Dabura 11,951 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, krsmith17 said: Those hands.. That release... Limited scoring upside! Career middle-sixer! 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, Dabura said: Limited scoring upside! Career middle-sixer! Yeah, bunch of idiots on the Network trying to justify why he dropped all the way to 30th overall. He was in Bob McKenzie's Pre-Season Top 5 last year. He was consistently in everyone's top 10-15 all season. He drops and all of a sudden he's likely a "3rd line center"... You know who else was projected to be a "middle six center with limited offensive upside"? Dylan mother f***ing Larkin! That's who! 1 1 F.Michael and Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 11,951 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, krsmith17 said: Yeah, bunch of idiots on the Network trying to justify why he dropped all the way to 30th overall. He was in Bob McKenzie's Pre-Season Top 5 last year. He was consistently in everyone's top 10-15 all season. He drops and all of a sudden he's likely a "3rd line center"... You know who else was projected to be a "middle six center with limited offensive upside"? Dylan mother f***ing Larkin! That's who! PREACH! 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
F.Michael 4,504 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Yeah, bunch of idiots on the Network trying to justify why he dropped all the way to 30th overall. He was in Bob McKenzie's Pre-Season Top 5 last year. He was consistently in everyone's top 10-15 all season. He drops and all of a sudden he's likely a "3rd line center"... You know who else was projected to be a "middle six center with limited offensive upside"? Dylan mother f***ing Larkin! That's who! Apparently 'they' didn't see the D-Boss video on YouTube... 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 2,562 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 40 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Those hands.. That release... Yup. He sure dangled the hell out of no one there. Pretty standard looking hands and release to me. Pretty sure if Veleno fed the correct change into a vending machine you'd be singing his praises and handing him the #2 C postion with the Red Wings in 2020. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: Yup. He sure dangled the hell out of no one there. Pretty standard looking hands and release to me. Pretty sure if Veleno fed the correct change into a vending machine you'd be singing his praises and handing him the #2 C postion with the Red Wings in 2020. You really take issue with me hyping Veleno don't you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 2,562 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: You really take issue with me hyping Veleno don't you? I think there has to be a real reason he fell in the draft. You don't. Except I trust the opinion of all the GMs and their amatuer scouting staffs who passed on him more than I trust you opinion that they were wrong. It's nothing personal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 11,951 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 26 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: I think there has to be a real reason he fell in the draft. Veleno is lazy and he sucks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 2,562 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, Dabura said: Veleno is lazy and he sucks. In lieu of some sort of real explanation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 55 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: I think there has to be a real reason he fell in the draft. You don't. Except I trust the opinion of all the GMs and their amatuer scouting staffs who passed on him more than I trust you opinion that they were wrong. It's nothing personal. To be fair, just because there's a reason doesn't mean it's a good one. Why are any players who turn out great taken later in the draft than they should've been? It just happens. Folks praised the pick, he showed well in camp, he's currently dominating his respective league. I think It's alright to be optimistic at this point. 1 1 krsmith17 and Prolix reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 2,562 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said: To be fair, just because there's a reason doesn't mean it's a good one. Why are any players who turn out great taken later in the draft than they should've been? It just happens. Folks praised the pick, he showed well in camp, he's currently dominating his respective league. I think It's alright to be optimistic at this point. Sure it is. Just not blindingly so. The knock on him was his shot I believe. I'll wait to see how he gets along vs pro goalies before I start gloating and calling other analysts "idiots" for trying to explain why he fell in the draft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonas Mahonas 1,621 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said: I think there has to be a real reason he fell in the draft. You don't. Except I trust the opinion of all the GMs and their amatuer scouting staffs who passed on him more than I trust you opinion that they were wrong. It's nothing personal. It's his skating. Larkin is a jet with unlimited fuel. Veleno is a Cessna. We will see if he puts in the lower body work or not over the next couple of summers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: Sure it is. Just not blindingly so. The knock on him was his shot I believe. I'll wait to see how he gets along vs pro goalies before I start gloating and calling other analysts "idiots" for trying to explain why he fell in the draft. I don't see how It's blind. He's a prospect dominating his peers, that's kind of the evidence you look for. Do you not think if the draft was redone right now he would be taken higher? If we're just going to assume everybody but us knows better and not speculate with the evidence available to us about prospects, we might as well never discuss them at all. What fun is that? 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HoweFan 74 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 For whatever reason Velano didn't have a particularly outstanding draft year. That's why he, rightfully so, fell to number 30. I think this year he has more than redeemed himself. If the draft were held today I don't think he would fall that far. We lucked out. be happy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 Veleno hype: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 2 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said: I think there has to be a real reason he fell in the draft. You don't. Except I trust the opinion of all the GMs and their amatuer scouting staffs who passed on him more than I trust you opinion that they were wrong. It's nothing personal. I do think there's a real reason he fell in the draft. The reason? 20 GM's are idiots... 1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said: Sure it is. Just not blindingly so. The knock on him was his shot I believe. I'll wait to see how he gets along vs pro goalies before I start gloating and calling other analysts "idiots" for trying to explain why he fell in the draft. Who's blindingly hyping Veleno? I'm not blind *******. I can see just fine... Yes, the knock on him was his shot, but playmaking centers with elite skating don't need to rely on a great shot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted December 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said: To be fair, just because there's a reason doesn't mean it's a good one. Why are any players who turn out great taken later in the draft than they should've been? It just happens. Folks praised the pick, he showed well in camp, he's currently dominating his respective league. I think It's alright to be optimistic at this point. Barzal and Boeser dropped in 2015 to 16 and 23 respectively, for good reason... GM's are idiots... Players drop every year in the draft. Veleno dropped big time. We lucked out getting him. He's exceeded expectations since being drafted. People are excited about him as a prospect. That upsets@The 91 of Ryans... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonas Mahonas 1,621 Report post Posted December 14, 2018 1 hour ago, krsmith17 said: Barzal and Boeser dropped in 2015 to 16 and 23 respectively, for good reason... GM's are idiots... Players drop every year in the draft. Veleno dropped big time. We lucked out getting him. He's exceeded expectations since being drafted. People are excited about him as a prospect. That upsets@The 91 of Ryans... When I was a freshman I college, I could kick ass on high school sophomores and juniors too. I want him up to see how freshman boy plays against the alumni. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 7,653 Report post Posted December 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said: When I was a freshman I college, I could kick ass on high school sophomores and juniors too. I want him up to see how freshman boy plays against the alumni. I said the same thing about Michael Rasmussen. I was wrong. Plus, Veleno is one of the younger guys in that draft class. Still only 18. So while he's got more experience than the younger guys in the league, he's really not that much older. Developmental paths are tricky. Two years ago, after his year at St. Cloud State (draft year plus one), Cholowski was considered a bust. He then dominated Juniors the following year and the rest is history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 2,562 Report post Posted December 14, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, krsmith17 said: Barzal and Boeser dropped in 2015 to 16 and 23 respectively, for good reason... GM's are idiots... Players drop every year in the draft. Veleno dropped big time. We lucked out getting him. He's exceeded expectations since being drafted. People are excited about him as a prospect. That upsets@The 91 of Ryans... Alright alright. I give. Totally wasn't trying to jurco you around. I was just trying to rekindl some decent debate on here. I think you guys just smithed my point a little. I really am pulkining for Veleno to do well. I was just sheanan silly. Rock n' Sproul boys. Rock n' Sproul. Edited December 14, 2018 by The 91 of Ryans Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted December 14, 2018 43 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: Alright alright. I give. Totally wasn't trying to jurco you around. I was just trying to rekindl some decent debate on here. I think you guys just smithed my point a little. I really am pulkining for Veleno to do well. I was just sheanan silly. Rock n' Sproul boys. Rock n' Sproul. Ooh I get it now... Because some once highly regarded prospects flamed out, that means we can't or shouldn't get excited about any high end prospects again... The ol' frankgrimes mentality... Never have high expectations and you'll never be disappointed... err you'll be pleasantly surprised or some s***... Veleno is not Jurco or Pulkkinen or any of those other bums. Veleno is a legit high end prospect. I think he's a 2C with 1C potential. The biggest thing that separates him from any of the guys you mentioned above... inner drive. He works his ass off and always wants to find ways to improve his game... Not to mention, he's an elite skater, and a very good puck handler and passer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 7,653 Report post Posted December 14, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said: Alright alright. I give. Totally wasn't trying to jurco you around. I was just trying to rekindl some decent debate on here. I think you guys just smithed my point a little. I really am pulkining for Veleno to do well. I was just sheanan silly. Rock n' Sproul boys. Rock n' Sproul. Isn't knee-jerk undervaluing prospects and players just as intellectually lazy as knee-jerk overvaluing them? If you think the odds are that Veleno will end up like Sheahan, Smith, Jurco, Pulkkinen, or Sproul why not explain your rationale? Your current reasoning that "Veleno won't be that good because other guys weren't good in the past" seems too trite for someone clever enough to be meta while also being incendiary. Step your game up...like Joe Veleno has. Edited December 14, 2018 by kipwinger 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 2,562 Report post Posted December 14, 2018 16 minutes ago, kipwinger said: Isn't knee-jerk undervaluing prospects and players just as intellectually lazy as knee-jerk overvaluing them? If you think the odds are that Veleno will end up like Sheahan, Smith, Jurco, Pulkkinen, or Sproul why not explain your rationale? Your current reasoning that "Veleno won't be that good because other guys weren't good in the past" seems too trite for someone clever enough to be meta while also being incendiary. Step your game up...like Joe Veleno has. I'm not undervaluing Veleno at all. This whole thing started with a joke about his stupid shootout goal in a training camp for a team he probably won't make - which his biggest supporters here agree with by the way. THEN I asked a legit question which no one could answer: "why did he slide so hard in the draft" ANYWAY you and @krsmith17 were both wrong about Rasmussen so why should I listen to either of you on this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 7,653 Report post Posted December 14, 2018 Just now, The 91 of Ryans said: I'm not undervaluing Veleno at all. This whole thing started with a joke about his stupid shootout goal in a training camp for a team he probably won't make - which his biggest supporters here agree with by the way. THEN I asked a legit question which no one could answer: "why did he slide so hard in the draft" ANYWAY you and @krsmith17 were both wrong about Rasmussen so why should I listen to either of you on this? Didn't suggest that you should listen to me. I also have no idea why he slid on draft day. I guess my question would be, what does his draft position have to do with anything? You're not dumb, so surely you'll agree that players outperform their draft positions all the time. So the bigger questions are, does Joe Veleno have the necessary skills to be one of those players? And, based on his performance since the draft is there any reason to believe he's already moving in that direction. I think the answer to both questions is "yes". 2 Prolix and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 2,562 Report post Posted December 14, 2018 1 minute ago, kipwinger said: Didn't suggest that you should listen to me. I also have no idea why he slid on draft day. I guess my question would be, what does his draft position have to do with anything? You're not dumb, so surely you'll agree that players outperform their draft positions all the time. So the bigger questions are, does Joe Veleno have the necessary skills to be one of those players? And, based on his performance since the draft is there any reason to believe he's already moving in that direction. I think the answer to both questions is "yes". Sure there's reason to believe he'll outperform his draft position. There's also reason to believe that 2/3rds of the league's amateur scouts, who had probably seen him a lot, obviously had doubts about his ability to translate success in the Q to the pros. I know he's been ripping it up right now post-draft, so we'll see. My point is that we'll see. But I suppose I should stop being a jerk and just let everyone enjoy his shootout goal in that WJC training camp exhibition game. And I really don't need to know anyone's thoughts on why he slid in the draft. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
