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DaKineMaui

TOUGH GUY! (this season)

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Do the Wings need to sign a FIGHTER?  

126 members have voted

  1. 1. Do the Wings need to sign a FIGHTER?

    • YES - we're overdue
      97
    • NO - no need in this 'new' league
      25
    • WHAT? We already have one (name him below)
      2


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Even though tough guys kinda have the rules stacked against them, the Wings still need someone to do their dirty work. I think we'll probably see even fewer fights this season, but it would be great to see a big, hard-hitting winger added to the Wings' roster. If he can also fight, outstanding.

Good call.

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We need to go back in time and bring Probie back...minus the coke

I know this is fairly callous and I don't mean to affend anyone, But Probie never was the same player after he got "cleaned up." Neither was McCarty after he became sober (which of course was great for him).

It seems to be a very unfortunate situation where some enforcers are great because of substance abuse.

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I know this is fairly callous and I don't mean to affend anyone, But Probie never was the same player after he got "cleaned up." Neither was McCarty after he became sober (which of course was great for him).

It seems to be a very unfortunate situation where some enforcers are great because of substance abuse.

No offense taken. A drunk is a drunk. Addict is an addict. No matter their job.

I agree with your post.

They did what they did. We'll never know for sure why?

I do know we wouldn't let Keith Richards play 4th line tough guy just because he's high though right?

Probie and Mac have skills......and may they stay sober. And may Bootland keep Stevie safe. You hear us Boots??????

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DARRYL BOOTLAND thumbup.gif

hes a fighting machine, just give him a shot, he racks up the pim with his fighting, just look at his stats

I love Bootland, I think he is a great player and fighter but he will not be able protect the Wings from the likes of Cairns. Sure he will fight them but if it is a guy like Cairns then he won't be scared of fighting Bootland so he will take shots at the Wings. Where as if you have a huge toughguy, like Cairns, he might not take as much shots at the Wings because he will be in for a tough scrap.

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DARRYL BOOTLAND thumbup.gif

hes a fighting machine, just give him a shot, he racks up the pim with his fighting, just look at his stats

I love Bootland, I think he is a great player and fighter but he will not be able protect the Wings from the likes of Cairns. Sure he will fight them but if it is a guy like Cairns then he won't be scared of fighting Bootland so he will take shots at the Wings. Where as if you have a huge toughguy, like Cairns, he might not take as much shots at the Wings because he will be in for a tough scrap.

Exactly right and Holland knows this that is why he said "we have no toughness" meaning that we have no one to fight the heavyweights in the league and Holland said that he would address this through waivers or trades.

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I voted a hearty YES. I am not much for the kind of tough guy arms race that has the Scott Parkers of the world on the ice, (let's not forget that Probie actually could play hockey). But I think that having some serious back-up would change the complexion of this team.

I think it's pretty ridiculous to expect Shanny to be the closest thing to a heavyweight we have. Although I think a lot of people forget how well he's held his own in the past ( not fair to call some-one who went toe to toe with Probie a ***** really), he's not the youngest anymore.

I'm rambling after all these beers, but having at least a half assed heavy would allow everyone else on the team to defend themselves without having to worry about dealing with the other teams tough guy...

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EXACTLY.....could not agree more.  Watching hockey on some nights, I do NOT care how good the D is or the scoring should be or how hot the goalkeep is - if you're getting pushed around like a bi**H every shift and no calls are being made?  You're not going to win that night.

Complain all you want that night - OR - have someone who can take care of it in the first period next time.

Yeah, I'd like to see someone in the Enforcer role. The enclosed quote reminded me of the Calgary series in the 03/04 finals. How frustrating to watch your team get bowled over? Finesse and precision don't mean anything if the other guys can neutralize your skills by slapping the RW around.

carpe diem.

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how far off is this big snake guy? I know he's just a prospect but he didn't hesitate to drop the gloves pretty freaking quick against a much bigger opponent in camp. Maybe we could call him up when we needed too?

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I didn't grow up in Canada, so I probably don't have crucial bits of knowledge on fighting. So please, explain it to me. I have been watching NHL hockey for the last 12 years or so, and in 90% of the cases when there's a fight, a typical situation occurs:

Something happens in the game, e.g. instigator X does something dirty to a skilled player Y. In the next shift or so, enforcer for Y's team challenges the enforcer for X's team. They proceed to beat each other bloody and proudly go out for 5 min., or a game. At no point in time is X actually punished.

So how is this "policing the game"? Please hold the outrage, I do not mean to insult or challenge anybody, just trying to understand.

Edited by sibiriak

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I didn't grow up in Canada, so I probably don't have crucial bits of knowledge on fighting. So please, explain it to me. I have been watching NHL hockey for the last 12 years or so, and in 90% of the cases when there's a fight, a typical situation occurs:

Something happens in the game, e.g. instigator X does something dirty to a skilled player Y. In the next shift or so, enforcer for Y's team challenges the enforcer for X's team. They proceed to beat each other bloody and proudly go out for 5 min., or a game. At no point in time is X actually punished.

So how is this "policing the game"? Please hold the outrage, I do not mean to insult or challenge anybody, just trying to understand.

It's simply a question of standing up. If nothing happens when instigator X does something dirty, it sends the message that you can get away with it and if that happens your team is generally in big trouble. The opposing team now has a huge psychological advantage and before you know it they're all tough guys taking liberties in every situation.

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I didn't grow up in Canada, so I probably don't have crucial bits of knowledge on fighting. So please, explain it to me. I have been watching NHL hockey for the last 12 years or so, and in 90% of the cases when there's a fight, a typical situation occurs:

Something happens in the game, e.g. instigator X does something dirty to a skilled player Y. In the next shift or so, enforcer for Y's team challenges the enforcer for X's team. They proceed to beat each other bloody and proudly go out for 5 min., or a game. At no point in time is X actually punished.

So how is this "policing the game"?  Please hold the outrage, I do not mean to insult or challenge anybody, just trying to understand.

It's simply a question of standing up. If nothing happens when instigator X does something dirty, it sends the message that you can get away with it and if that happens your team is generally in big trouble. The opposing team now has a huge psychological advantage and before you know it they're all tough guys taking liberties in every situation.

But what is it that would deter a non-enforcer type player from playing dirty? He never has to fight. Its like the teams enforcer is the whipping boy for the rest of the team. Will the enforcer beat up the offenders on his own team after the game for making him fight? Otherwise, I don't see any punihment for dirty play.

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I didn't grow up in Canada, so I probably don't have crucial bits of knowledge on fighting. So please, explain it to me. I have been watching NHL hockey for the last 12 years or so, and in 90% of the cases when there's a fight, a typical situation occurs:

Something happens in the game, e.g. instigator X does something dirty to a skilled player Y. In the next shift or so, enforcer for Y's team challenges the enforcer for X's team. They proceed to beat each other bloody and proudly go out for 5 min., or a game. At no point in time is X actually punished.

So how is this "policing the game"?  Please hold the outrage, I do not mean to insult or challenge anybody, just trying to understand.

It's simply a question of standing up. If nothing happens when instigator X does something dirty, it sends the message that you can get away with it and if that happens your team is generally in big trouble. The opposing team now has a huge psychological advantage and before you know it they're all tough guys taking liberties in every situation.

But what is it that would deter a non-enforcer type player from playing dirty? He never has to fight. Its like the teams enforcer is the whipping boy for the rest of the team. Will the enforcer beat up the offenders on his own team after the game for making him fight? Otherwise, I don't see any punihment for dirty play.

Any player that plays dirty will have to fight sooner or later (enforcer or not). Players don't let a dirty play slip. If the player won't respond to the challenge, a teammate may step up in his place. Usually an enforcer. The enforcer won't be there every time though. If you play dirty, you will be punished. Someone will just grab a hold and start throwing.

An enforcer fighting another enforcer is more of a psychological battle. One that not seldom will affect the outcome of the game.

Edited by RyanBarnes!

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I know this is fairly callous and I don't mean to affend anyone, But Probie never was the same player after he got "cleaned up." Neither was McCarty after he became sober (which of course was great for him).

It seems to be a very unfortunate situation where some enforcers are great because of substance abuse.

I know Mac has his ups and downs with additction, but I think his fighting skills were at their best after spending that glorious summer of 02 booze-free and working out in a boxing gym. I saw Grinder that summer, and Mac was sober and ripped like Bruce Lee (I was drunk off my gourd and lugging a corresponding beer gut; both issues have since been rectified). During the 02-03 and 03-04 season, he was literally wrecking opponents as I saw him drop guys and bust heads open often by landing a single hit. Mac hits very very hard, and fast. I've heard through grapevines that the lockout season didn't go too well for Darren as far as staying clean was concerned, but hopefully his new job with Calgary will help him get back on track.

I grudginly acquiesce to the economic realities of the NNHL and the subsquent moving on of Mr. D Mac, but he is exactly the kind of player we need, someone who can beat the horses*** outta anyone that calls for it, and still skate well, play some defense, and maybe even chip in a goal or 2 once in a while*.

To sate this need, we have a number of options, some more appealing than others, although the more appealing options tend to be the less possible.

1. Trade Datsyuk for someone affordable who can score as well as chuck em. Players like Brenden Morrow or Mark Bell, who have good hands for punching and scoring and are young enough to contribute to the future build of the team. Very efficient and effective when paired with option 2. This is my preferred option, but I doubt any GM, especially one from Chicago or Dallas, is gonna be falling all over himself to take on the headache that is Datsyuk and help us out in the process.

2. Daryll Bootland. Its been said that Boots hasn't been the same since getting his clock cleaned by Todd Simpson in December of 03. I'm of the mind that a big part of becoming a great fighter is getting your ass kicked once in a while, and that by now Boots is well past the Simpson beating. Bootland is also a competent checker and brings more than just the slug goon thing to the ice. Last season with Da GRG, Boots had 14 goals, 20 helpers, and a whopping 336 PIM, finishing +5 to boot (sorry). Not too shabby. This is the most likely option to materialize, and I don't think we'll be too bad off with just Boots, but I'd feel more comfortable with some additional muscle of course.

3. Sniff around teams with cap issues. Problem is, if we sign Datsyuk, we have cap issues of our own. If not, this approach could land a player somewhere betwen the caliber of option 1 and the following option. NJ doesn't have much to offer in the way of forwards who can throw without being a liability that I know of. Other teams may, but no one comes to mind at the moment.

4. Aquire by trade or UFA a classic goon, who contributes nothing but fists to the mix. Now, I like me some fightin, but I also think that the age of the dedicated brawler has long since passed. The Wings would be better served to rely on Boots and Babcock-inspired team toughness than to burn a roster spot and even NNHL minimum wage on any such burden.

* with Patrick Roy now retired, Darren McCarty will never again score a hat trick.

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I have been watching NHL hockey for the last 12 years or so, and in 90% of the cases when there's a fight, a typical situation occurs:

Something happens in the game, e.g. instigator X does something dirty to a skilled player Y. In the next shift or so, enforcer for Y's team challenges the enforcer for X's team.

So how is this "policing the game"?

90%? I don't know about that.

The flaw I see in your equation would be that, "enforcer for Y's team challenges the enforcer for X's team."

Enforcer for Y's team should be going after "instigator X" in your scenario.

(AFTER that, enforcers from team X and Y may or may not want to settle it further, but that is not a neccesity in the unwritten rules.)

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DARRYL BOOTLAND thumbup.gif

hes a fighting machine, just give him a shot, he racks up the pim with his fighting, just look at his stats

I love Bootland, I think he is a great player and fighter but he will not be able protect the Wings from the likes of Cairns. Sure he will fight them but if it is a guy like Cairns then he won't be scared of fighting Bootland so he will take shots at the Wings. Where as if you have a huge toughguy, like Cairns, he might not take as much shots at the Wings because he will be in for a tough scrap.

I don't get it. Bootland isn't ready for the NHL (per Babcock and his staff). Therefore, Bootland is not the heavyweight answer. Why do people keep mentioning him? He's playing in GR and not coming up soon (if at all this season).

Besides, isn't he too small to be considered a true heavyweight?

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We doing ok so far without a "tough guy". Hopefully Kenny was right and our guys stay healthy.

I don't think there's any way of telling until this season is done. It's still too early for players to feel beat up etc. After 60 games or so, we might know what to expect in the postseason. I still can't understand why someone would be willing to take this risk. thumbdown.gif

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I don't think there's any way of telling until this season is done. It's still too early for players to feel beat up etc. After 60 games or so, we might know what to expect in the postseason. I still can't understand why someone would be willing to take this risk. thumbdown.gif

Probably because it's not as much of a risk as you want to make it look to be.

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