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2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread, Pt. 2 - What's the Yzerplan?

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Anyone know if hirose and Erne can play right wing? If they stay locked in at left wing now that likely leaves zadina as a 3rd liner if he makes the team (surprise surprise )

 

Bertuzzi Larkin mantha 

Hirose filppula athanasiou ( was hoping for a hirose AA zadina line )

Erne Nielsen zadina 

And then is where the real fun begins ..... 

 

helm glendening abdelkader ehn delarose turgeon Rasmussen svechnikov

 

like wtf man? Lol turgeon pretty much means destined to not make the team which is why I suggested mccaron swap but he’s basically turned into Erne now 

svechnikov is pretty much doomed , Rasmussen should in no way be a redwing unless he’s swapped with zadina , he needs a ton of ice time 

my guess ... ehn was good in a 4th line role and cheap , along with glendening and were forced with abdelkader so that leaves one more spot and I’ll go with delarose unless he gets cut for turgeon , that leaves helm as the odd man out as my pick for who will be gone  . If we eat some salary he should be moved. 

This doesn’t even include veleno,berggren,grewe and the others we drafted this year and hopefully kivenmaki + Rasmussen and maybe svechnikov if he still has a future in 2-3 years which is why I wouldn’t be surprised if someone like AA got moved at some point to land us a top d prospect 

anyways end of rant 

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2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

In the last two years we've acquired Witkowski (fought Mantha), Nemeth (fought Mantha), and Erne (fought Athanasiou)... Who is fighting Boeser and Werenski this season?

Erne appears to be a potential 'replacement' for Witkowski...Play 3rd/4th line minutes when there's injuries, and gets his nose dirty...Meh - ok.

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1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Bertuzzi Larkin mantha 

Hirose filppula athanasiou ( was hoping for a hirose AA zadina line )

Erne Nielsen zadina 

And then is where the real fun begins ..... 

 

helm glendening abdelkader ehn delarose turgeon Rasmussen svechnikov

this is how I think it may work out. Disclaimer, unless Zadina just blows everyone away during camp that is.

Zadina, Rasmussen, Veleno and Svech all go to GR.  Our roster should look like this:

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha

Hirose - Filppula - AA

De La Rose - Nielsen - Erne

Abby - Helm - Glenny

Turgeon - (one of) Kuffner, Pope or MAYBE Smith to make up our 14 forwards.

Having ALL four of those kids in GR for most the year will do wonders for their development and confidence. Plus it may help lead GR to a Calder Cup.

Honestly, for a year that is supposed to be a throw away one, that is not too bad of a forward group.  It's our D that is going to help us fail to make the playoffs.  Which is fine, because some of you feel that this is our year to nab #1 OA. And that would be the official one giant leap for Red Wing Kind.

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2 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

this is how I think it may work out. Disclaimer, unless Zadina just blows everyone away during camp that is.

Zadina, Rasmussen, Veleno and Svech all go to GR.  Our roster should look like this:

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha

Hirose - Filppula - AA

De La Rose - Nielsen - Erne

Abby - Helm - Glenny

Turgeon - (one of) Kuffner, Pope or MAYBE Smith to make up our 14 forwards.

Having ALL four of those kids in GR for most the year will do wonders for their development and confidence. Plus it may help lead GR to a Calder Cup.

Ummm ya I like that lineup you have in the sense it’s so bad it’ll give us a top pick next draft haha , I mean who’s gonna get pts in those bottom 2 lines? Nielsen will be lucky to crack 30-35 pts besides and I won’t get carried away with Ernie cause we got him

i mean sooner or later some young kids have to make this team , this hasn’t been going on forever ... zadina bitched how he’d be better off with Better players than ahl guys basically who knows if that’s true or not but I’m sure if he started down his confidence would be shaken a bit 

You’d have to think one of those 4 will crack the lineup and I’d rather it be zadina , veleno has been good but I think I he needs to get some ahl experience first and Rasmussen was completely wasted last year and needs to get a ton of ice time and get his confidence back otherwise that 9th overall pick will be a complete waste of a pick . I’d have like to think svechnikov had a real shot to make this team but we just have too many bodies 

 

anyways whatever happens this year we will suck hardcore and if there a season to watch the griffins it’s this year 

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24 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Ummm ya I like that lineup you have in the sense it’s so bad it’ll give us a top pick next draft haha , I mean who’s gonna get pts in those bottom 2 lines? Nielsen will be lucky to crack 30-35 pts besides and I won’t get carried away with Ernie cause we got him

i mean sooner or later some young kids have to make this team , this hasn’t been going on forever ... zadina bitched how he’d be better off with Better players than ahl guys basically who knows if that’s true or not but I’m sure if he started down his confidence would be shaken a bit 

You’d have to think one of those 4 will crack the lineup and I’d rather it be zadina , veleno has been good but I think I he needs to get some ahl experience first and Rasmussen was completely wasted last year and needs to get a ton of ice time and get his confidence back otherwise that 9th overall pick will be a complete waste of a pick . I’d have like to think svechnikov had a real shot to make this team but we just have too many bodies 

 

anyways whatever happens this year we will suck hardcore and if there a season to watch the griffins it’s this year 

So if one of those four make the team, will that make it that much better? Ok, so, if Zadina does blow everyone away and makes the club, what does it do? Moves Hirose down to the 3rd and De La Rose either down to the 4th or scratched.  We know Blashill isn't going to scratch one of Abby/Helm/Glenny.  So all it does is bump one of Pope/Kuffner/Smith (in my lineup mock) back to GR, which is fine because they are all waiver exempt. But adding Zadina to the 2nd or 3rd line does not make this team THAT much better.  I want to see all kids, but we have too many forwards before injury.  I'd much rather see a Zadina - Veleno - Rasmussen top line in GR playing 20+ minutes a game.  I think Zadina's comments were a reference to whom he was playing with IN the AHL.  Sure, he'd like to be here, but he'll have greater success with Veleno as his C rather than wherever he may slot here. Not unless he takes over top 3...plus better success in GR if he gets to play with those two instead of his mates from last season.

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15 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I mean, he took a lot of head shots over his career.  A WHOLE bunch just in the 2002 series again Vancouver alone.  So I wouldn't count on it. 

Weird compliment. But I'll take it.

Not sure I get why we needed Erne, but it was very low cost, so I'm absolutely fine with it.

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14 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

So if one of those four make the team, will that make it that much better? Ok, so, if Zadina does blow everyone away and makes the club, what does it do? Moves Hirose down to the 3rd and De La Rose either down to the 4th or scratched.  We know Blashill isn't going to scratch one of Abby/Helm/Glenny.  So all it does is bump one of Pope/Kuffner/Smith (in my lineup mock) back to GR, which is fine because they are all waiver exempt. But adding Zadina to the 2nd or 3rd line does not make this team THAT much better.  I want to see all kids, but we have too many forwards before injury.  I'd much rather see a Zadina - Veleno - Rasmussen top line in GR playing 20+ minutes a game.  I think Zadina's comments were a reference to whom he was playing with IN the AHL.  Sure, he'd like to be here, but he'll have greater success with Veleno as his C rather than wherever he may slot here. Not unless he takes over top 3...plus better success in GR if he gets to play with those two instead of his mates from last season.

If zadina makes the lineup it’ll sadly likely be on the third line in my eyes which is sad for him cause I guy of his talent and scoring ability should have talented guys to play with , I envisioned a hirose AA zadina line but now it looks like AA will be a winger again and thus bringing zadina down cause I see hirose and his play making ability being on the top 6 

unless they move Erne up and give zadina hirose?

erne filppula AA

hirose Nielsen zadina 

probably looks better and gives us more of a threat on the third line , still think it’s inevitable that AA gets moved 

think zadina gets to start the season up , sooner or later we have to give some kids some games, sure it be nice to have veleno Rasmussen zadina down together but then what next year 3 of them make the team at the same time with Rasmussen really being the only one with significant nhl time?this way at least two of 3 have played a ton of games and know what to expect for 2020-2021 rather than having a bunch of kids at the same time up ... don’t forget good chances cholowski will be back full time then as well and seider possibly

kids need to start gaining experience rather than all gaining it at the same time together 

 

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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22 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

kids need to start gaining experience rather than all gaining it at the same time together 

I agree.

Somewhat realistic best case scenario assuming no other moves are made...

Red Wings

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha
Zadina - Filppula - Athanasiou
Erne - Nielsen - Hirose
Abdelkader - Glendening - Helm
de la Rose

DeKeyser - Green
Nemeth - Hronek
Ericsson - Bowey
Daley / Hicketts

Howard
Bernier

Griffins

Rasmussen - Veleno - Terry
Svechnikov - Ehn - Puempel
Kuffner - Turgeon - Smith
Elson - Pearson - Ford
Pope / Shine

Cholowski - Seider
Lashoff - Lindstrom
Saarijarvi - Kaski
McIlrath

Larsson
Pickard

I'd like to see Veleno given a chance as our 3C, but with Nielsen and the addition of Filppula, I don't see that happening... I'd also like to see Cholowski in over Ericsson / Daley... Maybe once players inevitably get injured, or players get moved...

Either way, with this being another throw away season, I'm good with the kids getting top minutes in GR. That just means I'll have to watch more Griffins games...

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25 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree.

Somewhat realistic best case scenario assuming no other moves are made...

Red Wings

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha
Zadina - Filppula - Athanasiou
Erne - Nielsen - Hirose
Abdelkader - Glendening - Helm
de la Rose

DeKeyser - Green
Nemeth - Hronek
Ericsson - Bowey
Daley / Hicketts

Howard
Bernier

Griffins

Rasmussen - Veleno - Terry
Svechnikov - Ehn - Puempel
Kuffner - Turgeon - Smith
Elson - Pearson - Ford
Pope / Shine

Cholowski - Seider
Lashoff - Lindstrom
Saarijarvi - Kaski
McIlrath

Larsson
Pickard

I'd like to see Veleno given a chance as our 3C, but with Nielsen and the addition of Filppula, I don't see that happening... I'd also like to see Cholowski in over Ericsson / Daley... Maybe once players inevitably get injured, or players get moved...

Either way, with this being another throw away season, I'm good with the kids getting top minutes in GR. That just means I'll have to watch more Griffins games...

That sounds pretty much about right except I think seider will be in Mannheim and I think I heard mcisaac is injured so likely will be in the juniors again? I’d like to see him in the griffins when he comes back and play there and be ready for Detroit at 21 if possible but that’s not a big deal. 

And like to see saarijarvi moved to recoup that Erne pick back cause I don’t see him having any future here after the draft last year and regula etc... ahead of him but again no rush 

everything seems pretty much spot on at this point , I think we like ehn and he makes the lineup though , I can see us trying to move Darren helm at this stage ... maybe some salary eaten to the oilers for manning (then we bury him somewhere) + a pick?

whatever way we look at it, it’s going to be a long season and I’ll just enjoy keeping an eye out on our future in Detroit,Grand Rapids and elsewhere and I for one wouldn’t be shocked at all to see AA moved on the deadline if we see contract talks are going to be a problem for us and trying to land a top d prospect even though we have some good ones coming 

unless every prospect we have turns to a bust I think outside bertuzzi mantha larkin , most guys are expendable with the likes of veleno,zadina,Rasmussen,berggren coming in 1-2 years ... hopefully a lafraniere/Raymond/byfield just not enough spots ... it’s a good problem for us to have after years of having nobody on this team but aging vets and bust prospects 

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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7 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

That sounds pretty much about right except I think seider will be in Mannheim and I think I heard mcisaac is injured so likely will be in the juniors again? I’d like to see him in the griffins when he comes back and play there and be ready for Detroit at 21 if possible but that’s not a big deal. 

And like to see saarijarvi moved to recoup that Erne pick back cause I don’t see him having any future here after the draft last year and regula etc... ahead of him but again no rush 

everything seems pretty much spot on at this point , I think we like ehn and he makes the lineup though , I can see us trying to move Darren helm at this stage ... maybe some salary eaten to the oilers for manning (then we bury him somewhere) + a pick?

whatever way we look at it, it’s going to be a long season and I’ll just enjoy keeping an eye out on our future in Detroit,Grand Rapids and elsewhere and I for one wouldn’t be shocked at all to see AA moved on the deadline if we see contract talks are going to be a problem for us and trying to land a top d prospect even though we have some good ones coming 

unless every prospect we have turns to a bust I think outside bertuzzi mantha larkin , most guys are expendable with the likes of veleno,zadina,Rasmussen,berggren coming in 1-2 years ... hopefully a lafraniere/Raymond/byfield just not enough spots ... it’s a good problem for us to have after years of having nobody on this team but aging vets and bust prospects 

I could see Seider going either way. I'd prefer to see him in Grand Rapids, to be able to keep a closer eye on him, and for him to get used to the North American culture / game / ice.

McIsaac isn't eligible to play in Grand Rapids. It's either Detroit (not going to happen), or back to Halifax for him. It would be the same for Veleno if it weren't for the exceptional status, already having 4 years of juniors under his belt.

Saarijarvi wouldn't get us a 4th round pick. Every team has prospects in the minors as good or better than Vili. He'll likely end up back in Europe in the next couple years.

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree.

Somewhat realistic best case scenario assuming no other moves are made...

Red Wings

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha
Zadina - Filppula - Athanasiou
Erne - Nielsen - Hirose
Abdelkader - Glendening - Helm
de la Rose

DeKeyser - Green
Nemeth - Hronek
Ericsson - Bowey
Daley / Hicketts

Howard
Bernier

Griffins

Rasmussen - Veleno - Terry
Svechnikov - Ehn - Puempel
Kuffner - Turgeon - Smith
Elson - Pearson - Ford
Pope / Shine

Cholowski - Seider
Lashoff - Lindstrom
Saarijarvi - Kaski
McIlrath

Larsson
Pickard

I'd like to see Veleno given a chance as our 3C, but with Nielsen and the addition of Filppula, I don't see that happening... I'd also like to see Cholowski in over Ericsson / Daley... Maybe once players inevitably get injured, or players get moved...

Either way, with this being another throw away season, I'm good with the kids getting top minutes in GR. That just means I'll have to watch more Griffins games...

Unless winning puck battles stops being important in the next couple of months I suspect your Zadina-Filppula-AA line ain't gonna happen. 

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree.

Somewhat realistic best case scenario assuming no other moves are made...

Red Wings

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha
Zadina - Filppula - Athanasiou
Erne - Nielsen - Hirose
Abdelkader - Glendening - Helm
de la Rose

DeKeyser - Green
Nemeth - Hronek
Ericsson - Bowey
Daley / Hicketts

Howard
Bernier

Griffins

Rasmussen - Veleno - Terry
Svechnikov - Ehn - Puempel
Kuffner - Turgeon - Smith
Elson - Pearson - Ford
Pope / Shine

Cholowski - Seider
Lashoff - Lindstrom
Saarijarvi - Kaski
McIlrath

Larsson
Pickard

I'd like to see Veleno given a chance as our 3C, but with Nielsen and the addition of Filppula, I don't see that happening... I'd also like to see Cholowski in over Ericsson / Daley... Maybe once players inevitably get injured, or players get moved...

Either way, with this being another throw away season, I'm good with the kids getting top minutes in GR. That just means I'll have to watch more Griffins games...

Zadina is AHL bound...  I'm betting he plays with Veleno for the majority of the season, call-ups notwithstanding. 

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14 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I could see Seider going either way. I'd prefer to see him in Grand Rapids, to be able to keep a closer eye on him, and for him to get used to the North American culture / game / ice.

McIsaac isn't eligible to play in Grand Rapids. It's either Detroit (not going to happen), or back to Halifax for him. It would be the same for Veleno if it weren't for the exceptional status, already having 4 years of juniors under his belt.

Saarijarvi wouldn't get us a 4th round pick. Every team has prospects in the minors as good or better than Vili. He'll likely end up back in Europe in the next couple years.

I’m ok either way with seider , Mannheim seems to be working and his coach is apparently heavy on fitness which benefited him and others ... it would be cool to see him in Grand Rapids but I’m ok either way , I know in Germany he’ll get a ton of ice time and represent Germany at the juniors in December 

wasn’t sure about mcisaac being unavailable for ahl 

doesn’t have to be a 4th but maybe 6-7 ... maybe your right , just don’t think he’ll get much time to play in Grand Rapids with everyone ahead of him and all the prospects we have coming . I’d be shipping him out now if possible 

2 minutes ago, mackel said:

Zadina is AHL bound...  I'm betting he plays with Veleno for the majority of the season, call-ups notwithstanding. 

This team would be a disaster in 2020-2021 if we have zadina veleno seider , possibly top 3 pick all play on the team with pretty much no nhl experience, maybe someone like a Pearson or someone we don’t expect  ..... add to that Rasmussen,cholowski with barely any games in

id like to see zadina up cause we can’t just plunk in 4-7 rookies in the lineup in the same season

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35 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Unless winning puck battles stops being important in the next couple of months I suspect your Zadina-Filppula-AA line ain't gonna happen. 

You don't think Athanasiou is capable of retrieving pucks? There are plenty of very productive lines in the NHL that don't have a prototypical "puck retriever" on the line.

I've seen a lot of projections with Hirose on that line in place of Zadina. I don't see that being a better option if you're worried about puck retrieval. Who would you put there? Erne? Helm?

We don't have the players right now to put together three highly skilled scoring lines, but that's what I'd like to see in the next couple years. The "puck retrievers" can be reserved for the dump and chase 4th line.

39 minutes ago, mackel said:

Zadina is AHL bound...  I'm betting he plays with Veleno for the majority of the season, call-ups notwithstanding. 

I'd be more than okay with that as well.

Good job. You commented on Zadina without calling him a bust...

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5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You don't think Athanasiou is capable of retrieving pucks? There are plenty of very productive lines in the NHL that don't have a prototypical "puck retriever" on the line.

I've seen a lot of projections with Hirose on that line in place of Zadina. I don't see that being a better option if you're worried about puck retrieval. Who would you put there? Erne? Helm?

We don't have the players right now to put together three highly skilled scoring lines, but that's what I'd like to see in the next couple years. The "puck retrievers" can be reserved for the dump and chase 4th line.

I'd be more than okay with that as well.

Good job. You commented on Zadina without calling him a bust...

Call me a 'Homer', but I can def see Hirose becoming our 'poor mans' version of Marner.

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39 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I’m ok either way with seider , Mannheim seems to be working and his coach is apparently heavy on fitness which benefited him and others ... it would be cool to see him in Grand Rapids but I’m ok either way , I know in Germany he’ll get a ton of ice time and represent Germany at the juniors in December 

I'd be okay with either as well, but my preference would be in the AHL (for the reasons stated). I think he'd instantly be one of the top defensemen in Grand Rapids, so I doubt ice time would be an issue, and playing in GR wouldn't prevent him from playing in the world juniors either.

43 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

doesn’t have to be a 4th but maybe 6-7 ... maybe your right , just don’t think he’ll get much time to play in Grand Rapids with everyone ahead of him and all the prospects we have coming . I’d be shipping him out now if possible 

I don't think he will get much time in Grand Rapids either. He has already been pushed way down the depth chart, and for that reason, I wouldn't expect anything at all in return for him. He's a dime a dozen prospect. Maybe you can convince a team to take him for a 7th, but at that point, who cares...

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2 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Call me a 'Homer', but I can def see Hirose becoming our 'poor mans' version of Marner.

You're a homer... Haha I can see what you're saying, but I think you mean a "homeless man's" version of Marner... Marner is a 90-100 point winger. I'd be thrilled if Hirose can become a 40-50 point winger.

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28 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'd be okay with either as well, but my preference would be in the AHL (for the reasons stated). I think he'd instantly be one of the top defensemen in Grand Rapids, so I doubt ice time would be an issue, and playing in GR wouldn't prevent him from playing in the world juniors either.

I don't think he will get much time in Grand Rapids either. He has already been pushed way down the depth chart, and for that reason, I wouldn't expect anything at all in return for him. He's a dime a dozen prospect. Maybe you can convince a team to take him for a 7th, but at that point, who cares...

We got kivenmaki at 7 so always give me that pick cause you just never know haha , but yes more likely than not late picks won’t ever play but I’m greedy and just want as many picks as possible 

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11 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

We got kivenmaki at 7 so always give me that pick cause you just never know haha , but yes more likely than not late picks won’t ever play but I’m greedy and just want as many picks as possible 

Kivenmaki is a decent prospect, but much like Saarijarvi, he's still a long shot to ever make the NHL.

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48 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You're a homer... Haha I can see what you're saying, but I think you mean a "homeless man's" version of Marner... Marner is a 90-100 point winger. I'd be thrilled if Hirose can become a 40-50 point winger.

2nd line ice time along with 2nd unit pp time...Having AA on one side, Hirose on the other, and either Flip, or Nielsen at center...Could be a pretty good line.

But yes - I'd say Hirose has 45 to 55 point potential.

Edited by F.Michael

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

You don't think Athanasiou is capable of retrieving pucks? There are plenty of very productive lines in the NHL that don't have a prototypical "puck retriever" on the line.

I've seen a lot of projections with Hirose on that line in place of Zadina. I don't see that being a better option if you're worried about puck retrieval. Who would you put there? Erne? Helm?

We don't have the players right now to put together three highly skilled scoring lines, but that's what I'd like to see in the next couple years. The "puck retrievers" can be reserved for the dump and chase 4th line.

I'd be more than okay with that as well.

Good job. You commented on Zadina without calling him a bust...

I was this close...  but I decided not to shatter dreams today.

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

Call me a 'Homer', but I can def see Hirose becoming our 'poor mans' version of Marner.

Homer

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