Best and worst Wings decisions in the last 10 years.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Tomas Fleischmann would be doing what to help us right now?

Probably more then Kopecky is doing.

I'm of course joking on that. I can't say with full confidence that Fleischmann would help this team at all. If he can't crack the Capitals talent depleted lineup...

The reason I didn't like the Lang trade is because we gave up a 1st round pick in the process, whom Washington drafted defenseman Jeff Schultz with. I know Schultz hasn't played many NHL games yet, but I would love to have a player like him on the Wings. He's a 6'6 defenseman, yet skates good and has offensive ability to combine with his size.

Of course, who knows if the Wings would have even picked Schultz. The chances might have been good, though, because he is a defenseman, and we all know the tendancies the Wings have of drafting defenseman in the 1st round.

[Lamothe 5]

Tomas Fleischmann would be doing what to help us right now?

I'm not sure, especially since he's having a hard time keeping a spot in Washington. However, I see much more in Flieshmann than I see in Grigorenko at the moment. Losing a first rounder and Fleishmann wasn't exactly what I was looking for when acquiring Lang.

[therock48880 14]

Where are you getting 7 months? It says the deal was offered in November. He asked for time. By January (we don't know if this is fhe first time after asking for time that he re-entered negotiations, but I'd guess it likely was) it was down to a 4 year deal.

Stevie was making $8.5M at the time. And Fedorov was significantly better at that stage in both of their careers.

Can you give me one other example where the offers from a team keep shrinking?

I don't care what his agent said. Agents live in their own little worlds. After the ink was put on paper anything and everything out of his mouth is designed to appeal to the Ducks and their fans. And when it became clear that the Wings weren't going to sign him anything out of his mouth was designed to appeal to the other teams interested.

10 million per year was on the table for 7-8 months. He ended up signing a 5 year 40 million dollar contract when Detroit had a 4 year 40 million dollar deal for the taking for many months. In other words, he skated an extra year for FREE to get away from Detroit. How is that pushing him out the door? The big contract was hand delivered to him by the OWNER of the team. You think they didn't want him back? I doubt the owner gets involved if they didn't want him back. In terms of reducing the contract, the final contract they offered was still almost identical to what he signed with Ducks (8mill. per year). That's certainly not what I would consider pushing him at the door.

Here's a quote from McCarty after he signed with the Ducks: ""I think he just felt he needed a new start ... get out in L.A., which is more his speed," he said. "It wasn't about money so much, it had to be about (job) security."

http://espn.go.com/nhl/news/2003/0719/1582918.html

He left because he WANTED OUT OF YZERMAN'S SHADOW, not because he was pushed out, unless you consider being offered more money being pushed out.

[up2here 41]

I know this was more than 10 years ago but Oates for Federko(For one season).OUCH!

[norrisnick 1]

10 million per year was on the table for 7-8 months. He ended up signing a 5 year 40 million dollar contract when Detroit had a 4 year 40 million dollar deal for the taking for many months. In other words, he skated an extra year for FREE to get away from Detroit. How is that pushing him out the door? The big contract was hand delivered to him by the OWNER of the team. You think they didn't want him back? I doubt the owner gets involved if they didn't want him back. In terms of reducing the contract, the final contract they offered was still almost identical to what he signed with Ducks (8mill. per year). That's certainly not what I would consider pushing him at the door.

Here's a quote from McCarty after he signed with the Ducks: ""I think he just felt he needed a new start ... get out in L.A., which is more his speed," he said. "It wasn't about money so much, it had to be about (job) security."

http://espn.go.com/nhl/news/2003/0719/1582918.html

He left because he WANTED OUT OF YZERMAN'S SHADOW, not because he was pushed out, unless you consider being offered more money being pushed out.

Exactly! Fedorov wanted a 5 year deal. The deal that Ilitch offered him. His personal life was in the s***ter and he asked for time to sort it out. Rather than giving him time, they pulled the deal and he never saw 5 years again until the Ducks offered it.

5 years at $10M. 4 years at $10M. 4 years at $8M. The deals shrunk because Kenny was nudging him out. I'm not saying Ilitch didn't want him back. He most certainly did. I'm not so sure about Kenny.

[therock48880 14]

Exactly! Fedorov wanted a 5 year deal. The deal that Ilitch offered him. His personal life was in the s***ter and he asked for time to sort it out. Rather than giving him time, they pulled the deal and he never saw 5 years again until the Ducks offered it.

5 years at $10M. 4 years at $10M. 4 years at $8M. The deals shrunk because Kenny was nudging him out. I'm not saying Ilitch didn't want him back. He most certainly did. I'm not so sure about Kenny.

So, he ignored a four year 40 million dollar contract so he could sign a 5 year 40 million dollar contract? Basically playing a year for free so he could get a five year deal? The 4 year, 40 million dollar contract was on the table until two weeks before free agency began.

Lang was pushed out the door, Fedorov was offered THREE very reasonable contract extensions.

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Exactly! Fedorov wanted a 5 year deal. The deal that Ilitch offered him. His personal life was in the s***ter and he asked for time to sort it out. Rather than giving him time, they pulled the deal and he never saw 5 years again until the Ducks offered it.

5 years at $10M. 4 years at $10M. 4 years at $8M. The deals shrunk because Kenny was nudging him out. I'm not saying Ilitch didn't want him back. He most certainly did. I'm not so sure about Kenny.

BTW, the 5 year deal was on the table from November to January. 2-3 months seems like a reasonable amount of time to wait for him to make up his mind.

[norrisnick 1]

So, he ignored a four year 40 million dollar contract so he could sign a 5 year 40 million dollar contract? Basically playing a year for free so he could get a five year deal? The 4 year, 40 million dollar contract was on the table until two weeks before free agency began.

Lang was pushed out the door, Fedorov was offered THREE very reasonable contract extensions.

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

BTW, the 5 year deal was on the table from November to January. 2-3 months seems like a reasonable amount of time to wait for him to make up his mind.

Yes. Believe it or not, it was a matter of principle. He was offered a 5 year deal, that he never turned down, and that's what he was going to sign.

Three extensions that shrunk every time they got together.

2-3 months or a month and a half. Depends on what part of the months we're talking about. And don't forget that Fedorov was going through a divorce and firing his agents (who he blamed for the Kournikova/Enrique mess) at the time, which was why he asked to have time to sort his life out. All accounts suggest that by the time he got back to Kenny, the 5 year deal was gone and thus the negotiations spiral out of control and he leaves.

[therock48880 14]

All accounts suggest that by the time he got back to Kenny, the 5 year deal was gone and thus the negotiations spiral out of control and he leaves.

I've never seen any accounts suggesting that. Everything I've seen said he wanted out of Yzerman's shadow and wanted to be the leader of his own team. Even some of the Wings players at the time (according to McCarty's quote) felt that he wanted out. I don't think Fedorov has been overly concerned with principle. His history of difficult contract negotiations and near departure to Carolina would seem to prove me correct.

I understand he was having personal difficulties, but doesn't common sense tell you that a ten million dollar a year contract offer with the looming CBA expiration is something worth signing? Instead he signed for 8 million a year.

If the Wings pushed him out, then I certainly hope my employer tries to push me out by offering me a huge raise and more money annually than anyone else would.

[norrisnick 1]

I've never seen any accounts suggesting that. Everything I've seen said he wanted out of Yzerman's shadow and wanted to be the leader of his own team. Even some of the Wings players at the time (according to McCarty's quote) felt that he wanted out. I don't think Fedorov has been overly concerned with principle. His history of difficult contract negotiations and near departure to Carolina would seem to prove me correct.

I understand he was having personal difficulties, but doesn't common sense tell you that a ten million dollar a year contract offer with the looming CBA expiration is something worth signing? Instead he signed for 8 million a year.

If the Wings pushed him out, then I certainly hope my employer tries to push me out by offering me a huge raise and more money annually than anyone else would.

Try reading some of what Fedorov had to say when he finally did get around to talking about the negotiations.

His signing with Carolina was a matter of principle as well. He was considerably underpaid at the time. He was arguably the best player in the world and he wasn't getting treated as such by the Wings. He forced their hands and Kenny couldn't accept the deal fast enough (Fedorov would have actually averaged out to making $2M/yr less with the Hurricanes than with the Wings which leads some credence to his agent's comments that signing the offersheet was merely a ploy to get him back with the Wings as soon as possible since direct negotiations weren't going anywhere).

Term in most cases means more to a player than flat per year salary. Fedorov wanted the 5 year committment.

Fedorov was DUE a huge raise. From '98 to '03 he made $2M/yr (actually from '99 as the donated his entire '99 salary to a charitable foundation). And $8-10M wouldn't have made him the highest paid player on the Wings let alone the team.

[Louisville 112]

Uwe Krupp

[Barrie 900]

I dont see why people think Lang was such a bad trade. We arent paying for what we gave up, and he was basically the only reason we made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs once he came here. If anything, it should be a neutral. Nothing spectacular, but nothing to ruin the organization. He still showed up in the playoffs and helped us win those games more or less..

I agree, not great, but not bad.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

Good-

Zetterberg

Datsyuk

Bringing Osgood Back

Letting Legace go.

Bad-

Hatcher signing

Not backing CuJo when Hasek came back ( I loved CuJo and I really wanted him to work out, but oh well)

Dave Lewis over Barry Smith (Babcock is better then both IMO)

Letting Dino C go. I wish he won a cup here.

[drw138 6]

BAD

hatcher

krupp

GOOD

zetterberg

datsyuk

cheli

murphy, maccoun, frederick oulason

kocur from beer league in 97

matching carolina offer 98

letting feds walk in 03

not resigning bertuzzi

BEST

NOT TRADING YZERMAN

[interminded 1]

BEST

NOT TRADING YZERMAN

true

[Guest Canadian Wings]

I fail to see what's so bad about those moves. Knuble is nothing with out Gagne, Forsberg, ect... and Avery in the Matty deal? What is the big deal with losing him? He is a problematic player who has had what, one good year?

Best moves:

Letting Manny walk

Not re-signing Shanny

Not trading for Luongo (would have taken Dats or Z)

Drafting Z and Dats

this list could go on...

Worst moves:

Giving Manny the starting job

Re-signing Dom this past offseason

Signing Uwe and Hatcher

Letting Sergei go (I know his production has gone down, but at the time, he was one of the best in the game, and you could argue that if he were still here, playing with Dats and or Z, he'd still be up there, plus I love him)

The Wings prepared an offer sheet for him when he was still with Florida, they wouldn't have traded for him. Then he got moved to Vancouver and promptly signed an extension with them.

I agree with everything else but re-signing Hasek, that was the right move..

Edited October 23, 2007 by Canadian Wings

[OsGOD 3]

FYI... i would take a 5 years / 40mil over a 4 year/40 million deal in a heartbeat!

I would rather put as many years in between the bone head negotiations as possible.

Length of contract was the issue... same with Bert he wanted more than 1 then wings offered only 1... case closed he left to get a 2 year deal.

Sometimes its not the money but the stability of possibly remaining in once place a longer stretch of time. Obviously Trades nullify that term, but its your best chance to get the time in the original contract instead of praying on Extensions.

[Winged Scooter 0]

I'm really suprised no one has said drafting Lidstrom, ( or did I just miss it? )

How about trading Steve Chaisson to Calgary for Mike Vernon?

Worst:

Bob Essensa

Bill Ranford

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

A lot of the deals you guys are talking about go beyond the ten year limit.

in that case, worst decision ever is the adam oates bernie federko debacle. I'm still bitter.

[Winged Scooter 0]

A lot of the deals you guys are talking about go beyond the ten year limit.

in that case, worst decision ever is the adam oates bernie federko debacle. I'm still bitter.

You're right I guess it would help if I could read the title of the thread!

Bob Essensa still sucked really bad though, you have to admit...

[Spongewingredpants 75]

best decision: to show up in the playoffs and win 3 cups in the last 10 years

worst decision: to not show up in the playoffs and thus not win a cup

Edited October 23, 2007 by Spongewingredpants

[StormJH1 231]

Bill Ranford didn't fare much better either

Look up several posts

Fans "tolerate" Russian players until they do one thing to get on their bad side, and then they get stuck with the EuroTrash label. This team hasn't been the same since Fedorov left, but funny that nobody makes that connection. Even though players like Yzerman, Shanahan, and other supposed "core" players were still here, and still productive. Not every player is Stevie Yzerman...if you conduct a franchise negotiating contracts with the expectation that everyone has the class of Stevie Y, you wouldn't even be able to fill out a roster. Fedorov has a mystique about him that gave the Wings offense' a whole other dimension, and he was an EXCELLENT 2-way player. Not to mention the impact he could have had on the development of Datsyuk and Zetterberg, helping them to become more aggressive finishers at the net. What Fedorov brought was irreplaceable--and at the time we lost him, there was no salary cap. He should've retired a Wing, and if it were a North American player of his stature leaving, fans would've blamed mgmt, instead of the player, regardless of the true reason for his departure.

Think of it this way, if we didn't draft Primeau, we may not have been able to get Shanahan.

The best move we made was trading for Shanahan. All the other trades, i.e.) Chelios, Hasek, Schneider, Lang, etc. and Free Agent signings, i.e.) Hull, Robitaille, Hatcher, etc., were made possible because we won back-to-back Championships. Shanny was the missing piece of the puzzle.

Shanahan is rightfully credited as the "missing piece", but people tend to overvalue that "missing piece" at the expense of the rest of the puzzle...To make an analogy, yes, the American forces invading at Normandy turned the tide of the Western Front in World War II, but the Soviets fought the Nazis for much longer, and had a more significant impact on the fall of Nazi Germany...Shanahan added a needed element that the Wings lacked, but he was not more valuable than Yzerman or Fedorov, who made up the core of a team that had reached the Cup Finals in 1995, and the Western Conference Finals in 1996.

I don't think Primeau deserves to be slammed to the degree he is by Detroit fans. Yes, the fact that he was valuable enough to be traded FOR Brendan Shanahan (well, with an aging Paul Coffey) says something in itself. But he was an outstanding scorer, and a strong physical presence, who just had one terrible playoff year that remains in everyone's mind. He went on to have a solid NHL career, and was actually a very good playoff contributor with Philadelphia years later.

In retrospect, passing on Jagr was a mistake, but if you truly believe that Shanny was the "missing piece," then you can't argue that a team with both Jagr and Fedorov scoring goals and getting creamed into the boards would've been any better prepared to beat physical teams like the Devils and Avalanche.

[therock48880 14]

FYI... i would take a 5 years / 40mil over a 4 year/40 million deal in a heartbeat!

I would rather put as many years in between the bone head negotiations as possible.

Length of contract was the issue... same with Bert he wanted more than 1 then wings offered only 1... case closed he left to get a 2 year deal.

Sometimes its not the money but the stability of possibly remaining in once place a longer stretch of time. Obviously Trades nullify that term, but its your best chance to get the time in the original contract instead of praying on Extensions.

You seem to be glossing over the fact that a 5 year 50 million dollar contract was hand delivered by the owner.

So, you'd rather make 8 million per year than 10 million per year? Essentially skating one extra year, risking injury, for free? Bizarre.

[donfishmaster 62]

If not worst, then a missed opportunity...

NOT hiring some guy with a name like "Franky the Widowmaker" or "Tony Knuckles" to get hold of the guy that drove the limo after that horrible, awful accident in 1997 (before the police could get hold of him) and gut him like a small, insignificant fish.

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

I think that we may just find out soon that Grigorenko being called up was one of the worst decisions.

I hope not, but after seeing him on Saturday night playing, I am not too excited.

[T.Low 1,011]

I think that we may just find out soon that Grigorenko being called up was one of the worst decisions.

I hope not, but after seeing him on Saturday night playing, I am not too excited.

I suspect that Holland & Co. want to see Grigorenko in an NHL game sooner rather than later to re-asses him. Maybe with the Wings doing well lately, plus its early in the season, plus the Canucks are a little flat, maybe its as good a time as any to let Grigs lace 'em up and skate with the big boys to see what he can do. With the normal suspects filling in for injured players, the level of performance will be much less of a drop than if he plays when everyone is healthy.

In other words, what better time to $h!t of get off the pot!

Edit: Plus he gets three days of full practices with the team before the game with the Canuckleheads. Thats not to be underrated.

Edited October 23, 2007 by T.Low