery.

All traits needed for an ancient greek "pathos" (passion) play. Where the hero(es) through struggles finally reach enlightenment, achieving a status towering their human peers.

Well, one could dream. It's all we got, might as well go ancient on our team.

Oh and it earned me a quick 15 bucks.

=)

Edited by Jacksoni

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5 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Time to take Yzerman down from the rafters.  

Only when his team enters our arena I would vote. But yes, then it should go down.

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On 2018-01-08 at 9:29 AM, LeftWinger said:

Either way, I am pretty sure Mrazek will not be here in 18-19.  I'd love to get some kind of compensation for him, but (and remember I was a huge fan of Mrazek) I really could care either way, just as long as they don't qualify him.  Just let him become a UFA and kind work elsewhere. I am one that is really disappointed that he flopped, he showed so much potential that half a season.  He led the NHL in GAA, SAV and Shutouts. Then on his birthday game, he shat the bed and then was never the same...I also remember the time he was flying high and yelled and motioned at Helm for deflecting a puck into his own net.  I wish I could find that goal to post the video, but that also seemed like where he started declining.  Heck, it may have been the game after his birthday that season he took a dump... not sure.

No, but I think he’ll still be on the roster at the end of this season. Edmonton offered a fourth or fifth depending on factors, but Holland turned it down. I don’t see any higher offers than that coming in now. Holland may sell lower as time runs out though, if there’s interest. But why would there be interest from a playoff team in him? Or, Holland may still see him as an asset, and not just give him to another team just because he can, even if it means he walks. He COULD be qualified in principle in the off-season, but then settle for a lot less. Not like he’s going to get close to his current salary anywhere in the league anyways. Or they just cut ties fullly and promote Coreau. Who knows.

This 99.9% wouldn’t happen, but I read something recently where it was suggested they put him back in the AHL now and bring Coreau up. That way he’d get a lot more playing time and be able to work on his game. But that’s IF they still have any faith that he can return to form, and IF he clears waivers. His salary is going way down in July,  a team may snag him for nothing.

All kinds of options. But right now, I do expect Howard/Coreau next season. 

Its weird how well he was doing at one point, then just fell off. Coaches earlier in his career thought he was really something special. Fierce competitor with superior athletic ability and  eyes in the back of his head. Thrived under high pressure and was never rattled. Every game he would be out to outplay whoever was across the ice from him, and usually did. 

He rose up very quickly, and fell down almost as quickly. Shame. Such is goaltending though...

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1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

No, but I think he’ll still be on the roster at the end of this season. Edmonton offered a fourth or fifth depending on factors, but Holland turned it down. I don’t see any higher offers than that coming in now. Holland may sell lower as time runs out though, if there’s interest. But why would there be interest from a playoff team in him? Or, Holland may still see him as an asset, and not just give him to another team just because he can, even if it means he walks. He COULD be qualified in principle in the off-season, but then settle for a lot less. Not like he’s going to get close to his current salary anywhere in the league anyways. Or they just cut ties fullly and promote Coreau. Who knows.

This 99.9% wouldn’t happen, but I read something recently where it was suggested they put him back in the AHL now and bring Coreau up. That way he’d get a lot more playing time and be able to work on his game. But that’s IF they still have any faith that he can return to form, and IF he clears waivers. His salary is going way down in July,  a team may snag him for nothing.

All kinds of options. But right now, I do expect Howard/Coreau next season. 

Its weird how well he was doing at one point, then just fell off. Coaches earlier in his career thought he was really something special. Fierce competitor with superior athletic ability and  eyes in the back of his head. Thrived under high pressure and was never rattled. Every game he would be out to outplay whoever was across the ice from him, and usually did. 

He rose up very quickly, and fell down almost as quickly. Shame. Such is goaltending though...

First bold: source?

2nd Bolds: it's weird how much arguing I had to do with you to convince of this. Glad you're coming around.

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9 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

First bold: source?

2nd Bolds: it's weird how much arguing I had to do with you to convince of this. Glad you're coming around.

Dude wtf don't take the credit. It was all me. 

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14 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

First bold: source?

2nd Bolds: it's weird how much arguing I had to do with you to convince of this. Glad you're coming around.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/12/could_red_wings_get_a_decent_d.html

Discussion with the Edmonton Oilers about Mrazek centered around a fourth- or fifth-round pick. The Red Wings, who would like a third-rounder, decided it was better to keep him around as insurance while they're still reasonably close to a playoff position.

Pretty sure any trade involved Holland retaining salary as well. 

I’ve accepted his fate. Games like today’s make me wish the team wouldn’t give up on him though. He clearly hasn’t lost what he once had, but isn’t showing it enough for them when he gets chances now and then. Pretty good turnaround from Tampa though, I must say.

 

 

Edited by chaps80

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12 hours ago, chaps80 said:

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/12/could_red_wings_get_a_decent_d.html

Discussion with the Edmonton Oilers about Mrazek centered around a fourth- or fifth-round pick. The Red Wings, who would like a third-rounder, decided it was better to keep him around as insurance while they're still reasonably close to a playoff position.

Pretty sure any trade involved Holland retaining salary as well. 

I’ve accepted his fate. Games like today’s make me wish the team wouldn’t give up on him though. He clearly hasn’t lost what he once had, but isn’t showing it enough for them when he gets chances now and then. Pretty good turnaround from Tampa though, I must say.

 

 

Who's the superior goalie? Howard? Mrazek?

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12 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Who's the superior goalie? Howard? Mrazek?

Not that cut and dry to me. Howard improved when it looked like he was done in Detroit, and it coincided with Mrazek's fall when he looked like he was the future in Detroit. Mrazek was superior when he first broke in, enough to unseat a guy who had a hold on the job for a few seasons already. He was impressive. But he fell off and Howard took advantage and took the job back and has been superior since. Can chalk it up to veteran experience and hard work with Howard. He re-invented his playing style and it's paid off. With Mrazek, seems like youthful lack of discipline, not very open to coaching help, stubborn, and won't make needed permanent changes. Even though i'm sure he knows his aggressive style burns him. He has more natural talent than Howard, but needs to make adjustments and dig in to figure things out if he wants to stay in the NHL. He seems to just shrug off goals and bad games, which is a good quality, but you can't take it to the point of not caring and not learn from it. Howard made his adjustments and seems to be thriving. Mrazek might not be a Wing next season, but I can see him getting one year somewhere at a big pay cut as one last chance simply due to age and potential. Get him cheap, might turn out to be a hell of a steal.

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On 1/15/2018 at 3:03 PM, chaps80 said:

Not that cut and dry to me. Howard improved when it looked like he was done in Detroit, and it coincided with Mrazek's fall when he looked like he was the future in Detroit. Mrazek was superior when he first broke in, enough to unseat a guy who had a hold on the job for a few seasons already. He was impressive. But he fell off and Howard took advantage and took the job back and has been superior since. Can chalk it up to veteran experience and hard work with Howard. He re-invented his playing style and it's paid off. With Mrazek, seems like youthful lack of discipline, not very open to coaching help, stubborn, and won't make needed permanent changes. Even though i'm sure he knows his aggressive style burns him. He has more natural talent than Howard, but needs to make adjustments and dig in to figure things out if he wants to stay in the NHL. He seems to just shrug off goals and bad games, which is a good quality, but you can't take it to the point of not caring and not learn from it. Howard made his adjustments and seems to be thriving. Mrazek might not be a Wing next season, but I can see him getting one year somewhere at a big pay cut as one last chance simply due to age and potential. Get him cheap, might turn out to be a hell of a steal.

Whos the better goalie today?

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On 15/01/2018 at 6:03 PM, chaps80 said:

Not that cut and dry to me. Howard improved when it looked like he was done in Detroit, and it coincided with Mrazek's fall when he looked like he was the future in Detroit. Mrazek was superior when he first broke in, enough to unseat a guy who had a hold on the job for a few seasons already. He was impressive. But he fell off and Howard took advantage and took the job back and has been superior since. Can chalk it up to veteran experience and hard work with Howard. He re-invented his playing style and it's paid off. With Mrazek, seems like youthful lack of discipline, not very open to coaching help, stubborn, and won't make needed permanent changes. Even though i'm sure he knows his aggressive style burns him. He has more natural talent than Howard, but needs to make adjustments and dig in to figure things out if he wants to stay in the NHL. He seems to just shrug off goals and bad games, which is a good quality, but you can't take it to the point of not caring and not learn from it. Howard made his adjustments and seems to be thriving. Mrazek might not be a Wing next season, but I can see him getting one year somewhere at a big pay cut as one last chance simply due to age and potential. Get him cheap, might turn out to be a hell of a steal.

I'm pretty sure he has to be signed at 4 million next year though 

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11 hours ago, Euro_Twins said:

I'm pretty sure he has to be signed at 4 million next year though 

Doesn’t HAVE to be. Under the CBA, he has to be qualified at the 4 million for the Wings to retain his rights, but he is free and clear to negotiate a deal with Holland for less afterwards. And i’m sure that will be an understanding between them before he’s qualified.

He won’t get 4 million anywhere, and if he is kept around and wants one more chance to get in the team’s good graces, he’ll have to take a nice pay cut. It’s up to Mrazek (his right under CBA) to decide what he’s willing to play for.

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On 2018-01-17 at 4:41 PM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Whos the better goalie today?

Today, Howard just by numbers.

Team may not have either by the  deadline anyways. Lots of talk of a Howard trade to NYI. Mrazek is in it as well, but not as much. If NYI trades, they’ll want Jimmy. Should get Halak and a second or third coming back.

Mrazek I haven’t heard any rumours of in a bit, but Holland is phone working apparently,

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There's no way Mrazek is qualified at 4 mil and then renegotiates for less. Why would he do that? There's no advantage to doing that that I can see unless he likes giving money away. If he's qualified it would be on a one year deal worth 4 mil. If he isn't qualified, he becomes an UFA and can possibly get a better deal than any renegotiated amount Holland would offer. He would have no reason to stay, and frankly why would he?

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4 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

There's no way Mrazek is qualified at 4 mil and then renegotiates for less. Why would he do that? There's no advantage to doing that that I can see unless he likes giving money away. If he's qualified it would be on a one year deal worth 4 mil. If he isn't qualified, he becomes an UFA and can possibly get a better deal than any renegotiated amount Holland would offer. He would have no reason to stay, and frankly why would he?

Of course not. I don't think anyone suggested he would or could be. I'm assuming this was in response to what chaps said above? I think you may have misunderstood what he was saying (or am I?) What I took from what he said is that Mrazek would not receive a qualifying offer, and then after becoming a UFA, he could then negotiate a lower salary contract with us (or any other team). I think this is the most likely scenario after this season. If we don't plan on qualifying him this summer, I hope we trade him at the deadline.

I agree with Dabura, there's no way both Howard and Mrazek get traded at the deadline (or in the offseason). All signs point to us trading Petr and going with Jimmy, but if we receive a quality offer for Howard, it would be wise to at least consider it. I've always been a fan of Howard (still am), but if a team gives us a juicy offer, I'd be okay with trading him and riding Mrazek (Coreau backup) for the remainder of this season. That would also be a great way to figure out what we're going to do with Petr going forward. I realize it may be unlikely, but I'm still pulling for him to return to form from a couple years ago...

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12 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

There's no way Mrazek is qualified at 4 mil and then renegotiates for less. Why would he do that? There's no advantage to doing that that I can see unless he likes giving money away. If he's qualified it would be on a one year deal worth 4 mil. If he isn't qualified, he becomes an UFA and can possibly get a better deal than any renegotiated amount Holland would offer. He would have no reason to stay, and frankly why would he?

Not saying he would. I’m saying technically, according to the CBA,  Qualifying offers are required for a team to retain a player's rights, but  the player and team CAN agree to a contract differing from the qualifying offer in cases where both sides want the player to remain with the team, but his stats/performance don’t justify the qualifying amount.

He’s not going to get near $4 million anywhere in the league, so he qualifies and stays for less or rolls the dice as a UFA. 

But your right, he may not want to stay in Detroit regardless. Just saying it’s an option.

 

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8 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Of course not. I don't think anyone suggested he would or could be. I'm assuming this was in response to what chaps said above? I think you may have misunderstood what he was saying (or am I?) What I took from what he said is that Mrazek would not receive a qualifying offer, and then after becoming a UFA, he could then negotiate a lower salary contract with us (or any other team). I think this is the most likely scenario after this season. If we don't plan on qualifying him this summer, I hope we trade him at the deadline.

I agree with Dabura, there's no way both Howard and Mrazek get traded at the deadline (or in the offseason). All signs point to us trading Petr and going with Jimmy, but if we receive a quality offer for Howard, it would be wise to at least consider it. I've always been a fan of Howard (still am), but if a team gives us a juicy offer, I'd be okay with trading him and riding Mrazek (Coreau backup) for the remainder of this season. That would also be a great way to figure out what we're going to do with Petr going forward. I realize it may be unlikely, but I'm still pulling for him to return to form from a couple years ago...

Yeah I don’t see them both getting traded, but any offers for either should be considered. In the case of NYI, seems to be Howard they are interested in. He’s got one one year left on his deal, and they need good experienced goaltending right now with Halak and Greiss having the worst numbers combined on any team currently.  And trading for Halak and a pick makes perfect sense. He’s a UFA July 1. Either sign him for less as a stop gap measure, or let him walk. 

Moving Howard would also signal to many that the true rebuild is on. That’s not a bad thing.

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Can you sign a player as an UFA if you don't qualify him? Or is that not allowed under the CBA? If he isnt traded, I really only see 2 real scenarios. 1. Holland qualifies him. Bad move. Can't afford to pay him that. 2. Mrazek is not qualified and signs with another team (most likely). I just don't see him coming back here if he hits UFA. I think that bridge is burned.

4 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Yeah I don’t see them both getting traded, but any offers for either should be considered. In the case of NYI, seems to be Howard they are interested in. He’s got one one year left on his deal, and they need good experienced goaltending right now with Halak and Greiss having the worst numbers combined on any team currently.  And trading for Halak and a pick makes perfect sense. He’s a UFA July 1. Either sign him for less as a stop gap measure, or let him walk. 

Moving Howard would also signal to many that the true rebuild is on. That’s not a bad thing.

Who is our goalie next year then? If his stats are that bad, why resign him?

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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