2021 Off-Season (Too Soon?)

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

2 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

No it's not that bad in terms of trade value. But what a lot of folks are saying is "Lol Holland actually PAID for Chicago's cap dump". If Keith can get back to 30 pts and not be so exposed with the Oilers it'll be great for the Oilers. But if he's still an old broken down 20 pt Dman it'll look really bad. Not because of the trade value, but because of the cap hit Keith is eating up. Holland had money (again) and spent it poorly (again).

Well loooggout cuz he has approx.15M left to spend on only 4 players

 

[F.Michael 4,590]

23 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Well loooggout cuz he has approx.15M left to spend on only 4 players

 

Holland is gonna send Draisaitl our way  for the #6, and #23 picks to create cap space.

[krsmith17 7,191]

35 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

No it's not that bad in terms of trade value. But what a lot of folks are saying is "Lol Holland actually PAID for Chicago's cap dump". If Keith can get back to 30 pts and not be so exposed with the Oilers it'll be great for the Oilers. But if he's still an old broken down 20 pt Dman it'll look really bad. Not because of the trade value, but because of the cap hit Keith is eating up. Holland had money (again) and spent it poorly (again).

I don't think that's far out of reach for Keith at all though. He was on pace for 23 points this past season, and 36 the season before, on a very bad Hawks team. I'm betting on a bounce back for him next season. 30+ points. There's something to be said about what he could teach some of the young guys as well. I would think a kid like Bouchard could learn a lot from a vet like Keith.

26 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

I am not the least bit interested in Ryan Suter. It never ceases to amaze me how many of you preach youth and damn players like Nielsen and Filppula, then go "OMG 36 YEAR OLD SUTER IS AVAILABLE!" Or "Stecher! These are the types of players we need... WAIT WE CAN RE-SIGN MARC STAAL!?!?"

Ryan Suter is a relic whose time has come and gone. And not the sort of player we should be investing money, time, or roster position into. I'd take just about anyone else with a smidget of youth over him... McCabe, Oleksiak, Oesterle... One could emerge as a long time top4 Dman for us. All Ryan Suter will do is decline rapidly from here on in.

THIS is the time for projects. A soon to be 37 year old Dman is not a project.

Really hope the Olsen twins demand a package deal again lmao and Yzerman steers clear of that dramatic disaster.

We don't really have many defensive prospects banging down the door. Yzerman will sign a veteran free agent, and for me, I'd much rather sign Ryan Sutter short-term, than any of the guys you mentioned, depending on term of course.

[F.Michael 4,590]

1 minute ago, BarkBurgerman said:

What would you define as Holland's skill?

I'd say it's literally re-signing. His biggest strength is re-signing the talent he already has. After that he's completely subpar. This Keith thing likely bites him in the ass like usual. 

As time moves along...I'd say Holland appears to be an older version of Dubas.

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Keith isn't 35, he's friggin 38. To assume a 2 year 5 mil contract for a 38 year old Dman is so risky. I really hope it works for them cause I do have a soft spot for Holland. Keith will certainly be a good mentor, I'm just very suspicious that that contract won't be hurting them very soon. Like in a few months.

Look at it from Bowman's perspective. He just cap dumped a useless player for himself and got value for it. Holland should have made them retain or not jumped the gun on this with Suter available.

Absolutely. Like I said, I don't think this trade is nearly as bad as some are making it out to be. Holland lost two insignificant pieces, BUT he should have got him at 50% retained salary.

6 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Stecher = good signing
Filppula = bad signing

Follow this algorithm to its logical end.

Ummm yeah. Stecher was a good signing. Filppula was a bad signing... Are you debating this?

[diehardredwingsfan58 123]

2 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Wonder if the Wild are taking a hard run at Eichel...........

With $13,000,000 in dead money next year and $14,600,000 in dead cap the next 2 years after that. highly unlikely good luck with him even being able to afford Kaprizov let alone adding Eichel to the mix.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

22 hours ago, Dabura said:

Sure. I agree that losing Hyman and gaining Bertuzzi probably doesn't move the needle for the Leafs. I was speaking more to the past, i.e. a 2020-2021 Leafs team featuring both Hyman and Bertuzzi. They've both shown they can handle the 45/55 zone starts usage; put them in the same lineup and suddenly you've doubled your shutdown pleasure.

I dont think they could afford both. I think Toronto was losing Hymen and replacing him with Bert.

3 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

The Athletic: Wild to buy out Parise and Suter per sources

It's reverse 2012

21 is the reverse of 12

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

6 minutes ago, diehardredwingsfan58 said:

With $13,000,000 in dead money next year and $14,600,000 in dead cap the next 2 years after that. highly unlikely good luck with him even being able to afford Kaprizov let alone adding Eichel to the mix.

Kaprizov and Fiala can sing RFA bridge deals to help get the team through the mud. 

There would most likely be salary going the other way in a trade.  Rask's 4M comes off the books next year. yada yada

Even with the Parise and Suter's dead cap, the Wild have 26M this year and next year in cap space. 

They were rumored to be a favorite to land Eichel before the buyouts. The cap space hasn't really changed that much with these buyouts.

Don't see how it's impossible.

 

 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, BarkBurgerman said:

No it's not that bad in terms of trade value. But what a lot of folks are saying is "Lol Holland actually PAID for Chicago's cap dump". If Keith can get back to 30 pts and not be so exposed with the Oilers it'll be great for the Oilers. But if he's still an old broken down 20 pt Dman it'll look really bad. Not because of the trade value, but because of the cap hit Keith is eating up. Holland had money (again) and spent it poorly (again).

This.

[LeftWinger 4,963]

so when are the protected list required to be submitted? I am getting antsy and want this off-season to officially kick off!

[Dabura 12,207]

13 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I dont think they could afford both. I think Toronto was losing Hymen and replacing him with Bert.

You mean last season?

[Dabura 12,207]

1 hour ago, BarkBurgerman said:

I am not the least bit interested in Ryan Suter. It never ceases to amaze me how many of you preach youth and damn players like Nielsen and Filppula, then go "OMG 36 YEAR OLD SUTER IS AVAILABLE!" Or "Stecher! These are the types of players we need... WAIT WE CAN RE-SIGN MARC STAAL!?!?"

Ryan Suter is a relic whose time has come and gone. And not the sort of player we should be investing money, time, or roster position into. I'd take just about anyone else with a smidget of youth over him... McCabe, Oleksiak, Oesterle... One could emerge as a long time top4 Dman for us. All Ryan Suter will do is decline rapidly from here on in.

THIS is the time for projects. A soon to be 37 year old Dman is not a project.

Really hope the Olsen twins demand a package deal again lmao and Yzerman steers clear of that dramatic disaster.

He could be six years younger and I still wouldn't take him. Because of 2012. F*** that guy.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, BarkBurgerman said:

The deal should've been Keith 50% retained for Edmonton's 6th.

I disagree. It depends how much you think Keith has left in the tank. If you think he's done, and he'll only put up 10-15 points, playing 40 games each of the next two seasons, maybe I'd agree. But I think he'll be a solid, top four, that can put up 25-30 points the next two seasons. To me, that's worth more than a 6th round pick, regardless of age. Again, just overpaid.

1 hour ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Analogies too confusing huh?

YOUNG PLAYER GOOD
OLD PLAYER BAD

That should clear things up for you

No, it doesn't really clear anything up actually...

Yes, generally young players are good, and old players are bad. What's your point? It's obviously not always the case, which is why Suter good, McCabe bad, despite being nearly 10 years older...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

You mean last season?

Isnt Hymen UFA?

[LeftWinger 4,963]

46 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Isnt Hymen UFA?

yes

[krsmith17 7,191]

21 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Suter to the Detroit = no point

Coming from the guy that wanted to sign Eric f***ing Gelinas... LOL

36-38 year old Ryan Suter >>>>> 30-32 year old Eric Gelinas

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

Dreger still believes the Wild are going to make an offer for Eichel 

https://www.tsn.ca/NHL/video/insider-trading-whats-next-for-the-wild-after-buying-out-parise-~2240888

 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

I liked the idea of Alec Martinez, but I would be ok with Suter pairing with Mo. I am just big on pairing noobs (Seider, Cholowski, Lindstrom) with vets.

[F.Michael 4,590]

6 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I liked the idea of Alec Martinez, but I would be ok with Suter pairing with Mo. I am just big on pairing noobs (Seider, Cholowski, Lindstrom) with vets.

Cholo is the new Brendan Smith...

[krsmith17 7,191]

23 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Dreger still believes the Wild are going to make an offer for Eichel 

https://www.tsn.ca/NHL/video/insider-trading-whats-next-for-the-wild-after-buying-out-parise-~2240888

Retarded dink...

15 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Cholo is the new Brendan Smith...

You're the new Brendan Smith...

23 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I liked the idea of Alec Martinez, but I would be ok with Suter pairing with Mo. I am just big on pairing noobs (Seider, Cholowski, Lindstrom) with vets.

Yeah, Martinez and Suter are the two I would target in free agency. As long as they're reasonable cap hit (to possibly flip at the deadline), and low term (1-2 years). Either would be a great compliment to Seider.

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Retarded dink...

You're the new Brendan Smith...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

15 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Classic. 

[F.Michael 4,590]

31 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Classic. 

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

20 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

No doubt in my mind a 40 year old Suter is probably better than a 30 year old Gelinas.

But Eric Gelinas probably has 5-7 more years of hockey in him, Suter has 2? Maybe 4?

Hockey? Sure. NHL hockey? Not a chance.

Suter probably only has another couple years of top four left in him. Which is why anyone that would want to sign him, would only want to sign him for 1-2 years...

23 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

There's absolutely no reason to be signing players who will retire before the rebuild is over unless you purely want to trade them like Bobby Ryan. I doubt Suter will be signing with a team intent on trading him.

There absolutely is a reason, and that reason is, the Detroit Red Wings still need to ice an NHL caliber hockey team. Yzerman won't be taking any shortcuts, but he will want to be competitive through the rest of this rebuild. There are no prospects banging down the door, but in 2-3 years, there should be a number of guys on the cusp of making the jump. McIsaac, Sebrango, Johansson, Wallinder, Viro, etc will all be knocking by the time Suter is ready to retire...

Regardless which player is better / would be the better fit (it's Suter), the timeline (2 years) fits better than any of the younger options (4+ years). 

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 hours ago, BarkBurgerman said:

I never claimed Gelinas would be anything more than an Ian White type of experiment. If we signed Gelinas like the Canes did we'd still have to go out and sign a Suter or some other player. Gelinas is just a Biega replacement that you gamble on maybe having chemistry with Seider and securing a position.

So you're whataboutism attempt at a Gelinas v Suter dig doesn't make much sense.

You're the one not making much sense here... You're advocating to add a Biega type replacement (Gelinas) to pair with Seider, but think it would be dumb to add Suter to pair with Seider. You've already admitted Suter (very obviously) being the better player. Why wouldn't you want a better player to pair with your up and coming stud defenseman? Seider could learn a ton from a player like Suter. 

We don't need a Biega replacement. Up your standards. Biega sucks. We currently have Cholowski and DeKeyser on the left side, and Seider, Hronek, Stecher and Lindstrom on the right side. We need another left-handed defenseman, and I think Suter would be a great fit, until one (two) of the aforementioned players is ready to take Suter's (and Dekeyser's) spot in the lineup.

8 hours ago, BarkBurgerman said:

I'd much rather have our prospects be forced to dethrone a Jamie Oleksiak, and then us having a 31 year old Jamie Oleksiak to trade in 3 years if they do. Rather than Suter devolving into a slow 15 pt Dman, retiring and giving us nothing, and then the prospect is gifted a spot.

Sure, but you're thinking worst case scenario with Suter. I think he will be a solid top four defenseman (at worst) for the next two seasons. And for that reason, I think he would hold more value as a trade chip at the '23 deadline.

Oleksiak is a solid defenseman, and I've actually mentioned his name as a possible target in the past. I wouldn't be upset if he was our target, I'd just personally prefer Suter.