Big Brawl in Buffalo (vs Ottawa)

[Guest micah]

Those 3 minutes were more exciting than every minute of Wings hockey this year. I think that stuff like this SHOULD happen once in a while, it's good for the game, the fans love it, nobody really gets hurt, all good fun. I have a problem with any player who is unwilling to fight - not everyone has to be fighter, but I expect every single guy on my team to have my back and they should expect the same of me. Props to Biron, emery is one tough kid, I'm sure Hasek wouldn't have had the balls to challenge him.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

The hit was far from clean. If that had been a Wings player, no one here would be saying it was a clean hit.

It was late. And he threw his shoulder up to catch Drury in the face.

Basically he wanted to check Drury and didn't have him lined up well. When you go to hit a guy and don't have him lined up properly, at some point you have to pull up and not make the hit. You don't throw out a knee, or an elbow, or a shoulder.

Barry Freaking Melrose, who of course loved the ensuing melee even said it was a late hit and should've been a minor penalty.

And as for Murray's response, in a tight game you shouldn't have to make your line decisions based on the other teams goon tactics. You can't coach out out of fear.

I like a good fight now and then, but when it comes down to it, I'd rather watch guys like Heatley on the ice actually playing hockey than see a bunch of goons trolling for a fight.

Edited February 23, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[toby91_ca 620]

There shouldn't be any discussion when an enforcer blind sides a star player with a shoulder to the head?

The players involved should not be considered when determining whether a hit is clean or not.

Also, Neil is not an enforcer. I would be willing to be that most enforcers are not playing around 14 minutes a night.

[GuloGulo 0]

Those 3 minutes were more exciting than every minute of Wings hockey this year. I think that stuff like this SHOULD happen once in a while, it's good for the game, the fans love it, nobody really gets hurt, all good fun. I have a problem with any player who is unwilling to fight - not everyone has to be fighter, but I expect every single guy on my team to have my back and they should expect the same of me. Props to Biron, emery is one tough kid, I'm sure Hasek wouldn't have had the balls to challenge him.

Hasek being the starter, 42 years old, fragile like a twig and FORTY ******* POUNDS LIGHTER THAN EMERY might have something to do with it?

Otherwise, I agree with your post.

[toby91_ca 620]

The hit was far from clean. If that had been a Wings player, no one here would be saying it was a clean hit.

It was late. And he threw his shoulder up to catch Drury in the face.

Basically he wanted to check Drury and didn't have him lined up well. When you go to hit a guy and don't have him lined up properly, at some point you have to pull up and not make the hit. You don't throw out a knee, or an elbow, or a shoulder.

Barry Freaking Melrose, who of course loved the ensuing melee even said it was a late hit and should've been a minor penalty.

And as for Murray's response, in a tight game you shouldn't have to make your line decisions based on the other teams goon tactics. You can't coach out out of fear.

I like a good fight now and then, but when it comes down to it, I'd rather watch guys like Heatley on the ice actually playing hockey than see a bunch of goons trolling for a fight.

I would be willing to bet the majority of referees out there would not have called a penalty on that hit and the ones in this game didn't either.

If the rule is that you can't hit a guy if he no longer has the puck, fine, but that's not the rule. I have seen far more hits that came much later than that, which were also judged non-penalties.

If you ask me, if the results were different (i.e. Drury gets knocked down and gets right back up) no one would be talking about it.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I would be willing to bet the majority of referees out there would not have called a penalty on that hit and the ones in this game didn't either.

If the rule is that you can't hit a guy if he no longer has the puck, fine, but that's not the rule. I have seen far more hits that came much later than that, which were also judged non-penalties.

If you ask me, if the results were different (i.e. Drury gets knocked down and gets right back up) no one would be talking about it.

The refs in the Wings game didn't call a penalty on the Drake hit on Lebda either, then he got a two game suspension.

To me the hit was late, but you're right that it wasn't egregiously so.

But what makes it clearly worthy of a penalty is the lateness combined with the blow to the head. Like I said, it's one of those instances where a player is trying to throw a hit and is gonna miss, so he throws a shoulder or an elbow or a knee out, or hits a guy from behind. That's a penalty.

[Airborn 0]

The players involved should not be considered when determining whether a hit is clean or not.

Also, Neil is not an enforcer. I would be willing to be that most enforcers are not playing around 14 minutes a night.

McCarty played 14 minutes a games; was he not an enforcer? Either way, whatever you want to call Neil (enforcer, grinder, whatever) my point is the same.

Teams (and the league) have a lot invested in their star players, so it absolutely makes a difference on which players are involved.

[sergei_is_still_a_wing 1]

your right toby he didn't take three strides. at first glance it looked a lot later than it was. but it was still late IMO. and i refuse to believe otherwise. it was a bit dirty and it got a dirty response.

all in the name of good hockey. thats why its the best sport in the world. cus we they can settle it on the rink and not on tv like TO or some other ass clown.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

McCarty played 14 minutes a games; was he not an enforcer? Either way, whatever you want to call Neil (enforcer, grinder, whatever) my point is the same.

Teams (and the league) have a lot invested in their star players, so it absolutely makes a difference on which players are involved.

I guess we can put all the star players in a different color jersey and they aren't allowed to be hit. Or maybe players can get assigned certain numbers so you can only hit guys in your group. Like maybe Raffi Torres can only hit guys like Dallas Drake and maybe Pavel Datsyuk can only hit guys like Milan Hejduk.

Yeah, star players should be exempt from hits by those evil enforcers.

The refs in the Wings game didn't call a penalty on the Drake hit on Lebda either, then he got a two game suspension.

To me the hit was late, but you're right that it wasn't egregiously so.

But what makes it clearly worthy of a penalty is the lateness combined with the blow to the head. Like I said, it's one of those instances where a player is trying to throw a hit and is gonna miss, so he throws a shoulder or an elbow or a knee out, or hits a guy from behind. That's a penalty.

I dunno Harold. You know how hard it is to hit somebody. Guys miss hits all the time and plaster themselves into the boards. It isn't so simple within a split second to pull out of a hit. I don't know if Neil had the wrong angle or if he took the angle intentionally. All I know is that when you skate with your head down and a big guy plows into you you are likely to take a shoulder to the mush. If somebody wants to create a rule like in football where you can't hit QB's in the head then fine. But its not illegal to throw the hit Neil threw.

As for the lateness, I gotta disagree completely. If anything the debate ought to be about headhunting or high hits but this hit was less than a second after the puck was released. That's not a late hit. Toby brought up a good reference with the Stevens hit on Kariya, that was probably twice as long after he let go of the puck and wasn't a late hit. This was less than a full second after he released the puck, can't be a late hit.

[Airborn 0]

I guess we can put all the star players in a different color jersey and they aren't allowed to be hit. Or maybe players can get assigned certain numbers so you can only hit guys in your group. Like maybe Raffi Torres can only hit guys like Dallas Drake and maybe Pavel Datsyuk can only hit guys like Milan Hejduk.

Way to take what I said completely out of context!

For the record, I have no problem with clean hits, whoever they're on. Put in more simple terms; hitting is fine. Let me know if that doesn't make sense to you.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I dunno Harold. You know how hard it is to hit somebody. Guys miss hits all the time and plaster themselves into the boards. It isn't so simple within a split second to pull out of a hit. I don't know if Neil had the wrong angle or if he took the angle intentionally. All I know is that when you skate with your head down and a big guy plows into you you are likely to take a shoulder to the mush. If somebody wants to create a rule like in football where you can't hit QB's in the head then fine. But its not illegal to throw the hit Neil threw.

As for the lateness, I gotta disagree completely. If anything the debate ought to be about headhunting or high hits but this hit was less than a second after the puck was released. That's not a late hit. Toby brought up a good reference with the Stevens hit on Kariya, that was probably twice as long after he let go of the puck and wasn't a late hit. This was less than a full second after he released the puck, can't be a late hit.

That's exactly my point. Guys miss all the time. And Neil was gonna miss, until he threw the shoulder up to catch Drury in the face. That's a penalty.

Guys at this level know very well that when you line someone up and miss, you don't throw out an elbow or a knee or a shoulder to try and catch a piece of them (especially their head), because you could seriously injure that player or yourself.

If you look at the replay, it's not llike Drury is still bent over admiring his shot. He's not looking for an incoming hit, but he's standing almost straight up. It took an extra effort to make contact with Drury's head.

I found a realtime replay on ESPN, and honestly, you may right about the late hit. It was pushing the lateness a bit, but maybe not a penalty in and of itself. Had it been a solid check to the body, it likely would've been a highlight hit of the night.

But the biggest reason it was a penalty to me was the intentional shoulder to the face when Neil was otherwise gonna miss Drury. Neil just didn't line him up right. He was too far in front of Drury, so he threw his shoulder and elbow up high to catch him.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Great game! Peters and Emery fighting was pretty cool.

Edited February 23, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

That's exactly my point. Guys miss all the time. And Neil was gonna miss, until he threw the shoulder up to catch Drury in the face. That's a penalty.

Guys at this level know very well that when you line someone up and miss, you don't throw out an elbow or a knee or a shoulder to try and catch a piece of them (especially their head), because you could seriously injure that player or yourself.

If you look at the replay, it's not llike Drury is still bent over admiring his shot. He's not looking for an incoming hit, but he's standing almost straight up. It took an extra effort to make contact with Drury's head.

I found a realtime replay on ESPN, and honestly, you may right about the late hit. It was pushing the lateness a bit, but maybe not a penalty in and of itself. Had it been a solid check to the body, it likely would've been a highlight hit of the night.

But the biggest reason it was a penalty to me was the intentional shoulder to the face when Neil was otherwise gonna miss Drury. Neil just didn't line him up right. He was too far in front of Drury, so he threw his shoulder and elbow up high to catch him.

I got ya. That's why earlier I said I just wasn't sure about it because I can't say for sure if Neil was deliberately going for that. I don't know if he was thinking to himself that he was gonna miss so I'll just angle my shoulder into his face. For me, when I go to hit somebody I just try to put my shoulder into them as hard as I can and sometimes you can't help what part of them you get. Had Drury been 6-2 instead of 5-9 or whatever, Neil hits him in the chest. There's alot of variables as to why Drury got injured this bad in this particular instance. I've watched alot of the Sens and Neil, they were my favorite EC team for years. I don't think Neil's a really dirty player. He plays real tough and he finishes his hits on everybody. Personally I love his play so maybe i'm biased a bit. I'm just not one to say 100% for certain that he intended to injure Drury by laying a shoulder to his face. It's a fair debate no matter which side of the fence you are on. For me, i'm giving Neil the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't intentionally trying to hurt Drury. Of course I can't prove it one way or the other.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Ray emery is a f**king *****. I hope that someone plows his crease with their stick around his neck. I wouldn't think twice of doing it.

Shouldn't you be burning a cross somewhere?

[wingfan4ever 0]

sigh, what hockey used to be.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Ray emery is a f**king *****. I hope that someone plows his crease with their stick around his neck. I wouldn't think twice of doing it.

I don't know why but I hate the senators more than any other team.

Its sad when folks repress what they truly are.

Dude, don't be ashamed, flaunt that s***! Rise up and be proud my man. We won't think any less of you. Just the opposite in fact. Be free and let go of the hate. *** or straight we're all friends here. Its okay man, come on out.

....come on out buddy. It's going to be fine.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I got ya. That's why earlier I said I just wasn't sure about it because I can't say for sure if Neil was deliberately going for that. I don't know if he was thinking to himself that he was gonna miss so I'll just angle my shoulder into his face. For me, when I go to hit somebody I just try to put my shoulder into them as hard as I can and sometimes you can't help what part of them you get. Had Drury been 6-2 instead of 5-9 or whatever, Neil hits him in the chest. There's alot of variables as to why Drury got injured this bad in this particular instance. I've watched alot of the Sens and Neil, they were my favorite EC team for years. I don't think Neil's a really dirty player. He plays real tough and he finishes his hits on everybody. Personally I love his play so maybe i'm biased a bit. I'm just not one to say 100% for certain that he intended to injure Drury by laying a shoulder to his face. It's a fair debate no matter which side of the fence you are on. For me, i'm giving Neil the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't intentionally trying to hurt Drury. Of course I can't prove it one way or the other.

I don't think he set out to throw a dirty hit or injure Drury. I think it's just one of those last second moves that turns a clean hit into a penalty.

When you throw as many hits as Neil does, some are bound to go bad. I think the key is just overall in your career making the right decisions and respecting the guys so you don't end up with a reputation like Tucker or..

god i'm totally blanking on the name of the guy who was one of the worst knee on knee offenders ever!

Anyway, I don't think he intended to injure. But I don't think that's necessary for it to be a penalty either.

[toby91_ca 620]

god i'm totally blanking on the name of the guy who was one of the worst knee on knee offenders ever!

Could you be referring to the assistant coach down in Phoenix? Ulfie?

[moocat 1]

I'd like to remind everyone that even though Murry didn't have last change he did still have his time out and could have gotten his players off the ice.

Especially since they had to do the draw twice.

[moocat 1]

Edit: Double post

Edited February 23, 2007 by moocat

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Could you be referring to the assistant coach down in Phoenix? Ulfie?

Yes! thank you.

Ulf Knee-on-Knee Samuelson

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I don't think he set out to throw a dirty hit or injure Drury. I think it's just one of those last second moves that turns a clean hit into a penalty.

When you throw as many hits as Neil does, some are bound to go bad. I think the key is just overall in your career making the right decisions and respecting the guys so you don't end up with a reputation like Tucker or..

god i'm totally blanking on the name of the guy who was one of the worst knee on knee offenders ever!

Anyway, I don't think he intended to injure. But I don't think that's necessary for it to be a penalty either.

Ahhh, Ulfie. Yeah, I thought you were talking about Bryan Marchment. But yeah, Ulf had a bad rep too. He was the one that basically ended Neely's career I think.

I saw a fight once where the commentator was describing how Marchment is the only guy in the league who actually want s to hurt people and the only guy in the league who can actually hurt you even when he's carrying the puck. They showed a clip of Marchment carrying the puck up the ice and Jamal Mayers goes to hit him and Marchment sees him, jumps about 4 inches into the air and delivers and elbow to the side of Mayers head that nearly concusses him. Marchment was a puke of the highest order.

Back to Ulfie, there was a really good Hockey News article on him once. I believe it was titled "The Ulfimate Warrior".

I think it was released when he was a Wing. Anyway, if I can find it it was a pretty good read.

[tazzer82 0]

Dirty hit by Neil. It should have been a minor penalty, and as much as I hate Melrose, I agreed with what he said last night. Murray should have known that something was going to be done in response, and taken his skill players off the ice. Sure, Ruff could have thrown out Peters and Mair later on too, but you can't take out a star player and not expect some kind of answer for it. Buffalo did the right thing by sticking up for Drury. They could have tried to injure one of the Ottawa players, but didn't. Mair had ahold of Spezza, and both Comrie and Volchenkov skated over and got involved in that. They both could have gotten penalties for being a 3rd man in, even though it wasn't really a fight. If you're already tied up with one guy, you don't expect 2 other players to come over and try to jump you.

I loved seeing that brawl as a hockey fan, and should be interesting to see if anything happens tomorrow night. Hopefully no one will get injured during the game though.

[Zetter is Better 0]

Not a chance, Cloutier would beat his ass in a heartbeat. and if he was still in the league I would have to say Felix Potvin would beat Emery in a fight aswell. He didn't even make Biron bleed, and Biron has never fought ever that I know of.

You do know Emery has way more fight experiance than both those guys. He is also a boxer and he boxed Birons ears off.

[superstarsingh 23]

You do know Emery has way more fight experiance than both those guys. He is also a boxer and he boxed Birons ears off.

Indeed. Emery is known to fight and such and he is going to be a great goalie. I love this guy. He is not afraid of anything.