Troy McClure 346 Report post Posted March 11 Well, here we are, and here we go... We are going into the summer with: 46/50 contracts (13 UFAs, 8 RFAs) 29 million dollars in cap space UFAs: Perron, F Kane, F Sprong, F Fischer, F Hirose, F Aston-Reese, F Luff, F Czarnik, F Gostisbhere, D Simek, D Reimer, G Lethemon, G Hutchinson, G RFAs Berggren, F Raymond, F Veleno, F Gettinger, F Seider, D Albert Johansson, D McIsaac, D Newpower, D The big 4 RFA's (Seider, Raymond, Veleno, and Berggren) are going to command 15-19 millon alone. Leaving us with 10-14 million to spend on UFA's. That's between $1.8 to $2.6 to spend per roster position to fill 5 roster positions (assuming Edvinsson joins the roster). With that tight of cap space, re-signng Perron for anything more than the above average per position cost would be regarded. Re-signng Ghost is basically impossible. And We better pray Kane and Sprong are willing to stay modest (they won't). We have the funds to basically commit to 1 of our big UFA's and Fischer. That UFA better be Patrick Kane. I'm hoping we can keep him for $4 to $6 million per. That leaves us with $1 to $1.75 to spend on each of the last 4 positions. AKA not Perron or Sprong. One of those positions will be filled by Fischer. The remaining 3 positions are Forward positions. I truly think one position should go to another Fischer clone, and the other to Mazur. It's time. We have a good roster with good leadership. Time to graduate our best and brightest. We don't have the money for much else anyway. The last position is for the #1 callup, whomever it ends up becoming. Go into next season with this roster: Debrincat - Larkin - Kane Fabbri - Compher - Raymond Rasmussen - Copp - Berggren Mazur - Veleno - Fischer FischerClone #1 callup Walman - Seider Chiarot - Petry Edvinsson - Maata Holl Lyon Husso I like our forwards, but goaltendng and defense will be a bit fuqqy unless Edvinsson immediately plays like a golden god. Petry isn't being bought out. Dumby Derek plays him 18+ minutes a night. Maata/Holl trades should be explored. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Troy McClure 346 Report post Posted March 11 Separate discussion, I suspect Luff, Aston-Reese, Simek, Hutchinson, and Newpower will be gone next year. It will be interesting to see what Horcoff does. i think we can reload internally with Buchnelikov, Anton Johansson, and ASP. But some more vets will be needed. Jacob Turcott is an option at D... or Cade Webber if Toronto can't get hm signed. I'd rather get a project like this than sign another washed up vet like Simek or Rafferty. Our AHL D isn't children anymore. At forward we just need some additonal Reeves/Rempe/Gadovich regards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,963 Report post Posted March 11 (edited) Trade Fabbri, Veleno, Holl and Maatta. Ghost, Perron and Reimer can move on. Unless Perron takes a team friendly deal. Sprong will be too expensive. Kane is important and Fischer shouldn't cost too much. UFA D isn't very deep this year. If we want an upgrade, there will need to be a trade. We NEED an upgrade. We also need a top 6 upgrade up front. It is 100% playoffs or bust next season. 1000%. Edited March 11 by LeftWinger 1 AtlantaHotWings reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,524 Report post Posted March 11 8 hours ago, Troy McClure said: Well, here we are, and here we go... We are going into the summer with: 46/50 contracts (13 UFAs, 8 RFAs) 29 million dollars in cap space UFAs: Perron, F Kane, F Sprong, F Fischer, F Hirose, F Aston-Reese, F Luff, F Czarnik, F Gostisbhere, D Simek, D Reimer, G Lethemon, G Hutchinson, G RFAs Berggren, F Raymond, F Veleno, F Gettinger, F Seider, D Albert Johansson, D McIsaac, D Newpower, D The big 4 RFA's (Seider, Raymond, Veleno, and Berggren) are going to command 15-19 millon alone. Leaving us with 10-14 million to spend on UFA's. That's between $1.8 to $2.6 to spend per roster position to fill 5 roster positions (assuming Edvinsson joins the roster). With that tight of cap space, re-signng Perron for anything more than the above average per position cost would be regarded. Re-signng Ghost is basically impossible. And We better pray Kane and Sprong are willing to stay modest (they won't). We have the funds to basically commit to 1 of our big UFA's and Fischer. That UFA better be Patrick Kane. I'm hoping we can keep him for $4 to $6 million per. That leaves us with $1 to $1.75 to spend on each of the last 4 positions. AKA not Perron or Sprong. One of those positions will be filled by Fischer. The remaining 3 positions are Forward positions. I truly think one position should go to another Fischer clone, and the other to Mazur. It's time. We have a good roster with good leadership. Time to graduate our best and brightest. We don't have the money for much else anyway. The last position is for the #1 callup, whomever it ends up becoming. Go into next season with this roster: Debrincat - Larkin - Kane Fabbri - Compher - Raymond Rasmussen - Copp - Berggren Mazur - Veleno - Fischer FischerClone #1 callup Walman - Seider Chiarot - Petry Edvinsson - Maata Holl Lyon Husso I like our forwards, but goaltendng and defense will be a bit fuqqy unless Edvinsson immediately plays like a golden god. Petry isn't being bought out. Dumby Derek plays him 18+ minutes a night. Maata/Holl trades should be explored. The good news is that Mazur has really taken his game to a different level lately. A month ago I'd have said that Berggren and Edvinsson are the only NHL ready prospects we have. But Mazur is there, or almost there, now. With a full offseason to train I think he easily handles a depth spot in the NHL next season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scott R Lucidi 454 Report post Posted March 11 19 minutes ago, kipwinger said: The good news is that Mazur has really taken his game to a different level lately. A month ago I'd have said that Berggren and Edvinsson are the only NHL ready prospects we have. But Mazur is there, or almost there, now. With a full offseason to train I think he easily handles a depth spot in the NHL next season. Edvinsson, Johansson, Berggren, Mazur, Kasper, and Cossa are all ready. That's why the Griffins are kicking ass this year. ASP, Danielson, and Tuomisto need next year in GR. Wallinder, Lombardi, Augustine, and 2024 draft picks need next 2 years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,524 Report post Posted March 11 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said: Edvinsson, Johansson, Berggren, Mazur, Kasper, and Cossa are all ready. That's why the Griffins are kicking ass this year. ASP, Danielson, and Tuomisto need next year in GR. Wallinder, Lombardi, Augustine, and 2024 draft picks need next 2 years. I forgot Johansson and agree about him. I don't agree about Kasper or Cossa though. Kasper's offense is very incidental and his shot it underdeveloped. He creates a ton of chances for himself and can't finish many because he can't shoot. He has a tendency to double clutch when he receives a pass and is about to shoot. This gives goalies time to get set and defenders time to close distance. I'd really like to see him get another season in GR to work on getting his shot away more cleanly, otherwise you're going to have another Zadina on your hands (a guy who could find scoring opportunities but not finish them because of a bad shot). Cossa has made huge strides in his game and he's learning that for a big goalie the name of the game is positioning. Where to be in the net and how to present to shooters. But he needs A LOT of reps to make that muscle memory IMO. He's largely split the season with Hutchinson this year and I'd like to see him take another year in GR where he starts about 2/3s of the games. Let him carry the load on a winning team and be "the man". Out of all the guys you mentioned Wallinder is probably the only other one that's close to ready. The only reason he's not popping right now is because he's buried behind Edvinsson in the depth chart. When Simon graduates to the big club Wallinder will get all Simon's minutes (most importantly on the powerplay) and you'll see a huge spike in his production. But I think his transition game and defense are already pretty high level. I'd also be surprised if Tuomisto every plays many NHL games. His feet are sluggish. By that I don't mean he's slow. I mean he pivots and changes direction slowly. For instance, when the opposition dumps the puck into GR's zone he'll go back on retrievals and gather up the puck but it takes FOREVER for him to turn his feet, get facing back up ice, and transition to offense. Forecheckers are going to eat him alive in the NHL. Likewise he doesn't defend well in transition because rushing forwards have no problem crossing him up because his feet suck. He needs a skating coach, big time. Edited March 11 by kipwinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scott R Lucidi 454 Report post Posted March 11 39 minutes ago, kipwinger said: I forgot Johansson and agree about him. I don't agree about Kasper or Cossa though. Kasper's offense is very incidental and his shot it underdeveloped. He creates a ton of chances for himself and can't finish many because he can't shoot. He has a tendency to double clutch when he receives a pass and is about to shoot. This gives goalies time to get set and defenders time to close distance. I'd really like to see him get another season in GR to work on getting his shot away more cleanly, otherwise you're going to have another Zadina on your hands (a guy who could find scoring opportunities but not finish them because of a bad shot). Cossa has made huge strides in his game and he's learning that for a big goalie the name of the game is positioning. Where to be in the net and how to present to shooters. But he needs A LOT of reps to make that muscle memory IMO. He's largely split the season with Hutchinson this year and I'd like to see him take another year in GR where he starts about 2/3s of the games. Let him carry the load on a winning team and be "the man". Out of all the guys you mentioned Wallinder is probably the only other one that's close to ready. The only reason he's not popping right now is because he's buried behind Edvinsson in the depth chart. When Simon graduates to the big club Wallinder will get all Simon's minutes (most importantly on the powerplay) and you'll see a huge spike in his production. But I think his transition game and defense are already pretty high level. I'd also be surprised if Tuomisto every plays many NHL games. His feet are sluggish. By that I don't mean he's slow. I mean he pivots and changes direction slowly. For instance, when the opposition dumps the puck into GR's zone he'll go back on retrievals and gather up the puck but it takes FOREVER for him to turn his feet, get facing back up ice, and transition to offense. Forecheckers are going to eat him alive in the NHL. Likewise he doesn't defend well in transition because rushing forwards have no problem crossing him up because his feet suck. He needs a skating coach, big time. I should have clarified something, Kip. Sorry. By "ready", I'm not saying they're ready to be quality NHLer like Seider or Raymond. I mean they're ready to replace some TRASH we have in Detroit. Kasper may not be ready to produce 30 goal seasons yet, but he can't play worse than Andrew Copp and Copp's 12 goal seasons. Tuomisto may not be ready to pivot like Walman and stop NHL fore checkers like Seider does, but the few sentences you wrote about him sound EXACTLY the same as the ones one would use to describe the play of Ben Chiarot. Cossa - Reimer, Mazur - Perron, Johansson - Petry, Edvinsson - Gost, etc. The Wings have 4-5 players that are just TRASH. And they chew up a lot of money. I get giving our prospects SOME time to develop, but I don't want to see them all win cups in GRAND RAPIDS. I want that to happen in Detroit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
13dangledangle 965 Report post Posted March 11 (edited) 56 minutes ago, kipwinger said: He needs a skating coach, big time. This has nothing to do with anything BUT the skating discussion sparked a thought. how difficult is it to get faster once you reach the nhl level? Now don’t get me wrong, I love Mo. Damn he looks slow out there too much of the time, guys routinely out skate him and blow right by down the boards. Luckily his IQ is high and positioning is great to lessen the negative effects but if he could add just a tad to his top end it would be extremely beneficial Edited March 11 by 13dangledangle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scott R Lucidi 454 Report post Posted March 11 3 minutes ago, 13dangledangle said: This has nothing to do with anything BUT the skating discussion sparked a thought. how difficult is it to get faster once you reach the nhl level? Now don’t get me wrong, I love Mo. Damn he looks slow out there too much of the time, guys routinely out skate him and blow right by down the boards. Luckily his IQ is high and positing is great to lessen the negative effects but if he could add just a tad to his top end it would be extremely beneficial Mo needs to get stronger. Like Raymond did. 1 13dangledangle reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,524 Report post Posted March 11 2 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said: I should have clarified something, Kip. Sorry. By "ready", I'm not saying they're ready to be quality NHLer like Seider or Raymond. I mean they're ready to replace some TRASH we have in Detroit. Kasper may not be ready to produce 30 goal seasons yet, but he can't play worse than Andrew Copp and Copp's 12 goal seasons. Tuomisto may not be ready to pivot like Walman and stop NHL fore checkers like Seider does, but the few sentences you wrote about him sound EXACTLY the same as the ones one would use to describe the play of Ben Chiarot. Cossa - Reimer, Mazur - Perron, Johansson - Petry, Edvinsson - Gost, etc. The Wings have 4-5 players that are just TRASH. And they chew up a lot of money. I get giving our prospects SOME time to develop, but I don't want to see them all win cups in GRAND RAPIDS. I want that to happen in Detroit Well sure, some of our better prospects are better than bad NHLers but I don't think that's a good reason to bring them up yet. I think that kills development. I've used this example before but if you're not any good at faceoffs you're probably not going to learn by losing ten of them per night against Brayden Point, Crosby, Barkov, O'Reilly, Larkin, etc. right? Likewise you're not going to learn to shoot well if you come to the NHL and defenders close on you more quickly and you can't get your shot off at all, and when you do you're trying to beat Sorokin, Shesterkin, etc. My philosophy is bring prospects up when they're ready. When you're satisfied with their all around game irrespective of their ceilings. Like, right now Edvinsson and Berggren have nothing else to learn in the AHL. Their all around games are dominant. So bring them up. And then fill the rest of the roster with vets. Kasper isn't even a 1C in the AHL yet and we're really counting on him being a 2C in the NHL one day? Let him be a top guy in GR for a season and work on his game, then see if he's ready. Until then, Copp and Veleno will do. 8 minutes ago, 13dangledangle said: This has nothing to do with anything BUT the skating discussion sparked a thought. how difficult is it to get faster once you reach the nhl level? Now don’t get me wrong, I love Mo. Damn he looks slow out there too much of the time, guys routinely out skate him and blow right by down the boards. Luckily his IQ is high and positioning is great to lessen the negative effects but if he could add just a tad to his top end it would be extremely beneficial This is just my opinion but I think all guys naturally get "faster" as they gain muscle and develop the lower body strength to move their frames around the ice. Seider is still a young, skinny, kid. Once he's squatting 400 lbs he'll be plenty fast. Different thing than "playing fast" though. And I think this is a more important skill. Moving your feet all the time and playing with "pace" is more important. Look at David Perron. Slow skater but never stops moving so he keeps up. Mark Stone is the king of this. Now compare that to Anthony Mantha. Mantha is a fast, powerful, skater who only really skates in transition. The rest of the time he's coasting, so his speed doesn't really matter much. 1 13dangledangle reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TLGTrico 627 Report post Posted March 11 1 hour ago, kipwinger said: I forgot Johansson and agree about him. I don't agree about Kasper or Cossa though. Kasper's offense is very incidental and his shot it underdeveloped. He creates a ton of chances for himself and can't finish many because he can't shoot. He has a tendency to double clutch when he receives a pass and is about to shoot. This gives goalies time to get set and defenders time to close distance. I'd really like to see him get another season in GR to work on getting his shot away more cleanly, otherwise you're going to have another Zadina on your hands (a guy who could find scoring opportunities but not finish them because of a bad shot). Cossa has made huge strides in his game and he's learning that for a big goalie the name of the game is positioning. Where to be in the net and how to present to shooters. But he needs A LOT of reps to make that muscle memory IMO. He's largely split the season with Hutchinson this year and I'd like to see him take another year in GR where he starts about 2/3s of the games. Let him carry the load on a winning team and be "the man". Out of all the guys you mentioned Wallinder is probably the only other one that's close to ready. The only reason he's not popping right now is because he's buried behind Edvinsson in the depth chart. When Simon graduates to the big club Wallinder will get all Simon's minutes (most importantly on the powerplay) and you'll see a huge spike in his production. But I think his transition game and defense are already pretty high level. I'd also be surprised if Tuomisto every plays many NHL games. His feet are sluggish. By that I don't mean he's slow. I mean he pivots and changes direction slowly. For instance, when the opposition dumps the puck into GR's zone he'll go back on retrievals and gather up the puck but it takes FOREVER for him to turn his feet, get facing back up ice, and transition to offense. Forecheckers are going to eat him alive in the NHL. Likewise he doesn't defend well in transition because rushing forwards have no problem crossing him up because his feet suck. He needs a skating coach, big time. So back to back top 10 picks not making an NHL opening night lineup and their draft post three season. Sigh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,524 Report post Posted March 11 (edited) 25 minutes ago, TLGTrico said: So back to back top 10 picks not making an NHL opening night lineup and their draft post three season. Sigh. Who cares? I'd rather guys be effective when they DO arrive than guys who are mediocre but in the lineup immediately. Raymond isn't a better player than Seider just because he made it to the NHL as a draft +2 instead of a draft +3 player. Edited March 11 by kipwinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Troy McClure 346 Report post Posted March 11 1 hour ago, TLGTrico said: So back to back top 10 picks not making an NHL opening night lineup and their draft post three season. Sigh. 5 seasons into an SY rebuild. No playoffs. Only 2 of his draft picks on the roster. But hey, we got Radek Simek. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scott R Lucidi 454 Report post Posted March 11 15 minutes ago, Troy McClure said: 5 seasons into an SY rebuild. No playoffs. Only 2 of his draft picks on the roster. But hey, we got Radek Simek. This is how I feel as well. Yzerplan so overrated right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Troy McClure 346 Report post Posted March 11 16 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said: This is how I feel as well. Yzerplan so overrated right now. At this point its obvious there is no grand yzerplan. Dude is winging it day to day. And now all his cap is gone so were in wait and see "we like our team" mode. Hopefully Raymond becomes Zetterberg, or were fuqqed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TLGTrico 627 Report post Posted March 11 3 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said: I should have clarified something, Kip. Sorry. By "ready", I'm not saying they're ready to be quality NHLer like Seider or Raymond. I mean they're ready to replace some TRASH we have in Detroit. Kasper may not be ready to produce 30 goal seasons yet, but he can't play worse than Andrew Copp and Copp's 12 goal seasons. Tuomisto may not be ready to pivot like Walman and stop NHL fore checkers like Seider does, but the few sentences you wrote about him sound EXACTLY the same as the ones one would use to describe the play of Ben Chiarot. Cossa - Reimer, Mazur - Perron, Johansson - Petry, Edvinsson - Gost, etc. The Wings have 4-5 players that are just TRASH. And they chew up a lot of money. I get giving our prospects SOME time to develop, but I don't want to see them all win cups in GRAND RAPIDS. I want that to happen in Detroit If Kasper ever becomes a consistent 30 goal scorer, I'd be ecstatic no matter how long it takes him to make the team Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Troy McClure 346 Report post Posted March 11 Tim Gettinger re-signed this morning. 1 year 2way deal. 1 Scott R Lucidi reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scott R Lucidi 454 Report post Posted March 11 17 minutes ago, TLGTrico said: If Kasper ever becomes a consistent 30 goal scorer, I'd be ecstatic no matter how long it takes him to make the team If he doesn't, a #8 draft pick is a pretty solid asset wasted. We need Kasper, Edvinsson, Danielson, Cossa, and ASP to stand out. It's ok for Veleno, Berggren, and Rasmussen to just blend in and not have to ever be the guy (which neither of them can be consistently). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TLGTrico 627 Report post Posted March 11 If Berggren is still a Red Wing come October, I want him in the opening night lineup. I also want one other Forward prospect and Edvinsson in the open night lineup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Troy McClure 346 Report post Posted March 11 46 minutes ago, TLGTrico said: If Berggren is still a Red Wing come October, I want him in the opening night lineup. I also want one other Forward prospect and Edvinsson in the open night lineup. Dont think Berggren is going back down at this point. If we end up outside the playoff picture down the stretch Id like to see Mazur get some reps in as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,963 Report post Posted March 11 Oops, this was on page 2 of threads. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scott R Lucidi 454 Report post Posted March 11 14 minutes ago, Troy McClure said: Dont think Berggren is going back down at this point. If we end up outside the playoff picture down the stretch Id like to see Mazur get some reps in as well. Yah, his AHL days should be done. He's NHL ready after his 4 years of Kenny ripening Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Troy McClure 346 Report post Posted March 11 23 minutes ago, LeftWinger said: Oops, this was on page 2 of threads. Poop my bad gang. Ima go read that thread to see what I said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,963 Report post Posted March 12 14 hours ago, Troy McClure said: Poop my bad gang. Ima go read that thread to see what I said. A lot of great stuff on this one. Maybe the two can be merged somehow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akakabuto 1,751 Report post Posted March 12 7 hours ago, LeftWinger said: A lot of great stuff on this one. Maybe the two can be merged somehow. Even if it could be done, it would require the existance of mods. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
