2021 Off-Season (Too Soon?)

[marcaractac 3,963]

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Hey man. I said I was glad to have you back. Sincerely.

Fav thing about you is that you don't dissolve into an infant when prodded. 

 

Ahh yes, throw out the insults cause you can't handle a little sarcasm. Cry me a river.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

Just now, marcaractac said:

Ahh yes, throw out the insults cause you can't handle a little sarcasm. Cry me a river.

 

3 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Yeah I can def see him being a big contributer on the PK as well. No debate there. I wanna see him as a middle 6 winger, forechecking beast. Being on wing would allow him to do a lot more of that stuff. 

Big contributor on the PP? You can see

Big contributor on the PK? You can see

MIDDLE SIX FORECHECKING BEAST!!!????? You wanna see

Waste of a pick? f*** it. Why not say this too. 

[marcaractac 3,963]

Just now, The 91 of Ryans said:

 

Big contributor on the PP? You can see

Big contributor on the PK? You can see

MIDDLE SIX FORECHECKING BEAST!!!????? You wanna see

Waste of a pick? f*** it. Why not say this too. 

Once again, one can disagree with the pick and still find positives in the player we got. Is that so difficult to understand? Not once did I say Ras is garbage, or useless, or anything even close. I've only ever said better players were available. 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

10 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Once again, one can disagree with the pick and still find positives in the player we got. Is that so difficult to understand? Not once did I say Ras is garbage, or useless, or anything even close. I've only ever said better players were available. 

Find positives? You have a guy that can play both PP and PK and can be a beast on the forecheck? Sounds like a great pick to me. 

My main issue is that it seems like people have unrealistic ideas about expected value based on draft positon. Especially with a unique player like Rasmussen. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by The 91 of Ryans

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

5 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Red Wings stats:

Forwards hits per game:

1. Erne
2. Rasmussen
3. Glendening

Forwards blocked shots per game:

1. Glendening
2. Rasmussen
3. Namestnikov

How much ya'll wanna bet Ras is number 1 in both those stats as early as next year?

I'll go one step further and say he challenges Glendenning for best faceoff %

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

49 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Don't agree even a little. Holmstrom did it in 2010  at 36 years old. You're honestly suggesting that hockey has changed so radically in 10 years that Holmstrom couldn't repeat that with 90-100 pt Datysyuk and Zberg? You're goofy friend.

I added the "Even with prime Zetterberg and Datsyuk" after, against my better judgement... He might be able to do it with those two, but Holmstrom would not put up 50 points seasons on this team, at the same age as Rasmussen, growing with this team.

52 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Okay, who's going above him in the first round to put him at 25? Good luck

I think I could easily name 18-20 players that are indisputable, and another 5-7 players that are debatable.

54 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Different players. Different positions. Totally different skill sets and attributes.

I was more just mocking your own hypocrisy with young players.

I have no issue with evaluating young players. I do have issue with completely writing off young players before they play a single game in the league. Like you did with Zadina. But I'm not getting into that again...

55 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

So you are aware that Hanzal was like a 50-60 pt center during his prime right?

No. I wasn't aware of that. As far as I knew he was an oft injured 30-40 point center that had a career high of 41 points in a season. 

I liked the Hanzal comp stylistically, but I don't think Ras will ever be a 50-60 point pace 2nd line center... I think he top out as a 30-40 point 3C/W, which is fine. Just not great value at 9th overall.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, BarkBurgerman said:

I'm willing to sacrifice some points and skill to get a unique player like this. I think his presence is going to greatly assist many of our skilled players in some very unique and intangible ways as well. Think about Lidstrom + Zetterberg + Datsyuk careers... now think about them without Holmstrom. Holmstrom was the perfect complimentary piece and I think Ras can be that and more for us.

Holmstrom was another late round gem, which is sort of the point. I don't think anyone has a problem with Rasmussen. I certainly don't. He was just taken too high for my liking. All of these big, strong, net front guys, can be had in the later rounds. Again, there's nothing special about Rasmussen's game, outside of his size, and ability in front of the net. If Ras were taken in the latter half of the 1st round, or 2nd round, everyone would be saying it was a great pick. 9th overall is literally the only debate for me. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

30 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

I don't expect Ras to put up 50 pt seasons on this team at his age either...

I meant if Holmstrom were 22 now, the same player he was, with the same wonky skating he had throughout his career, he wouldn't ever score 50 points in the league.

33 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

So do it

Hischier, Patrick, Heiskanen, Makar, Pettersson, Glass, Andersson, Mittelstadt, Tippett, Vilardi, Necas, Suzuki, Foote, Brannstrom, Valimaki, Liljegren, Norris, Thomas, Chytil, Yamamoto, Joseph, Frost, Jokiharju, Tolvanen, Kostin, Timmons, Hague, Robertson, Texier, Formenton, Volkov, Ferraro, Comtois, Mitchell, Geekie, Rathbone, Bryson, Bemstrom, Batherson, Kalynuk have all been at or above Rasmussen production wise. That's not to say I would take all of them above Rasmussen, but I would take a good portion of those guys above Ras without question.

33 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Maybe you should watch Griffins games then

I'll keep that in mind...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Forwards blocked shots per game:

1. Glendening
2. Rasmussen
3. Namestnikov

How much ya'll wanna bet Ras is number 1 in both those stats as early as next year?

I mean, yeah. He's pretty much another goalie out there.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

18 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Hischier, Patrick, Heiskanen, Makar, Pettersson, Glass, Andersson, Mittelstadt, Tippett, Vilardi, Necas, Suzuki, Foote, Brannstrom, Valimaki, Liljegren, Norris, Thomas, Chytil, Yamamoto, Joseph, Frost, Jokiharju, Tolvanen, Kostin, Timmons, Hague, Robertson, Texier, Formenton, Volkov, Ferraro, Comtois, Mitchell, Geekie, Rathbone, Bryson, Bemstrom, Batherson, Kalynuk 

I want Tippett and Hague.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 minute ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Valardi Necas and Suzuki have been much better

Hague is a 2nd rounder

You didn't get the joke.

[krsmith17 7,191]

32 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Hischier, Patrick, Heiskanen, Makar, Pettersson, Glass, Andersson (WRONG), Mittelstadt, Tippett, Vilardi, Necas, Suzuki, Foote (WRONG), Brannstrom (WRONG), Valimaki (WRONG), Liljegren (WRONG), Norris, Thomas, Chytil, Yamamoto, Joseph (WRONG), Frost (WRONG), Jokiharju, Tolvanen (WRONG), Kostin (WRONG),

Timmons, Hague, Robertson, Texier, Formenton, Volkov, Ferraro, Comtois, Mitchell, Geekie, Rathbone, Bryson, Bemstrom, Batherson, Kalynuk = are all 2nd rounders ya dink

That's not even remotely true

I see you've lose your edge in your time off. Shame.

Wasn't the point

I think every one of those players are at least debatably, some indisputably better than Ras. The point was where Rasmussen would go in a re-draft. So 2nd round players (and later) can go ahead of 1st round players (even top 10 picks) ya dink...

[krsmith17 7,191]

19 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Nah man I get it. Reading is hard.

Not sure I follow the logic of just including 1st rounders, but sure. Even if we're just including 1st rounders (not sure why), there are still easily 20 players as good or better than Rasmussen in my opinion. 

[LeftWinger 5,153]

I, for one, am hoping for more scenarios like this, instead of just signing aging UFA's (which I am not against either, but this is more exciting!)

https://thehockeywriters.com/penguins-red-wings-trade-partners-marcus-pettersson/?fbclid=IwAR1XslsMLjotTVV8RlJ_a8tsTqb9PqIL9OjD_fZpXUfmksibjkzMAV8NkLc

What do you say to Pettersson? LHD D, high potential, only 25, under contract for 4 more years. Fits the age for the rebuild as well! 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, BarkBurgerman said:

"Leftwinger is dumb"

Your "joke" connected about 10 years ago bro

It's literally from the same draft you've been fixated on for the last 3 pages. So pretty relevant I'd say.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

I am not taking sides here, but

https://dobberhockey.com/2019/12/28/the-journey-redrafting-the-2017-nhl-entry-draft/

https://www.rotowire.com/hockey/article.php?id=51205

https://morning-skate.com/2021/05/06/redrafting-the-top-10-of-the-2017-nhl-draft/

Not one of these redrafts has Rasmussen in the top 10. The first 2 don't even have him going in the 1st round at all. Ouch.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

I'll take those lumps! I was pretty annoying back then, especially during that draft! I forget, did we pass on Hague or did someone select him in the 2nd before us?

 

I'm cool though! The difference between now and then is now it's a legit joking point, back then I seriously pissed you guys off!  But honestly, with all the name changes, I am not even sure who I am talking to!

edit: looking at the draft, I see Vegas indeed selected him before us. We took Lindstrom. But (to bring in another older version of myself (just for fun)) Holland would have drafted the Swede anyhow!

Ok, ok, now back to the newer me!

Honestly I like and support Rasmussen, but hindsight, which doesn't really matter, maybe Suzuki or Foote. (obviously Necas is the handsdown one that stands out, so I was avoiding mentioning him.)

Edited June 30, 2021 by LeftWinger

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

24 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Sorry bro. U missed the boat. Making fun of leftwinger isn't cool anymore.

He brought it up at least once every single page back then. I thought it was fitting that a discussion about the 2017 draft mention it at least once. Calm down.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Gosh I'm really sorry I lost my lid and gate kept making fun of lefty

It's just that I like him more than I like you

We all know that's not true.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

35 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I'll take those lumps! I was pretty annoying back then, especially during that draft! I forget, did we pass on Hague or did someone select him in the 2nd before us?

 

I'm cool though! The difference between now and then is now it's a legit joking point, back then I seriously pissed you guys off!  But honestly, with all the name changes, I am not even sure who I am talking to!

edit: looking at the draft, I see Vegas indeed selected him before us. We took Lindstrom. But (to bring in another older version of myself (just for fun)) Holland would have drafted the Swede anyhow!

Ok, ok, now back to the newer me!

Honestly I like and support Rasmussen, but hindsight, which doesn't really matter, maybe Suzuki or Foote. (obviously Necas is the handsdown one that stands out, so I was avoiding mentioning him.)

I do it out of love Lefty. Xoxo

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 hours ago, BarkBurgerman said:

wat

 

[marcaractac 3,963]

16 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Find positives? You have a guy that can play both PP and PK and can be a beast on the forecheck? Sounds like a great pick to me. 

My main issue is that it seems like people have unrealistic ideas about expected value based on draft positon. Especially with a unique player like Rasmussen. 

In the end, all I'm saying is that I wish the pick was used on a guy like Necas instead, who will likely become a ppg center. Who is already at worst a legit 2C. 

[marcaractac 3,963]

15 hours ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Hey he's already improved his faceoffs by 8% this year and he's learning from he best in Glendening. Wasn't there a tweet from some insider saying that Ras takes face-offs with Glendog after games?

Yeah Ras and disney.com worked together at the end of every practice on face offs. Veleno did the same once he got the call up. Re-signing Glenny is a must, even if just to teach our young centers faceoffs. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

26 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

In the end, all I'm saying is that I wish the pick was used on a guy like Necas instead, who will likely become a ppg center. Who is already at worst a legit 2C. 

This is basically all any of us have been saying... No one thinks Rasmussen is a bad player, just that he was a reach at 9th overall, when there were clearly better options on the board.

This team and this rebuild would look dramatically different (much better) if we had Necas instead of Rasmussen...

Raymond - Larkin - Bertuzzi
Vrana - Necas - Zadina
Fabbri - Veleno - Berggren
Smith - Pearson - Erne

ToO SoFt ThOuGh...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

This is basically all any of us have been saying... No one thinks Rasmussen is a bad player, just that he was a reach at 9th overall, when there were clearly better options on the board.

This team and this rebuild would look dramatically different (much better) if we had Necas instead of Rasmussen...

Raymond - Larkin - Bertuzzi
Vrana - Necas - Zadina
Fabbri - Veleno - Berggren
Smith - Pearson - Erne

ToO SoFt ThOuGh...

Cute but true. That lineup (especially the top 6) would get caved innnnnn