2021 Off-Season (Too Soon?)

[krsmith17 7,191]

17 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

This is basically all any of us have been saying... No one thinks Zadina is a bad player, just that he was a reach at 6th overall, when there were clearly better options on the board.

This team and this rebuild would look dramatically different (much better) if we had Hughes instead of Zadina...

LOL

If this was basically all you have been saying, you wouldn't have received much (if any) debate at all. The problem is, that's not at all what you were saying. You called Zadina a bust before he ever played a single game for the Red Wings...

Also, Zadina was not a reach. Not even close. Most Wings fans went into the 2018 draft, hoping that Zadina would fall to 6. Understanding that it was a long shot. He fell, Holland picked him, and Red Wings fans everywhere (except mackel) rejoiced...

The year prior, going into the 2017 draft, myself, and a few others were hoping we would take pretty much any player, other than Rasmussen. Big Ras was a reach. Zadina was not.

9 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Cute but true. That lineup (especially the top 6) would get caved innnnnn

For sure. That Palat - Point - Kucherov line really seems to struggle (gets caved innnnnn), especially in the playoffs...

Regardless, you want to add more size and grit to that top six? Not hard. Draft a player in the 2nd or 3rd round that can bring a physical element. Trade one of the many small, skilled wingers, for a big boi winger. Sign one of the many grit guys in free agency every year. Just don't waste a top 10 pick on one...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

16 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

LOL

If this was basically all you have been saying, you wouldn't have received much (if any) debate at all. The problem is, that's not at all what you were saying. You called Zadina a bust before he ever played a single game for the Red Wings...

Also, Zadina was not a reach. Not even close. Most Wings fans went into the 2018 draft, hoping that Zadina would fall to 6. Understanding that it was a long shot. He fell, Holland picked him, and Red Wings fans everywhere (except mackel) rejoiced...

The year prior, going into the 2017 draft, myself, and a few others were hoping we would take pretty much any player, other than Rasmussen. Big Ras was a reach. Zadina was not.

For sure. That Palat - Point - Kucherov line really seems to struggle (gets caved innnnnn), especially in the playoffs...

Regardless, you want to add more size and grit to that top six? Not hard. Draft a player in the 2nd or 3rd round that can bring a physical element. Trade one of the many small, skilled wingers, for a big boi winger. Sign one of the many grit guys in free agency every year. Just don't waste a top 10 pick on one...

Except Yzerman doesn't have to do that now because Rasmussen exists. Now let's go to work getting a Suzuki or Necas in the 10 - 20 range. How hard can that be? They both went 10 - 20 in what is apparently one of the crappiest drafts evah.........

[marcaractac 3,963]

3 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Zadina should have gone about 3-7 picks later, just like Ras.

>Ras is young
>Too soon for a verdict
>Wait and see
>He'll get there
>Trust me

Recognize that list of excuses? Time to trot them out. Give Ras a chance mkay?

This I agree with. Zadina should have probably gone at about where Ras went in his own draft. 

I really hope you're right about the whole 25g35a thing. I think he'll be more of a 15-20 goal, 20 assist player. More of a really good role player than a core guy. I also expect him to score more of his points on the pp than 5v5. I hope you're right in this case. It would certainly soften the blow of not taking a guy like Necas instead.  

[LeftWinger 5,130]

28 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

For sure. That Palat - Point - Kucherov line really seems to struggle

Speaking of Palat, to go along with the below quote from me yesterday and one that I put in the draft thread, Tampa will be in DIRE need to shed salary this off season. Palat has the one year left at $5.3M. It won't solve all their problems, but it would bring them just under the cap, although they would need about 4-5 more players signed, they'd be at 18. Anyhow How about Palat, Alnefelt for a 4th at the draft? Then we can use #6 on skater that we need.

Aslo, more specifically regarding the below idea, Pettersson for a 3rd at the draft.

we have two 3rds and two 4ths and of course plenty of cap space. Palat can be a salary dump to help them and get us a top goalie prospect, and Pettersson can be a salary dump for Pittsburgh as they look to reload for better run. Like mentioned below, Pettersson fits the age range, and rebuild timeline, PLUS is a higher end prospect on the LH side. In reagards to G's, I am pretty convinced Bernier is going UFA and trying to land on a team with Cup chances, maybe even back to Colorado. I am ok with that because with better D, Greiss will be better and I am also ok with trying to get Mrazek back. But there are other options like Ullmark for example. Another one to consider could be Chris Driedger from Florida. With Bobrovsky tied up and Knight emerging, Driedger could be looking to go somewhere for playing time. Plus he's only 27.  We can acquire Alnefelt, get Petruzzelli signed and maybe even draft a G later in the draft...or maybe even Cossa if he's there at 22.

15 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I, for one, am hoping for more scenarios like this, instead of just signing aging UFA's (which I am not against either, but this is more exciting!)

https://thehockeywriters.com/penguins-red-wings-trade-partners-marcus-pettersson/?fbclid=IwAR1XslsMLjotTVV8RlJ_a8tsTqb9PqIL9OjD_fZpXUfmksibjkzMAV8NkLc

What do you say to Pettersson? LHD D, high potential, only 25, under contract for 4 more years. Fits the age for the rebuild as well! 

I brought this back up, because all the back and forth about Rasmussen was clogging the subject up. There is nothing we can do about 2017 now, we just need to hope he turns out to be that middle 6 guy, net front presence that he was touted to be when drafted. Unless we're talking about trading him in this off season.

sidenote: the difference between Ras and Zadina is, in 2017, I don't think anyone knew if they had their eye on anyone, so even though it seemed Ras was taken a bit early, other than fan favorites being passed on, there wasn't any instant loss. With Zadina, everyone and their sisters knew Holland was eyeing D, the consensus was Hughes, but rumors was Bouchard, either way, D was the way they were going, then when Zadina fell (for good reason I believe) Holland totally flipped on the plan and drafted him. Although in hindsight, taking Ras instead of a few other names mentioned already, looks like a mistake years later, taking Zadina instead of Hughes looked like a mistake more quickly. But can't change it now, I only hope they both continue the trend from last season and get better and better, or both of these could end up another Keith Primeau/Joe Murphy screw up.

Edited June 30, 2021 by LeftWinger

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

19 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

LOL

If this was basically all you have been saying, you wouldn't have received much (if any) debate at all. The problem is, that's not at all what you were saying. You called Zadina a bust before he ever played a single game for the Red Wings...

Also, Zadina was not a reach. Not even close. Most Wings fans went into the 2018 draft, hoping that Zadina would fall to 6. Understanding that it was a long shot. He fell, Holland picked him, and Red Wings fans everywhere (except mackel) rejoiced...

The year prior, going into the 2017 draft, myself, and a few others were hoping we would take pretty much any player, other than Rasmussen. Big Ras was a reach. Zadina was not.

For sure. That Palat - Point - Kucherov line really seems to struggle (gets caved innnnnn), especially in the playoffs...

Regardless, you want to add more size and grit to that top six? Not hard. Draft a player in the 2nd or 3rd round that can bring a physical element. Trade one of the many small, skilled wingers, for a big boi winger. Sign one of the many grit guys in free agency every year. Just don't waste a top 10 pick on one...

Except big Ras went exactly where he was supposed to go give or take a couple of spots. Regardless of what you and a few others thought. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

10 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Zadina should have gone about 3-7 picks later, just like Ras.

>Ras is young
>Too soon for a verdict
>Wait and see
>He'll get there
>Trust me

Recognize that list of excuses? Time to trot them out. Give Ras a chance mkay?

Sure, and they're all fair excuses reasons to give Rasmussen more time. He is young. He will improve. I don't think he'll ever be better than a handful of other players I would have taken in that spot though. And that's the point here. I'm not saying Rasmussen is a bust. I'm not saying to trade his ass. I'm simply saying we could have made better use of that pick.

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Except Yzerman doesn't have to do that now because Rasmussen exists. Now let's go to work getting a Suzuki or Necas in the 10 - 20 range. How hard can that be? They both went 10 - 20 in what is apparently one of the crappiest drafts evah.........

Sure, let's do that.

 

5 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Except big Ras went exactly where he was supposed to go give or take a couple of spots. Regardless of what you and a few others thought. 

Based on what? McKenzie's list? His rankings are based on information from NHL scouts... He was probably ranked at 9 because he caught wind that the Red Wings were really high on him. A few other outlets had him in that range as well, but there were also quite a few that had him in the late teens, early twenty's, where I personally think he should have gone.

But myself and a few others thought right... at least so far...

Maybe Rasmussen pops off and becomes a stud shut-down 2C that puts up 50-60 points. I just don't see it. I hope I'm wrong...

[krsmith17 7,191]

15 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Anyhow How about Palat, Alnefelt for a 4th at the draft? Then we can use #6 on skater that we need.

I'm all for "helping" Tampa out to take Alnefelt off their hands.

Palat (1 year at $5.3M), Johnson (3 years at $5M), or Killorn (2 years at $4.45M)...

[LeftWinger 5,130]

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm all for "helping" Tampa out to take Alnefelt off their hands.

Palat (1 year at $5.3M), Johnson (3 years at $5M), or Killorn (2 years at $4.45M)...

The only issue is, all of them have some kind of control (M-NTC) where they go. Obviously NTC and even NMC can be waived, but would any of those three waive it to come here? I went with Palat because he had the highest salary plus it was only one year. But ya, to get that G prospect, I'd even take two of these guys! prefer Palat and Killorn. I'd also up the pick to a 3rd!

to TPA : 2021 3rd round draft pick

to DET : Andrej Palat, Alex Killorn, Hugo Alnefelt

I'd have to change up the Pit trade though since I don't want to lose both 3rd rounders:

to PIT : 2021 4th round draft pick, rights to Evgeny Svechnikov (or maybe a D prospect)

to DET : Markus Pettersson

of our UFA's I resign Ryan, Glendening and Staal. Then I sign either Ullmark or Driedger to play with Greiss. I still draft D at #6( prefer Hughes or Edvinsson) but if a hot FWD is there, maybe him.

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by LeftWinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

10 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Hey Ras was just focused on improving his defensive game this season - just like Larkin and Zadina.

The production will come. He'll be a top4 pucking moving Dman in no time. Bank on it.

Based on this, I'm going to assume no matter how many times I say that I'm not down on Rasmussen, I'm down on where he was picked, it's not going to sink in...

I'm done with this convo, but I'll just say one more time, I really do hope you and @The 91 of Ryans are right, and Big Ras becomes a monster for us in a couple years.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

9 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

The only issue is, all of them have some kind of control (M-NTC) where they go. Obviously NTC and even NMC can be waived, but would any of those three waive it to come here? I went with Palat because he had the highest salary plus it was only one year. But ya, to get that G prospect, I'd even take two of these guys! prefer Palat and Killorn. I'd also up the pick to a 3rd!

to TPA : 2021 3rd round draft pick

to DET : Andrej Palat, Alex Killorn, Hugo Alnefelt

I'd have to change up the Pit trade though since I don't want to lose both 3rd rounders:

to PIT : 2021 4th round draft pick, rights to Evgeny Svechnikov (or maybe a D prospect)

to DET : Markus Pettersson

of our UFA's I resign Ryan, Glendening and Staal. Then I sign either Ullmark or Driedger to play with Greiss. I still draft D at #6( prefer Hughes or Edvinsson) but if a hot FWD is there, maybe him.

 

Not keen on Pettersson. But if it were to happen I'd like to see Yzerman make those f***ers give Detroit Pettersson and a 2nd for that 4th and Svech. 

No one get's any favors from the Wings! Especially not rival teams in the East. 

[LeftWinger 5,130]

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Not keen on Pettersson. But if it were to happen I'd like to see Yzerman make those f***ers give Detroit Pettersson and a 2nd for that 4th and Svech. 

No one get's any favors from the Wings! Especially not rival teams in the East. 

If anyone can do it, Yzerman can! Look what he got from The Rangers!

[krsmith17 7,191]

16 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

The only issue is, all of them have some kind of control (M-NTC) where they go. Obviously NTC and even NMC can be waived, but would any of those three waive it to come here? I went with Palat because he had the highest salary plus it was only one year. But ya, to get that G prospect, I'd even take two of these guys! prefer Palat and Killorn. I'd also up the pick to a 3rd!

to TPA : 2021 3rd round draft pick

to DET : Andrej Palat, Alex Killorn, Hugo Alnefelt

I wouldn't take on both of those contracts. Both have been productive in Tampa, but neither would put up near those point totals in Detroit. Tampa would make that deal in a heartbeat though. They'll be desperate to move one or both of those players.

[LeftWinger 5,130]

Just now, krsmith17 said:

I wouldn't take on both of those contracts. Both have been productive in Tampa, but neither would put up near those point totals in Detroit. Tampa would make that deal in a heartbeat though. They'll be desperate to move one or both of those players.

That is why I think it would be a good deal both ways. We have the cap, we need the G prospect, they need the cap. We could use them as TDL fodder to get a couple of 3rds back maybe. The only thing is, with the RFA's that will be re-signed, acquiring those 2 plus Pettersson fills up our roster pretty quickly! Might not be room for Ryan or Staal, but I'd be ok with that too. Depending on who who lose to Seattle also.

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

>Not down on Rasmussen
>But also don't believe he'll develop like a top10 pick

You're goofy

Yes. Both can very much be true. Not sure why that's so difficult to understand.

I also like Cholowski, but I wouldn't have been happy if Holland picked him in the top 10 with Sergachev, Bean and Chychrun still on the board... Cholowski was picked right around where Rasmussen should have been picked, is producing at a similar clip, despite being a defenseman, but Cholowski "sucks", and Ras is destined for greatness... Makes sense...

[F.Michael 4,590]

TBH - looking back at the 2017 draft today - Suzuki is the only guy that really jumps out after Rasmountain.

[F.Michael 4,590]

What was Bergevin thinking in 2018 - coulda hada a Tkachuk ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NHL_Entry_Draft

 

[LeftWinger 5,130]

One thing we do have to remember is Givani Smith is out of waivers. If he gets protected, odds are he'll get a 2-3 year deal and he will have to be in Detroit to avoid the waiver wire. Same goes for Cholowski and Lindstrom, no waivers exemption. So in my scenario above, losing a player to Seattle, then having Smith here puts me back at 25 players if I re-sign Ryan and Staal. If I am acquiring salary to gain assets then I guess I can let Staal and Ryan go. But I will screw around with the Armchair GM a bit to see what I can do.

This will be a tough go if Seattle takes a FWD or Heaven forbid, Yzerman leave Stecher unprotected and they choose him.

Edited June 30, 2021 by LeftWinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

>Zadina selected at 6th
>I don't believe he'll develop like a 6th overall pick
>I am down on Zadina

>Cholowski selected at 20th
>I don't believe he'll develop like a 20th overall pick
>I am down on Cholowski

>Rasmussen selected at 9th
>You don't believe he'll develop like a 9th overall pick
>But you are NOT down on Rasmussen

Logic

Not at all how any of that went down... You've called Zadina a "bust", and said both Zadina and Cholowski "suck". That's not simply saying that you don't believe they will develop like where they were picked... I've never said Rasmussen sucks. Just that there were better players to choose from where he was picked. I said it on draft day, and I maintain that stance today.

If you were banging on the table for DeBrincat in 2016, and Hughes in 2018, I'd understand you saying we should have taken those guys instead of Cholowski and Zadina. You weren't though. 

Anyway, I'm done.

7 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

This will be a tough go if Seattle takes a FWD or Heaven forbid, Yzerman leave Stecher unprotected and they choose him.

Stecher should be protected over Lindstrom.

[LeftWinger 5,130]

So here's where I sit with my trades from above and re-signing our RFA's and the 3 UFA's. I also signed Ullmark as our 2nd G. Disregard to salaries because I just threw some numbers in there to get the rosters together. We have plenty of cap space so give or take whatever with the salaries I did. I am at 26 players without removing one for Seattle. Both Alnefelt and Newpower can safely be sent to GR with waiver exposure. I am in a pickle. I can probably do without Staal, but he was one of our solid bright spots last season back there. Also I forgot I am using a buyout of Nielsen, so that helps. So I now sit at 25 before removing a player to Seattle. Do I trade for both of the Tampa guys or sign Ryan? Do I not re-sign Staal? I feel I have to re-sign Glenny. But anyhow here's how I look, remember one of these players will be off to Seattle. Also, I did not align them to position,so disregard that too.

 

Honestly though, as much as I want him here and make the roster, Veleno can also be safely sent to GR to start the season. So remove him, lose a player in expansion (unless they sign one of our UFA's) and I am right at 23. Bring it on!

On 6/30/2021 at 11:05 AM, krsmith17 said:

Stecher should be protected over Lindstrom.

I agree 1,000,000%

but has Cholowski earned it over Lindstrom? Shoot, maybe they sign Helm as a UFA and that would count as our loss. I think, right? Because they have two days of expiring UFA negotiating before the draft, so technically Helm would not yet be a UFA.

Edited July 22, 2022 by LeftWinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

41 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I agree 1,000,000%

but has Cholowski earned it over Lindstrom? 

In my opinion, Cholowski has earned it over Lindstrom. But it's not just about what they've done so far in their early careers. It's also about how you project them. If everything goes right for Lindstrom, he's a solid 3rd pair, stay-at-home defenseman that can kill penalties. That sort of defenseman can be acquired any year via free agency or low cost trade. If everything goes right for Cholowski, he could be a 2nd pair, puck-moving defenseman that can quarterback a power-play. These players are a little harder to find, and cost a little more in free agency / trade.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

 

 

 

[Akakabuto 1,842]

Just now, The 91 of Ryans said:

 

 

 

One of the requirements of getting a job on the Detroit bench is being bald isn't?

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

5 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

One of the requirements of getting a job on the Detroit bench is being bald isn't?

Someone on Twitter posted this gif

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by The 91 of Ryans

[kipwinger 8,755]

"Tanguay, 41, has spent the last two years as an assistant coach with the American Hockey League's Iowa Wild. Over those two seasons, the Wild combined for a 54-31-8-4 record, with a second place finish in the Central Division and Western Conference during the 2019-20 campaign. Iowa had the AHL's fifth-best power play in Tanguay's first season behind the bench at 21.9 percent, and its offense was among the league's most productive, improving from 3.08 goals per game in 2019-20 to 3.15 goals per game over a 34-game schedule in 2020-21. The Wild also had the second-best shot-per-game average in the AHL in each of the past two seasons, averaging 32.68 combined in Tanguay's tenure with the club."

https://www.nhl.com/redwings/news/red-wings-hire-alex-tanguay-as-assistant-coach/c-325526982