Yzerman's All Time Ranking

[jagr68 0]

Everybody is going to have their own list, and most of the same guys will appear in the top 10, but in different orders of where Yzerman belongs...so I guess here's my list..with the exception of Howe and Orr, I didn't put any older players because I never saw them play, but Howe was a step above most of them, so even though I never saw him play, he deserves to be up there...but guys like Hull, Bossy, Richard, etc., just not old enough to have actually seem them play, and highlight reels don't show how they played every game, and what they do on the ice when they are not scoring goals.

1) Crosby..

Just kidding, not yet atleast....

1) Lemieux (The skill he lost when he first retired is more than Wayne ever had...)

2) Orr

Here, it's tough for me...to me these three all could make good arguements for 3...

3) Gretzky

4) Yzerman

5) Howe (that's tough because I never actually saw him play, just highlights)

6) Messier

7) Jagr

8) Lidstrom

9) Brett Hull

And 10, I don't even know. So many great players have played in the last 30 years you can make a case for. Sakic, Bourque, Leetch, Bure, Selanne, Forsberg. You can go on and on.

The thing about Yzerman, is he was shadowed in his career when he put up his best numbers. His best years, Lemieux and Gretzky were also having even better years. Finally when Wayne left Edmonton and his all-star cast of teammates, his numbers went down and were very comparable to Yzermans. Lemieux's were just unreal considering the team he had and when he finally had a team he got cancer.

Yzerman gave up his dominant offensive game, to be more of a two way player. Which in turn, he led the team to three Cups. Makes you wonder what stats he could have had, if he chose to simply be a offensive player only.

[wingslogo19 281]

1. Gordie Howe

2. Maurice Richard

3. Bobby Orr

4. Steve Yzerman

5. Wayne Gretzky

How is the GREAT ONE 5th??

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

How is the GREAT ONE 5th??

1. It's a Red Wings message board with Red Wings bias (#1 & #4 on that list).

2. Gretzky was a figure skater in disguise as a hockey player with awesome offensive abilities.

[SweWings 45]

1. It's a Red Wings message board with Red Wings bias (#1 & #4 on that list).

2. Gretzky was a figure skater in disguise as a hockey player with awesome offensive abilities.

For some reason - purely irrational - I think Gretzky's a ******. Same thing with Messier. I can't explain why. Gretzky's probably cuz my best friend is a huge Leafs and Gilmore fan. Messier I dunno. Maybe cuz he's ugly...

[BeeRYCE 2]

Fun fact: Lemieux had a higher career point per game average than Gretzky before he came out of retirement. Probably before 03/04 for that matter. Lemieux could easily be recognized as the best skilled player of all time.

Edited July 19, 2007 by BeeRYCE

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

How is the GREAT ONE 5th??

Gretzky wasn't big, he wasn't particularly fast, he didn't have an exceptional shot, yet he absolutely dominated the game. He's one of those rare players that just sees and understands the game better than everyone else on the ice.

I hated the guy when he played, but there's no way he should be any lower than #2.

[SweWings 45]

Fun fact: Lemieux had a higher career point per game average than Gretzky before he came out of retirement. Probably before 03/04 for that matter. Lemieux could easily be recognized as the best skilled player of all time.

I can live with that!

[#19=Legend 29]

I dont care if this sounds bias. But if we're going by numbers then hands down no one can touch Gretzky. But as in an all around player I put Mr. Steve Yzerman number 1 on my list. Wayne's scoring ability is second to none. But what Yzerman could do defensively was unmatched. Super Mario is also up there with Stevie. But Yzerman could do anything. Scoring goals, perfect passing, a God at faceoffs, extremely defensively sound, and arguably the greatest leader in sports history. Not to mention a Conn Smythe winner and a 3 time Stanley Cup Champion. If there was a fantasy draft and I could pick any player all-time, Yzerman would be my number 1 pick.

[jagr68 0]

Yeah, that is right.

Before he retired, Mario had the highest Point per game average, higher than Wayne. In fact, Mario was the only player to ever average over 2 points per game.

Reminds me of a reporter asking Mario when he decided to come back and play after he retired, that if he comes back and doesn't play at the same level as he did in his prime, he'd risk not averaging over 2pts a game and losing the record as the highest PPG ave.. Mario knew that, and said to that reporter that people already have their minds made up of where he is amoung the greats. And he is right.

No matter what Mario did, how bad of a team he used to have around him, injuries he battled, and the ridiculous numbers he put up, most people will always look at Wayne as better. So what difference would it make if he came out of retirement and didn't average 2pts a game. If he would of averaged 2pts a game, people would still look at Wayne as the best, so who cares. Wayne played 572 more games then Mario but only has 204 goals then him. You can say Wayne is the most accomplished player, but the best and most talented, no.

Gretzky's records could be challenged, but it would have to be a player who stays injury free their whole career. Todays game is much different. Sid already has two 100pt seasons under his belt, and if he only gets better, you can imagine he might hit the 140, 150, and maybe even 160pt mark a few times in his career. If so, and he plays 20 years and towards the end his numbers should drop, and they will, but all the years of collecting 120 or so more points a year, you just might see Sid with 2,000 career points. But he'll have to be on a decent team and most importantly, injury free.

It's all in perspective. I think if Sid scores 2,000 points in his career, how the game has changed, to me, is more impressive than Wayne collecting 2800 or 2900 or whatever he has when you look at the NHL back then and the high scoring. Much like, Mario scoring 199 points in his best year on a horrible team, to me, is more impressive than Wayne scoring 215 on a Stanely Cup Champion team like Edmonton. It's not just stats, you have to look at the whole picture.

[Tane 17]

Orr

Gretzky

Lemieux

Howe

Richard

Messier

Esposito

Lafleur

Beliveau

Bobby Hull

Doug Harvey

Paul Coffey

Steve Yzerman

Marcel Dionne

Ray Bourque

If you include Goalies, I'd Have Sawchuck, Roy, Hasek,Dryden and Possibly Brodeur ahead of him.

Guys like Hull, Beliveau, Lafleur and Esposito Dominated their Era....Coffey, when he played was the third Best D-Man of all time (you could argue that Bourque Surpassed him since) He won Cups with Edmonton and Pittsburgh, and was a half of a year away from winning with Detroit. Doug Harvey Owned the norris for what? 6 years? Best D-man from the Original six. Steve Yzerman dind't have the Historical Impact that those guys had.

So, as Great as a player as he was, He Never won any IMportant Awards, Other than the Pearson, and You could argue the Conn Smythe, But if you look at the List of Conn Smythe Winners, it doesn't Compare with the List of Art Ross or Hart Winners. He Never won a scoring title and never won an MVP award.

Steve Yzerman is my All time Favorite player. To me he is number one, and I'd have to be forced to pick a number 2. He's Just My Guy, Period. But Objectively his Trophy Case Does Not compare to those other guys, and His Historical Impact on the game does not compare the Other guys.

SO, I guess I have him 12th...and That Clearly doens't include anybody that played before 1940. If you include Goalies, I have him Ranked 16/17th.

For the Peopel that have him Ranked 3rd or 4th.... What???

You cannot intelligently and Objectively Argue that Yzerman Ranks ahead a list Of Howe, Gretzky, Richard, Orr And Lemieux. If anybody has hime ranked higher than 5th, you're a homer, you are a REd wings fan, but Not a Hockey Fan. If you have him Ranked Above Bobby Hull, Guy Lafleur, Jean Beliveau And Phil Esposito, you Just didn't realize that Hockey went on During the 50's/60's

If you have him Ranked above Messier, you're Ignoring 2 Hart Trophy's 3 more Cups than Steivie, he's got a Pearson, he's got a Conn Smythe, he was seen at about the same level as stevie as far as leadership goes, some say Mess was better, some say Stevie was better, but no one would argue against them being in the same class.

Paul Coffey, A case could be made either way to have him there. 48 Goals as a Defenceman is just impressive

[HomeNugget 2]

Howe

Orr

Gretzky

Lemieux

Harvey

Shore

Yzerman

Beliveau

Fetisov

Richard

i feel this is a pretty solid list

[SweWings 45]

So, as Great as a player as he was, He Never won any IMportant Awards, Other than the Pearson, and You could argue the Conn Smythe, But if you look at the List of Conn Smythe Winners, it doesn't Compare with the List of Art Ross or Hart Winners. He Never won a scoring title and never won an MVP award.

As quoted right from NHL.com: "The Conn Smythe Trophy is an annual award given to the most valuable player for his team in the playoffs." EDIT: Oh and I do realize that you mean the Hart Trophy but I felt like being a smart ass.

Besides that you put forth a good argument but there's no point in attempting to be brutally logical towards fans who WILL place Yzerman above God if they can.

Edited July 19, 2007 by SweWings

[BeeRYCE 2]

Yzerman never won an MVP award because of the fact that Lemieux and Gretzky were winning them all during his time. You can't use that against him. During his time, mid 80's to early 90's... He was the 3rd best player, right behind Gretzky and Lemieux.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Orr

Gretzky

Lemieux

Howe

Richard

Messier

Esposito

Lafleur

Beliveau

Bobby Hull

Doug Harvey

Paul Coffey

Steve Yzerman

Marcel Dionne

Ray Bourque

If you include Goalies, I'd Have Sawchuck, Roy, Hasek,Dryden and Possibly Brodeur ahead of him.

Guys like Hull, Beliveau, Lafleur and Esposito Dominated their Era....Coffey, when he played was the third Best D-Man of all time (you could argue that Bourque Surpassed him since) He won Cups with Edmonton and Pittsburgh, and was a half of a year away from winning with Detroit. Doug Harvey Owned the norris for what? 6 years? Best D-man from the Original six. Steve Yzerman dind't have the Historical Impact that those guys had.

So, as Great as a player as he was, He Never won any IMportant Awards, Other than the Pearson, and You could argue the Conn Smythe, But if you look at the List of Conn Smythe Winners, it doesn't Compare with the List of Art Ross or Hart Winners. He Never won a scoring title and never won an MVP award.

Steve Yzerman is my All time Favorite player. To me he is number one, and I'd have to be forced to pick a number 2. He's Just My Guy, Period. But Objectively his Trophy Case Does Not compare to those other guys, and His Historical Impact on the game does not compare the Other guys.

SO, I guess I have him 12th...and That Clearly doens't include anybody that played before 1940. If you include Goalies, I have him Ranked 16/17th.

For the Peopel that have him Ranked 3rd or 4th.... What???

You cannot intelligently and Objectively Argue that Yzerman Ranks ahead a list Of Howe, Gretzky, Richard, Orr And Lemieux. If anybody has hime ranked higher than 5th, you're a homer, you are a REd wings fan, but Not a Hockey Fan. If you have him Ranked Above Bobby Hull, Guy Lafleur, Jean Beliveau And Phil Esposito, you Just didn't realize that Hockey went on During the 50's/60's

If you have him Ranked above Messier, you're Ignoring 2 Hart Trophy's 3 more Cups than Steivie, he's got a Pearson, he's got a Conn Smythe, he was seen at about the same level as stevie as far as leadership goes, some say Mess was better, some say Stevie was better, but no one would argue against them being in the same class.

Paul Coffey, A case could be made either way to have him there. 48 Goals as a Defenceman is just impressive

What?? So just because you dont think the Golden Jet was as good as Yzerman, you didnt realize hockey went on during the 50s and 60s?? Please. Stuff your face with that condescending attitude and shut the hell up. First of all, Lidstrom is a better Dman than Coffey, and Lidstrom would never be ranked ahead of Yzerman. Coffey may have had over 1500 points, but he didnt do that while shutting down forwards night in and night out. If he had done that, he wouldve been more impressive, but Coffey was far from an all around player, let alone an all around defenseman. As for Messier, you can talk all you want about Cups. Anybody wouldve won a cup on the teams that Messier played with, and he only ever won a cup on teams comparable to the Red Wings teams that won cups twice. As for leadership, that could be argued til you are blue in the face, but I dont know how a guy WHO DEMANDS THAT ANOTHER TEAM UNRETIRE A JERSEY NUMBER JUST SO HE COULD WEAR IT or BLEW THE RANGERS OFF FOR A BIGGER CONTRACT FROM THE CANUCKS is a better leader than Stevie.

There are only 4 guys that are definitively ahead of Yzmerman - Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux. Anyone else you could make a case for, but only if you are aware of just how good a defensive forward Yzerman was. He probably had the best high-end balance of dominating both ends of the ice. However, as noted with Coffey, defensive prowess never gets as much attention as offensive prowess does. Which is too bad, because they are equally important.

And one more thing that drives me crazy is that Its so typical of people to talk about how much better things were "back in the day", when in fact, they were in most cases just different. Hockey was completely different back in the day. A kid like Crosby recieves criticism because he cant dominate both ends of the ice. Back in the day, it wasnt a "flaw" if you werent defensively concious. Nowadays, goal scorers have to incorporate that into their game. You wanna talk about Shore and Harvey, yet they were dealing with forwards who didnt work out with TR Goodman in the summer, but instead worked in the factory or at the car wash in the off-season. Defenseman and goaltenders alike 20 years ago didnt have to deal with the innovative skill and moves that Russians brought over in the post-cold war era. You wanna bring up cups? How many guys won cups when only 6, 12, 14 teams were vying for it instead of 30? How many players won trophies when they only had to compete with guys from 21 teams instead of 30? The majority of retired hockey players will tell you that its tougher to score, tougher to win, players are stronger, more skilled, the game is better coached, etc, then it was even 25 years ago. Its bulls*** to claim players are ahead on "the list" because they dominated in X era all in the name of objectivity.

Edited July 20, 2007 by YoungGuns1340

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

i have him 3rd.

3rd?? OMFG. I thought I was the world's biggest Wings fan. I tell you what though, there's about 5 or 6 of them that are even bigger fans than me on this forum alone. They're the ones with Stevie ranked in the top 5 or better.

.........oh wait, those people are also crazy, nutjob, homers so........

j/k

c'mon folks 3rd, 4th, hell...even 5th?

take the homer shades off and get serious

Stevie is top 10 no doubt. Without trying to rack my brain for 2 hours over who is better, Lemieux or Orr, or Gretzky or Howe, let's just say I got Stevie in the 7-8 spot.

[Barrie 900]

I'm not even going to try and make a list, but realistically, Yzerman should be no higher than 10th.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Anything below 5th. I love Stevie Y, but I don't feel he is in the top 5. He definitly is in the top 10 though, no doubt. He was a fantastic hockey player.

[sticknmove 0]

"I still don't understand how one would put Yzerman over Gretzky on any list. Sure Yzerman was a leader, defensively sound, etc, etc. But untouchable numbers are hard to contend with. Gretzky is number 1 in every major category with all those numbers being untouchable."

How do I do it? Easy, Yzerman was in Detroit through some of the most brutal years, and red wings teams in our history and not once did he jump ship to join a "potential cup winner" he stayed in detroit and built one on his back here. that is where i give him the edge over messier and gretzky, and with that edge yzerman pulls ahead, in my eyes at least.

whoever said brian trottier is better then yzerman deserves to get kicked in the teeth

[Earthhuman 8]

Yzerman isn't even top 10.

and he is not better than Messier.

Gretzky

Orr

Lemieux

Howe

Messier

Bobby Hull

Richard

Beliveau

Bryan Trottier

Shore

They're all better than Yzerman.

I only read the first page of this topic though.

I was half expecting you to incorporate Havlat in there.

[SweWings 45]

What?? So just because you dont think the Golden Jet was as good as Yzerman, you didnt realize hockey went on during the 50s and 60s?? Please. Stuff your face with that condescending attitude and shut the hell up. First of all, Lidstrom is a better Dman than Coffey, and Lidstrom would never be ranked ahead of Yzerman. Coffey may have had over 1500 points, but he didnt do that while shutting down forwards night in and night out. If he had done that, he wouldve been more impressive, but Coffey was far from an all around player, let alone an all around defenseman. As for Messier, you can talk all you want about Cups. Anybody wouldve won a cup on the teams that Messier played with, and he only ever won a cup on teams comparable to the Red Wings teams that won cups twice. As for leadership, that could be argued til you are blue in the face, but I dont know how a guy WHO DEMANDS THAT ANOTHER TEAM UNRETIRE A JERSEY NUMBER JUST SO HE COULD WEAR IT or BLEW THE RANGERS OFF FOR A BIGGER CONTRACT FROM THE CANUCKS is a better leader than Stevie.

There are only 4 guys that are definitively ahead of Yzmerman - Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux. Anyone else you could make a case for, but only if you are aware of just how good a defensive forward Yzerman was. He probably had the best high-end balance of dominating both ends of the ice. However, as noted with Coffey, defensive prowess never gets as much attention as offensive prowess does. Which is too bad, because they are equally important.

And one more thing that drives me crazy is that Its so typical of people to talk about how much better things were "back in the day", when in fact, they were in most cases just different. Hockey was completely different back in the day. A kid like Crosby recieves criticism because he cant dominate both ends of the ice. Back in the day, it wasnt a "flaw" if you werent defensively concious. Nowadays, goal scorers have to incorporate that into their game. You wanna talk about Shore and Harvey, yet they were dealing with forwards who didnt work out with TR Goodman in the summer, but instead worked in the factory or at the car wash in the off-season. Defenseman and goaltenders alike 20 years ago didnt have to deal with the innovative skill and moves that Russians brought over in the post-cold war era. You wanna bring up cups? How many guys won cups when only 6, 12, 14 teams were vying for it instead of 30? How many players won trophies when they only had to compete with guys from 21 teams instead of 30? The majority of retired hockey players will tell you that its tougher to score, tougher to win, players are stronger, more skilled, the game is better coached, etc, then it was even 25 years ago. Its bulls*** to claim players are ahead on "the list" because they dominated in X era all in the name of objectivity.

Thank you for writing the post echoing the sentiments I have but couldnt be bothered to write .

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

"I still don't understand how one would put Yzerman over Gretzky on any list. Sure Yzerman was a leader, defensively sound, etc, etc. But untouchable numbers are hard to contend with. Gretzky is number 1 in every major category with all those numbers being untouchable."

How do I do it? Easy, Yzerman was in Detroit through some of the most brutal years, and red wings teams in our history and not once did he jump ship to join a "potential cup winner" he stayed in detroit and built one on his back here. that is where i give him the edge over messier and gretzky, and with that edge yzerman pulls ahead, in my eyes at least.

whoever said brian trottier is better then yzerman deserves to get kicked in the teeth

What does loyalty have to do with hockey ability? It's a lovely thing that Stevie stuck with us his entire career and we all love him for it but honestly, it has nothing to do with hockey. Perhaps it has a slim something to do with displaying leadership but in a roundabout way IMO.

So basically you put Stevie way up there because he stuck around with one team. Did the other players you mention jump ship to cup contenders? I think you need to look more closely at that because you're insinuating that Mess and Gretz left because they're current teams were brutal. That isn't the case so you shouldn't be able to use that logic against them and for Yzerman.

Again though, what the heck that has to do with actually be successful at playing the game I have no idea. I don't know if I'd but Trottier (wasn't that Stevie's idol??) ahead of Stevie but I wouldn't kick somebody's teeth in for suggesting it. I might like to kick your teeth in for suggesting Stevie is ahead of Gretzky or even Mess. Thankfully, the lunacy of that makes you look silly enough that there's no need to add injury to insult. okay there homer.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Yzerman isn't even top 10.

and he is not better than Messier.

Gretzky

Orr

Lemieux

Howe

Messier

Bobby Hull (Great player, but his best years were in the 2nd rate WHA. I can't see how he's better than Stevie, seeing as Stevie had a better point per game average, and of course defensive ability)

Richard

Beliveau (Again, Yzerman = More games, higher average, and better defensive ability. Jean Beliveau won 10 cups or whatever in which, he was never even the best on his team)

Bryan Trottier (Yzerman has him beat in all statistical numbers, and Brian Trottier had a better team around him)

Shore (Go ahead, include Bourque, I will not argue, but Shore? Come on)

They're all better than Yzerman.

I only read the first page of this topic though.

There's questions in brackets right beside the name.

You're anti Wings remarks are not welcomed here. There's a certain line between being a homer and being logical. When being logical, it would take tons of explaining to easily include Yzerman in any top 10 list.

Including Yzerman in a top 5 list is homeristic, including him in a top 10 list is logical.

[Guest DetroitIan]

Yzerman isn't even top 10.

Haha! Well, it's official. You clearly know DICK about hockey. No matter which way you slice it, Yzerman deserves to be in the top 10. If ya wanna talk about statistics, Yzerman is 6th ALL TIME, in points. If you wanna talk about character, Yzerman is pure class and a born leader. If you wanna talk about personal awards, Yzerman has SEVERAL throughout his briliiant career(including the Conn Smythe). Or if you wanna talk about a champion. Yzerman has hoisted the Cup 3 times. And captained the same team longer than anyone in the history of the game. Can you please tell me what more the guy had to do to get in the top 10??? I'de say he covers ALL areas of excellence. You're a ******* troll. Im sure the biggest reason he's not in your top 10 is he is a modern-day Red Wing that used to constantly put a stomping on your s***ty, pathetic blackhawks.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Awards shouldn't even be included with Stevie because as I said, he was in an era where Gretzky and Lemieux were winning them all. Unlike them two though, he won something also pretty valuable, SELKE.

[auxlepli 17]

Hmmmm, defintiely top 10. Probably six or seven.

Howe

Gretzky

Orr

Lemieux

Dryden

Richard

Yzerman