ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: No kidding. Apparently, amidst that hell storm of injuries (Zetterback, Dastyuk) your boy Babcock ordered Holland to get him a veteran he could abuse in front of the kids (Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, Sheahan) to scare them and the spineless jag complied. Still the worst Red Wings trade of the salary cap era. Legwand wasn't as bad as people like to remember. And we did need center-men. Just sucks we gave up Jarnkrok Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 3,019 Report post Posted January 31, 2020 Just now, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Legwand wasn't as bad as people like to remember. And we did need center-men. Just sucks we gave up Jarnkrok He wasn't bad at all. Just pointless in the context of the season. But that streak had to continue I guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: He wasn't bad at all. Just pointless in the context of the season. But that streak had to continue I guess. The streak! The streak is our master. The streak chooses who will go and who will stay. 1 _SP_ reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 3,019 Report post Posted January 31, 2020 Just now, ChristopherReevesLegs said: The streak! The streak is our master. The streak chooses who will go and who will stay. QFT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Legwand wasn't as bad as people like to remember. And we did need center-men. Just sucks we gave up Jarnkrok We were literally in danger of having Joakim ******* Anderson as our #1 center if not for that trade. Though in hindsight, if that trade didn't happen and the streak ended there, imagine how much further along we'd be now. Hell, we'd have probably bottomed out in the McJesus draft. Edited January 31, 2020 by marcaractac Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, marcaractac said: We were literally in danger of having Joakim ******* Anderson as our #1 center if not for that trade. Though in hindsight, if that trade didn't happen and the streak ended there, imagine how much further along we'd be now. Hell, we'd have probably bottomed out in the McJesus draft. Streak ends. Team bottoms out. Holland fired. Yzerman takes over and never leaves for Tampa. Yzerman trades young Tuzzi for Brendan Perlini. Never acquires Eric Comrie. f*** that timeline Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted January 31, 2020 15 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Streak ends. Team bottoms out. Holland fired. Yzerman takes over and never leaves for Tampa. Yzerman trades young Tuzzi for Brendan Perlini. Never acquires Eric Comrie. f*** that timeline Yzerman was already in Tampa at this point me son. But yeah, f*** that timeline because we'd prob never have gotten Stevie back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, marcaractac said: Yzerman was already in Tampa at this point me son. But yeah, f*** that timeline because we'd prob never have gotten Stevie back. So Jim Nill? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted January 31, 2020 Just now, ChristopherReevesLegs said: So Jim Nill? Sure. He had the balls to trade for Seguin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, marcaractac said: Sure. He had the balls to trade for Seguin. Miss me some Chiarelli Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted January 31, 2020 If Jarnkrok was that good, he would've been brought up to fill the void at center. He wasn't, that's what facilitated the trade for Legwand. People wanna call that such a terrible trade, but if Jarnkrok was better than Legwand (he wasn't) it wouldn't have been made. It wasn't a big loss at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said: If Jarnkrok was that good, he would've been brought up to fill the void at center. He wasn't, that's what facilitated the trade for Legwand. In retrospect he probably should have been called up to fill the void at center. Wings never gave him that opportunity. He went on to score 9 pts in 12 games for Nashville that season. 7 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said: People wanna call that such a terrible trade, but if Jarnkrok was better than Legwand (he wasn't) it wouldn't have been made. IDK, like I said, Jarnkrok went on to have 9 pts in 12 games for Nashville. Legwand went on to have 11 in 21 games for us. Would Jarnkrok have done the same for us on a callup? I can't say, but he did fall back to earth during his next season in Nash Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said: If Jarnkrok was that good, he would've been brought up to fill the void at center. He wasn't, that's what facilitated the trade for Legwand. People wanna call that such a terrible trade, but if Jarnkrok was better than Legwand (he wasn't) it wouldn't have been made. It wasn't a big loss at all. He was also only 22 at the time of the trade. At a time when we "overriped" every single prospect. It was a terrible trade at the time and in hindsight. 44 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: In retrospect he probably should have been called up to fill the void at center. Wings never gave him that opportunity. He went on to score 9 pts in 12 games for Nashville that season. IDK, like I said, Jarnkrok went on to have 9 pts in 12 games for Nashville. Legwand went on to have 11 in 21 games for us. Would Jarnkrok have done the same for us on a callup? I can't say, but he did fall back to earth during his next season in Nash Legwand - 11 points for the Red Wings Jarnkrok - 176 points for Nashville There was also a 2nd round pick lost in that trade, which could have been another player... Edited January 31, 2020 by krsmith17 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted January 31, 2020 18 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: He was also only 22 at the time of the trade. At a time when we "overriped" every single prospect. It was a terrible trade at the time and in hindsight. Legwand - 11 points for the Red Wings Jarnkrok - 176 points for Nashville There was also a 2nd round pick lost in that trade, which could have been another player... 176 points over 6 seasons. That's 30 points a season. Bottom 6 numbers. We have enough of those already. Like I said, not a big loss. And that trade wasnt made with the expectation that Legwand would produce as many points in his part season that Jarnkrok would over his entire career. That's an unfair comparison. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 31, 2020 9 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said: 176 points over 6 seasons. That's 30 points a season. Bottom 6 numbers. We have enough of those already. Like I said, not a big loss. And that trade wasnt made with the expectation that Legwand would produce as many points in his part season that Jarnkrok would over his entire career. That's an unfair comparison. That's fair. It just sucks cause we could REALLY freaking use another competent young center right now, and Jarny is on pace for 50 pts this year. He would probably immediately be our 2C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 31, 2020 26 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said: 176 points over 6 seasons. That's 30 points a season. Bottom 6 numbers. We have enough of those already. Like I said, not a big loss. And that trade wasnt made with the expectation that Legwand would produce as many points in his part season that Jarnkrok would over his entire career. That's an unfair comparison. We have a TON of bottom six forwards. None of which are as good as Jarnkrok. I'm pretty sure he's also the only right-handed forward we've drafted since Steve Yzerman... No need to check that. It's true... Seriously though, this team could definitely use a Jarnkrok right now. Huge upgrade over Filppula / Nielsen... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted February 1, 2020 1 hour ago, krsmith17 said: We have a TON of bottom six forwards. None of which are as good as Jarnkrok. I'm pretty sure he's also the only right-handed forward we've drafted since Steve Yzerman... No need to check that. It's true... Seriously though, this team could definitely use a Jarnkrok right now. Huge upgrade over Filppula / Nielsen... How many points would he have on this roster tho? Not many. He's not a game changer at all. Larkin, Rasmussen, and Veleno would make him completely expendable in the long run. Sure, he might put up more than Flip and Frans now, but what difference would that really make? He was going to be here during the dark times anyway (if he stuck around at all). Jarnkrok wouldn't have kept the team competitive any longer then they were, wouldn't have kept them out of the cellar, wouldn't have prevented or shortened the rebuild, and would have been an inconsequential player by the time the team was competitive again anyway. So what did we really lose? A run of the mill player who would have been here during the gap between competitiveness. Still don't see how this was a loss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted February 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said: How many points would he have on this roster tho? Not many. He's not a game changer at all. Larkin, Rasmussen, and Veleno would make him completely expendable in the long run. Sure, he might put up more than Flip and Frans now, but what difference would that really make? He was going to be here during the dark times anyway (if he stuck around at all). Jarnkrok wouldn't have kept the team competitive any longer then they were, wouldn't have kept them out of the cellar, wouldn't have prevented or shortened the rebuild, and would have been an inconsequential player by the time the team was competitive again anyway. So what did we really lose? A run of the mill player who would have been here during the gap between competitiveness. Still don't see how this was a loss. On this roster now? I don't know, but he would be one of our better players. He'd be a good stop gap before Veleno and Rasmussen make the team. He could also play wing. Yes, he would put up more points than Filppula and Nielsen now, and for the next 7+ years. If he were to become expendable, he would net us a decent return. It's not losing Jarnkrok that I think was a big deal, it's that we lost Jarnkrok, and a 2nd round pick for a few weeks of a 35 year old player... to keep the streak alive. It was a terrible trade. 1 The 91 of Ryans reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted February 1, 2020 40 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: On this roster now? I don't know, but he would be one of our better players. He'd be a good stop gap before Veleno and Rasmussen make the team. He could also play wing. Yes, he would put up more points than Filppula and Nielsen now, and for the next 7+ years. If he were to become expendable, he would net us a decent return. It's not losing Jarnkrok that I think was a big deal, it's that we lost Jarnkrok, and a 2nd round pick for a few weeks of a 35 year old player... to keep the streak alive. It was a terrible trade. No one would argue that Holland ended up on the losing end of that deal. It was inevitable. He was bent over a barrel and every other GM knew it. He had no chance to win any trade he made that day and any other GM would have lost a similar trade under similar circumstances, but it was still a trade he had to make. The biggest argument has always been that KH shouldn't have made the trade at all and let the streak end. But what would any other GM have done in the same situation? If you asked the 30 other GMs: If you- A. Have a team decimated with injuries and you have no one to center your top 2 lines. B. Are in the playoff hunt, but are currently on the outside looking in. C. Have made the playoffs 20+ years in a row. Do you trade- A. A future 3C who can't even beat J. Andersson for a roster spot and who is going back to Sweden anyway. B. A 4th line/depth F. C. A 2nd round draft pick who never pans out. For- A. A career 2C, on an expiring contract, who is leading his team in points. B. A 5th round draft pick. I guarantee you that they all say they would make that trade. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted February 1, 2020 38 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said: No one would argue that Holland ended up on the losing end of that deal. It was inevitable. He was bent over a barrel and every other GM knew it. He had no chance to win any trade he made that day and any other GM would have lost a similar trade under similar circumstances, but it was still a trade he had to make. The biggest argument has always been that KH shouldn't have made the trade at all and let the streak end. But what would any other GM have done in the same situation? If you asked the 30 other GMs: If you- A. Have a team decimated with injuries and you have no one to center your top 2 lines. B. Are in the playoff hunt, but are currently on the outside looking in. C. Have made the playoffs 20+ years in a row. Do you trade- A. A future 3C who can't even beat J. Andersson for a roster spot and who is going back to Sweden anyway. B. A 4th line/depth F. C. A 2nd round draft pick who never pans out. For- A. A career 2C, on an expiring contract, who is leading his team in points. B. A 5th round draft pick. I guarantee you that they all say they would make that trade. A lot of hindsight there. I can do that too... If you asked those same 30 GM's the same questions, knowing that they would be bounced in the first round of the playoffs, in 5 games to the Bruins, and the big trade acquisition would have 0 points in those 5 games. Most fans thought it was a bad trade at the time, and almost everyone looking at it in hindsight would say it was a very bad trade now. I guarantee you that they all say they would NOT make that trade... 1 The 91 of Ryans reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083 Report post Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: A lot of hindsight there. I can do that too... If you asked those same 30 GM's the same questions, knowing that they would be bounced in the first round of the playoffs, in 5 games to the Bruins, and the big trade acquisition would have 0 points in those 5 games. Most fans thought it was a bad trade at the time, and almost everyone looking at it in hindsight would say it was a very bad trade now. I guarantee you that they all say they would NOT make that trade... None of that is hindsight except for the 2nd round draft pick not panning out. The rest was known at the time of the trade. And yes, even after hindsight, I think GM's would tell you that they would have made that trade under the exact same circumstances. Edited February 1, 2020 by Neomaxizoomdweebie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted February 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said: None of that is hindsight except for the 2nd round draft pick not panning out. The rest was known at the time of the trade. "A future 3C" was not "known". 6 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said: And yes, even after hindsight, I think GM's would tell you that they would have made that trade under the exact same circumstances. There are a lot of dumb GM's that make a lot of dumb trades, but I think very few would turn down a do-over on this one. How can you say, in hindsight, that was a good trade? I can't understand the logic... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted February 2, 2020 On 1/31/2020 at 2:48 PM, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Legwand wasn't as bad as people like to remember. And we did need center-men. Just sucks we gave up Jarnkrok Please don't get nuqvististhefuture started on this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
F.Michael 4,590 Report post Posted February 3, 2020 On 1/31/2020 at 1:01 PM, marcaractac said: Sure. He had the brains balls to trade for Seguin. Chiarelli got bent over a barrel with that trade...Isn't there a law out there that doesn't allow special needs adults to be taken advantage of? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted February 3, 2020 4 hours ago, marcaractac said: Please don't get nuqvististhefuture started on this Dont bring me into your s*** Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
