Robby Fabbri Extended

[kipwinger 8,524]

Remember that time Holland signed Mikael Samuelsson to a 2 year, 3 million AAV contract and everyone around here LOST THEIR MINDS? That was after Samuelsson had posted three consecutive years in which Samuelsson had either scored 50 points, or was on a 50 point pace. That's a track record Robby Fabbri can't even boast.  His previous contract with Vancouver after posting numbers much closer to Fabbri's current production? 2.5 million AAV. AND those were both UFA contracts. Guys who score like Fabbri are a dime a dozen.

Or how about when we signed Thomas Vanek (the first time) for 2 million dollars after three of the worst seasons of his career (all of which were better than anything Fabbri has ever done)? People loved that contract right? Then we signed him again (as a UFA) after a year away from Detroit in which, yet again, out performed anything Fabbri has ever done. This time for 3 million. And the crowd went wild, right?  Nope.

UFAs who outperform Fabbri don't literally grow on trees. But they might as well. So giving that money to a guy with as many question marks as Fabbri has, and as little leverage as Fabbri has, is definitely an overpayment.

Edited August 27, 2020 by kipwinger

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

10 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Zadina > Fabbri

erm aye doin this right or wha? 

Good god I don't want to even think about how badly Yzerman is gonna overpay Zadina. One at a time.

[mackel 681]

54 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Remember that time Holland signed Mikael Samuelsson to a 2 year, 3 million AAV contract and everyone around here LOST THEIR MINDS? That was after Samuelsson had posted three consecutive years in which Samuelsson had either scored 50 points, or was on a 50 point pace. That's a track record Robby Fabbri can't even boast.  His previous contract with Vancouver after posting numbers much closer to Fabbri's current production? 2.5 million AAV. AND those were both UFA contracts. Guys who score like Fabbri are a dime a dozen.

Or how about when we signed Thomas Vanek (the first time) for 2 million dollars after three of the worst seasons of his career (all of which were better than anything Fabbri has ever done)? People loved that contract right? Then we signed him again (as a UFA) after a year away from Detroit in which, yet again, out performed anything Fabbri has ever done. This time for 3 million. And the crowd went wild, right?  Nope.

UFAs who outperform Fabbri don't literally grow on trees. But they might as well. So giving that money to a guy with as many question marks as Fabbri has, and as little leverage as Fabbri has, is definitely an overpayment.

Drop that mic!

45 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Good god I don't want to even think about how badly Yzerman is gonna overpay Zadina. One at a time.

No worries brah, he's back playing in Europe even ahead of my time table 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Remember that time Holland signed Mikael Samuelsson to a 2 year, 3 million AAV contract and everyone around here LOST THEIR MINDS? That was after Samuelsson had posted three consecutive years in which Samuelsson had either scored 50 points, or was on a 50 point pace. That's a track record Robby Fabbri can't even boast.  His previous contract with Vancouver after posting numbers much closer to Fabbri's current production? 2.5 million AAV. AND those were both UFA contracts. Guys who score like Fabbri are a dime a dozen.

Or how about when we signed Thomas Vanek (the first time) for 2 million dollars after three of the worst seasons of his career (all of which were better than anything Fabbri has ever done)? People loved that contract right? Then we signed him again (as a UFA) after a year away from Detroit in which, yet again, out performed anything Fabbri has ever done. This time for 3 million. And the crowd went wild, right?  Nope.

UFAs who outperform Fabbri don't literally grow on trees. But they might as well. So giving that money to a guy with as many question marks as Fabbri has, and as little leverage as Fabbri has, is definitely an overpayment.

You mean the 5 people still left on this board all lost their minds 10 years ago when the cap was 55M or something? Hahaha 

Edited August 27, 2020 by The 91 of Ryans

[kipwinger 8,524]

2 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

You mean the 5 people still left on this board all lost their minds 10 years ago when the cap was 55M or something? Hahaha 

Vanek's last contract was signed 2 years ago. So hardly. But nice try.

I don't know why, at this point, it's so hard to just admit that Fabbri's contract is a little high? That's literally all I was saying to begin with, and a bunch of people couldn't stand it.  It's not even that divisive a stance TBH. If any other GM, on any other team, signed any other non-arbitration eligible player (with bad knees and no track record of production) everyone would be  like "yeah that's too much". But because its Yzerman and the Red Wings half the board has to twist itself in knots trying to explain how it's really a pretty good contract despite the fact that it could almost certainly have been signed for less.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Filppula, $3 mil AAV = 21 pts
Nemeth, $3 mil AAV = 9 pts
Erne, $1.05 mil AAV = 5 pts
Biega, $0.875 mil AAV = 3 pts

But don't worry guys, this time with Fabbri it's different...

Umm well, yeah, it is completely different...

Filppula was a UFA, and way past his prime.

Nemeth was a UFA, and a defenseman (same 10 points per $1M doesn't apply).

Erne just sucks, not even close to the calibre player as Fabbri.

Biega is a combination of all of the above. UFA, way past his prime, defenseman, sucks.

Fabbri was an RFA, young, skilled forward, that can provide offense anywhere in a teams top 9, and will be more than worth his sub $3M contract. 

[Akakabuto 1,750]

24 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I don't know why, at this point, it's so hard to just admit that Fabbri's contract is a little high? That's literally all I was saying to begin with, and a bunch of people couldn't stand it.  It's not even that divisive a stance TBH.

You wanna know why other members argue with you? Maybe its because you opened with this post below in this thread making hyperbolic statements. 

 

On 8/24/2020 at 10:02 PM, kipwinger said:

Wow, a 350% raise after one, half way decent, season. If that's the going rate then Mantha will be making about $15 million AAV and Bertuzzi about $9 million AAV before the summer is over. Atta boy Stevie.

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Akakabuto

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

26 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Vanek's last contract was signed 2 years ago. So hardly. But nice try.

1.)I don't know why, at this point, it's so hard to just admit that Fabbri's contract is a little high? That's literally all I was saying to begin with, and a bunch of people couldn't stand it.  It's not even that divisive a stance TBH. If any other GM, on any other team, signed any other non-arbitration eligible player (with bad knees and no track record of production) everyone would be  like "yeah that's too much". 2.) But because its Yzerman and the Red Wings half the board has to twist itself in knots trying to explain how it's really a pretty good contract despite the fact that it could almost certainly have been signed for less.

1. It's not high. You're high. 

2. Which is why you had to go the opposite right? "Atta boy Stevie"? Like this deal was some kind of albatross to be worn like some osmium shackle? 

I don't know why it's so hard to admit you pounced on this signing like some crazy ex girlfriend of Yzerman's and are still trying to ride that train into the ocean. At least @mackel is impressed. Think about that. The guy who thinks Zadina's a Czech beer-leager in less than two years? He agrees with everything you say. 

Edit: or just re-read the  @Akakabuto post above

Edited August 27, 2020 by The 91 of Ryans

[kipwinger 8,524]

5 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

You wanna know why other members argue with you? Maybe its because you opened with this post below in this thread making hyperbole statements. 

 

 

Not sure that's the reason. Nobody is arguing with a silly exaggeration. They're arguing that the Fabbri contract is even an over payment at all. They're arguing that any suggestion that the contract isn't good is incorrect.

Also, I've clarified a number of times since that post A) why I think it's an overpayment, and B) what I would have given him (1year, 1.5 million) and people are still arguing.

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

1. It's not high. You're high. 

2. Which is why you had to go the opposite right? "Atta boy Stevie"? Like this deal was some kind of albatross to be worn like some osmium shackle? 

I don't know why it's so hard to admit you pounced on this signing like some crazy ex girlfriend of Yzerman's and are still trying to ride that train into the ocean. At least @mackel is impressed. Think about that. The guy who thinks Zadina's a Czech beer-leager in less than two years? He agrees with everything you say. 

Edit: or just re-read the  @Akakabuto post above

See this is what I mean. You don't even think it's an overpayment at all. That's fine. I wish you'd just debate the actual substance of my argument which...for the 40 millionth time is...that an non-arbitration eligible RFA, with blown out knees, who has no track record of production, and has played less than 100 games in 3 years COULD have been signed for less. And because of that, it's an overpayment.

[Akakabuto 1,750]

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

B) what I would have given him (1year, 1.5 million) and people are still arguing.

I agree on that a 1-year del would have been preferable but I dont think the market agrees with you on the money. 

 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Not sure that's the reason. Nobody is arguing with a silly exaggeration. They're arguing that the Fabbri contract is even an over payment at all. They're arguing that any suggestion that the contract isn't good is incorrect.

Also, I've clarified a number of times since that post A) why I think it's an overpayment, and B) what I would have given him (1year, 1.5 million) and people are still arguing.

See this is what I mean. You don't even think it's an overpayment at all. That's fine. I wish you'd just debate the actual substance of my argument which...for the 40 millionth time is...that an non-arbitration eligible RFA, with blown out knees, who has no track record of production, and has played less than 100 games in 3 years COULD have been signed for less. And because of that, it's an overpayment.

If he COULD have, why wasn't he? 

[kipwinger 8,524]

Just now, Akakabuto said:

I agree on that a 1-year del would have been preferable but I dont think the market agrees with you on the money. 

 

Fabbri isn't representative of the market. That's my whole point. UFAs with track records and without injury issues tend to make about that much. Not some reclaimation project who has never scored 40 points or played a full 82 games season.

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

If he COULD have, why wasn't he? 

BECAUSE YZERMAN OVERPAID HIM!

You think Fabbri was going to turn money away? This is no different than saying that Abdelkader's contract isn't bad because if he could have (and should have) been signed for less then he would have.

 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Fabbri isn't representative of the market. That's my whole point. UFAs with track records and without injury issues tend to make about that much. Not some reclaimation project who has never scored 40 points or played a full 82 games season.

BECAUSE YZERMAN OVERPAID HIM!

You think Fabbri was going to turn money away? This is no different than saying that Abdelkader's contract isn't bad because if he could have (and should have) been signed for less then he would have.

 

and why on earth would he do that? 

[kipwinger 8,524]

4 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

and why on earth would he do that? 

How should I know? That's irrelevant. Unless you're suggesting that overpayments don't exist because they don't make sense. Yzerman has, over the course of his GM career, over paid a number of players (Carle, Garrison, Filppula, Sustr, etc. etc. etc.) Why? I don't f*cking know. Maybe he's not a very good GM? Ever consider that?

And I know this one will blow your mind too. LOTS of GMs over pay guys. Why? Who knows. But it happens. And it did in this case for all the reasons I stated ad nauseum.

Edited August 27, 2020 by kipwinger

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

36 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I don't know why, at this point, it's so hard to just admit that Fabbri's contract is a little high? That's literally all I was saying to begin with, and a bunch of people couldn't stand it.  It's not even that divisive a stance TBH. If any other GM, on any other team, signed any other non-arbitration eligible player (with bad knees and no track record of production) everyone would be  like "yeah that's too much". But because its Yzerman and the Red Wings half the board has to twist itself in knots trying to explain how it's really a pretty good contract despite the fact that it could almost certainly have been signed for less.

Yzerman could literally unbuckle his pants, drop trou, squat down, shart directly into a ladle, and then spoon-feed it to this fanbase, and 9/10 fans would turn around, thank him for it, and tell the rest of us how delightful the turd tastes.

27 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Umm well, yeah, it is completely different...

Filppula was a UFA, and way past his prime.

Nemeth was a UFA, and a defenseman (same 10 points per $1M doesn't apply).

Erne just sucks, not even close to the calibre player as Fabbri.

Biega is a combination of all of the above. UFA, way past his prime, defenseman, sucks.

Fabbri was an RFA, young, skilled forward, that can provide offense anywhere in a teams top 9, and will be more than worth his sub $3M contract. 

"The 10 pts per million rule always applies except for when I say it doesn't"

okay

2 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

If he COULD have, why wasn't he? 

Cause Yzerman is dropping the ball on contracts AGAIN

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

2 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Cause Yzerman is dropping the ball on contracts AGAIN

 

6 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

How should I know? That's irrelevant. Unless you're suggesting that overpayments don't exist because they don't make sense. Yzerman has, over the course of his GM career, over paid a number of players (Carle, Garrison, Filppula, Sustr, etc. etc. etc.) Why? I don't f*cking know. Maybe he's not a very good GM? Ever consider that?

And I know this one will blow your mind too. LOTS of GMs over pay guys. Why? Who knows. But it happens. And it did in this case for all the reasons I stated ad nauseum.

You guys are exhausting. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

 

You guys are exhausting. 

Yzer-shills always run out of ammo eventually...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yzer-shills always run out of ammo eventually...

I just can't advocate at the pace you guys troll

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I just can't advocate at the pace you guys troll

Being unbiased and acknowledging when your GM screws up = troll

Doing mental gymnastics to keep Yzerman on the midas pedestal he sits on in your head movies = advocating

Now I know.

[kipwinger 8,524]

3 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I just can't advocate at the pace you guys troll

You don't advocate at all. You just attack people that you disagree with. And disagreement isn't "trolling" BTW. Heaven forbid someone have a legitimate point of view that isn't yours.

 

[Akakabuto 1,750]

10 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Fabbri isn't representative of the market. That's my whole point. UFAs with track records and without injury issues tend to make about that much. Not some reclaimation project who has never scored 40 points or played a full 82 games season.

The capfriendly link I posted earlier shows that most RFA's at Fabbris age (24) signing for 2,3-2,7 m doesn't reach his production. I think you overplay the injury history. The guy is young and there's no reports suggesting he has lingering problems with his ALC injuries. Also, Its two injuries on the same knee. Not both. 

 

 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

Just now, kipwinger said:

You don't advocate at all. You just attack people that you disagree with. And disagreement isn't "trolling" BTW. Heaven forbid someone have a legitimate point of view that isn't yours.

 

I have been around for a while and I've yet to see you "agree" with anyone. Stop being such a baby all of a sudden. 

You have an obvious anti-Yzerman bias and have the gall to say anyone that doesn't see this as a bad contract is some sort of Steve slappy. Why would I waste my time? 

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 minute ago, Akakabuto said:

The capfriendly link I posted earlier shows that most RFA's at Fabbris age (24) signing for 2,3-2,7 m doesn't reach his production. I think you overplay the injury history. The guy is young and there's no reports suggesting he has lingering problems with his ALC injuries. Also, Its two injuries on the same knee. Not both. 

 

 

I realize it's the same knee. I misspoke in the previous post. And I don't think I'm overplaying anything. He has NEVER played a full season. He played 30 games a year ago. Zero the year before. Only 51 the year before that. He can't stay healthy and he's never, ever, scored 40 NHL points in a season. That means, to me, that he should be at the very low end of the market and not at all near the top or average.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

9 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Being unbiased and acknowledging when your GM screws up = troll

Doing mental gymnastics to keep Yzerman on the midas pedestal he sits on in your head movies = advocating

Now I know.

Get fuked troll

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I have been around for a while and I've yet to see you "agree" with anyone. Stop being such a baby all of a sudden. 

You have an obvious anti-Yzerman bias and have the gall to say anyone that doesn't see this as a bad contract is some sort of Steve slappy. Why would I waste my time? 

I have been Fabbri's biggest advocate. I heaped praise on Yzerman for being astute enough to acquire him in a great deal. I defended Fabbri up and down this board against you Zadina slappies.

But now that Fabbri is getting overpaid on a new contract from Yzerman, and I'm honest enough to admit it, I'm a troll?

Hoooooo boyyyyyy

2 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Get fuked troll

Is this not exactly what Kip is talking about? Anyone who dares to disagree with Yzerman (and you) is now a troll who should get fuked...

Stimulating stuff guys