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Well well welll A veryyyyyy different EOY presser from the great planner than we are used to... First, it's not him at his desk behind a webcam. It's formal and in person. Second, he brought in his head coach as backup. This is a new thing for us. Third, this event is weeks later than normal. Maybe needed some extra time to get his messaging right? Anyway, let's talk about what he had to say... 1. Out the gate he starts the meeting off by addressing the TDL before even being asked. He cites MTL and STL, saying they also didnt make moves and are in the playoffs... "and being led by their best players". He continues by saying there were no players that could reasonably have been added that would have made an impact. IMO coming out the gate with this so strongly is a tell that this is what he is most nervous/upset about. And I did not care for the finger pointing at STL and MTL to justify his own in-action. Telling us there were no players he could have grabbed anyway is also a shockingly bold faced lie. 2. Addressing how to fix the March skids he says we need more depth and we need to get better players and have our players play better. In less than a minute he goes from defending his lack of action at the TDL to saying we need more depth. Depth he couldve picked up at the TDL... not a good start for a presser. 3. Says he did not get feedback on any morale loss from the TDL from any of the players. Continues by saying he expects our leaders to give our team a morale boost when needed. Contradicts the statements made by his own player and then places the blame on said players shoulders. Maybe it was Larkin's fault... but idk if this is the best way to get that across Stevie... 4. Says he spoke to Larkin about his presser personally and will keep what was said between them private. 5. Asked about Walman netting SJS a 1st at the TDL and he refused to give any answer. 6. Yzerman gets asked to piggy back off an answer from Todd and he admits he wasnt listening to Todd and the reporter has to repeat the question. Odd. 7. Says group needs to show more leadership from everyone. Todd adds theyre coaching the players on this. 8. Steve struggles to answer a question about whether or not hes worried about us developing a losing culture, but ultimately admits: yes. 9. Says hes willing to spend big on the right player and also says yes that the urgency to get better now has increased. In general the old chippy Yzerman was gone. He seems much more humble this year. Likely, he is very aware he is losing the confidence of his team and fans. He also hardly mentioned needing to be patient at all this year. He used to use the word patience an ungodly number of times in these pressers, this year patience came out of his maybe 3 or 4 times? It appears to me Yzerman is indeed feeling the pressure from his captain, the fans, and perhaps even ownership. And I expect we may see a big offseason from him because of it... However, he and Todd also went out of their way to combat what Larkin said in his presser. And their messaging on the skids and TDL was that our leadership group (Larkin) was the thing that failed us... not Yzerman. I wonder how Dylan feels about this... do we have a Larkin v Yzerman fued developing? Captain v Captain?
- Today
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This is kinda my point. Is it a pretty solid place to pull from? Many have argued in the past the same thing, and almost every single of those guys didnt even come close to working out... So when I see "but our prospect pool so good" in reponse to angry fans, I don't really buy that as a valid excuse. Until those kids actually play I'm not sold. What I'd like to see is some creativity and action by our GM to address some very obvious current problems. Whether that's getting Pettersson or Marner, or getting tougher, or shaking up leadership... i dont care. But more nothing TDLs and summers of signing bad vets to bloated contracts, and hunting for our 200th goalie in 5 years, and I will call it firing time.
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Soderblom and Johansson are also Yzerman's picks that are full-time NHL players. He drafts well, very well! Need to win some UFA signings! Well, he did win the Kane UFA signing.
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It's not about "being content" with it. It's just obvious that's what's going on. When Larkin, Seider, Raymond, Dcat, Edvinsson, Kasper, etc. get us to the playoffs...then we'll go big game hunting in FA to add the elite talent. And it's not like that's a crazy idea. Elite offensive guys like Rantanen and Marner are available almost every year. My personal preference would be to go get Pettersson right now while the price is (presumably) low. I saw some hockey media guy said the other day that Pettersson isn't well thought of around the league. Good. Buy low. I think you'd have to do something around an unprotected 1st OR Danielson but not both. That would give us this to build around: ???-Larkin-Raymond Dcat-Pettersson-??? Sodorblom-Kasper-??? Compher-Copp-Ras ???-Seider Edvinsson-??? Chiarot-??? And before we even think about UFA we have Mazur, MBN, Plante, Lombardi, Buchelnikov, ASP, Wallinder, Buium, Finnie, Cossa, and Augustine (I might be missing some too) to plug some of those holes. THAT'S a pretty solid place to build from. Add Provorov/Gavrikov and Will Cuylle from outside and you've got a genuine contender IMO.
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@kipwinger @Dabura Every conversation about this I've seen (not just here) always boils down to the same thing: "But muh prospect pool" No one doubts Yzerman has built a strong one. And if you're content to continue to be a patient and wait for the kiddos, you're probably smarter than I, because that's obviously "the plan". What annoys me about this line of thinking is that it's the same reductive line of thinking thats persisted for the last 10+ years. DONT WORRY FELLAS, JUST WAIT TILL Pulkkinen, Backman, Sproul, Jurco, Frk, Athanasiou, Mantha, Svechnikov, Cholowski, Rasmussen, Petruzelli, Veleno, and Zadina GET HERE... then we'll be good. My point = 1. The grass doesnt always get greener. SY is about to select his 7th Wings draft class. Of his picks, so far he's graduated a 4th overall, two 6th overalls, and an 8th overall. That's it. Many would argue that's par for the course. Until some of his other picks start making an impact, it's difficult to argue that our prospect pool is something to hedge our bets on. And the last 10+ years of prospect hype and subsequent let downs, is evidence why we shouldnt give Yzerman an automatic win based on prospect hype. 2. This argument (excuse) has a timeline. And the pressure to produce on Yzerman is building... naturally. Patience will run out. I dunno that he has a leash long enough from the fanbase to make it another 3-4 seasons without some pretty serious results. Tik tok. Tik tok. 3. Development. Doesnt matter how filled up your pool is if you cant teach the kids to swim. Again, we've only graduated top10 picks so far... but further, I question the enviroment/situation we've established to incubate these prospects. GR is GR, but Detroit is a mess. SY held onto a legitmately bad head coach in Blashill for quite a while... only to install another mediocre/bad coach in Lalonde... only to panic replace him midseason with a coach pulled off his couch. These are our teachers/leaders/developers for our premium prospects? And now we have a lockerroom being led by a depressed fed-up captain and an ex-superstar who quits on coaches midseason. I'm not sure Yzerman understands the enviroment he's cultivated.
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Seth Jones played 26 minutes last night (and had a goal) in a huge win for Florida. I'm totally baffled by this because all the analytics dorks (particularly at The Athletic) have been dunking on that guy for years now. Like, he's supposed to be absolutely terrible right? How are we supposed to make sense of it? I mean, I watched a guy last night who looked like a total stud. But then again, Dom Luczszdanasdkon of the Athletic said he totally blows. What gives?
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Article just dropped this week that said Larkin had the 2nd hardest forward usage IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE. Dude does yeoman’s work, and was injured at the 4 nations, and still scored 30 goals and 70 points. Most years he scores 80+ with that usage. As we get more depth that usage will ease and he’ll score 90+ on a winning team. Where does the depth come from? Maybe the 20 year old 2C who just broke out this season under McClellan. Raymond will score the same, 80-90 pts. Cat will score 35+ goals. Ed and Seider will lock down the back end. All we need is for our goalies to pan out and our core looks good. Then we just need to flesh out the lineup with quality depth and thankfully we have a ton of pieces to make it happen. Every team would be better with a MacKinnon or McDavid for sure. But lots of teams are winning playoff games right now without those guys so I don’t think the lack of a premium piece is our issue.
- Yesterday
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Yeah, I don't think you and I really hardcore disagree. Yzerman's picks are becoming NHLers and the pro scouting is boning us hard. At the end of the day, it's a question of how much faith you have in the youth. Personally, I like our young pieces. I can talk them up better than anyone can talk them up. I see the potential; it's obvious. Like, if a Sabres fan (the only fan we can dunk on with a straight face at this point, alas) steps to me with "Yzerfraud can't draft," I'd say Seider and Edvinsson were both 6th overall picks. They're gonna be logging insane minutes for a long, long time. They're gonna be playing in all situations. They're gonna be shutting down superstars and racking up points. These are players you get with top-3 picks. I wanted us to take Kasper. I've always felt - and still feel - everyone's wrong when they say his absolute ceiling is a fringe 2C. I could go on. So I'm definitely not blind to the good work Yzerman's done. But! But. But. But. I'm concerned. There's no way around it for me at this point. What's the difference between a mediocre team and a team with a lot of good players but nothing that really sets the team apart from half the other teams in the league? That's my fear. That all of Yzerman's picks could "be players" and it may not even matter because there's never that moment where everything clicks into place. My fear is Larkin hits 32 and we're just a fringe playoff team that gets overwhelmed by deeper teams and elite players who win close games in overtime. Is this rooted in airtight logic? Nah. I'm talking vibes. I freely concede that. Because we're all going on vibes at this point. Because vibes is kinda all we have. "So what is it you want?" Well, I don't really want Mitch Marner. I think we "need" a Marner, but I think I'm like you (and please correct me if I'm misrepresenting you here) in that I wonder what the hell our pro scouts actually do for a living. Which is to say: If we could, you know, bring in outside help actually helps, we're probably not even having this conversation. Doesn't have to (and probably shouldn't) be a $14M player. Just get us some actual good established players. I want to see what this team really is when it isn't weighed down by useless bloat. I want Yzerman to "be here now" instead of saying "I'm going to sign this plug for three years because three years from now is when this prospect will be ready." So that's why "the plan" frustrates me. I think the plan, at this point, is working against itself. Yzerman wants to incubate the youth and is willing to wait another ten years, but I think the youth is ready to roll and Yzerman's just kinda like "Yeah, ok, but winning now could mean losing later. I want a team that's gonna be competitive for the next 40 years." And the team keeps collapsing. And losing becomes the default expectation. And "all of a sudden" we're Buffalo and the cancer is terminal. I don't want to become Buffalo.
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- Last week
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I'm ready for Larionov to replace Varady. I am not sure about any goalie coaches. How well do former goalies do in that role? Does Ed Belfour still live locally in Michigan?
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I think Yzerman is still building this "particularly deep" lineup. Add Danielson and ASP and Cossa and Augustine and Mazur and and and... Since SY has taken over the plan was never to build around Larkin. Larkin (if he's still around) will be the old man on the Cup team. Just like Yzerman was. The actual core of the team started with Seider. I think @Jimmybigrigs69said the exact same thing years ago. The Red Wings didn't win diddly squat when Yzerman was their best player. They started winning when Lidstrom and Fedorov were their best players. Florida won a President's Trophy BEFORE they traded for Tkachuk. Yzerman is building a team of work horses and then he's (hoping) to go get a superstar or two to put them over the top. And it's not like his track record on this has been bad. His workhorses keep exceeding expectations. He's accomplishing the mission. I think you could argue that it's the periphery moves that are killing the momentum. For example, we drafted TWO absolute units on defense and they're were/are both playing out of their minds at an EXTREMELY early part of their careers. Things couldn't have gone better with Seider and Edvinsson and our defense still blows because we've surrounded them with puds. And it's not like we just couldn't land better talent. We ALREADY HAD IT. Swap Walman, Gostisbehere, and Maatta for Gustafsson, Petry, and Holl and your defense isn't a total nightmare. Keep one of Sprong or Fabbri instead of Motte and maybe our even strength scoring isn't absolutely abysmal. Swap Perron for Tarasenko and your team has a pulse... ...then add the Edvinsson, Kasper, Johansson, Sodorblom that we saw this season and you're looking at a much better team. Maybe not a contender, but a playoff team for sure. And you keep building from there. Nobody can blame this season on "too many kids, not enough experience". Our pro scouting has absolutely f*cked this team for two seasons in a row. Combined with the fact that Lalonde (and the organization as whole) has a default preference for milktoast puds who "defend well" over dynamic players who bring a number of other elements to the table. They justified Motte's roster spot because of his PK "prowess" and our PK is historically bad. Gustafson was supposed to be a cheaper, more defensively responsible, version of Ghost. In reality he's barely cheaper and no better defensively, but MUCH worse offensively. Tarasenko costs more, and scores less than any of Fabbri, Perron, or Sprong. There's no problem with Yzerman's plan (build around HIS draft picks). That's actually going really really well. The problem is that no team is built entirely of their own draft picks. And when SY and the gang flesh out the rest of the roster they routinely shoot themselves in the foot.
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It is with a heavy heart that I announce that muh habies and muh oilies are at it again.
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Lions cooking 5 star meals in the draft again. 1st rd - DL Tyleik Williams - 6'3" 326 lbs out of OSU. Big n fast. Film nerd who loves to prep. Perfect replacement for McNeil (injured) and then for Reader (likely gone after this year). 2nd rd - IOL Tate Ratledge - 6'6" 320 lbs out of Georgia. Reporters saying you couldnt have stopped Dan from selecting this guy even if you had heavy weapons. Mullet. Mustache. Loves hunting. Him and Ragnow are about to be boyssss. Perfect Zeitler replacement. 3rd rd - WR Isaac Teslaa - 6'4" 200+ lb out of Arkansas. Grew up in Hudsonville MI. Fast and big. The white/light version of megatron. Vanillatron. This is your jamo replacement when we cant afford to pay him after his 4th/5th year. Lions drafting, development, and culture is insanely ahead of the rest of the league. Yzerman needs to take notes. Dynasty time boyos lez go.
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Shapiro reports Westlund is out. I believe Bultman had reported Wings being pleased with him, but that was under Lalonde I think.
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My point is we don't pop in either of the senses you're describing; we don't have 5,000-point scorers and we're not particularly deep. In a perfect world, we're Florida and we just run over everyone because we have no holes and our big guns kill and we forecheck like our lives depend on it. But teams like that are rare. My "realistic" hope is we become a team that's a pain in the ass to play against because every player is good and pulls his weight. But this is two straight seasons now that our personnel has wilted when the intensity ramped up and the stakes got real. A serious team doesn't drop both of those Columbus games. So, we can talk about Brayden Point...but do we have a lot of Brayden Points? Do we have any? Do we have x factors? Do we have the ingredients we need to become a team that gets it done in [insert any way you want]? To be fair, this is fan fatigue and frustration talking; I'm not being super-objective. But I look across the table at the super-objective crowd and it's just stats nerds and podcast bros (but I repeat myself) who will spend this summer writing Athletic pieces about how Yzerman needs to weaponize our cap space and take on some bad contracts in exchange for second-round picks, because that's how you build a winner. It's not all bad. Like I said, we do have good pieces. Edvinsson could end up being better than Seider; that's how good a rookie season he just had, imo. Kasper's a breath of fresh air. DeBrincat silenced his critics this season; he was great. Raymond's just getting started. ASP could be a gamechanger, or at least a really good complement to Seider and Edvinsson. (Maybe.) But is this going to be enough? Have we planted the seeds of perennial contention? Is time the only thing that separates us from glory? Or do we just have a lot of nice pieces and are we all going to feel quite silly if Carter Mazur's career is over before it even began? These are the questions that should be keeping Yzerman up at night.
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Pagnotta reports Todd is planning a big shakeup and rework of the coaching staff. >Yawney - i dont see him leaving. Hes been Todds right hand man everywhere with him. >Tanguay - maybe gone? But I thought he did well with his responsibilities, PP and scoring. >Westlund - again id be surprised. Its been reported the wings are very happy with the new goalie coaches work. >Varaday - as good as gone. Surely a big shakeup cant mean just Varaday?
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God bless the Saints for not taking Sanders last night lol Honestly I can see how Saints mgmt would think that. Campbell is a "players coach" and I complain about these types all the time in regards to hockey. Mostly because I think the mast majority of them are not effective in this approach, and one who is is really rare.
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Ya I miss Dan. We couldn't keep him because our mgmt team in N.O. thought he was just an overgrown cheerleader with no real football IQ. Our loss.
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It's really Campbell IMO. It's amazing how quickly a great coach/leader can fix an entire franchise. Lions players will go through walls for him, and other teams players want to play for him. We went from Gronkowski saying he'd rather retire than play for the Lions, to 5 years later Gronk saying he'd love to come out of retirement to play for the Lions. And Campbell and Holmes are really in sync. Always talk about how they make all decisions together. Dan has a blueprint of the type of player he wants, and if a guy doesnt fit that, Brad aint drafting him. Lions team mantra is "GRIT" I wish the Wings had something like that... or any type of mantra for that matter...
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Who TF cares about these semantics at this point? Larkin's been taken off the PK. Copp takes on the elites. Larks still not producing and now whining publicly. Seider gained a legit teammate in Edvinsson. Still playing like the neutered version of his rookie self. I highly doubt Marco Kasper is the key depth piece that magically fixes this roster from top down. Maybe injecting a true "difference maker" turns the middle mush around. Maybe injecting 5 more solid depth pieces does the same. Who TF cares? Neither is happening anytime near soon. This roster is still so far from competitive its sad. We have a cultural problem that starts from the top down. Yzerman has accomplished none of his goals. 6 seasons in and we're employing an interim emergency coach picked up mid season because no other team wanted him. We have a captain that is morally shattered, publicly disastisfied with the team, and IMO has learned to be a "loser". Our other leader - Kane - already has his cups and is content coasting into retirement on a builder. Only reason he's even here is bc Detroit is perfectly nestled between his home in Illinois and his home in Buffalo. Team needs a collosal facelift shakeup IMHO.
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I don't agree with your conclusions. Recent history has shown that deep teams, with more top end talent throughout their lineup, are better than teams that have elite top end talent but not as much depth. I can't imagine too many GMs would rather be Edmonton than Florida despite the fact that the Oilers have the better "difference makers". Contrary to what most people think, I don't believe we need those pad the stats guys. We need guys that will allow Seider to go from 45 points to 65 (think Duncan Keith) points and still be a rock defensively. We need the guy who eats some defensive zone starts so Larkin can stay healthy and score 95 points. Same with Raymond. We haven't had those guys because we've've lacked qualtiy depth forever. So our top end guys get keyed on. Depth changes that. If Marco Kasper can eat those "Anthony Cirelli" type minutes, then Larkin gets to play "Brayden Point" type minutes. Same with Raymond and Seider. Those guys stand to gain a lot when they're not eating the best the opposition can throw at them for 20 mins a night.
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I have tonnes of Lions fans for friends and as a Saints fan I'm pretty jealous. You have a GM who you trust completely and your team benefits from his smarts and how he puts his team together. My draft viewing party of one just keeps muttering things like don't fugq it up. again.
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Well, the plan is to wait for the kids to magically turn us into a contender. Which sounds nice, but I'm not seeing it. I mean, I like the pieces. Don't get me wrong. Raymond could be a 100-point player in his prime. But if we're being brutally objective, it's looking like all Yzerman's really assembled is the bare minimum core you'd expect from a non-elite playoff team. We have a good 1C. We have a good 1D. We have a couple good scoring wingers. Edvinsson's good. Kasper's good. But if ASP isn't an absolute monster or Cossa isn't Carey Price...then I don't know what makes us special. So, yeah: mushy middle.
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Stoked for the draft tomorrow! Brad Holmes is one of the biggest draft day wheeler dealers, so I'm expecting action. Thinking he may try to move up in the 1st to snag the edge rusher he wants. But if that guy isnt in range I could see us taking an interior O linemen as well. One of the interesting storylines is NFL insider Breer reported Monday morning that the Lions are open to trading WR2 Jameson Williams at the draft. Breer is a bit untrustworthy... so i didnt put much stock into that. Losing your already primo WR2, whose probably going to get even better, doesnt make much sense when your in the superbowl hunt....right? But then later that day Williams started posting a buncha angry cryptic messages on his instagram about "loyalty" and "suckas" and "choosing sides". And I was like fuqqqqq maybe the Lions already informed him to prepare for a trade. But then Lions social media posted a pic of Williams this afternoon saying "were all good here!" So maybe the insta crap was an unrelated coincidence??? Either way, were not going to be able to afford keeping all our young stars, and as long as we have StBrown, Williams is expendable. Couple that with his off field antics, and rookie contract ending after this season, I see a case for moving on him from now... i just dont know how you replace his talent b4 the season starts... Also, Kerby Joseph extended today. Now the highest paid safety in NFL history. Lez fuqqin gooooo
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And then say fuq it and trade for Rempe too. This team needs a radical new identity. Larkin leaving is the perfect time to flip that on its head. NYR cant re-sign all their boys and may very well be losing Rempe anyway. To NYR: Berggren + Rasmussen + the extra 1st acquired from CBJ To DET: RW Rempe + LHD K'Andre Miller Johnny Bergers and Ras are too soft and gray for our teams new in your face mentality. Go do your perimeter scoring in the big apple. Miller has been on the block with NYR bc they likely cant afford his extension. But we can. Big 6'5" scary black man who can score. Welcome to the D big pimpin. Dcat - Kasper - Raymond Soderblom - Sillinger - JTC Tarasenko - Copp - Olivier Mazur - Danielson - Rempe Edvinsson - Seider Miller - Chiarot Ajo - Gustafsson Is this lineup going to win you the cup? No. Will it get pushed around while Kasper, Danielson, Soderblom, Sillinger, Mazur, Edvinsson, and Ajo develop? FUQ NO! That lineup would be littered with highmotor young guns in big roles, with nasty shopwreckers to back them up. Its okay to lose - but push the other teams s*** in every night and make them pay for it.
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I doubt they wanna move Fantilli or Johnson. Theyre basically younger versions of Larkin so thats be a lateral move at best. BJs do make a lot of sense though. Theyd be adding a vet leader their young group needs after losing Gaudreau, and uniting butt buddies Dylan and Zach. They also have an extra 1st this year, so sending one to us is something they can easily afford. To CBJ: Larkin To DET: C Cole Sillinger + RW Mathieu Olivier + 1st Sillinger is the young replacement center we can develop. We drafted his dad Mike way back when, and he narrowly missed winning a cup with us in the 90s. Mike would be familiar with our entire nepotistic front office, and has done scouting work in the past, so might as well give him a job too. Olivier is probably the best pound for pound fighter in the league, outside maybe Rempe or Reaves. Except Olivier can also put up 30+ pts a season unlike those two goons. We could nab him now b4 his NTC kicks in. Dcat - Kasper - Raymond Soderblom - Sillinger - JTC Mazur - Copp - Olivier Berggren - Ras - Tarasenko
