2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread, Pt. 2 - What's the Yzerplan?

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

 

There just isnt room for ufa right now

[krsmith17 7,191]

29 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Probably not but I don’t know how many contending teams would sign him for 7 years with the issues he’s been dealing with, maybe Montreal? Can’t think of anyone else ... and yes if we got him I can’t see him being moved but if we signed him for 4 years let’s say and year 4 it’s clear we won’t make the playoffs provided he doesn’t pull a green and is hurt we’d easily get a nice return back 

i do agree that we’re a bad team but I also think we’re not as bad as our record stated , I think our coach is a problem and we have a lot of good pieces , obviously goaltending will be an issue with Howard on the verge of retiring but say we got Karlsson we’d have Karlsson,hronek and green on the back end which isn’t too shabby and the obvious Bert mantha Larkin line that was on fire along with AA, maybe zadina and hirose? Nice prospects coming +this years draft but I mean I get what your saying , we won’t win a cup and last thing we want is Karlsson coming and getting us 10th overall next June rather than #3,2,1 

Any team that is serious about signing Karlsson will offer him 7 years. At 29 years old, he'll be looking for long-term stability, and he'll most certainly get it. If you don't think we'll be a legit playoff team in 4 years, what's the point in signing him in the first place? Or more importantly, why would Karlsson sign here?

We are a bad team, but we're a bad team on the rise. Blashill isn't as bad a coach as you and others make him out to be.

35 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

all depends what yzerman does this offseason , can’t really see anybody having interest in abdelkader were forced to keep him at least a few more seasons and then buying him out, at 5+ for Nielsen for another 3 years and 35 I don’t trading him is as easy as you might believe, we’d 100% have to eat salary and I’d be calling the gm that signed him but problem is they have enough bad contracts to deal with themselves 

Yes, we would have to retain salary on a Nielsen or Helm trade. Which is easy for a rebuilding team with cap space to do. Hence, easily tradable.

9 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

July 1:

Karlsson $10 mil AAV x 7 years
Nyquist $6 mil AAV x 5 years

Yes. Luckily Yzerman won't be the one handing out those contracts...

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

8 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

There just isnt room for ufa right now

Your right but we have dead weight in Daley,ericsson and I can’t see green,kronwall and witkowski being here in 2020 so we should have a ton of spaces looking ahead 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Any team that is serious about signing Karlsson will offer him 7 years. At 29 years old, he'll be looking for long-term stability, and he'll most certainly get it. If you don't think we'll be a legit playoff team in 4 years, what's the point in signing him in the first place? Or more importantly, why would Karlsson sign here?

We are a bad team, but we're a bad team on the rise. Blashill isn't as bad a coach as you and others make him out to be.

Yes, we would have to retain salary on a Nielsen or Helm trade. Which is easy for a rebuilding team with cap space to do. Hence, easily tradable.

Yes. Luckily Yzerman won't be the one handing out those contracts...

Probably right but I can’t see too many contending teams with room to sign him and I didn’t say I didn’t think we’d be competing for the playoffs in 4 years,just worse case scenario we don’t get in Karlsson who we got as a free asset can turn into a nice return for us come trade deadline, that’s all but assuming hronek keeps developing into a stud, cholowski gets 30-50 annually,we land trouba in 2020 , podkolzin at 6(yes I know some aren’t a fan) and other kids like zadina,veleno develop I do think we’d be a very competitive team in 3-4 years 

 

I do think we’re on the rise but I’m hoping for another disaster season if we have the same roster , 2020 draft is gonna be damn good , I think in 3-4 years we’ll be making noise(probably closer to 3) we’ll have to agree to disagree on blashill

 

who would want Nielsen though? Even at 3.5? Till 38 years old to get 30-35 pts a year , I can’t see too many teams calling up , again ken Holland is the guy I’d be calling right away

 

 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

2 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Your right but we have dead weight in Daley,ericsson and I can’t see green,kronwall and witkowski being here in 2020 so we should have a ton of spaces looking ahead 

Trouba, DeKeyser, Hronek, Cholowski, Lindstrom, McIsaac

 

Our blueline is starting to fill up as well.  We had Sulak bolt this summer due to the logjam.  We need to ditch Kronwall, Daley, Green, Ericsson, Helm, Abdelkader, and Nielsen BEFORE we think about adding.  The kids are having a hard enough time displacing our signed vets.  No reason to make it harder unless the acquisition is extremely favorable (Trouba).

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

23 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

July 1:

Karlsson $10 mil AAV x 7 years
Nyquist $6 mil AAV x 5 years

I think he knows this and will really fight at camp to earn his spot. Hope he earns it, but I'll be fine with him in GR.

Yes it’s funny cause of my username but I hope to god we stay away from Nyquist and I think with yzerman as gm now we will, we just have a ton of kids coming we can’t afford to give a spot away to Nyquist for 5 years, might even have to move AA at some point soon

mantha,bertuzzi,larkin ....hirose,zadina,Rasmussen,veleno,#6 pick,maybe a beecher/holmstrom etc.. in the second ,berggren , svechnikov if he ever pans out ... having Nyquist oh the 3rd for years 3-5 at 5 mill I don’t think would be a good move , hopefully sj resigns him so we get a 2nd

 

 

2 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Trouba, DeKeyser, Hronek, Cholowski, Lindstrom, McIsaac

 

Our blueline is starting to fill up as well.  We had Sulak bolt this summer due to the logjam.  We need to ditch Kronwall, Daley, Green, Ericsson, Helm, Abdelkader, and Nielsen BEFORE we think about adding.  The kids are having a hard enough time displacing our signed vets.  No reason to make it harder unless the acquisition is extremely favorable (Trouba).

Can’t see both lindstrom and mcisaac  in Detroit in 2020 , is mcisaac eligible for Grand Rapids next season? Can’t See both playing a single season in the ahl and moving up right away

kronwall,Daley,green,ericsson will be gone by 2020 100% regardless if they stay in Detroit next season so that’s not a problem 

[LeftWinger 4,963]

McIsaac is out due to shoulder surgery. I still offer up Lindstrom and a young gun for Trouba. My choice is Ras, but it may cost AA.

[krsmith17 7,191]

13 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Probably right but I can’t see too many contending teams with room to sign him and I didn’t say I didn’t think we’d be competing for the playoffs in 4 years,just worse case scenario we don’t get in Karlsson who we got as a free asset can turn into a nice return for us come trade deadline, that’s all but assuming hronek keeps developing into a stud, cholowski gets 30-50 annually,we land trouba in 2020 , podkolzin at 6(yes I know some aren’t a fan) and other kids like zadina,veleno develop I do think we’d be a very competitive team in 3-4 years 

I do think we’re on the rise but I’m hoping for another disaster season if we have the same roster , 2020 draft is gonna be damn good , I think in 3-4 years we’ll be making noise(probably closer to 3) we’ll have to agree to disagree on blashill

I'm confused... Do you want to sign Karlsson or not? Do you think Karlsson would make a positive impact or not? You say you want to sign him for 4 years max, but don't think we'll be contenders for 3-4 years... You also say you want to sign him, but you want a good pick in next year's draft...

Bottom line, Karlsson is not signing short term. There will be teams (better than Detroit) willing to pay huge money on a max, 7 year contract. It only takes one team.

If ALL of those things go right, we don't need Karlsson. There are big name free agents every single offseason. And most come with less risk than an injury riddled Karlsson. This is not the year to swing for the fences. Wait until we're one or two pieces away.

19 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

who would want Nielsen though? Even at 3.5? Till 38 years old to get 30-35 pts a year , I can’t see too many teams calling up , again ken Holland is the guy I’d be calling right away

$3.5M is a VERY reasonable contract for a 30-40 point 3rd line center. Again, it only takes one team to be interested, and at that price, there would be more than one. There obviously wouldn't be a huge return, but a mid round pick would be fine, just to free up the roster spot.

23 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Trouba, DeKeyser, Hronek, Cholowski, Lindstrom, McIsaac

Our blueline is starting to fill up as well.  We had Sulak bolt this summer due to the logjam.  We need to ditch Kronwall, Daley, Green, Ericsson, Helm, Abdelkader, and Nielsen BEFORE we think about adding.  The kids are having a hard enough time displacing our signed vets.  No reason to make it harder unless the acquisition is extremely favorable (Trouba).

I agree. And I think the philosophy begins to change with Yzerman. I believe he's going to get this team younger. No more being the oldest, highest paid, s***tiest team in the league...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

 

$3.5M is a VERY reasonable contract for a 30-40 point 3rd line center. Again, it only takes one team to be interested, and at that price, there would be more than one. There obviously wouldn't be a huge return, but a mid round pick would be fine, just to free up the roster spot.

Gotta ask. IF you don't want UFAs and you want to "free up a roster spot" by trading Nielsen, who are your 4 centers this year? And don't say Veleno, you predictable m*****f*****. 

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

23 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Gotta ask. IF you don't want UFAs and you want to "free up a roster spot" by trading Nielsen, who are your 4 centers this year? And don't say Veleno, you predictable m*****f*****. 

I don't want to trade Nielsen this summer. I want to trade Nielsen next summer. And yes, Veleno will be more than ready to take over by then, along with maybe whoever we pick 6th overall next weekend...

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

42 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

McIsaac is out due to shoulder surgery. I still offer up Lindstrom and a young gun for Trouba. My choice is Ras, but it may cost AA.

July 1 2020 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't want to trade Nielsen this summer. I want to trade Nielsen next summer. And yes, Veleno will be more than ready to take over by then, along with maybe whoever we pick 6th overall next weekend...

Ah yes. Gotcha. 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

33 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm confused... Do you want to sign Karlsson or not? Do you think Karlsson would make a positive impact or not? You say you want to sign him for 4 years max, but don't think we'll be contenders for 3-4 years... You also say you want to sign him, but you want a good pick in next year's draft...

Bottom line, Karlsson is not signing short term. There will be teams (better than Detroit) willing to pay huge money on a max, 7 year contract. It only takes one team.

If ALL of those things go right, we don't need Karlsson. There are big name free agents every single offseason. And most come with less risk than an injury riddled Karlsson. This is not the year to swing for the fences. Wait until we're one or two pieces away.

$3.5M is a VERY reasonable contract for a 30-40 point 3rd line center. Again, it only takes one team to be interested, and at that price, there would be more than one. There obviously wouldn't be a huge return, but a mid round pick would be fine, just to free up the roster spot.

I agree. And I think the philosophy begins to change with Yzerman. I believe he's going to get this team younger. No more being the oldest, highest paid, s***tiest team in the league...

I said I would sign him, of course he can make an impact on this team he’s one of the best defensemen in the league, easily still gonna get 60-75 pts yearly , just imagine a top 4 of ...

karlsson hronek

trouba cholowski

in 2 years this team would be turned around a lot quicker than anyone would think , I said 4 years max to be safe with the injury concerns I’d personally be willing to make it 7 cause if he’s hurt and can’t play it’ll just be franzen/zetterberg situation and we get cap relief but it’s not my money to spend .... but the downside like I said of landing a Karlsson would be most likely ******* up our 2020 draft lottery chances, all s*** to consider same as people who won’t stop yapping about trouba, we land trouba today we can likely say goodbye to a top 5 pick 

anyways it’s more likely than not he goes to Montreal or Tampa imo , he wants to win now best thing to do longterm is trouba 2020 and a top 3-5 pick just hard not to like the thought of Karlsson in a wings jersey 

Thing with Nielsen is he’s also 35 and gonna be 38 when the deal ends , that’s a big thing to think about, I don’t see him moving at this point though 

 

13 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't want to trade Nielsen this summer. I want to trade Nielsen next summer. And yes, Veleno will be more than ready to take over by then, along with maybe whoever we pick 6th overall next weekend...

But the 6th pick won’t play center :p 

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I said I would sign him, of course he can make an impact on this team he’s one of the best defensemen in the league, easily still gonna get 60-75 pts yearly , just imagine a top 4 of ...

karlsson hronek

trouba cholowski

in 2 years this team would be turned around a lot quicker than anyone would think , I said 4 years max to be safe with the injury concerns I’d personally be willing to make it 7 cause if he’s hurt and can’t play it’ll just be franzen/zetterberg situation and we get cap relief but it’s not my money to spend .... but the downside like I said of landing a Karlsson would be most likely ******* up our 2020 draft lottery chances, all s*** to consider same as people who won’t stop yapping about trouba, we land trouba today we can likely say goodbye to a top 5 pick 

anyways it’s more likely than not he goes to Montreal or Tampa imo , he wants to win now best thing to do longterm is trouba 2020 and a top 3-5 pick just hard not to like the thought of Karlsson in a wings jersey 

Yes, IF Karlsson can stay healthy, he would make a positive impact. Just not enough to get us over the hump in my opinion. And if we're committing huge money, long-term, there will be better options over the next few seasons.

Signing or not signing a player solely because we may or may not win the draft lottery a year from now is not smart. Look at where Chicago finished last season, and where they're drafting. Look at where Ottawa finished last season and where their pick ended up. 

16 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

 Thing with Nielsen is he’s also 35 and gonna be 38 when the deal ends , that’s a big thing to think about, I don’t see him moving at this point though 

Age won't play a huge factor for a team in contention, looking to add veteran depth down the middle.

I'd bet a lot of internet money that Nielsen doesn't finish this contract in Detroit...

18 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

But the 6th pick won’t play center :p 

You're probably right. With the emergence of Veleno next season, they may opt to play Cozens on the wing... :p

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

57 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yes, IF Karlsson can stay healthy, he would make a positive impact. Just not enough to get us over the hump in my opinion. And if we're committing huge money, long-term, there will be better options over the next few seasons.

Signing or not signing a player solely because we may or may not win the draft lottery a year from now is not smart. Look at where Chicago finished last season, and where they're drafting. Look at where Ottawa finished last season and where their pick ended up. 

Age won't play a huge factor for a team in contention, looking to add veteran depth down the middle.

I'd bet a lot of internet money that Nielsen doesn't finish this contract in Detroit...

You're probably right. With the emergence of Veleno next season, they may opt to play Cozens on the wing... :p

You can say the same thing about trouba at that point , He’d be a great addition but wouldn’t get us over the hump ... either pieces or both(yes I’m greedy) would be huge steps into getting us in that direction ... better options? I know your talking trouba but can’t see why we couldn’t have both , and not too many options better than erik Karlsson at d, I think it’s the injuries that are concerning you but I still think he’s a valuable player 

Chicago got beyond lucky , wouldn’t count on another 8-12 team falling into the top 3 back to back seasons , 2020 is a special draft and would do wonders for our team ,just thinking of adding lafraniere or one of the Swedish kids and potentially adding them to a podkolzin and beecher as well as veleno,zadina,Berggren and others up now the wings have the potential to be a power house real soon 

 

Hahaha internet money is the best money to bet , think if we’re gona move him the sooner the better , he pops 32 pts I can’t see too many teams wanting a 3.5 mill aging 36 yr old forward , hopefully I’ll be wrong 

from what I been seeing lately I noticed he’d probably be a wing anyways, cozens will look nice next to eichel  

[krsmith17 7,191]

15 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

You can say the same thing about trouba at that point , He’d be a great addition but wouldn’t get us over the hump ... either pieces or both(yes I’m greedy) would be huge steps into getting us in that direction ... better options? I know your talking trouba but can’t see why we couldn’t have both , and not too many options better than erik Karlsson at d, I think it’s the injuries that are concerning you but I still think he’s a valuable player 

Signing Trouba would be a completely different situation. Trouba is 4 years younger, doesn't come with the injury concerns, and would likely cost approximately $3.5M less. No, Trouba alone doesn't get us over the hump, but he's young enough that he will still be good enough to help us when we are ready to compete.

19 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Chicago got beyond lucky , wouldn’t count on another 8-12 team falling into the top 3 back to back seasons , 2020 is a special draft and would do wonders for our team ,just thinking of adding lafraniere or one of the Swedish kids and potentially adding them to a podkolzin and beecher as well as veleno,zadina,Berggren and others up now the wings have the potential to be a power house real soon

Umm you know that Carolina jumped from 11 to 2 the year before right? And Philadelphia jumped from 12 to 2 the year before that? It's literally already happened 3 years in a row... and has a good chance of happening any season...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Signing Trouba would be a completely different situation. Trouba is 4 years younger, doesn't come with the injury concerns, and would likely cost approximately $3.5M less. No, Trouba alone doesn't get us over the hump, but he's young enough that he will still be good enough to help us when we are ready to compete.

Umm you know that Carolina jumped from 11 to 2 the year before right? And Philadelphia jumped from 12 to 2 the year before that? It's literally already happened 3 years in a row... and has a good chance of happening any season...

By the time Larkin is the age that Yzerman won his first cup, Trouba will be in his mid 30s. Guys too old. We don't need more vets.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

28 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Signing Trouba would be a completely different situation. Trouba is 4 years younger, doesn't come with the injury concerns, and would likely cost approximately $3.5M less. No, Trouba alone doesn't get us over the hump, but he's young enough that he will still be good enough to help us when we are ready to compete.

Umm you know that Carolina jumped from 11 to 2 the year before right? And Philadelphia jumped from 12 to 2 the year before that? It's literally already happened 3 years in a row... and has a good chance of happening any season...

How did I Have a feeling it be a different situation for trouba  So Karlsson a basically a pensioner 

 

so your willing to bet internet money that it’ll happen four years in a row now? Lol

[LeftWinger 4,963]

2 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Gotta ask. IF you don't want UFAs and you want to "free up a roster spot" by trading Nielsen, who are your 4 centers this year? And don't say Veleno, you predictable m*****f*****. 

 

for a season that will more than likely be a lottery season, if we trade Nielsen, we still have 6 natural centers on the team, and another in GR with some NHL experience. 

Larkin

AA 

Helm 

Glendening

Ehn

De La Rose 

Turgeon 

The top 4 names will be good enough centers to get us through another blow off season. Don't need Nielsen, nor a UFA center. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

15 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

How did I Have a feeling it be a different situation for trouba  So Karlsson a basically a pensioner 

so your willing to bet internet money that it’ll happen four years in a row now? Lol

Is it not different?

I'd bet ALL the internet money that a team outside the bottom 10 will jump up to top 3, and / or at least 2 teams outside the top 3 will jump up into the top 3...

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

35 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Is it not different?

I'd bet ALL the internet money that a team outside the bottom 10 will jump up to top 3, and / or at least 2 teams outside the top 3 will jump up into the top 3...

Erik Karlsson today is a better dman stats wise , he can easily put up 60-75 a year for years to come , maybe in 5 years it’ll be different but I don’t see it he’s just one of the best offensive defensemen in the game , I think if he was 100% healthy you wouldn’t be second guessing Karlsson being a wing ,i on the other hand would roll the dice and take a chance on Karlsson + trouba 2020 .... I know I know I keep flip flopping on the 2020 pick, if I knew 100% Karlsson wanted to be a redwing and we’d get trouba in a season and basically got both for free I don’t know if I could say no to that 

 

thats a lot of internet money you have on the line 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

With a Trouba acquisition and Green and Hronek on the roster,  that gives the Wings 3 RH D at roughly the same cost as one Erik Karlsson.

If Lindstrom replaces Green in a couple seasons, there would be no need for EK now, or in the future.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't want to trade Nielsen this summer. I want to trade Nielsen next summer. And yes, Veleno will be more than ready to take over by then, along with maybe whoever we pick 6th overall next weekend...

And Lafreniere in 2020 draft

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Erik Karlsson today is a better dman stats wise , he can easily put up 60-75 a year for years to come , maybe in 5 years it’ll be different but I don’t see it he’s just one of the best offensive defensemen in the game , I think if he was 100% healthy you wouldn’t be second guessing Karlsson being a wing ,i on the other hand would roll the dice and take a chance on Karlsson + trouba 2020 .... I know I know I keep flip flopping on the 2020 pick, if I knew 100% Karlsson wanted to be a redwing and we’d get trouba in a season and basically got both for free I don’t know if I could say no to that 

Better? Yes. $3.5M per season better? I don't think so. I'd take Trouba at 20 less points per season and his better defensive game, along with the cap savings, durability and youth over Karlsson.

Sure, in theory we could get both, but I don't see how you fit both under the cap long term, with Mantha, Athanasiou and Bertuzzi among others due for new contracts in the next few seasons.

IF 100% healthy, you're probably right. The problem is, he hasn't been, and I doubt he will be as he gets older.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Only person I'd acquire this offseason is Ryan Callahan.  Take him for a year, get the pick/prospect, and leave the UFAs for next year when we sign Trouba.  Callahan can have Vanek's spot, Witkowski, and Frk will be gone and there's not harm in keeping Ehn down/waiving De La Rose if we really really want some combination of Zadina, Rasmussen, or Svech up this year. Lottery pick here we come baby!