2020 Draft Thread

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I mean, he can try. But you have to have a partner to dance. So if there aren't any takers for that pick, you can't be upset at SY that he just picked the guy he wants.

FWIW, I don't think we'll see anybody picking 2-4 attempt trade up. Even if you really like Laff, there are some really good consolation prizes that wouldnt make the assets required to move up to get him worth it.

If Yzerman truly wants to trade down because he feels Stutzel is the best player in the draft, whichever team is drafting 2nd (or 3rd) would absolutely, 100% give up an asset to make the trade. If Yzerman is the one making the call, the price shouldn't be that high. If the team with the 2nd (or 3rd) pick is the one making the call, that's when the price gets heavy...

In saying that, if we were to win the lottery, I'd want Stutzel, along with another top 15 pick, and a top prospect. And that's only if Yzerman truly believes Stutzel will be the better player. I don't see it, but what the f*** do I know...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

14 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

 

If Yzerman gets the 1st overall and drafts Stutzle WITHOUT trading down to the #2 to get MORE assets, then I will seriously question my support of him. Seriously...

I think moving around in the top5 is a lot harder than anyone thinks. Even if you wanna move down. If it wasn't extremely difficult it would happen more often, but it rarely if ever does.

First consider what holding a top5 pick is like without considering trading within the top5. It's a poker game. Everyone trying to figure out who the other ones are going to take. So you're reluctant to discuss anything truthfully. Not very conducive to trade.

Imagine for a sec Yzerman calls you offering the first overall pick to move back. My immediate thought would be: What does he know that I don't? That - however slight- paranoia is enough to kill any deal IMO. Yzerman is a shark. No one wants to get burned by him and wreck their career in a very rare and controversial trade. That reputation defense alone would make most not even consider it I'd think.

I suspect this won't alleviate your worries though. It's hard to trade those picks + Yzerman has already proved he's willing to buck the system and reach down (Seider). But if it's another Seider maybe we should trust him?

Edited April 10, 2020 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[F.Michael 4,590]

5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I think moving around in the top5 is a lot harder than anyone thinks. Even if you wanna move down. If it wasn't extremely difficult it would happen more often, but it rarely if ever does.

First consider what holding a top5 pick is like without considering trading within the top5. It's a poker game. Everyone trying to figure out who the other ones are going to take. So you're reluctant to discuss anything truthfully. Not very conducive to trade.

Imagine for a sec Yzerman calls you offering the first overall pick to move back. My immediate thought would be: What does he know that I don't? That - however slight- paranoia is enough to kill any deal IMO. Yzerman is a shark. No one wants to get burned by him and wreck their career in a very rare and controversial trade. That reputation defense alone would make most not even consider it I'd think.

I suspect this won't alleviate your worries though. It's hard to trade those picks + Yzerman has already proved he's willing to buck the system and reach down (Seider). But if it's another Seider maybe we should trust him?

This is a possibility, but it also might be 'overthinking' the situation as well.

I'm guessing a good portion of the GMs, and their scouting staff are certain Lefreniere is the BPA in the entire draft...Now - trying to pry something of value away from these guys is probably easier said than done (swapping picks in the top 5).

Capt Obvious here - Ottawa might be a prime target once the lotto is set, and done.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

22 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

This is a possibility, but it also might be 'overthinking' the situation as well.

I'm guessing a good portion of the GMs, and their scouting staff are certain Lefreniere is the BPA in the entire draft...Now - trying to pry something of value away from these guys is probably easier said than done (swapping picks in the top 5).

Capt Obvious here - Ottawa might be a prime target once the lotto is set, and done.

Just imagine if you trade up to get a Nolan Patrick, while the pick you gave Yzerman turns out to be Elias Pettersson.

That's basically career ending, or at least current job ending, in one move. It's bad optics. Not worth the risk.

[F.Michael 4,590]

Just now, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Just imagine if you trade up to get a Nolan Patrick, while the pick you gave Yzerman turns out to be Elias Pettersson.

That's basically career ending, or at least current job ending, in one move. It's bad optics. Not worth the risk.

While true - however hindsight is 20/20.

I will say Patrick seemed risky courtesy of his list of injuries prior to getting drafted.

[F.Michael 4,590]

If by some strange event - the teams remain where they're currently at - I cannot imagine the Sens wanting to make any moves...

 

http://www.tankathon.com/nhl/mock_draft

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

"With the 2020 1st overall pick the Detroit Red Wings are proud to select - from SKA St. Petersburg of the VHL - Yaroslav Askarov"

[F.Michael 4,590]

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

"With the 2020 1st overall pick the Detroit Red Wings are proud to select - from SKA St. Petersburg of the VHL - Yaroslav Askarov"

The only logical excuse for this would be if Grand Master Y visited an opium den the night before, and had some crazy visions of the future...

[kipwinger 8,524]

47 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Just imagine if you trade up to get a Nolan Patrick, while the pick you gave Yzerman turns out to be Elias Pettersson.

That's basically career ending, or at least current job ending, in one move. It's bad optics. Not worth the risk.

Disagree. Peter Chiarelli has amply demonstrated that no amount of bad trades can end your career. This is a guy who traded all of Phil Kessel, Blake Wheeler, Tyler Seguin, and Taylor Hall for a handful of magic beans. Shero and Rutherford are guilty of this too, to a lesser extent. 

Dumb fans (i.e. most fans) want durrrr HYPE! more than they want their team to be good.  They want trades more than they want good trades even.  The "goodness" of the trade being an ancillary benefit. The trade you're suggesting here would be a homerun for both teams' executives, just on different timeslines.  Vancouver would love it on draft day, and Philly would love it for the rest of their careers.  Fans, either way, would be on to the next thing. 

Look how excited Detroit fans were for the "big moves" Yzerman made this year, most of which were pretty bad.  Why were they excited?  Because Holland basically never did dumb sh*t like that. 

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Disagree. Peter Chiarelli has amply demonstrated that no amount of bad trades can end your career. This is a guy who traded all of Phil Kessel, Blake Wheeler, Tyler Seguin, and Taylor Hall for a handful of magic beans. Shero and Rutherford are guilty of this too, to a lesser extent. 

Dumb fans (i.e. most fans) want durrrr HYPE! more than they want their team to be good.  They want trades more than they want good trades even.  The "goodness" of the trade being an ancillary benefit. The trade you're suggesting here would be a homerun for both teams' executives, just on different timeslines.  Vancouver would love it on draft day, and Philly would love it for the rest of their careers.  Fans, either way, would be on to the next thing. 

Look how excited Detroit fans were for the "big moves" Yzerman made this year, most of which were pretty bad.  Why were they excited?  Because Holland basically never did dumb sh*t like that. 

I gotta ask - why so down on Yzerman?

So far he hasn't done anything spectacular, but he did get a few 2nd rounders for AA - granted Holland might've done Steve a favor.

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Disagree. Peter Chiarelli has amply demonstrated that no amount of bad trades can end your career. This is a guy who traded all of Phil Kessel, Blake Wheeler, Tyler Seguin, and Taylor Hall for a handful of magic beans. Shero and Rutherford are guilty of this too, to a lesser extent. 

Dumb fans (i.e. most fans) want durrrr HYPE! more than they want their team to be good.  They want trades more than they want good trades even.  The "goodness" of the trade being an ancillary benefit. The trade you're suggesting here would be a homerun for both teams' executives, just on different timeslines.  Vancouver would love it on draft day, and Philly would love it for the rest of their careers.  Fans, either way, would be on to the next thing. 

Look how excited Detroit fans were for the "big moves" Yzerman made this year, most of which were pretty bad.  Why were they excited?  Because Holland basically never did dumb sh*t like that. 

I don't disagree. But I think that reaction is in the moment so to speak. Eventually it would be remembered as a massive blunder and fans wouldn't shut up about it for years. Like Ken choosing Franzen over Hossa or something, but even worse.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Just now, F.Michael said:

I gotta ask - why so down on Yzerman?

So far he hasn't done anything spectacular, but he did get a few 2nd rounders for AA - granted Holland might've done Steve a favor.

 

I'm not down on him.  He's been perfectly "meh" so far regarding trades.  Say most of them were pretty bad is just a reasonable assessment of what he's done w/respect to the trade market.  I actually like his drafting, though I didn't on draft day.  I was very wrong about Seider, Steve exceeded my expectations there.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

I gotta ask - why so down on Yzerman?

So far he hasn't done anything spectacular, but he did get a few 2nd rounders for AA - granted Holland might've done Steve a favor.

 

In hindsight all the trading outside of Fabbri was pretty retarded.

The only caveat is he didn't lose very much (besides maybe Regula, we'll see)

[F.Michael 4,590]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I don't disagree. But I think that reaction is in the moment so to speak. Eventually it would be remembered as a massive blunder and fans wouldn't shut up about it for years. Like Ken choosing Franzen over Hossa or something, but even worse.

Was thinking about that the other day while chatting on Discord...I wonder what this team would've accomplished if Holland managed to have kept Hossa on board?

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I don't disagree. But I think that reaction is in the moment so to speak. Eventually it would be remembered as a massive blunder and fans wouldn't shut up about it for years. Like Ken choosing Franzen over Hossa or something, but even worse.

Yeah but you could easily write off the blunder as hindsight.  All the same sources that are currently saying Lafreniere is "in a tier to himself" were saying the exact same things about Patrick and Hischier.  It was a two horse race and nobody else was close.  So you can fall back on "all available indications were that Patrick would be a stud", and "nobody could have imagined it would turn out like this".  Of course, that's bulls*** but it would convince the dummies.

[F.Michael 4,590]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

In hindsight all the trading outside of Fabbri was pretty retarded.

The only caveat is he didn't lose very much (besides maybe Regula, we'll see)

I gotta agree with Kip here - sorta meh thus far.

What Yzerman moved outta Detroit (other than AA) seemed questionable for the NHL.

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 minute ago, F.Michael said:

Was thinking about that the other day while chatting on Discord...I wonder what this team would've accomplished if Holland managed to have kept Hossa on board?

I genuinely don't think it would have made a difference.  Detroit started falling off from the back end first.  We lost Rafalski then Stuart and Lidstrom and never replaced them.  We didn't draft and develop a single decent defenseman between Kronwall and Hronek and we only acquired guys like Ian Cole, Carlo Colaiacovo, Mike Commodore, etc. to fill those holes.  Hossa was not going to make up for a 4th rate defense after about 2010.

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I genuinely don't think it would have made a difference.  Detroit started falling off from the back end first.  We lost Rafalski then Stuart and Lidstrom and never replaced them.  We didn't draft and develop a single decent defenseman between Kronwall and Hronek and we only acquired guys like Ian Cole, Carlo Colaiacovo, Mike Commodore, etc. to fill those holes.  Hossa was not going to make up for a 4th rate defense after about 2010.

What - no love for this guy?

 

 

[kipwinger 8,524]

20 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

I gotta agree with Kip here - sorta meh thus far.

What Yzerman moved outta Detroit (other than AA) seemed questionable for the NHL.

I don't really care what he moved out, it's that other than the Fabbri trade we never got decent value back. 

Erne for a 4th?  Sure a 4th isn't much, but you could sign dozens of guys like Erne for league minimum and not give up the 4th.

Sarijaariv for Comrie?  Sure Sarijaarvi isn't that great but Comrie lasted 4 games with the team.

Kaski for Wood?  Terrible trade. Threw a decent prospect (who lit it up afterward) away for a career AHLer.

Perlini for Regula.  Terrible trade. Perlini blows is likely gone.  Plus even if Regula only ever turns into another Kyle Quincey it would be lopsided. 

AA for two 2nds.  Meh.  It's fine I guess, but when I see that Barclay Goodrow got a 1st in return, and we need additional 1sts, I have to wonder why Yzerman didn't package AA with a 2nd or a prospect.

Only Fabbri, and I guess Biega would be considered useful returns. 

15 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

What - no love for this guy?

 

 

Not really.  He's ok, but not exactly a fill in for the guys I mentioned.  Doesn't move the needle in any meaningful way.  Plus we didn't draft or develop him.  At his very best he MIGHT have been a replacement for Brad Stuart, but thats about it.

Edited April 10, 2020 by kipwinger

[F.Michael 4,590]

4 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I don't really care what he moved out, it's that other than the Fabbri trade we never got decent value back. 

Erne for a 4th?  Sure a 4th isn't much, but you could sign dozens of guys like earn for league minimum and not give up the 4th.

Sarijaariv for Comrie?  Sure Sarijaarvi isn't that great but Comrie lasted 4 games with the team.

Kaski for Wood?  Terrible trade. Threw a decent prospect (who lit it up afterward) away for a career AHLer.

Perlini for Regula.  Terrible trade. Perlini blows is likely gone.  Plus even if Regula only ever turns into another Kyle Quincey it would be lopsided. 

Only Fabbri, and I guess Biega would be considered useful returns. 

Since I don't pay much attention to the OHL/WHL/QMJHL I was a bit surprised just now seeing Regula's stats...

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/283940/alec-regula

Yeah - if he ends up being a 'late bloomer' 

8 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

 

Not really.  He's ok, but not exactly a fill in for the guys I mentioned.  Doesn't move the needle in any meaningful way.  Plus we didn't draft or develop him.  At his very best he MIGHT have been a replacement for Brad Stuart, but thats about it.

I know...Was tying to be funny...

 

 

[kipwinger 8,524]

7 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Since I don't pay much attention to the OHL/WHL/QMJHL I was a bit surprised just now seeing Regula's stats...

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/283940/alec-regula

Yeah - if he ends up being a 'late bloomer' 

I followed him pretty closely since he was drafted.  I don't think he's a late bloomer, he's just always been buried in the depth chart.  He was always behind Bouchard and then Bouchard and Boqvist for those juicy powerplay minutes that all the young defensemen pad their stats with.  Some time ago I actually broke down Regula's 5 on 5 scoring vs. a bunch of those top defensive prospects and he was better than a lot of names you might consider better.  I always hoped he'd be a Matthias Ekholm type guy.  A dude that scores in the 20-30 point range without any powerplay time, who's good defensively, and can eat minutes.  I like those kinds of guys. 

Perlini, on the other hand, is f*cking trash.  He's Jurco 2.0.  A guy who can only produce if he's gifted primo minutes he hasn't earned and some better player drags him around the ice. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by kipwinger

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

10 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I followed him pretty closely since he was drafted.  I don't think he's a late bloomer, he's just always been buried in the depth chart.  He was always behind Bouchard and then Bouchard and Boqvist for those juicy powerplay minutes that all the young defensemen pad their stats with.  Some time ago I actually broke down Regula's 5 on 5 scoring vs. a bunch of those top defensive prospects and he was better than a lot of names you might consider better.  I always hoped he'd be a Matthias Ekholm type guy.  A dude that scores in the 20-30 point range without any powerplay time, who's good defensively, and can eat minutes.  I like those kinds of guys. 

Perlini, on the other hand, is f*cking trash.  He's Jurco 2.0.  A guy who can only produce if some better player drags him around the ice. 

Yzerman got absolutely fleeced by Bowman. Big, mobile, smart, RH, Dman from Detroit, over a ppg at 19... for 39 games and 4 pts for Perlini in a tank year.

He's lucky Detroit fans are dumb enough to look the other way because of his name. Anybody else would get thrashed for this.

Edited April 10, 2020 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yzerman got absolutely fleeced by Bowman. Big, mobile, smart, RH, Dman from Detroit, over a ppg at 19... for 39 games and 4 pts for Perlini in a tank year.

He's lucky Detroit fans are dumb enough to look the other way because he's Yzerman. Anybody else would get thrashed for this.

Agreed.  I think Regula, at his best, will be one of those guys you pair a Yandle, or Green, or Shattenkirk with.  A guy who can keep up, get the puck out of the zone, play defense, and chip in a little bit of offense but mostly support the other guy who gets all the sweet powerplay time.  You need both.  I think he'll be a workhorse.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

19 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

If Yzerman truly wants to trade down because he feels Stutzel is the best player in the draft, whichever team is drafting 2nd (or 3rd) would absolutely, 100% give up an asset to make the trade. If Yzerman is the one making the call, the price shouldn't be that high. If the team with the 2nd (or 3rd) pick is the one making the call, that's when the price gets heavy...

In saying that, if we were to win the lottery, I'd want Stutzel, along with another top 15 pick, and a top prospect. And that's only if Yzerman truly believes Stutzel will be the better player. I don't see it, but what the f*** do I know...

If I'm picking 2nd and I believe Laf is the BPA in the draft. If the team with 1st overall wants my #2 pick, plus one of my best prospects, and another pick. Why would I do that? Is Lafreniere worth Stutzle/Rossi/Byfield + another one of my best prospects+ another pick? If I'm a rebuilding team (which I likely would be picking that high), I am not giving up 3 quality assets to build with for 1 who is only slightly better than any one of the assets I'm giving up.

[krsmith17 7,191]

22 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

If I'm picking 2nd and I believe Laf is the BPA in the draft. If the team with 1st overall wants my #2 pick, plus one of my best prospects, and another pick. Why would I do that? Is Lafreniere worth Stutzle/Rossi/Byfield + another one of my best prospects+ another pick? If I'm a rebuilding team (which I likely would be picking that high), I am not giving up 3 quality assets to build with for 1 who is only slightly better than any one of the assets I'm giving up.

Not what I said... The 3+ pieces is what I, as a fan would want in such a trade. If Yzerman truly wanted to trade down though, the price shouldn't be that high. If he has his mind made up on Stutzel as the best player in the draft, he could accept a return as low as the 2nd overall and a 2nd round pick...