Who's Andy Delmore,

[mutherpucker27 0]

Well, if the point of having worthless players is to protect our stars and keep teams from hitting them, it doesn't make much sense if they inspire the other team to hit them more.

How about we just have star players who don't whine about being hit and need to hide behind the big bad enforcer clenching their panties in fear?

[USAFWingedWheel 4]

I thought they were soft with those two guys -- they are now jello without them (or replacements).

hatcher didn't do s**t for the wings....you wouldn't believe how many times my neighbor came over to see if everything was ok cause i was yelling at the tv (cause hatcher was a pylon)....it was embarassing to watch hatch, hell, i'd take probert back if he wasn't locked up somewhere in south florida....

[Dominator2005 558]

Well, if the point of having worthless players is to protect our stars and keep teams from hitting them, it doesn't make much sense if they inspire the other team to hit them more.

How about we just have star players who don't whine about being hit and need to hide behind the big bad enforcer clenching their panties in fear?

You are going to pay Zetterberg and Datsyuk to start hitting other players or to score some goals??? You need to have a perfect mix talent + grit + speed if you want to win some games...

Edited August 15, 2005 by Dominator2005

[kocur26_26 0]

ok, now that we haven't won the cup in 3 yrs we are too soft (even though we won the presidents trophy and actually made it to the playoffs unlike 14 other teams)....and then you say it like hatcher and mac put fear in anyone...sorry, but every time hatch was on the ice he was a huge liability, he was slow and easy to get around; and as for mac, he lost his step since 98, he's gotten slower didn't contribute as much as the rest of the grindline...we need grit not knuckles....

Hatcher did put fear into people. I would put him in the heavyweight category for fighters and this is what I'm talking about. NOt how well he played D. The fact he was on the Ice kept players in line when they saw someone with their heads down and could really cream them, they might think twice knowing he could be on the ice. I agree we need grit. a guy like gratton ( just an example) would have filled that need great. I hope we sign a couple of guys like that, but Wings need a heavyweight.

[USAFWingedWheel 4]

Well, if the point of having worthless players is to protect our stars and keep teams from hitting them, it doesn't make much sense if they inspire the other team to hit them more.

How about we just have star players who don't whine about being hit and need to hide behind the big bad enforcer clenching their panties in fear?

sort of like naslund was clocked by moore and then big bad bertuzzi picked a fight because the star players are untouchable....what a crock...

[USAFWingedWheel 4]

Hatcher did put fear into people. I would put him in the heavyweight category for fighters and this is what I'm talking about. NOt how well he played D. The fact he was on the Ice kept players in line when they saw someone with their heads down and could really cream them, they might think twice knowing he could be on the ice. I agree we need grit. a guy like gratton ( just an example) would have filled that need great. I hope we sign a couple of guys like that, but Wings need a heavyweight.

ok, so hatchers size might scare some small russian offensman coming at him, but how many times did we get scored on because hatcher was too slow to be usefull...hell, you want intimidation, we can get tyson to learn how to stay up on skates and would be just as useless as hatcher....

[mutherpucker27 0]

Dominator, I'm going to pay Datsyuk and Zetterberg to DO BOTH. We don't need one dimensional scorers anymore than we need one dimensional fighters. We need players who are willing to grind it out at both ends of the rink AND score goals. Our problem w/ playoff scoring wasn't that we didn't have any goons to score goals; our problem w/ playoff scoring was our forwards were too ***** to go down and cycle the puck down low and pay the price in front of the net. They just floated out at the perimiter. And signing Brad Brown is not going to make Shanahan go behind the net or convince Datsyuk to hang out in the slot. That's a coaching issue. Not a goonery issue.

[DraperFan MN 0]

I think the enforcer that will be playing the fourth line is going to have the name Robin Big Snake.

[kocur26_26 0]

ok, so hatchers size might scare some small russian offensman coming at him, but how many times did we get scored on because hatcher was too slow to be usefull...hell, you want intimidation, we can get tyson to learn how to stay up on skates and would be just as useless as hatcher....

ok, so your problem is I used hatcher as an example. I get the point you dont like him. Dont worry he's not on the team anymore. there are plenty of guys out there that can fight and be a solid 4th liner.

[fightfan24 0]

Good times... that is the kind of goonery that is enjoyable to watch.

Those are scrums, nobody even drops gloves -- the last time I saw Cheli drop the gloves and fight he lost to Luc Robitaille. Any resistence is nice though in this age.

Chelios used to jump in and grab Bob Probert from behind when Probie was running guys but that is chicken dropping in alot of books.

They will grab a couple tough guys off the sCRAP heap but there are not any top notch heavyweights out there except Matt Johnson.

[mutherpucker27 0]

But having a guy who can fight and be a solid 4th liner will have no impact on our w/l record, regular season OR playoffs. I'm more concerned w/ the ppl who are going to play than the ppl who are going to sit on the bench. We need more grit, obviously, but we need more grit from the players on our top 3 lines, not from worthless goons who aren't going to play. That's coaching and mentality, and I *hope* that'll be fixed w/ Babcock.

[ToddDaGod 0]

Someone has some Homo-issues...

Wouldn't you like to know. Sorry, not interested, I'm married.

While Chelios may not be a typical "Goon" he is willing to get into tussles with some pretty big dudes... does anyone remember he and Bertuzzi going at it?

Well I do agree it takes some balls to go with Bertuzzi, I'm a little worried that our "goon" is 43 years old. During the 2004 season he also took on someone from Nashville, I forget his name, that was 23. He didn't do too bad, but he certainly didn't look comfortable.

sort of like naslund was clocked by moore and then big bad bertuzzi picked a fight because the star players are untouchable....what a crock...

Bad example, because they had Big Bert to make him pay the price, which was way over board. But, if somebody took a shot like that at Yzerman, I would want more than an apology. A goon won't stop any hitting, but it won't encourage people to run over us.

hatcher didn't do s**t for the wings....you wouldn't believe how many times my neighbor came over to see if everything was ok cause i was yelling at the tv (cause hatcher was a pylon)....it was embarassing to watch hatch, hell, i'd take probert back if he wasn't locked up somewhere in south florida....

I didn't realize he had the chance.

[Barnes52 0]

Barnes: if there was a player like Chris Simon or Tie Domi (of a few years ago, he's washed up now) on the market, I'd be all over them. Hell, I'd love to have Avery back. But some of these guys I'me hearing thrown around were healthy scratches for teams like the Rangers. There's a difference between a goon and a guy who can be goony AND play hockey.

Hell, think we could swing a trade for Georges Laraque? There's a guy I wouldn't object to putting on the ice.

I bet he's expendable, Edmonton has a few guys who can fill his role. But Holland would never pick up the phone...sad . If you remember, I was pulling for Scatchard and Lapointe, and a cheap d-man like Simpson, have Bootland play a fourth line role and I'd have been more than happy. Now, because Holland's sitting on his hands, we're left with the pick me overs. I still think there are some bargains out there, but I'm not a big Worrell fan either. So please stop assuming that:

A) I want to trade Zetterberg and Datsyuk for Wade Belak

That I want a pure goon who can't skate or who will be a healthy scratch for 2/3 of the season.

My favorite players are guys like Roberts, Scatchard, Domi, Tucker, Lindros, Jovanoski, Corson. Guys that can score and back up their gritty play. I can do without guys like Worrell or Burnett, but unfortunately that kind of toughness is better than none.

Edited August 15, 2005 by Barnes52

[Dominator2005 558]

Dominator, I'm going to pay Datsyuk and Zetterberg to DO BOTH. We don't need one dimensional scorers anymore than we need one dimensional fighters. We need players who are willing to grind it out at both ends of the rink AND score goals. Our problem w/ playoff scoring wasn't that we didn't have any goons to score goals; our problem w/ playoff scoring was our forwards were too ***** to go down and cycle the puck down low and pay the price in front of the net. They just floated out at the perimiter. And signing Brad Brown is not going to make Shanahan go behind the net or convince Datsyuk to hang out in the slot. That's a coaching issue. Not a goonery issue.

I disagree with you...

So if Gretzky have played that style of hockey: hitting + scoring he could not do what he have done in the NHL.

Pen's should say to Crosby to start hitting??? Why they picked up VandenBussche and Roy??? You think that Palffy is going to play gritty??? They need him to score goals... You wants to have one dimensional players... Scorers must think of scoring and 3rd and 4th lines bringing energy and changing momentum of the game...

[Barnes52 0]

I think the enforcer that will be playing the fourth line is going to have the name Robin Big Snake.

I sense he's GR Griffs bound, but I hope you're right

[fightfan24 0]

Wouldn't you like to know. Sorry, not interested, I'm married.

While Chelios may not be a typical "Goon" he is willing to get into tussles with some pretty big dudes... does anyone remember he and Bertuzzi going at it?

Well I do agree it takes some balls to go with Bertuzzi, I'm a little worried that our "goon" is 43 years old. During the 2004 season he also took on someone from Nashville, I forget his name, that was 23. He didn't do too bad, but he certainly didn't look comfortable.

Bad example, because they had Big Bert to make him pay the price, which was way over board. But, if somebody took a shot like that at Yzerman, I would want more than an apology. A goon won't stop any hitting, but it won't encourage people to run over us.

I didn't realize he had the chance.

I didn't see much of Hatcher to judge his play.

Probert? The alltime greatest fighter is now lounging in his backyard in Windsor sipping an ice tea awaiting his next court date -- out of the game for four years. (he'd still be our best fighter, lol).

[kocur26_26 0]

But having a guy who can fight and be a solid 4th liner will have no impact on our w/l record, regular season OR playoffs. I'm more concerned w/ the ppl who are going to play than the ppl who are going to sit on the bench. We need more grit, obviously, but we need more grit from the players on our top 3 lines, not from worthless goons who aren't going to play. That's coaching and mentality, and I *hope* that'll be fixed w/ Babcock.

Having a guy who can fight on the 4th line will impact our win/loss record by protecting our stars. Whats to stop a player from targeting our stars and giving them cheap shots if there is no one who can keep them in line. Our star players will all be beat up and not able to play at 100%.

[mutherpucker27 0]

Barnes: Well, you're not the only person who's commented, and most ppl seem to want some guy who can't play, just fight. Worse, they want to waste a defenseman's slot on a guy like that.

lol, and you should see the Bruins' reactions when they got Scatchard. The "Fire Mike O'Connell" cries were out in force. While Isles fans laughed at them and told them to get used to a worthless, lazy player. So I dunno, maybe they all don't know what they're talking about, or maybe Scatchard isn't that great. *shrugs* I wouldn't have objected to that signing, I don't think.

And isn't Lapointe still making like 2 mill? That's too much, w/ our cap problems.

I dunno, I see where you're coming from, but I don't think its going to make or break the season. And I frankly dislike free agent signings in general. I'd rather fill a need w/ someone from w/i the organization than a merc. Mercs rarely fix a problem, they just put a really weak patch on it.

[mutherpucker27 0]

Kocur: you think a goon's going to stop players from targetting our stars? Do you watch hockey? Other goons would be more likely to target our stars if we've got a goon on the ice. Whole retaliation bit.

[Barnes52 0]

Barnes: Well, you're not the only person who's commented, and most ppl seem to want some guy who can't play, just fight. Worse, they want to waste a defenseman's slot on a guy like that.

lol, and you should see the Bruins' reactions when they got Scatchard. The "Fire Mike O'Connell" cries were out in force. While Isles fans laughed at them and told them to get used to a worthless, lazy player. So I dunno, maybe they all don't know what they're talking about, or maybe Scatchard isn't that great. *shrugs* I wouldn't have objected to that signing, I don't think.

And isn't Lapointe still making like 2 mill? That's too much, w/ our cap problems.

I dunno, I see where you're coming from, but I don't think its going to make or break the season. And I frankly dislike free agent signings in general. I'd rather fill a need w/ someone from w/i the organization than a merc. Mercs rarely fix a problem, they just put a really weak patch on it.

He was a force for years but has had shoulder problems, serious ones. The year off helped him I'm sure, and if he plays up to his capabilities, he'll be a stud. He can score, fight and is great on face offs. I'd rather take a chance on him then a guy who couldn't find his own defensive zone with a GPS system.

[kocur26_26 0]

Kocur: you think a goon's going to stop players from targetting our stars? Do you watch hockey? Other goons would be more likely to target our stars if we've got a goon on the ice. Whole retaliation bit.

I have watched and played hockey for many years.No I do not think it will stop players from targetting our stars but it will slow it down some. Guys like hatcher, domi, worrell,among many others will always hit, cheapshot, or do whatever they want because they have no fear or are players who know that is what they are getting paid for. It will stop some and send a message that the wings are not just going to lie down and take it.

[mutherpucker27 0]

"I'd rather take a chance on him then a guy who couldn't find his own defensive zone with a GPS system."

But you wanted Gratton?

No, I agree w/ you in principle there, but I still prefer to build from w/i the organization than pick off free agent scalps.

kocur: it'll deter some, and it'll encourage others. I think on the whole, it'll have a nil effect. And it isn't going to affect whether we win or lose games, either way.

[aheer22 0]

Bootland is not an enforcer. So no, not happy now

Bootland is an agitator.. there is a difference: agitator: avery, bootland, nash enforcer: domi, Brasheer, McCarty (like 20 years ago)

[kocur26_26 0]

How has this conversation gone strictly to the goons?

[aheer22 0]

Hatcher did put fear into people. I would put him in the heavyweight category for fighters and this is what I'm talking about. NOt how well he played D. The fact he was on the Ice kept players in line when they saw someone with their heads down and could really cream them, they might think twice knowing he could be on the ice. I agree we need grit. a guy like gratton ( just an example) would have filled that need great. I hope we sign a couple of guys like that, but Wings need a heavyweight.

thats the problem.. the wings brought him here to play defense on a Norris type level.. not drop the gloves.. hell if he could play d he might still be here