Covenant 0 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 I probably would have agreed with you at one point. But one thing I'm proud of as a Detroit fan in general is that athletes with a history can come to Detroit and get a second chance. Rasheed Wallace and Kenny Rogers, etc. Guys have rebuilt their reputations in Detroit because the fans have told them, "Hey, we don't care about what happened in the past. Be a team player and play your hardest, and all that stuff is forgotten." It's something I definitely buy into. Why not see if the same can happen with Bertuzzi? Great point BetterRed thandead. First rounder is a bit steep, but what a potential force he could be in the playoffs. Imagine someone running at Pavel or Hank in the playoffs now.. whatever he's done in the past, although OBVIOUSLY despicable, if he brings us that much closer to another Cup, AND he's just a rental.. I'd go for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betterREDthandead 58 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 I am by no means a fan of Bert. He played for my most hated team - The Canucks. Even with that said : Why is something that happened between 2 teams that are NOT Detroit years ago a discussion point on why or why not we should trade for him? This is hockey, and the Wings and mgmt need to address what they are lacking for the playoffs. Seems as though a lot of people don't want him for what happened with Moore. Why is this even an issue? Because there's other reasons for being a fan and being proud of the Wings besides just championships. We'd like to think we have a clean and classy team. No Clod, Marchment, Avery (who I don't think anyone misses too badly), no dirty types. I'd like for the Winged Wheel not to be thought of as a thug symbol around the league. That said, I'm still in favor of a Bertuzzi trade if he proves he can stay healthy and contribute. As I said in the first page of this thread, Detroit is a great place for athletes to rebuild a reputation. I think Bertuzzi in the Winged Wheel can follow in the footsteps of guys like Sheed and Kenny Rogers, who had a checkered past but proved to the fans that they were unselfish and would compete hard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) I'm sorry, but these statements are ridiculous with Chris Chelios in the winged wheel. Chris Chelios in the prime of his career was one of the dirtiest players in the NHL and nowadays hes considered a Wing through and through. Theres a reason why the majority of old NHL fans hate his guts, many red wings fans pre 2000 being some of them. Back on topic, the mere fact that the Red Wings are looking at a guy like Bertuzzi makes me happy. They are looking to make big moves that get this team scoring and size. You simply cant complain about that. I would welcome Todd Bertuzzi with open arms should he join the team and play well. Probert was a crackhead, Brodeur slept with his wife's (now ex-wife's) sister. They still did their jobs and thats what theyre here for. Edited February 8, 2007 by YoungGuns1340 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mors 201 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) Since when do "Clean & Classy" teams win the Stanley Cup? I don't think Calgary knocked us out of the playoffs because of their clean skill game. The Wings' need an animal player, and if it has to be Bertuzzi then so be it. Edited February 8, 2007 by Mors Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GuloGulo 0 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 Don't give a F about Bert's antics. The problem with him aint his history, it'shis future. This is a guy who isn't scoring that much anymore, who isn't playing as physical as he did at his pinnacle, and who's coming off SURGERY. He would be a rental though, so we can ditch his ass if he's a bust. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curban915 0 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 Every single one of you know if he comes in and has a great end of the season, plays good in the playoffs you be all over him saying how that was such a good pick up. its not going to take to much to get him i think he would even stay in DET. Det will not win another cup untill they get some gritt to go with the talent. Look at oilers, flames. you need some brute force and violence in the playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mors 201 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 Don't give a F about Bert's antics. The problem with him aint his history, it'shis future. This is a guy who isn't scoring that much anymore, who isn't playing as physical as he did at his pinnacle, and who's coming off SURGERY. He would be a rental though, so we can ditch his ass if he's a bust. Agree, doesn't matter to me at all what he's done in the past, my only concern is that he'll be too timid to play like the beast he was...which is what we need most. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curban915 0 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 Every single one of you know if he comes in and has a great end of the season, plays good in the playoffs you be all over him saying how that was such a good pick up. its not going to take to much to get him i think he would even stay in DET. Det will not win another cup untill they get some gritt to go with the talent. Look at oilers, flames. you need some brute force and violence in the playoffs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betterREDthandead 58 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 Since when do "Clean & Classy" teams win the Stanley Cup? I don't think Calgary knocked us out of the playoffs because of their clean skill game. The Wings' need an animal player, and if it has to be Bertuzzi then so be it. If "Cup at any cost" is how you view it, that's a damn shame, frankly. It's perfectly possible to play a clean game and still bash the opposition up and down the ice. That's hockey. Don't equate "clean and classy" with "skilled but soft". Calgary didn't beat us by having someone like Marchment use his knee as a weapon. I want Bertuzzi. I think he's worth a second chance. If he blows that second chance by using his stick as an assault weapon again, I'll try and forget he was ever a Wing. What good is a Cup if we get it because we made it to Game One of the Finals against the Sabres and Bertuzzi takes the opportunity to slash the back of Daniel Briere's knee or take a blatant run at a defenseless Ryan Miller? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sibiriak 84 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 Since when do "Clean & Classy" teams win the Stanley Cup? I don't think Calgary knocked us out of the playoffs because of their clean skill game. The Wings' need an animal player, and if it has to be Bertuzzi then so be it. Thought experiment: if OJ Simpson was good at hockey, would you want him on the Wings? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mors 201 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 Thought experiment: if OJ Simpson was good at hockey, would you want him on the Wings? Sure, if it means not watching our players get run by him in the playoffs by other less moral/ethically inclined teams/fans. I didn't realize that the reason the Wings have absolutely no toughness anymore was because we're opposed to the possibility of violence by members of our squad, my mistake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sibiriak 84 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 Sure, if it means not watching our players get run by him in the playoffs by other less moral/ethically inclined teams/fans. I didn't realize that the reason the Wings have absolutely no toughness anymore was because we're opposed to the possibility of violence by members of our squad, my mistake. There's violence, and there's violence. If I bring an M-16 to the playoff game and kill or wound half of the opposing team, would you take the win anyway? What if it wasn't a rifle, but a crowbar, or a baseball bat to the kneecap? Violence within rules, where it is not intended to cripple the oposing player, is a part of hockey. Violence out of control (and with no genuine remorse afterward) that does lead to crippling injury has no place in any sport. Truly, there are other power forwards, gritty players, enforcers who are not convicted criminals. Wings don't have to have Bert the thug to add toughness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheLegend19 1 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 The Red Wings are a very classy organization. Bertuzzi is not. I personally feel that after the Moore hit, he should have been banned from the league forever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betterREDthandead 58 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 Sure, if it means not watching our players get run by him in the playoffs by other less moral/ethically inclined teams/fans. Less ethically inclined than OJ? I didn't realize the Skating Osamas was a hockey team. sibiriak is right on. You seem to be completely unable to tell the difference between the everyday legal violence that causes the opponent to cough up the puck and the uncalled-for violence that causes the authorities to get involved. "We're opposed to the possibility of violence by the members of our squad"?? I think your avatar is appropriate. It's like "evil Wings". Black instead of white. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mors 201 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 Less ethically inclined than OJ? I didn't realize the Skating Osamas was a hockey team. sibiriak is right on. You seem to be completely unable to tell the difference between the everyday legal violence that causes the opponent to cough up the puck and the uncalled-for violence that causes the authorities to get involved. "We're opposed to the possibility of violence by the members of our squad"?? I think your avatar is appropriate. It's like "evil Wings". Black instead of white. I understand your point, and I'm not in favor of us signing Bertuzzi so he can go out and cripple people on the ice. However, my point being that a) I'm not going to hold Bertuzzi's past actions against him b) "Our powerplay is our enforcer" is an epic fail in terms of realism, I'd much rather have a couple guys who stick up for our players and fight back when needed, then to watch our mostly uneffective powerplay try to make up for the fact that players like Datsyuk have to constantly watch their backs because no one on the ice will stand up for them if someone does take a run ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betterREDthandead 58 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 I understand your point, and I'm not in favor of us signing Bertuzzi so he can go out and cripple people on the ice. However, my point being that a) I'm not going to hold Bertuzzi's past actions against him b) "Our powerplay is our enforcer" is an epic fail in terms of realism, I'd much rather have a couple guys who stick up for our players and fight back when needed, then to watch our mostly uneffective powerplay try to make up for the fact that players like Datsyuk have to constantly watch their backs because no one on the ice will stand up for them if someone does take a run ... Ditto. I'm in favor of getting Bertuzzi, if it happens, not because I don't mind him smacking someone upside the head with the business end of the stick, but because I don't think he will. If he does, screw him - thanks for tarnishing the Wings' image, and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. But if he's healthy and brings his train-wreck style of play to the playoffs for us, it can only help. I think it's about 100% consensus that we could use a bruiser that can score. So could the whole league. Demand is high for that type of player, and I'd probably pick someone else besides Bertuzzi if I could - mainly due to the health issues. But beggars can't be choosers. I'm for giving the guy a second chance like we have in the past with other Detroit pickups, and I think the ingredients are there to make it work. Being traded to Florida has got to have been like purgatory for Bertuzzi - if he's truly got the desire to win, being traded to a contender will surely reinvigorate him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mors 201 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 Ditto. I'm in favor of getting Bertuzzi, if it happens, not because I don't mind him smacking someone upside the head with the business end of the stick, but because I don't think he will. If he does, screw him - thanks for tarnishing the Wings' image, and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. But if he's healthy and brings his train-wreck style of play to the playoffs for us, it can only help. I think it's about 100% consensus that we could use a bruiser that can score. So could the whole league. Demand is high for that type of player, and I'd probably pick someone else besides Bertuzzi if I could - mainly due to the health issues. But beggars can't be choosers. I'm for giving the guy a second chance like we have in the past with other Detroit pickups, and I think the ingredients are there to make it work. Being traded to Florida has got to have been like purgatory for Bertuzzi - if he's truly got the desire to win, being traded to a contender will surely reinvigorate him. I think we're on the same page now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asia13 0 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 As much baggage Bertuzzi may bring, it wouldn't be a complete utter mess if we acquired him. I'm leaning on the fence on this one. The fact is we have to look at the potential teams we may be playing in the playoffs. If the playoffs started today, it would be San Jose. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that San Jose is a much tougher team than we are, if Bertuzzi is the only available winger for us right now, why don't we take a chance on it? I can almost guarantee you that guys like Scott Hannan and Kyle McLaren will be all over Datsyuk and Zetterberg in the playoffs, thus continuing the playoff drought. If we acquire a guy like Bertuzzi and play him on the wing with Datsyuk and Zetterberg, that just might twinker with whether there may be success or failure in the playoffs (I'm not guarateeing success). Don't get me wrong, I totally rather have a guy like Doan and maybe even Roberts but if Bertuzzi is knocking on the doorstep and the other 2 aren't, shouldn't we at least give Bertuzzi a cup of coffee before he leaves or even potentially stay (yes i know..horrible metaphor ). Also I completly agree with what betterREDthandead stated, he may just need only one chance, if he blows it than.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingslogo19 281 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 Ditto. I'm in favor of getting Bertuzzi, if it happens, not because I don't mind him smacking someone upside the head with the business end of the stick, but because I don't think he will. If he does, screw him - thanks for tarnishing the Wings' image, and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. But if he's healthy and brings his train-wreck style of play to the playoffs for us, it can only help. I think it's about 100% consensus that we could use a bruiser that can score. So could the whole league. Demand is high for that type of player, and I'd probably pick someone else besides Bertuzzi if I could - mainly due to the health issues. But beggars can't be choosers. I'm for giving the guy a second chance like we have in the past with other Detroit pickups, and I think the ingredients are there to make it work. Being traded to Florida has got to have been like purgatory for Bertuzzi - if he's truly got the desire to win, being traded to a contender will surely reinvigorate him. I don't think you could of said that any better Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 Bert & Roberts would help us out , if we really want the cup this year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingslogo19 281 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 Bert & Roberts would help us out , if we really want the cup this year be hard to get both of them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteCloud 0 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 Truly, there are other power forwards, gritty players, enforcers who are not convicted criminals. Wings don't have to have Bert the thug to add toughness. And the fact remains any one of them has probably been a bit overaggressive and could have caused a freak injury like Bertuzzi did. Hell I see constant posts about getting Doan and then last night watched him slew foot Holmstrom after a whistle. That play could have resulted in a career ending injury too. All Holmstrom has to do is fall the right way. Very cheap play but it did not result in an injury. Bertuzzi's play on Moore was very cheap too, and like it or not something that has happened in the NHL forever, but it resulted in a FREAK injury. If would bet 99 times out of 100 that play does not result in a serious injury. It's unfortunate that it happened but like I said it could happen with almost anyone who plays that style of game. I say as long as we don't pay too much and are confident that he will be able to play get him. I am sick and tired of watching Wings players get run at and cheap shotted (especially the constant slashes to the wrists of Zetts and Datsyuk) with no repercussions from the team. That crap will kill the Wings in the playoffs if they don't get someone who will stand up for them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 be hard to get both of them Well , most stations are reporting a decent pick could get Roberts , and Bert would probably be a prospect + a low pick , sounds good to me , if it could go down that way .. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingslogo19 281 Report post Posted February 8, 2007 Well , most stations are reporting a decent pick could get Roberts , and Bert would probably be a prospect + a low pick , sounds good to me , if it could go down that way .. Well i know about the bert situation but if that's all it takes to get Roberts, i would take that in a heartbeat.. We would be a tough team to beat come playoffs with both of them healthy in our lineup Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest LivingtheDream Report post Posted February 8, 2007 What is it with this, "I don't hold his past against him" cliched line over and over. I mean what the hell else do you hold against someone EXCEPT their past? His past, and it is recent enough, is he is a nasty borderline criminal cheap shot artist and his lack of judgement and restraint nearly paralyzed another player. If you want to not hold someone's past against them, then they need to have made some effort to redeem themselves. How has TB redeemed himself? Time alone cannot redeem something dishonorable. Fessing up to being wrong is usually the first step in being a real man about things. Compare TB to Hatcher. Hatcher is one mean, nasty, dirty and tough SOB and you absolutely hate him on the other team, but he does not cross the line. TB can go to hell and I do not want him on our team, even if it means a Cup. Hell, it won't get us one any way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
