2023 Trade Deadline Thread

[Axl Foley 318]

16 hours ago, Walman6million said:

Per Friedman - Bertuzzi OFF the market, SY not looking to trade him.

Bertuzzi haters boned in the ass AGAIN!

they enjoy it

[diehardredwingsfan58 156]

On 2/17/2023 at 7:02 PM, Jonas Mahonas said:

https://thehockeywriters.com/red-wings-chiarot-trade-bait-land-jakob-chychrun/

 

This is serious reefer material.

Yeah i believe those guys have a serious drug issue.

On 2/16/2023 at 3:43 PM, Jonas Mahonas said:

Chiarot sucks at the left side.  Does this mean he can suck on the right too?

Your answer to both is, 100% YES.

[redw1ngs 149]

Chiarot isnt as bad as wings fans make him out to be. Hes overpaid and because of that overutilized but hes still a good dman. If he was at $2.5m playing pair 3 hed be great. Its Ericsson all over again and fans are having the exact same overreaction.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

8 minutes ago, redw1ngs said:

Chiarot isnt as bad as wings fans make him out to be. Hes overpaid and because of that overutilized but hes still a good dman. If he was at $2.5m playing pair 3 hed be great. Its Ericsson all over again and fans are having the exact same overreaction.

He sucks, bro.  He literally cannot defend.

[Walman6million 250]

[Walman6million 250]

50+ games in. Here's Lalonde's usage of the team by TOI/PG:

1. Larkin
2. Copp
3. Raymond
4. Perron
5. Fabbri
6. Bertuzzi
7. Rasmussen
8. Kubalik
9. Sundqvist
10. Erne <-------- waived to GR
11. Berggren
12. Suter
13. Zadina
14. Veleno
15. Soderblom <------- waived to GR

*** Vrana ***

1. Seider
2. Hronek
3. Chiarot
4. Walman
5. Maata
6. Hagg
7. Oesterle
8. Lindstrom

Berggren has already leapfrogged Zadina and Veleno. Soderblom will probably do it next season. It's time to use Zadina and Veleno in a trade package while they still have some value.

On a good team I think Kubalik and Sunny would be 4th liners. Another solid forward (plus Vrana) and we could be there.

Copp hasn't blown the doors off, but I think he's been a solid stable 2C presence thats gone unappreciated. I like right where Ras is. I don't think he's going to be a top6 forward at this point, but a very solid 3rd liner who can slot into the top6 when needed.

Lindstrom can join Veleno and Zadina in a trade package. Anyone below Maata shouldn't be re-signed, and we can make way for Edvinsson. 

[Axl Foley 318]

5 hours ago, Walman6million said:

50+ games in. Here's Lalonde's usage of the team by TOI/PG:

1. Larkin
2. Copp
3. Raymond
4. Perron
5. Fabbri
6. Bertuzzi
7. Rasmussen
8. Kubalik
9. Sundqvist
10. Erne <-------- waived to GR
11. Berggren
12. Suter
13. Zadina
14. Veleno
15. Soderblom <------- waived to GR

*** Vrana ***

1. Seider
2. Hronek
3. Chiarot
4. Walman
5. Maata
6. Hagg
7. Oesterle
8. Lindstrom

Berggren has already leapfrogged Zadina and Veleno. Soderblom will probably do it next season. It's time to use Zadina and Veleno in a trade package while they still have some value.

On a good team I think Kubalik and Sunny would be 4th liners. Another solid forward (plus Vrana) and we could be there.

Copp hasn't blown the doors off, but I think he's been a solid stable 2C presence thats gone unappreciated. I like right where Ras is. I don't think he's going to be a top6 forward at this point, but a very solid 3rd liner who can slot into the top6 when needed.

Lindstrom can join Veleno and Zadina in a trade package. Anyone below Maata shouldn't be re-signed, and we can make way for Edvinsson. 

Kubalik is not a 4th liner. He is scoring at 0.67 P/GP rate this season. That's 54 points over a full season. Like Fabbri, He is a middle six F even on a good team.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Axl Foley

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

5 hours ago, Walman6million said:

50+ games in. Here's Lalonde's usage of the team by TOI/PG:

1. Larkin
2. Copp
3. Raymond
4. Perron
5. Fabbri
6. Bertuzzi
7. Rasmussen
8. Kubalik
9. Sundqvist
10. Erne <-------- waived to GR
11. Berggren
12. Suter
13. Zadina
14. Veleno
15. Soderblom <------- waived to GR

*** Vrana ***

1. Seider
2. Hronek
3. Chiarot (SOFT)
4. Walman
5. Maata
6. Hagg
7. Oesterle
8. Lindstrom

 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

Bertuzzi + half salary retention to Stars for Logan Stankoven + 2023 2nd rnd.  Dont think we can pry Wyatt Johnston from Dallas, but I bet we could get Stankoven.  This woild be a good move.  Get younger and cheaper, while switching a lefty for righty.

[Walman6million 250]

1 hour ago, Axl Foley said:

Kubalik is not a 4th liner. He is scoring at 0.67 P/GP rate this season. That's 54 points over a full season. Like Fabbri, He is a middle six F even on a good team.

Kubalik WAS scoring like that back in Oct/Nov. He came out the gate screaming just like Husso, i wont deny that, but he has since regressed back to a much more pedestrian pace. 

Hes got 12 pts in his last 30 games now. Which is pace for a 33 pt season. And he doesnt bring much else to the table. A stanley cup team should force a guy like that down to the 4th.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

2 hours ago, Walman6million said:

Kubalik WAS scoring like that back in Oct/Nov. He came out the gate screaming just like Husso, i wont deny that, but he has since regressed back to a much more pedestrian pace. 

Hes got 12 pts in his last 30 games now. Which is pace for a 33 pt season. And he doesnt bring much else to the table. A stanley cup team should force a guy like that down to the 4th.

With Larkin, without Larkin.  Kubalik needs a center.  Vrana, on the other hand, is able to generate offense by himself.  Would like to see Bert traded to Dallas for a righty and Kubalik slot in with Larkin and Raymond.  Vrana-Kasper-Stankoven and Rasmussen-Copp-Mazur for rest of top 9.  Zadina/Soderblom-Veleno-Sundqvist as 4th line.

[Walman6million 250]

5 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

10 hours ago, Walman6million said:

50+ games in. Here's Lalonde's usage of the team by TOI/PG:

1. Larkin
2. Copp
3. Raymond
4. Perron
5. Fabbri
6. Bertuzzi
7. Rasmussen
8. Kubalik
9. Sundqvist
10. Erne <-------- waived to GR
11. Berggren
12. Suter
13. Zadina
14. Veleno
15. Soderblom <------- waived to GR

*** Vrana ***

1. Seider
2. Hronek
3. Chiarot (SOFT)
4. Walman
5. Maata
6. Hagg
7. Oesterle
8. Lindstrom

 

"He brings the hard"

Do you doubt Derek?

45 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

With Larkin, without Larkin.  Kubalik needs a center.  Vrana, on the other hand, is able to generate offense by himself.  Would like to see Bert traded to Dallas for a righty and Kubalik slot in with Larkin and Raymond.  Vrana-Kasper-Stankoven and Rasmussen-Copp-Mazur for rest of top 9.  Zadina/Soderblom-Veleno-Sundqvist as 4th line.

Bert off the market. 

[Barrie 900]

Living in the Toronto market, I'm interesting in seeing what's going to happen here. If, and when, the Leafs lose in the 1st round again, Dubas is gone. When a new GM takes over, he may try and get what he can for Matthews, Nylander, and Marner, and start over.

Dubas keeps trading prospects and picks, and there's really nothing left. The fans and media here don't see it. I understand defending your team, but even the media seems to be clueless, which I find shocking.

[Akakabuto 1,831]

3 minutes ago, Barrie said:

even the media seems to be clueless, which I find shocking.

Lol

[Walman6million 250]

46 minutes ago, Barrie said:

Living in the Toronto market, I'm interesting in seeing what's going to happen here. If, and when, the Leafs lose in the 1st round again, Dubas is gone. When a new GM takes over, he may try and get what he can for Matthews, Nylander, and Marner, and start over.

Dubas keeps trading prospects and picks, and there's really nothing left. The fans and media here don't see it. I understand defending your team, but even the media seems to be clueless, which I find shocking.

Im actually super excited to watch the Leafs playoffs this year. This is it. This is the end. I cant wait to take it all in. I want to pinpoint and memorize the moment Dubas's heart breaks and his dream team and job slip away. The offseason is going to be prime leaf board trolling season.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

23 minutes ago, Walman6million said:

Im actually super excited to watch the Leafs playoffs this year. This is it. This is the end. I cant wait to take it all in. I want to pinpoint and memorize the moment Dubas's heart breaks and his dream team and job slip away. The offseason is going to be prime leaf board trolling season.

The worst part that the Leafs don't realize that INJURIES can totally derail a playoff run.  They've been getting knocked out while pretty healthy, with the exception of Tavares missing a few games.  Wait until Matthews or Marner goes down with a separated shoulder.  Bye bye.

[Axl Foley 318]

5 hours ago, Walman6million said:

Kubalik WAS scoring like that back in Oct/Nov. He came out the gate screaming just like Husso, i wont deny that, but he has since regressed back to a much more pedestrian pace. 

Hes got 12 pts in his last 30 games now. Which is pace for a 33 pt season. And he doesnt bring much else to the table. A stanley cup team should force a guy like that down to the 4th.

That's not how it works. Early points still count. Scorers are streaky. His scoring rate for the season puts him as a Nyquist type scorer. That's middle 6.

[Walman6million 250]

50 minutes ago, Axl Foley said:

That's not how it works. Early points still count. Scorers are streaky. His scoring rate for the season puts him as a Nyquist type scorer. That's middle 6.

And last year he was on pace for 30-35 pts... just a full season downstreak?

Look, the moment the Hawks took Kubalik away from Kane and Debrincat his scoring dried up. The moment we took him away from Larkin and Perron his scoring dried up. 

Nyquist can actually play up and down a lineup and produce consistently. And actually provides other value like PK work. Kubs does not do much of anything unless hes tied to ur best players hip. 

Add Vrana and another top6 forward to this team and Kubs is absolutely a 4th liner when healthy. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

24 minutes ago, Walman6million said:

And last year he was on pace for 30-35 pts... just a full season downstreak?

Look, the moment the Hawks took Kubalik away from Kane and Debrincat his scoring dried up. The moment we took him away from Larkin and Perron his scoring dried up. 

Nyquist can actually play up and down a lineup and produce consistently. And actually provides other value like PK work. Kubs does not do much of anything unless hes tied to ur best players hip. 

Add Vrana and another top6 forward to this team and Kubs is absolutely a 4th liner when healthy. 

Yup.  Bertuzzi has more value.

[Walman6million 250]

Per Lebrun: “Contract talks on an extension for pending UFA center Dylan Larkin have been put on hold for the moment as both sides have agreed the focus should be on the playoff race the Red Wings find themselves in.”

f*** Dboss sign u *****

[Axl Foley 318]

2 hours ago, Walman6million said:

1.And last year he was on pace for 30-35 pts... just a full season downstreak?

2. Look, the moment the Hawks took Kubalik away from Kane and Debrincat his scoring dried up. The moment we took him away from Larkin and Perron his scoring dried up. 

3. Nyquist can actually play up and down a lineup and produce consistently. And actually provides other value like PK work. Kubs does not do much of anything unless hes tied to ur best players hip. 

4. Add Vrana and another top6 forward to this team and Kubs is absolutely a 4th liner when healthy. 

1. What was Larkin's scoring last year?

2. Any player would drop in points in that scenario.

3. Nyquist did not score consistently in Detroit either. 4th liners don't score much even with good linemates.

4. And if O'Reilly plays 3C in Toronto behind Matthews and Tavares, does that mean he is actually a 3C?

[Walman6million 250]

1 minute ago, Axl Foley said:

1. What was Larkin's scoring last year?

2. Any player would drop in points in that scenario.

3. Nyquist did not score consistently in Detroit either. 4th liners don't score much even with good linemates.

4. And if O'Reilly plays 3C in Toronto behind Matthews and Tavares, does that mean he is actually a 3C?

1. point per game, pretty much same as this year. What's your point?

2. No, and that's pretty much my point

3. I think you're confused. I'm not interested in maximizing Kubalik's personal scoring.

4. What does this have to do with Kubalik?

[Axl Foley 318]

33 minutes ago, Walman6million said:

1. point per game, pretty much same as this year. What's your point?

2. No, and that's pretty much my point

3. I think you're confused. I'm not interested in maximizing Kubalik's personal scoring.

4. What does this have to do with Kubalik?

1. I got the year wrong, but Larkin has had good and bad years as far as scoring goes. Not every player has consistent seasons.

2.Really? So linemates have nothing to do with scoring?

3. If Kubalik was a 4th liner, he wouldn't score at the rate he was earlier in the season. 4th liners don't score. Look at Zadina. No matter his linemates, he doesn't score.

4. Caliber of player does not change based on roster depth. A middle six F is still a middle 6 F even if he gets pushed down to the 4th line. If Fabbri gets pushed down to the 4th line, is he not still a middle 6 F?

Bottom line: If Kubalik puts up 50+ points playing with top 6 linemates, that would make him at least a middle 6 F. No 4th line caliber F is going to put up over 50 points in a season. Especially with this roster.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 hour ago, Axl Foley said:

1. I got the year wrong, but Larkin has had good and bad years as far as scoring goes. Not every player has consistent seasons.

2.Really? So linemates have nothing to do with scoring?

3. If Kubalik was a 4th liner, he wouldn't score at the rate he was earlier in the season. 4th liners don't score. Look at Zadina. No matter his linemates, he doesn't score.

4. Caliber of player does not change based on roster depth. A middle six F is still a middle 6 F even if he gets pushed down to the 4th line. If Fabbri gets pushed down to the 4th line, is he not still a middle 6 F?

Bottom line: If Kubalik puts up 50+ points playing with top 6 linemates, that would make him at least a middle 6 F. No 4th line caliber F is going to put up over 50 points in a season. Especially with this roster.

this is a bad post.  youve said very little with a lot of words.

[Walman6million 250]

8 hours ago, Axl Foley said:

1. I got the year wrong, but Larkin has had good and bad years as far as scoring goes. Not every player has consistent seasons.

2.Really? So linemates have nothing to do with scoring?

3. If Kubalik was a 4th liner, he wouldn't score at the rate he was earlier in the season. 4th liners don't score. Look at Zadina. No matter his linemates, he doesn't score.

4. Caliber of player does not change based on roster depth. A middle six F is still a middle 6 F even if he gets pushed down to the 4th line. If Fabbri gets pushed down to the 4th line, is he not still a middle 6 F?

Bottom line: If Kubalik puts up 50+ points playing with top 6 linemates, that would make him at least a middle 6 F. No 4th line caliber F is going to put up over 50 points in a season. Especially with this roster.

1. Obviously there is variation in everything. Are you suggesting we are supposed to take a players high water mark as their standard?

2. Linemates matter. Much less so for quality players. Pavel Datsyuk is going to score you a point per game whether he's next to Zetterberg or Abdelkader. Hudler is going to score you 40pts or 70pts depending on who you pair him with. Kubs is starkly the later.

3. I think there's some confusion on what a 4th liner is. It quite literally has nothing to do with scoring. A 4th liner is someone playing on the 4th line.

4.

On 2/21/2023 at 2:49 AM, Walman6million said:

On a good team I think Kubalik and Sunny would be 4th liners. Another solid forward (plus Vrana) and we could be there.

Read this 5 times if you have to. Ask yourself, am I making any kind of judgement on what caliber of player Kubalik is? I'm talking about adding Vrana and another top forward to the mix, and where that leaves Kubalik and Sundqvist... hint hint, it's the 4th when healthy.

Lets do the math:

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Raymond
Additional player X - Copp - Perron
Vrana - Ras - Fabbri
Kubalik - Veleno - Sundqvist

If SY went out and added another major forward for a playoff run right now - this is where Kubalik would slot IMO. Nothing to do with whatever arbitrary definition of what standard of player you've decided Kubalik is.

If you want to argue with me that Kubalik should slot above Fabbri/Ras/Perron go for it.

If you want to instead argue about "what caliber/type of player Kubalik is" (a point I wasn't making) I would tell you he's a utility scoring forward who can slot anywhere in a lineup. You can slot him into the top line to create depth down the lines when in a pinch. But on a deep and healthy team you probably don't want him there.