THIS IS A GAME DAY THREAD WINGS VS SABERS TONIGHT 12-5-2023-8:30 AST

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

Just now, TLGTrico said:

I didn't watch this game.  Did we go into a defensive shell after going up 4-0?

not sure how defensive it was

[Troy McClure 347]

3 minutes ago, TLGTrico said:

I didn't watch this game.  Did we go into a defensive shell after going up 4-0?

Rumor has it Tage Thompson played

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

Just now, Troy McClure said:

Rumor has it Tage Thompson played

source?

[Dabura 12,232]

Don't look now - but we're 2nd in the Atlantic. Our team may be flawed, but damn if this isn't progress.

[Troy McClure 347]

6 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

source?

My one weakness

[Dabura 12,232]

Also: Our goal differential is +20. Madness.

[Troy McClure 347]

1 minute ago, Dabura said:

Also: Our goal differential is +20. Madness.

Does this mean I have to be nice to Derek?

7 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Don't look now - but we're 2nd in the Atlantic. Our team may be flawed, but damn if this isn't progress.

Imagine if Kaner actually works out for a few seasons, we add a still okay stamkos, and the D slowly leaks in guys like Eddogg

[Dabura 12,232]

2 minutes ago, Troy McClure said:

Does this mean I have to be nice to Derek?

The narrative I'm going with at present is that Gru is pretty good at unleashing players' offensive skillz (we're currently the highest scoring team in the conference, believe it or not) and not so great on the defensive side of things.

[Dabura 12,232]

7 minutes ago, Troy McClure said:

Imagine if Kaner actually works out for a few seasons, we add a still okay stamkos, and the D slowly leaks in guys like Eddogg

What's crazy is we're doing what we're doing this season with very little legit star power and a very iffy D group and very iffy goaltending and a largely unproven head coach. So, yeah, to your point: This "rebuild" could get really interesting in a hurry.

[Y19 2,488]

Welp, I missed this one.
.

 

[Troy McClure 347]

Just now, Y19 said:

Welp, I missed this one.
.

 

Was waiting for this.

And now the thread can die.

[Axl Foley 334]

1 hour ago, Y19 said:

Welp, I missed this one.
.

 

Tage played.

Kane didnt.

That is all.

[kipwinger 8,756]

Legit question here, but do good teams also go into a defensive shell when they have a big lead in the 3rd but just execute it better? I'm wondering if this isn't something Tampa did, Lalonde learned (or helped implement) and he's trying to teach the Wings how to do it...but we're just not very good at it?

The reason I asked is because a few years ago it was all the rage to criticize Blashill for using the drop pass on powerplay entries. Everyone raked him over the coals about it. But if you watch, most of the rest of the teams in the league use it too. The problem wasn't that we used the drop pass. The problem was that we weren't very good at using it and needed to get better at it.

So, is playing a conservative system late in a game the league standard that we need to improve upon? Or is it something we shouldn't do at all?

[LeftWinger 5,131]

15 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

So, is playing a conservative system late in a game the league standard that we need to improve upon? Or is it something we shouldn't do at all?

I say just play balls to the wall for 60 minutes. It seems to work for 20.

It's like watching the Lions score quick, then let the other team back in because they're being conservative, then executing a 2 minute offense, that cuts right through the other teams D, to win the game. Just Flippin play that way the entire game! 

[kipwinger 8,756]

1 minute ago, LeftWinger said:

I say just play balls to the wall for 60 minutes. It seems to work for 20.

It's like watching the Lions score quick, then let the other team back in because they're being conservative, then executing a 2 minute offense, that cuts right through the other teams D, to win the game. Just Flippin play that way the entire game! 

I get what you're saying, and I've said the same things myself. But there has to be a reason why teams do it right? I guess I'm trying to consider whether Lalonde does this defensive shell thing because it's was effective in Tampa and we just need to improve at executing it? Using your analogy, team's don't run a 2 minute offense all game in the NFL because you're more likely to make mistakes, you'd tire out your offensive player, take more penalties, etc. They do it situationally because it can sometimes work in short stints. But here's the thing, teams have to drill their hurry-up offense over and over and over to get good at it. It's not just their regular offense but all sped up. It's an entirely different system. So is our defensive shell an entirely different system that we need to keep working at to improve upon? Or is it a bad concept overall? I have no idea.

[AtlantaHotWings 1,126]

Hate to say this but it's a "process"...

      Our offense has improved dramatically and maybe that is allowing us to use the "defense shell" vs last year where we had to keep pushing to score. So maybe like the offense/PP/PK it's a repetition thing and we will get better and better at it as the year goes on.  Plus as we move down the road and add more players who I imagine are seeing the same type of system in GR it will feel natural to the players.

I am personally in the step on the opponents throat camp and use it to get something off the top shelf till the game is over. But is that realistic? Would my philosophy just like your 2 minute analogy cause my guys to tire and make mistakes and put us in the same boat as the "defensive shell"? 

I know last night going into the 3rd I was oooh crap we aren't attacking and it was like I expected the Sabres to have a shot at winning. I want that feeling to stop...LOL

[kipwinger 8,756]

Same, and I genuinely don't know the answer to this. There has to be a rationale behind doing it. But it also clearly isn't working. So I'm left wondering whether the strategy is flawed or the execution is flawed.

[Axl Foley 334]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Legit question here, but do good teams also go into a defensive shell when they have a big lead in the 3rd but just execute it better? I'm wondering if this isn't something Tampa did, Lalonde learned (or helped implement) and he's trying to teach the Wings how to do it...but we're just not very good at it?

The reason I asked is because a few years ago it was all the rage to criticize Blashill for using the drop pass on powerplay entries. Everyone raked him over the coals about it. But if you watch, most of the rest of the teams in the league use it too. The problem wasn't that we used the drop pass. The problem was that we weren't very good at using it and needed to get better at it.

So, is playing a conservative system late in a game the league standard that we need to improve upon? Or is it something we shouldn't do at all?

I would say most good teams go into D mode when they have a lead in the 3rd. I would say that good teams also do a much a better job of creating opportunities against their opponents who are going to take more risks to generate offense. Wings don't seem to do that. They let their opponent pressure too much instead of taking advantage.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Axl Foley

[kipwinger 8,756]

2 minutes ago, Axl Foley said:

I would say most good teams go into D mode when they have a lead in the 3rd. I would say that good teams also do a much a better job of creating opportunities against their opponents who are going to take more risks to generate offense. Wings don't seem to do that. They let their opponent pressure too much instead of taking advantage.

This is probably on target. Going into the 3rd against Montreal the other night I was thinking, "we're about to run this up". That obviously didn't happen. So then clearly it's about learning how to execute the game plan properly rather than the game plan being flawed? Because one suggests the coaching is bad and the other suggests that the team just needs more coaching and more reps. 

[Akakabuto 1,842]

Regular season is long. You try to manage your workload by slowing down a bit when you have a big lead, I guess. Wings just need to learn to not implode doing so. 

[Axl Foley 334]

Going into defensive mode is fine if you have the skaters and goalie to do it. We don't have that either.

[Troy McClure 347]

In the last 15 to 10 minutes of the 3rd behind teams are going to start coming at you with 4 man rushes and aggressive pinches. Good teams know how to exploit this. We do not. We just get hemmed in further. If Buffalo was smart they would have played that way the entire game and buried us.