Burke whining again.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

It already has. Kevin Lowe is just joining in on the overpaying fiasco. The whole free agency period has been marked by overpaying for players. Lowe isn't doing anything that the rest of the league didn't already do this summer, including Brian Burke.

Andrei Markov, Kimmo Timmonen, Scott Hartnell, Todd Bertuzzi, Thomas Vanek, and Sheldon Souray just to name a few. The point is GM's have to overpay to get players. The market dictates that right now. Tough luck for Burke.

WRONG!!!!! Your assessment couldn't be more wrong. Overpayment for UNRESTRICTED free agents has always been a problem and its partly what helped facilitate the institution of this ******* cap. Now we all have to worry about overpayment for RESTRICTED free agents. Does you remember hearing about this a couple years ago? No, you don't. So far we've had Kesler (way overpaid), Vanek (appears to be overpaid now) and Penner (holy s***, 450K up to 4.2 mil) you can't be freaking serious.

It used to be crazy overpayment of UFA's, now its both UFA's and RFA's so the problem is compounded and not nearly as common as you portray. It's gonna be way worse than it ever was because of this.

[Dabura 12,207]

Squirm, Burke, squirm.

My only regret is that Kenny didn't make the offer.

[Hemmers 0]

ya everyone was expecting it but doesnt make it right ......sure lowe can do anything he wants but theres an unspoken rule about doing that stuff which why you rarely see it , again i wouldnt usually care but i started thinking what if grigorenko has good year next season and he decides to be a punk and go after him or/and filppula ???

i think we would be singing a different tune and we'd be complaining like burke is , if lowe came out next year and say offered grigoreko and filppula 3.5 per for 5 yrs , then we would have some problems ( not saying it will happen , but just something to think about )

And that's the problem, the whole 'unspoken rule' thing. Sorry, but it's a part of the CBA, and quite frankly there is no reason that Burke should be upset that someone chose to take advantage of the rules. It's collaboration, and there's no way that Burke should be angry at anyone but himself.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

What really put Burke into this position is Scott Neidermayer's indecisiveness. You guys are acting as if Burke decided to go on a reckless spending spree. The Schneider and Bertuzzi signings were made to attempt to fill the void for Selanne and Neidermayer possibly retiring. If those guys retire and had Burke not signed them, then he'd be left with a bunch of cap room but with the current s***ty free agent pool to use it on....or should i say, waste it on.

Finally a person who uses actual hockey knoweldge rather than a thesaurus to sound intelligent on this board.

PROPS TO KEVIN LOWE.

DA GANGSTA

[Majsheppard 203]

I wish someone would just put him out of his misery.

What a whiny little grrrrr.....

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

And that's the problem, the whole 'unspoken rule' thing. Sorry, but it's a part of the CBA, and quite frankly there is no reason that Burke should be upset that someone chose to take advantage of the rules. It's collaboration, and there's no way that Burke should be angry at anyone but himself.

Yes, its totally within the rules, we all get that.

However, some of us (unlike yourself it appears) believe that offering to overpay by more than double or triple what a player is worth is not solid general managing.

you see, its sort of like dominos. you knock the first one down and, well..you get it right.

1 grossly overpaid player is all it takes to make all the other players with his numbers fall right into line.

do you feel that 4.2 mil is the new standard for a 45 point player?

do you realize that if that were so, then Robert Lang was a steal last season and that Dan Cleary ought to be making about 4 mil this season?

Does that not sound ridiculous to you?

Yeah, its within the rules. Doesn't mean it's good, sound business.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

WRONG!!!!! Your assessment couldn't be more wrong. Overpayment for UNRESTRICTED free agents has always been a problem and its partly what helped facilitate the institution of this ******* cap. Now we all have to worry about overpayment for RESTRICTED free agents. Does you remember hearing about this a couple years ago? No, you don't. So far we've had Kesler (way overpaid), Vanek (appears to be overpaid now) and Penner (holy s***, 450K up to 4.2 mil) you can't be freaking serious.

It used to be crazy overpayment of UFA's, now its both UFA's and RFA's so the problem is compounded and not nearly as common as you portray. It's gonna be way worse than it ever was because of this.

Well instituting that cap is not working with UFA's either. The contracts for some UFA's this summer are just as absurd as the offer sheets for Vanek and Penner.

Most UFA's don't like the choice of going and playing in Edmonton, so Lowe uses the only option he has to sign players. Overpaying is overpaying, regardless of the free agent's status. It all correlates to the same problems the NHL had before the lockout.

Whether you agree with signing offer sheets isn't the issue here. The problem is Burke's hypocrisy of the Oilers overpaying for Penner, when he did the same with Bertuzzi.

Edited July 28, 2007 by GoWings1905

[Hemmers 0]

Yes, its totally within the rules, we all get that.

However, some of us (unlike yourself it appears) believe that offering to overpay by more than double or triple what a player is worth is not solid general managing.

you see, its sort of like dominos. you knock the first one down and, well..you get it right.

1 grossly overpaid player is all it takes to make all the other players with his numbers fall right into line.

do you feel that 4.2 mil is the new standard for a 45 point player?

do you realize that if that were so, then Robert Lang was a steal last season and that Dan Cleary ought to be making about 4 mil this season?

Does that not sound ridiculous to you?

Yeah, its within the rules. Doesn't mean it's good, sound business.

Yes, because there's no salary cap to ensure that.. oh, wait, I'm sorry, I seem to have overlooked a crucial part of the puzzle.

Now let's play a game where no one in this board is involved in a professional capacity with an NHL team. Let's continue this game by suggesting that maybe the people who are actually in these positions may know more than we do.

Still with me? Let's continue.

Now you look at Dustin Penner, and you see a big, defensively responsible forward with good hands and who has 45 points in their second NHL season (first full NHL season). Hmm, now who does this remind me of? Seems there was a player in Detroit just last season.. can't quite place my finger on it..

Oh yeah, Todd Bertuzzi.

Sorry, but comparing Dan Cleary (as much as I like him) to Dustin Penner is just farcical. Dan Cleary's been in the NHL for how many seasons? How about Penner?

If you honestly think that offering RFAs more than the traditional 'we'll keep you around for a while and figure out what to do when you hit UFA' change is going to drive salaries up, you're entitled to that opinion. I belong to the opposite camp that believes that since GMs are now going to be forced to commit money to RFAs in order to pay them what they're worth, they won't have as much money to blow on UFAs and what will happen isn't salaries spiking, but rather being more evenly distributed. Sorry, but NYR signing Drury and Gomez for as much as they did? That's a far more egregious crime than signing a kid who has the potential to have tremendous upside for 4.3 million.

You think it's a huge overpay, I'd disagree. In two years, if he turns out to be the next Brad Isbister, I'll gladly eat my words. If, however, he turns out to be the next Bertuzzi, I'd expect the same courtesy from you.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Well instituting that cap is not working with UFA's either. The contracts for some UFA's this summer are just as absurd as the offer sheets for Vanek and Penner.

Most UFA's don't like the choice of going and playing in Edmonton, so Lowe uses the only option he has to sign players. Overpaying is overpaying, regardless of the free agent's status. It all correlates to the same problems the NHL had before the lockout.

Whether you agree with signing offer sheets isn't the issue here. The problem is Burke's hypocrisy of the Oilers overpaying for Penner, when he did the same with Bertuzzi.

I'm not going to get into the deals Burke made for UFA's because that's another issue. And you're right, the cap hasn't helped with UFA offers. But that doesn't mean we should heap RFA offers onto that problem should we?

And there is a huge difference between Penner and Bertuzzi, one is an RFA and the other is a UFA. There's a basic princple there that no amount of money can make equal. UFA's have the chance to get as much as possible. RFA's should have to deal with their team and get a fair offer from their team. Instead, we might as well just call them UFA version 2.0's because that's what they are now.

Yes, because there's no salary cap to ensure that.. oh, wait, I'm sorry, I seem to have overlooked a crucial part of the puzzle.

Now let's play a game where no one in this board is involved in a professional capacity with an NHL team. Let's continue this game by suggesting that maybe the people who are actually in these positions may know more than we do.

Still with me? Let's continue.

Now you look at Dustin Penner, and you see a big, defensively responsible forward with good hands and who has 45 points in their second NHL season (first full NHL season). Hmm, now who does this remind me of? Seems there was a player in Detroit just last season.. can't quite place my finger on it..

Oh yeah, Todd Bertuzzi.

Sorry, but comparing Dan Cleary (as much as I like him) to Dustin Penner is just farcical. Dan Cleary's been in the NHL for how many seasons? How about Penner?

If you honestly think that offering RFAs more than the traditional 'we'll keep you around for a while and figure out what to do when you hit UFA' change is going to drive salaries up, you're entitled to that opinion. I belong to the opposite camp that believes that since GMs are now going to be forced to commit money to RFAs in order to pay them what they're worth, they won't have as much money to blow on UFAs and what will happen isn't salaries spiking, but rather being more evenly distributed. Sorry, but NYR signing Drury and Gomez for as much as they did? That's a far more egregious crime than signing a kid who has the potential to have tremendous upside for 4.3 million.

You think it's a huge overpay, I'd disagree. In two years, if he turns out to be the next Brad Isbister, I'll gladly eat my words. If, however, he turns out to be the next Bertuzzi, I'd expect the same courtesy from you.

Okay, so basically you're of the opinion that people should be paid on potential and not accomplishments. Sweet, can I work for you. I work really hard and although my production isn't worth 4.2 million per year will you give it to me because i've got potential?

As for Penner, Cleary. Their production numbers were fairly the same. Cleary is sound defensively (although you seem to impune him by stating that Penner is sound defensively, implying Cleary isn't. And what does Cleary being in the league longer have to do with anything. they produced the same amount. We're not talking about singing somebody for 10 years here and Cleary isn't even 30 yet is he? He's not exactly old.

You think the RFA offer sheet is paying what a player is worth? I laugh at that. If you had to pick a raise for Penner or Vanek for next year not a single GM would offer those numbers nor would any sane individual. Lowe is vastly overpaying because he can afford to and is running out of options. Just because he's willing to overpay doesn't make his offer a true statement of Penner's worth.

Overpaying players for multiple seasons before they've earned it? Overpaying them simply because of potential? Uggghhhh...Whatever, we couldn't disagree more about this.

[Hemmers 0]

I'm not going to get into the deals Burke made for UFA's because that's another issue. And you're right, the cap hasn't helped with UFA offers. But that doesn't mean we should heap RFA offers onto that problem should we?

And there is a huge difference between Penner and Bertuzzi, one is an RFA and the other is a UFA. There's a basic princple there that no amount of money can make equal. UFA's have the chance to get as much as possible. RFA's should have to deal with their team and get a fair offer from their team. Instead, we might as well just call them UFA version 2.0's because that's what they are now.

You've failed to inform me how this is a bad thing, though.

You see it one way, I see it the other.

Let's say that RFAs belong to column B and UFAs to column A. The way it's been for a long time, Column A gets about 80% of a team's resources. Why is that? Because they knew that RFAs were, for all intents and purposes, untouchable. This allowed them to spend the other 80% on various UFA signings, where good players got superstar-like money (for example, the recent signings of Drury and Gomez being still the best examples). RFAs, on the other hand, were usually signed for plugger money, at least short term. Sure, later on they might get a big contract, but as it was teams knew they didn't have to worry about it and could low-ball them, since hey, who else would take 'em?

Now, teams know that their RFAs are no longer safe. Instead of going out every few summers and blowing 15'ish million on a couple of players, they have to manage salaries a lot more. Leave an RFA unsigned, and someone might just take them. As it is, an RFA will sign for what they feel is a fair price, and if you don't offer it to them, prepare to lose that player. The big difference between an RFA and a UFA, of course, is draft picks; despite all your efforts, your team might still suck and you stand the risk of losing out on the next Sidney Crosby or something.

Not to mention you still give the team the opportunity to match. If one team thinks player X is worth 5 million and the other team thinks he's worth 3 million, then it should be up to the player to decide where he goes; not some gentleman's agreement between GMs not to touch these players because they want to lowball players.

Suddenly Column B and Column A are far more even, and talent gets rewarded; rather than just blowing the load on the best available UFAs, giving ridiculous contracts to players who really haven't earned them, you have to worry about your RFAs now, too. I think you'll see RFA contracts spike a little, and then soon both UFAs and RFAs will settle around where they should, not at this ridiculous level they were at the whole summer.

EDIT: And no, I wasn't impugning Cleary's defensive abilities. I just happened to mention that Penner is fairly sound defensively. Plus, yes, comparing how long they're in the NHL is a damn valid fact. You do your best work in a job in your first year? How about five years down the road? Experience makes a huge difference. Regardless, looks like we agree to disagree.

Edited July 28, 2007 by Hemmers

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

You've failed to inform me how this is a bad thing, though.

You see it one way, I see it the other.

Let's say that RFAs belong to column B and UFAs to column A. The way it's been for a long time, Column A gets about 80% of a team's resources. Why is that? Because they knew that RFAs were, for all intents and purposes, untouchable. This allowed them to spend the other 80% on various UFA signings, where good players got superstar-like money (for example, the recent signings of Drury and Gomez being still the best examples). RFAs, on the other hand, were usually signed for plugger money, at least short term. Sure, later on they might get a big contract, but as it was teams knew they didn't have to worry about it and could low-ball them, since hey, who else would take 'em?

Now, teams know that their RFAs are no longer safe. Instead of going out every few summers and blowing 15'ish million on a couple of players, they have to manage salaries a lot more. Leave an RFA unsigned, and someone might just take them. As it is, an RFA will sign for what they feel is a fair price, and if you don't offer it to them, prepare to lose that player. The big difference between an RFA and a UFA, of course, is draft picks; despite all your efforts, your team might still suck and you stand the risk of losing out on the next Sidney Crosby or something.

Not to mention you still give the team the opportunity to match. If one team thinks player X is worth 5 million and the other team thinks he's worth 3 million, then it should be up to the player to decide where he goes; not some gentleman's agreement between GMs not to touch these players because they want to lowball players.

Suddenly Column B and Column A are far more even, and talent gets rewarded; rather than just blowing the load on the best available UFAs, giving ridiculous contracts to players who really haven't earned them, you have to worry about your RFAs now, too. I think you'll see RFA contracts spike a little, and then soon both UFAs and RFAs will settle around where they should, not at this ridiculous level they were at the whole summer.

EDIT: And no, I wasn't impugning Cleary's defensive abilities. I just happened to mention that Penner is fairly sound defensively. Plus, yes, comparing how long they're in the NHL is a damn valid fact. You do your best work in a job in your first year? How about five years down the road? Experience makes a huge difference. Regardless, looks like we agree to disagree.

Okay, so say you're an agent of and RFA player. Why would you tell your player to sign with his current team? Don't say loyalty or anything like that and don't tell me that you'd know what a fair offer is. You're an agent afterall and you want as many offers as possible. How exactly will GM's lock up their RFA's if RFA's are enticed to simply wait it out and see if they get an offer sheet?

Maybe some like Kronner will sign. However, the pragmatist in me thinks most players will wait it out and get the best offer possible. Like I said, not much incentive for them to sign prior to the deadlne. Why not wait and see who the highest bidder is, just like a UFA.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Okay, so what if Kindl turns out to be a star and after a couple seasons he's putting up big numbers for a dman and he's making 500K and someone offers him 4.4 million per season. Are you going to sing the same tune? Burke admitted he understands the idea of utilizing the offer sheet, but face reality, 4.2 mil for a guy who had 45 points last season and was only making 450K? That's ******* absurd and that's what Burke said he thinks is wrong with this. He stated that it wasn't the offer sheet rather the ridiculous overpayment by Lowe.

Burke may be an ass and a whiner, but he proved everybody wrong by building a cup champ in how many years in Anaheim? And IMO, he is right and so is Darcy Regeir when they say the RFA offer sheet will not work and is only bad for the sport. I agree with them both 100%

No, I guarantee you this: Under the Kindl scenario you mention, the entire board would sing the same tune with one voice: WTF IS HOLLAND DOING???? I'd join in too (though I definitely wouldn't mind the extra draft picks). Because let's face it - this is at least partially caused by short-sightedness on Burke's part. He was clearly blindsided by this. And it's not like there weren't signs of this coming - the Oilers already tried to sign Vanek to a huge contract.

And Burke didn't stop complaining when he mentioned the huge raise Penner got. He also whined about Lowe not telling him personally (as if he has a responsibility to) and Lowe spoiling his precious BC HOF day (poor baby).

Finally, Burke didn't really prove anyone wrong by winning a Cup, because few people ever questioned his abilities as a GM. What I do question is why is the league's former Grand Poobah of discipline building teams, first in Vancouver and then in Anaheim, that play dirty and constantly run afoul of the league's rules?

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Burke is such a *****. Seriously. He's whining because Lowe is trying to make his team better? Ummmmmm that's what you are suppose to do! He's just mad because he's probably not going to be able to match it and if he does, he's screwed next offseason. Poor baby.

[puckbags 863]

This place is hillarious...its such a pile of sour grapes it makes me sick..Brian Burke is hands down the best GM in this league and he will get himself out of this pickle and again as much as it pains me to say he will have the Ducks contending again next year. He turned a s***ty team in Vancouver to more than respectable and who knows what else he would've done there if they didn't make the worst gm firing i have ever seen. He turned the Ducks into a cup champ simple as that. Pronger goons one of our guys in the playoffs and all of a sudden the Ducks and Burke have become the worst of the worst.. Suck it up people they beat our ass. Pronger is a f*** get over it!! I got to see Burke interviews day in and day out living on the west coast when he was in Vancouver and believe me I would rather have a GM with some balls who call people out and tell it like it is than most of GM's in this league who are behind the desk ******* zombies. If the situation was the other way around and they were going after one of our RFA"s it would be so different and no one here can deny it. Lowe is well within in the rules but Burke telling him how he feels and laying down the facts about it is what a good GM should do!! He will defend his players until the end and you can't tell me it wouldn't be nice to have a GM who would do that!!

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

This place is hillarious...its such a pile of sour grapes it makes me sick..Brian Burke is hands down the best GM in this league and he will get himself out of this pickle and again as much as it pains me to say he will have the Ducks contending again next year. He turned a s***ty team in Vancouver to more than respectable and who knows what else he would've done there if they didn't make the worst gm firing i have ever seen. He turned the Ducks into a cup champ simple as that. Pronger goons one of our guys in the playoffs and all of a sudden the Ducks and Burke have become the worst of the worst.. Suck it up people they beat our ass. Pronger is a f*** get over it!! I got to see Burke interviews day in and day out living on the west coast when he was in Vancouver and believe me I would rather have a GM with some balls who call people out and tell it like it is than most of GM's in this league who are behind the desk ******* zombies. If the situation was the other way around and they were going after one of our RFA"s it would be so different and no one here can deny it. Lowe is well within in the rules but Burke telling him how he feels and laying down the facts about it is what a good GM should do!! He will defend his players until the end and you can't tell me it wouldn't be nice to have a GM who would do that!!

First off, this has nothing to do with the Ducks beating us so why you brought that up I have no idea. That series is way done and over with and we've all learned to except it. I myself have disliked Burke since he was with the Nucks. He ******* over everything and anything and makes an ass out of himself. It's one thing to defend your team, but it's another to defend them blindly *aka, prongers suspsension twice, the bertuzzi incident, among other things*' The man doesn't know when to shut up. Good for him in making the Ducks a championship team. No one is discrediting of him doing that are we? Didn't think so. Also, to say he made the Nucks a respectable team is pretty laughable. He along with Crawford made them a nasty, disrespectful team that no one could stand. That's not the case now though because they got rid of his nonsense.

Anyways, I don't buy the if it were the Wings we'd be acting differently. I sure as heck wouldn't. That's just the business of the game. If you want your player enough and think he's worth it then you'll match the offer regardless. Why should Burke ***** about another GM wanting one of his players? Lowe wants to make his team better so props to him going out and offering Penner a contract. If Burke hates it so much then he should match the offer or shut the hell up and move on.

Edited July 28, 2007 by HockeyCrazy3033

[Guest DetroitIan]

Overpayment for UNRESTRICTED free agents has always been a problem and its partly what helped facilitate the institution of this ******* cap. Now we all have to worry about overpayment for RESTRICTED free agents. Does you remember hearing about this a couple years ago? No, you don't. So far we've had Kesler (way overpaid), Vanek (appears to be overpaid now) and Penner (holy s***, 450K up to 4.2 mil) you can't be freaking serious.

Dude this falls into the, "cry me a ******* river" catagorie. Yeah it's overpayment. No doubt about that. But this is the rule of the land. Dont hate the player, hate the game. If Lowe sees something in Penner, and wants the guy long term, and is willing to overpay to get him, then more power to him if he pulls it off. Burke can stock up on the tissues all he wants with this one. But it just makes him look like a whiny fool. I cant wait for him to either lose Penner, or overpay to keep him. Great times.

Anyways, I don't buy the if it were the Wings we'd be acting differently. I sure as heck wouldn't. That's just the business of the game. If you want your player enough and think he's worth it then you'll match the offer regardless. Why should Burke ***** about another GM wanting one of his players? Lowe wants to make his team better so props to him going out and offering Penner a contract. If Burke hates it so much then he should match the offer or shut the hell up and move on.

100% agreed. :!:

[akustyk 84]

Burke may be an ass and a whiner, but he proved everybody wrong by building a cup champ in how many years in Anaheim? And IMO, he is right and so is Darcy Regeir when they say the RFA offer sheet will not work and is only bad for the sport. I agree with them both 100%

dare to disagree. he started with a team that already was bold on young talent.

I mean: let's keep similar standards. we're bitching pre-cap Holland for not being the GM who built winning franchise. why should we give credit to Burke whose accomplishments are not even on-par with Holland in this regard.

Burke is being hit in the ass by his own pro-activity. he's much better GM than Lowe and I'd actually give my nod to him rather than Lowe who's being an ******* in this case. still... you can't have the cake and eat it, Brian. and stop whining about this.

as for ppl talking of overpaying for Penner... short reality check: Penner has potential to be quality 1/2-liner and is a young kind with good package and good ethics. if you call it $4.3M a year you lose the big picture. it's roughly $22M for 5 years. and you sure bet in those 5 years Penner will be worth those $4M and who knows if not more. he's ripped 45 points in his first year on a roster full of talent. he may ass well make 70+ points every single year as an Oiler. even so, with Edmonton being so depleted on good names right now. Lowe must pay him more than his market value is to get him to Edmonton, but still... $22M/5yr is not necessarily a big overpayment

and I really don't see a reason for complaining that the asking prices go up. sure, they are. but let me ask you one question, Brian: who is paying those prices? players themselves or GM's? I'd say it's GM's who operate under salary cap limitations and can not spend money like crazy anymore. and this is the factor which will eventually elevate salaries and bring them to some standard realms. it's free market, dude!

Edited July 28, 2007 by akustyk

[yakub 0]

Who would you rather sign for $4 million next year? Penner or Bertuzzi? Burke already made his decision and I know I would much rather have Penner.

[Henkka 0]

The system is what it is right now, and you'll have to live with that.

Just look what Ken Holland and the Wings management are doing. Be patient and make the contracts far before the guys are coming RFA's. That's the right and only way to avoid these offer sheets and that's the winning way to build your team.

The Detroit Red Wings management is the absolutely best example how to live in this new cap world. Having winning team year after year and chance to the Cup. Last year it was really close, but the injuries on defence worn us out.

Nice job Burke, you build good team and won a cup and I aprreciate that. But you didn't look enough long to the future and now you are screwed. There's no reason for whining, the situation is just Burke's fault, not anyone else.

[eva unit zero 271]

He turned a s***ty team in Vancouver to more than respectable and who knows what else he would've done there if they didn't make the worst gm firing i have ever seen. He turned the Ducks into a cup champ simple as that.

Yeah, by acquiring all those key players like Bertuzzi, Naslund, Joavonvski, Ohlund, Aucoin in Vancouver? The player in Vancouver who had the most impact and was acquired by Burke was DAN CLOUTIER.

As for Anaheim...the only key on last year's Ducks team were acquired by Burke; Niedermayer, Pronger, Beauchemin, and Marchant. Niedermayer had already decided to come to Anaheim BEFORE BURKE WAS GM. Acquiring Pronger, Beauchemin, and Marchant meant losing, in trades or due to cap issues, Fedorov, Lupul, Smid, Salei, Carney, and Vishnevski. I think I would rather the second group, wouldn't you?

[Guest nutz2u]

I guess if the norm now is to pay for potential then people need to stop pissing and moaning about Kronwalls contract eh?

[superstarsingh 23]

At the end of the day, Burke has himself to blame. He knew damn well that team had interest in signing Penner yet he did not get him locked up. Game over. I know to do that is a lot easier said than done, but it is not Lowe's fault it is Burke's.

I guess if the norm now is to pay for potential then people need to stop pissing and moaning about Kronwalls contract eh?

I know you're joking...but Penner actually plays a full season

[russianswede919293 95]

I don't think that it is ridiculous what Penner got from the Oilers, it is pretty much on par with the market values of the UFA players this offseason, and I know he is an RFA, but if a team doesn't tie down their own RFAs the longer they wait the more likely this happens.

Penner had 29 goals and 16 assists for 45 points and is a physical presence

Lang had 19 G 33A for 52 points and is NOT a physical presence at all...

Hartnell had 22 G 17 A for 39 points and is physical

They all got 4 million...

The answer is to negotiate with and sign players DURING the season...does anybody think Datsyuk goes for 6.7 million on this market hell no, we got him for a steal, because holland ties his boys down before the market goes haywire...if burke had signed penner earlier it wouldnt have been a problem

[topshelf14 1]

Burke is such a baby! I mean not only does he complain about something that is comepletely in the rulebook to do. But he then says its bad timing because of his induction in the BC Hockey Hall of Fame. Yeah okay let's just wait around a few more days so that someone else can make an offer to Penner. Burke your a whiny little 2 year-old!

[Guest nutz2u]

At the end of the day, Burke has himself to blame. He knew damn well that team had interest in signing Penner yet he did not get him locked up. Game over. I know to do that is a lot easier said than done, but it is not Lowe's fault it is Burke's.

I know you're joking...but Penner actually plays a full season

Well, we know that he can do 1 now don't we.