2018 Prospect Tournament and Training Camp

[krsmith17 7,191]

28 minutes ago, Dabura said:

He isn't lazy, but he does need to work on being consistently engaged and such.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2018/08/03/jeff-blashill-sparked-detroit-red-wings-anthony-mantha-better/898001002/

Rasmussen seems more self-aware in that regard and pretty hard on himself. (People have said he's a Captain Serious type.) Maybe that propels him to superstar status, maybe it ultimately doesn't give him much of an edge over any given top-six forward. Dunno. It's early days. *shrug*

Overall, I could see Mantha and Rasmussen becoming sort of two sides of the same big-bodied goal-scorer coin. If Rasmussen's a perennial 30-goal-scorer, he's doing it in greasy fashion in Tomas Holmstrom's Office. If Mantha's a perennial 30-goal-scorer, he's doing it as an elite shooter a la Max Pacioretty.

I think Mantha, like most young players, needs to work on being more consistent. I do think he is "consistently engaged" though. It just doesn't always look like he is because of the way he plays the game. Much like Franzen. The Mule wasn't lazy or disengaged. He just wasn't as consistent as some fans would have liked. That goes for almost any goal scorer though, especially big power-forward type goal scorers.

I agree with the bold. I'm hoping they can become our two top six power forward left-wingers, capable of scoring 50-60 goals (100+ points).

[krsmith17 7,191]

22 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I guess you could make a case for Rasmussen's game being more conducive to big-time success at the NHL level. We've all knocked Blashill for using Mantha in a net-front role on the power play, but Blashill's not wrong when he says that's where you need to go if you want score lots of goals at the NHL level. We've badly needed an elite sniper for years now, but we've also badly needed a crease-crasher.

At the end of the day, I'm happy we have both Mantha and Rasmussen.

Meh, I still don't like Mantha used as a net front guy on the power-play. He's good at it, but I believe he'd be much better utilized as a shooter. He has an elite shot, but doesn't get to use it nearly enough. If anything, I'm just happy to have Rasmussen so that hopefully that will allow Mantha to go back to where he's had so much success on the power-play (right faceoff circle). 

[Dabura 12,232]

45 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I think Mantha, like most young players, needs to work on being more consistent. I do think he is "consistently engaged" though. It just doesn't always look like he is because of the way he plays the game. Much like Franzen. The Mule wasn't lazy or disengaged. He just wasn't as consistent as some fans would have liked. That goes for almost any goal scorer though, especially big power-forward type goal scorers.

I mean, I know what you're saying about how big-bodied forwards often look lazy or disengaged when they're really not. I'm not knocking him for appearances, I genuinely feel the engagement thing is a real thing with him. He pretty much says as much in that article.

It's not a big knock against him, just something that might not be as much of a thing with Rasmussen.

42 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Meh, I still don't like Mantha used as a net front guy on the power-play. He's good at it, but I believe he'd be much better utilized as a shooter. He has an elite shot, but doesn't get to use it nearly enough. If anything, I'm just happy to have Rasmussen so that hopefully that will allow Mantha to go back to where he's had so much success on the power-play (right faceoff circle). 

Agreed.

[solarion 118]

38 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Meh, I still don't like Mantha used as a net front guy on the power-play. He's good at it, but I believe he'd be much better utilized as a shooter. He has an elite shot, but doesn't get to use it nearly enough. If anything, I'm just happy to have Rasmussen so that hopefully that will allow Mantha to go back to where he's had so much success on the power-play (right faceoff circle). 

+1. Mantha is a sharpshooter with a career s% to go with it. He's got great eye hand, but ideally he'd be freed up to channel Brendan Shanahan like power forward/sniper behavior and less demolition man like behavior. Rasmussen should take over the net front office space and use his big body to blot out the opposing goalies view of the world.

[krsmith17 7,191]

13 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I mean, I know what you're saying about how big-bodied forwards often look lazy or disengaged when they're really not. I'm not knocking him for appearances, I genuinely feel the engagement thing is a real thing with him. He pretty much says as much in that article.

It's not a big knock against him, just something that might not be as much of a thing with Rasmussen.

Agreed.

Maybe not, but we'll see. My point though was that where Mantha may lack a little in tenacity or determination (I don't believe this to be an issue), he more than makes up for it with skill. I don't think Rasmussen has close to the level of skill as Mantha, but we'll see.

[Buppy 1,720]

11 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The reason is that Rasmussen is a year older / a year ahead in his development, not because he's necessarily a better player / prospect now or in the future.

As for Rasmussen being a better player than Mantha, I wouldn't bet on that either. It's possible, sure, but where Ras may have the edge in compete level, Mantha has the edge in overall skill. I also don't really buy into all the Mantha is lazy bulls***. The same fans that say that about Mantha, will say the same about Rasmussen, just because bigger players often get labeled as floaters because they appear to be putting in minimal effort, which simply isn't the case (all the time).

In Rasmussen's draft+1 year, he put up 92 points (47 goals, 45 assists) in 61 games (regular season and playoffs). Not bad at all, especially considering the elite performance he had in the playoffs. In Mantha's draft+1 year, he put up 158 points (81 goals, 77 assists) in 81 games (regular season and playoffs). The Q is a higher scoring league than the W, but Rasmussen also had more help in Tri-City than Mantha did in Val d'Or. Mantha was far and away his teams best player, and he carried them all the way to the President's Cup. Rasmussen wasn't even the best player on his team last year, arguably 3rd or 4th best.

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Maybe not, but we'll see. My point though was that where Mantha may lack a little in tenacity or determination (I don't believe this to be an issue), he more than makes up for it with skill. I don't think Rasmussen has close to the level of skill as Mantha, but we'll see.

While I'm not particularly concerned about Mantha's "compete level", it's something that's been talked about since his junior days. I don't think it can be dismissed as simply as "he's big". Maybe if it was just fans saying it.

However, I think it would be disappointing if Ras doesn't end up a better player than Mantha, especially if we're considering their complete game and not just offense. For one thing I think this whole "Rasmussen isn't skilled" thing is nonsense. Read any scouting report by anyone besides Jeremy Davis and you'll see a lot of praise for his skills. Similar to Mantha in many ways actually:

Quote

...has really impressive size, and that will be valued by all NHL teams on draft day. What is really intriguing though is that he couples that impressive size, with great offensive skills. He’s not just a player who scores in junior hockey because he is physically bigger and stronger than his fellow teenagers, but instead has skill to pair with that impressive physique. He has a great wrist shot. It is heavy and accurate, and is paired with a tremendously quick release which fools goalies and helps him to put the puck in the back of the net. He gets involved physically and digs hard along the boards and fights for his space in front of the net, where he can cause havoc for goalies. While he is more a goal scorer than a playmaker, his vision and passing skills are good.

Quote

...long reach makes it very hard to get the puck off of him, and he has the slick hands to control it in tight areas, or make plays in close to the goalie. This, along with his skating help him to extend plays in the cycle game, waiting for teammates to get open. His vision is very good, as is his ability to pass the puck through tight spaces. When scoring chances present themselves he can take advantage with a good pass. He can also establish body position in front of the net and use his size as an effective screen. He has the talent to bang in rebounds and tip-in shots. He also has a very heavy wrist shot, with good accuracy and an excellent release.

Potential-wise considered to be a strong two-way top-six center/wing, with #1 center ceiling. I get thinking that Vilardi (or a couple others) would have been a better pick, but that's because those players are really good prospects, not because Ras isn't. Ironically, Veleno is the one considered to not have the high-end potential, and you seem really high on him. (I am as well. Great speed and determination is a recipe for exceeding expectations. If he never learns to shoot, just play him with Zadina.)

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 hours ago, Buppy said:

While I'm not particularly concerned about Mantha's "compete level", it's something that's been talked about since his junior days. I don't think it can be dismissed as simply as "he's big". Maybe if it was just fans saying it.

However, I think it would be disappointing if Ras doesn't end up a better player than Mantha, especially if we're considering their complete game and not just offense. For one thing I think this whole "Rasmussen isn't skilled" thing is nonsense. Read any scouting report by anyone besides Jeremy Davis and you'll see a lot of praise for his skills. Similar to Mantha in many ways actually:

Potential-wise considered to be a strong two-way top-six center/wing, with #1 center ceiling. I get thinking that Vilardi (or a couple others) would have been a better pick, but that's because those players are really good prospects, not because Ras isn't. Ironically, Veleno is the one considered to not have the high-end potential, and you seem really high on him. (I am as well. Great speed and determination is a recipe for exceeding expectations. If he never learns to shoot, just play him with Zadina.)

Who said that Rasmussen isn't skilled? I think he's very skilled, just not quite as skilled as Mantha in my opinion. Rasmussen has great hand-eye coordination and will likely score a lot of his goals in tight. Mantha has a lethal shot and should be scoring his goals off the rush / in the slot. Both are very good skaters, strong on the puck, good hands, decent passers, etc.

I think Mantha and Rasmussen will both be top six wingers. I'd prefer them to be on separate lines though, so I see Mantha as our 1W and Rasmussen as our 2W. Both should be on our top power-play unit. Mantha up high as a shooter and Rasmussen down low as a net front.

Again, I never said that Rasmussen isn't a good prospect. I am higher on Veleno though, if for no other reason, I see him as a 2C and Ras as a 2W. If we could only have one or the other, I'd take Veleno, but am happy to have both, although would have been happier to have Veleno and Vilardi... 

[Dabura 12,232]

10 hours ago, Buppy said:

Similar to Mantha in many ways actually:

yeh.

The two are more similar than one might think. And I say this as someone who was adamantly opposed to the Wings taking Rasmussen 9th overall because I felt his playmaking and pure skill were lacking.

The more I see of Mantha and Rasmussen, the more they remind me of Franzen. The Holmstrom/Pacioretty distinction is probably overstating their differences, but the point was that they're looking like two sides of the same goal-scorer coin. Just call the coin Franzen.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 8/5/2018 at 8:57 AM, krsmith17 said:

The reason is that Rasmussen is a year older / a year ahead in his development, not because he's necessarily a better player / prospect now or in the future.

As for Rasmussen being a better player than Mantha, I wouldn't bet on that either. It's possible, sure, but where Ras may have the edge in compete level, Mantha has the edge in overall skill. I also don't really buy into all the Mantha is lazy bulls***. The same fans that say that about Mantha, will say the same about Rasmussen, just because bigger players often get labeled as floaters because they appear to be putting in minimal effort, which simply isn't the case (all the time).

In Rasmussen's draft+1 year, he put up 92 points (47 goals, 45 assists) in 61 games (regular season and playoffs). Not bad at all, especially considering the elite performance he had in the playoffs. In Mantha's draft+1 year, he put up 158 points (81 goals, 77 assists) in 81 games (regular season and playoffs). The Q is a higher scoring league than the W, but Rasmussen also had more help in Tri-City than Mantha did in Val d'Or. Mantha was far and away his teams best player, and he carried them all the way to the President's Cup. Rasmussen wasn't even the best player on his team last year, arguably 3rd or 4th best.

I already mentioned that.

Mantha is essentially Ericsson + skill and better skating. Zero aggressiveness. Disappears for good stretches.

Even if Mantha did have more skill than Ras, Ras is going to out-compete and out-work Mantha every step of the way. Just wait. All the skill in the world doesn't mean diddly if you don't work hard to maximize it.

22 hours ago, Dabura said:

I guess you could make a case for Rasmussen's game being more conducive to big-time success at the NHL level. We've all knocked Blashill for using Mantha in a net-front role on the power play, but Blashill's not wrong when he says that's where you need to go if you want score lots of goals at the NHL level. We've badly needed an elite sniper for years now, but we've also badly needed a crease-crasher.

At the end of the day, I'm happy we have both Mantha and Rasmussen.

First bold: I would make that case.

Second bold: PICK ONE SWITZERLAND (join me on the Rasmussen-side. Together we can rule the galaxy)

16 hours ago, Buppy said:

While I'm not particularly concerned about Mantha's "compete level", it's something that's been talked about since his junior days. I don't think it can be dismissed as simply as "he's big". Maybe if it was just fans saying it.

However, I think it would be disappointing if Ras doesn't end up a better player than Mantha, especially if we're considering their complete game and not just offense. For one thing I think this whole "Rasmussen isn't skilled" thing is nonsense. Read any scouting report by anyone besides Jeremy Davis and you'll see a lot of praise for his skills. Similar to Mantha in many ways actually:

Potential-wise considered to be a strong two-way top-six center/wing, with #1 center ceiling. I get thinking that Vilardi (or a couple others) would have been a better pick, but that's because those players are really good prospects, not because Ras isn't. Ironically, Veleno is the one considered to not have the high-end potential, and you seem really high on him. (I am as well. Great speed and determination is a recipe for exceeding expectations. If he never learns to shoot, just play him with Zadina.)

Rasmussen plays a much more complete style of game than Mantha does.

It's like Larkin v Athanasiou. So many similarities in style and play, yet Larkin is a multi-dimensional wunderkind, and AA is a one-trick pony. I see the same situation with Ras v. Mantha. Ras does everything, 200 ft skilled player with grit and determination. Mantha is just a skilled player in my mind. Kind of like a Nyquist or a Tatar....

[Buppy 1,720]

8 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Who said that Rasmussen isn't skilled? I think he's very skilled, just not quite as skilled as Mantha in my opinion. Rasmussen has great hand-eye coordination and will likely score a lot of his goals in tight. Mantha has a lethal shot and should be scoring his goals off the rush / in the slot. Both are very good skaters, strong on the puck, good hands, decent passers, etc....

Ok. "I don't think Rasmussen has close to the level of skill as Mantha" gives a somewhat different impression, but ok.

44 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Rasmussen plays a much more complete style of game than Mantha does..

Yeah, I meant the similarity comment in reference to the description of their offensive skills. I see now I forgot to add something in my last post. The two quoted scouting profiles were intended to be a "which is which" question. One is describing Mantha, one Rasmussen, yet close enough that the author might be accused of plagiarism. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I already mentioned that.

Mantha is essentially Ericsson + skill and better skating. Zero aggressiveness. Disappears for good stretches.

Even if Mantha did have more skill than Ras, Ras is going to out-compete and out-work Mantha every step of the way. Just wait. All the skill in the world doesn't mean diddly if you don't work hard to maximize it.

Mantha is essentially Ericsson except he's a forward, much better skater, better passer, better shooter, better hands, better vision, etc. But hey, they're both big, so I guess they're "essentially" the same... Mantha is plenty aggressive, but decided to take boxing lessons this offseason to become more "aggressive"... He does need to work on his consistency for sure, but that goes for just about every young player in this league.

I hope Rasmussen develops into a better player than Mantha. I think Mantha will be a 30 goal, 60+ point producer. If Rasmussen tops that, I think every Wings fan wouldn't be thrilled. I'm rooting for the kid. I'm just not as optimistic as you and a few others...

2 hours ago, Buppy said:

Ok. "I don't think Rasmussen has close to the level of skill as Mantha" gives a somewhat different impression, but ok.

How does saying one player doesn't have the same level of skill as another player mean that player isn't skilled? Mantha doesn't have close to the same level of skill as McDavid. Does that mean that Mantha is not skilled?

I'm sure Rasmussen will be a solid top 6 winger, I just think Veleno will be more valuable, and I don't see him surpassing Mantha. We'll have to wait and see, but I'm really looking forward to watch all of these kids develop over the next few seasons.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

I'm wishing all the best for Rasmussen, and hope he plays in Detroit this season...BUT I am also hoping he isn't just a bigger version of Riley Sheahan. With our need on D we could've went with others at #9 Like Cal Foote or Liljegren instead. Either one may have been possibly our top D prospect. But I do hope he makes it and then becomes a great player for us.

[kipwinger 8,772]

I don't know man, maybe I'm being self serving here but...I don't get what's not to like about Rasmussen NOW.  At the time he was drafted, sure.  There were other, potentially better, options still on the table.  I was admittedly very unhappy about the pick.  But nothing this past year has thrown up any red flags.  MAYBE injuries or something, but in terms of play how could anyone conclude after the year he's had that he's at least a more legitimate #9 pick than we thought he was? 

If Rasmussen turns about to be the next David Backes is anybody around here going to complain that he's not "skilled" enough?  I mean, I thought the pick was a stretch, but there is more than one way to be a good player in the NHL.  I'd be thrilled if Ras was big, mean, and moderately capable offensively. 

[Buppy 1,720]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

How does saying one player doesn't have the same level of skill as another player mean that player isn't skilled? Mantha doesn't have close to the same level of skill as McDavid. Does that mean that Mantha is not skilled?

I'm sure Rasmussen will be a solid top 6 winger, I just think Veleno will be more valuable, and I don't see him surpassing Mantha. We'll have to wait and see, but I'm really looking forward to watch all of these kids develop over the next few seasons.

But you didn't say "not the same". You said "not close". Relative to Mantha. Saying it relative to McDavid or another elite player would have been different. There's a lot of room below elite where a player can be both "good" and "not close" at the same time. Not so much with Mantha, as even you admit he's not even close to elite skill.

Again, I get your clarification. I'm just saying your previous, exaggerated, comment gave a more negative impression than you seemingly intended, particularly coming from you when you've hardly passed up an opportunity to deride the pick. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I'm wishing all the best for Rasmussen, and hope he plays in Detroit this season...BUT I am also hoping he isn't just a bigger version of Riley Sheahan. With our need on D we could've went with others at #9 Like Cal Foote or Liljegren instead. Either one may have been possibly our top D prospect. But I do hope he makes it and then becomes a great player for us.

Don't worry. Rass is a way better player than Sheahan. Rass was a better prospect when he was drafted. I don't recall reading anywhere that Sheahan was predicted more than a 3C. Rass will absolutely be a top 6 F, something Riley was never going to be.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Mantha is essentially Ericsson except he's a forward, much better skater, better passer, better shooter, better hands, better vision, etc. But hey, they're both big, so I guess they're "essentially" the same... Mantha is plenty aggressive, but decided to take boxing lessons this offseason to become more "aggressive"... He does need to work on his consistency for sure, but that goes for just about every young player in this league.

I hope Rasmussen develops into a better player than Mantha. I think Mantha will be a 30 goal, 60+ point producer. If Rasmussen tops that, I think every Wings fan wouldn't be thrilled. I'm rooting for the kid. I'm just not as optimistic as you and a few others...

How does saying one player doesn't have the same level of skill as another player mean that player isn't skilled? Mantha doesn't have close to the same level of skill as McDavid. Does that mean that Mantha is not skilled?

I'm sure Rasmussen will be a solid top 6 winger, I just think Veleno will be more valuable, and I don't see him surpassing Mantha. We'll have to wait and see, but I'm really looking forward to watch all of these kids develop over the next few seasons.

Again, I already mentioned that... Skill + skating, otherwise he's the forward Ericsson

Mantha is not aggressive in any sense of the word. He's a good player and has the tools to be a better player. But, as high as his ceiling is, he doesn't look like a player with the tools to reach that ceiling. Ras is the exact opposite in that sense. Has all the tools to quickly climb.

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I'm wishing all the best for Rasmussen, and hope he plays in Detroit this season...BUT I am also hoping he isn't just a bigger version of Riley Sheahan. With our need on D we could've went with others at #9 Like Cal Foote or Liljegren instead. Either one may have been possibly our top D prospect. But I do hope he makes it and then becomes a great player for us.

Comparing Ras to Sheahan? Might as well compare Zadina to Hudler.

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I don't know man, maybe I'm being self serving here but...I don't get what's not to like about Rasmussen NOW.  At the time he was drafted, sure.  There were other, potentially better, options still on the table.  I was admittedly very unhappy about the pick.  But nothing this past year has thrown up any red flags.  MAYBE injuries or something, but in terms of play how could anyone conclude after the year he's had that he's at least a more legitimate #9 pick than we thought he was? 

If Rasmussen turns about to be the next David Backes is anybody around here going to complain that he's not "skilled" enough?  I mean, I thought the pick was a stretch, but there is more than one way to be a good player in the NHL.  I'd be thrilled if Ras was big, mean, and moderately capable offensively. 

This may or may not be directed at me, but I'm going to respond anyway because a lot of things seem to be being taken out of context... I believe there is a ton to like about Rasmussen. After all, he is one of our top prospects. Some seem to take offense though that others don't see him as our undisputed number one prospect. He wouldn't have been my pick at 9th overall a year ago, but I agree that since then, he has more than proven himself.

I agree with the Backes comparison, and I too would be thrilled if Ras developed into a Backes type player. I'm not sure if he'll ever be as "mean" as Backes, but if he goes to the net and scores close to the number of dirty goals that Backes has scored over the course of his career, he'll be a huge contributor on this team.

8 hours ago, Buppy said:

But you didn't say "not the same". You said "not close". Relative to Mantha. Saying it relative to McDavid or another elite player would have been different. There's a lot of room below elite where a player can be both "good" and "not close" at the same time. Not so much with Mantha, as even you admit he's not even close to elite skill.

Again, I get your clarification. I'm just saying your previous, exaggerated, comment gave a more negative impression than you seemingly intended, particularly coming from you when you've hardly passed up an opportunity to deride the pick. 

That's because I don't think Rasmussen has displayed close to the level of skill as Mantha thus far in their respective careers. Could he get there? Maybe. But personally, I don't see it. That doesn't in any way indicate that I don't think Rasmussen is skilled. He's obviously very skilled, but not at the level as Mantha in my opinion.

5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Again, I already mentioned that... Skill + skating, otherwise he's the forward Ericsson

Mantha is not aggressive in any sense of the word. He's a good player and has the tools to be a better player. But, as high as his ceiling is, he doesn't look like a player with the tools to reach that ceiling. Ras is the exact opposite in that sense. Has all the tools to quickly climb.

And I responded to that... Mantha to Ericsson is the worst comparison I've ever heard. They literally have none of the same qualities, except being big, and even then, Mantha is bigger. Might as well compare Zadina to Hudler... which is actually a much more favorable comparison in my opinion...

I agree that Rasmussen has the attitude / work ethic that will likely propel him to exceed expectations. I just don't think he'll be better than Veleno (where this conversation originated from) or Mantha (where this conversation somehow ended up).

I've said that I think Rasmussen should make the team out of camp this season. I've said that I expect him to be a top six winger, capable of scoring 30 goals (60 points), and people still think I'm being too hard on him, or "deriding the pick"...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

This may or may not be directed at me, but I'm going to respond anyway because a lot of things seem to be being taken out of context... I believe there is a ton to like about Rasmussen. After all, he is one of our top prospects. Some seem to take offense though that others don't see him as our undisputed number one prospect. He wouldn't have been my pick at 9th overall a year ago, but I agree that since then, he has more than proven himself.

I agree with the Backes comparison, and I too would be thrilled if Ras developed into a Backes type player. I'm not sure if he'll ever be as "mean" as Backes, but if he goes to the net and scores close to the number of dirty goals that Backes has scored over the course of his career, he'll be a huge contributor on this team.

That's because I don't think Rasmussen has displayed close to the level of skill as Mantha thus far in their respective careers. Could he get there? Maybe. But personally, I don't see it. That doesn't in any way indicate that I don't think Rasmussen is skilled. He's obviously very skilled, but not at the level as Mantha in my opinion.

And I responded to that... Mantha to Ericsson is the worst comparison I've ever heard. They literally have none of the same qualities, except being big, and even then, Mantha is bigger. Might as well compare Zadina to Hudler... which is actually a much more favorable comparison in my opinion...

I agree that Rasmussen has the attitude / work ethic that will likely propel him to exceed expectations. I just don't think he'll be better than Veleno (where this conversation originated from) or Mantha (where this conversation somehow ended up).

I've said that I think Rasmussen should make the team out of camp this season. I've said that I expect him to be a top six winger, capable of scoring 30 goals (60 points), and people still think I'm being too hard on him, or "deriding the pick"...

I'm comparing Mantha to Ericsson because they're both big physically, and they both don't use that size to their advantage. Sure Ericsson uses his reach advantage defensively, and Mantha is pretty decent at using his wingspan to protect the puck, but both these guys play like they're 6ft 190 lbs. Heck, Hicketts has more grit/tenacity in his 5'8" frame than all 12'9" of Mantha/Ericsson put together. That's the reason I compare to E. Hope that makes sense.

Zadina/Hudler is a good comparison in that they play the same position, are both Czech, and both can shoot. Otherwise I don't see a ton of similarity in play style. Comparing Ras to Sheahan is ok, they play a comparable game. Ras is just so far ahead better than Sheahan already.

"People think I'm being too hard on him"

Who? Am I being too hard on Mantha? I still think Mantha is a good player, as I assume you do Rasmussen. Were just talking. I think Ras is going to leap frog Mantha, you don't. Time will tell.

Veleno I haven't watched play enough to feel confident passing any kind of judgement on.

Edited August 7, 2018 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[Dabura 12,232]

18 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Second bold: PICK ONE SWITZERLAND (join me on the Rasmussen-side. Together we can rule the galaxy)

Mantha and Rasmussen suck. Zadina is the future.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Mantha and Rasmussen suck. Zadina is the future.

*Player 3 has entered the match*

[krsmith17 7,191]

10 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I'm comparing Mantha to Ericsson because they're both big physically, and they both don't use that size to their advantage. Sure Ericsson uses his reach advantage defensively, and Mantha is pretty decent at using his wingspan to protect the puck, but both these guys play like they're 6ft 190 lbs. Heck, Hicketts has more grit/tenacity in his 5'8" frame than all 12'9" of Mantha/Ericsson put together. That's the reason I compare to E. Hope that makes sense.

Zadina/Hudler is a good comparison in that they play the same position, are both Czech, and both can shoot. Otherwise I don't see a ton of similarity in play style. Comparing Ras to Sheahan is ok, they play a comparable game. Ras is just so far ahead better than Sheahan already.

"People think I'm being too hard on him"

Who? Am I being too hard on Mantha? I still think Mantha is a good player, as I assume you do Rasmussen. Were just talking. I think Ras is going to leap frog Mantha, you don't. Time will tell.

Veleno I haven't watched play enough to feel confident passing any kind of judgement on.

Fair enough. I'd love to see Mantha play a physical, in-your-face style of game, but I don't think it's essential for him to be successful. Plenty of big players play a finesse style of game and rarely use their size to impose their will on the opposition. As long as Mantha is putting up points on the regular and gains a little more consistency, I'll be happy. And I think he will.

The "people think I'm being too hard on him" comment was more so directed at Buppy and his "you've hardly passed up an opportunity to deride the pick" comment...

Regarding the bold... yes, I think Rasmussen is a very good player and a great prospect. I'm excited to see what he can do this season in Detroit.

[Buppy 1,720]

10 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

That's because I don't think Rasmussen has displayed close to the level of skill as Mantha thus far in their respective careers. Could he get there? Maybe. But personally, I don't see it. That doesn't in any way indicate that I don't think Rasmussen is skilled. He's obviously very skilled, but not at the level as Mantha in my opinion.

... and people still think I'm being too hard on him, or "deriding the pick"...

Which is it, "not close to" or "not quite as"? Or are you going to try to say they mean the same thing? 

To me, the first would imply someone on the level of Abby or Sheahan at best. Certainly doesn't suggest 30g/60p potential when that's right around what you usually suggest for Mantha. Plus saying he was only the 3rd or 4th best player on his team, and the frequently repeated criticism of drafting him...

Do you really not see how all of that could be taken as you having a notably negative opinion of him?

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 hours ago, Buppy said:

Which is it, "not close to" or "not quite as"? Or are you going to try to say they mean the same thing? 

To me, the first would imply someone on the level of Abby or Sheahan at best. Certainly doesn't suggest 30g/60p potential when that's right around what you usually suggest for Mantha. Plus saying he was only the 3rd or 4th best player on his team, and the frequently repeated criticism of drafting him...

Do you really not see how all of that could be taken as you having a notably negative opinion of him?

I don't think Rasmussen has displayed "close to" the level of play that Mantha did when he was the same age. Remember those stats I brought up from their draft+1 seasons? I also don't think Rasmussen will be "quite as" good as Mantha over the course of their careers.

I've already said that I believe Rasmussen will be a top six winger. I just see Mantha as our 1LW (30 goals, 60 points) and Rasmussen as our 2LW (25 goals, 50 points). I'd love to be wrong on this. But if I am, I hope it's because Ras exceeds expectations, not because Mantha falls short.

He was the 3rd or 4th best player on his junior team this past season. The stats are there to back this up. I'm not saying that the 2 or 3 players that were better than him, will go on to have more successful careers (I doubt any of them will), but they did have more productive seasons. Plain and simple.

What does thinking we could have / should have drafted a different player have to do with where I project Rasmussen? It has nothing to do with anything... I think Rasmussen will be a top six winger that needs to play with players that can drive offense. I think Vilardi will be a top six (maybe top line) winger that drives offense. The fact that we didn't draft Vilardi, doesn't change how I feel about Rasmussen in any way.

So no, I don't see how any of this could be taken as me having a "notably negative opinion of Rasmussen". I don't at all. You spend way too much time trying to read between the lines and pick out one thing I say, and disregard everything else I'm saying...

[krsmith17 7,191]

Red Wings just released the Prospect Tournament Roster...

11    Filip Zadina                      RW                              Halifax (QMJHL)                          2018 1st round (6th overall)
21    Dennis Cholowski            D                                 Portland (WHL)                            2016 1st round (20th overall)
27    Michael Rasmussen        C                                 Tri-City (WHL)                              2017 1st round (9th overall)
29    Vili Saarijarvi                    D                                 Grand Rapids (AHL)                    2015 3rd round (73rd overall)
34    Patrik Rybar                     G                                 Hradec Kralove (Czech)              Signed by Red Wings, 5/21/18
36    Kaden Fulcher                 G                                 Hamilton (OHL)                            Signed by Red Wings, 10/3/17
46    Lane Zablocki                  RW                              Victoria (WHL)                              2017 3rd round (79th overall)
48    Givani Smith                    RW                              Kitchener (OHL)                           2016 2nd round (46th overall)
49    Axel Holmstrom               C                                 Grand Rapids (AHL)                     2014 7th round (196th overall)
50    Reilly Webb                     D                                 Saginaw (OHL)                             2017 6th round (164th overall)
53    Jordan Topping               LW                               Tri-City (WHL)                               Signed by Griffins, 7/20/18
58    David Pope                      LW                               Omaha (NCHC)                           2013 4th round (109th overall)
62    Trevor Hamilton               D                                 Penn State (B10)                          Signed by Griffins, 3/28/18
63    Jared McIsaac                 D                                 Halifax (QMJHL)                           2018 2nd round (36th overall)
64    Zach Gallant                    C                                 Peterborough (OHL)                     2017 3rd round (83rd overall)
67    Brady Gilmour                 C                                 Saginaw (OHL)                              2017 7th round (193rd overall)
68    Justin Fazio                     G                                 Sarnia (OHL)                                 Free Agent Invitee
70    Christoffer Ehn                C                                 Frolunda (SHL)                              2013 4th round (109th overall)
73    Marcus Crawford             D                                 Saginaw (OHL)                             Signed by Griffins, 4/3/18
74    Cole Fraser                      D                                 Peterborough (OHL)                     2017 5th round (131st overall)
76    Nicolas Guay                   C                                 Drummondville (QMJHL)              Free Agent Invitee
81    Trevor Yates                    C                                 Cornell (ECAC)                             Signed by Griffins, 3/28/18
89    Pavel Gogolev                 RW                              Peterborough (OHL)                     Free Agent Invitee
90    Joe Veleno                      C                                 Drummondville (QMJHL)               2018 1st round (30th overall)
92    Maxim Golod                   LW                               Erie (OHL)                                    Free Agent Invitee
94    Alec Regula                     D                                 London (OHL)                               2018 3rd round (67th overall)

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

Is this the best looking stable of prospects we've seen in 20 years? Serious question. Not meant to be rhetorical either.