Better Together than Apart

[Guest LivingtheDream]

From the Free Press today:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article.../710300407/1053

"...That comes as no surprise to those who've seen Zetterberg the past couple of seasons.

"He's a great two-way player," Wings coach Mike Babcock said Monday. "He's unbelievable without the puck and really dynamic with the puck. Right now he's getting talked about a lot, but his sidekick there in Pavel -- the two of them together are better than they are apart. They push one another, and they obviously push their team to be better."

Beating a dead horse with some of you, but if they are better together than apart then (drum roll.....) they belong together. Pretty simple. Give up the best line in the NHL for two weaker lines? Makes no sense, no sense at all.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

It does make sense if they can't put together some decent second line, which remains to be seen. Right now there's a massive hole there.

The option of having two viable lines, while still being able to put Z and Dats together if Babcock wants to, is better than only having one great line. Hopefully they'll sign someone or a couple players will step up and the Wings will have an actual scoring threat on the second line, so they can keep ZDH together.

Otherwise it'll be a lot of fun to watch them in the regular season, but they'll get matched up against in the playoffs, particularly on the road, and the Wings will be exposed as a one line team.

Edited October 30, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[toby91_ca 620]

Beating a dead horse with some of you, but if they are better together than apart then (drum roll.....) they belong together. Pretty simple. Give up the best line in the NHL for two weaker lines? Makes no sense, no sense at all.

Obviously they will "personally" be better together than apart, but the question is whether the team would be better with them together or apart and the answer to that question really depends on the scoring depth of the team.

If you are not getting scoring from your other 3 lines, you will need to separate them to try and get some depth, because if you don't have any, it will not be good....eventually.

[Opie 308]

If Flip, Huds, Sammy, Franzen (when back), Cleary, and others can continue to score goals then there is no reason to split them up. However as I, and others, have said without secondary scoring the two must be split up for the better of the team.

Right now the team is getting scoring from all kinds of players and everyone is helping that top line out. The longer those three (homer is having a great year as well) can stay together the better it is for the Wings. Because that means the other lines are scoring, or at least creating opportunities.

Obviously if you put two all world players together they are going to be better than if you separate them and give them scrubs.

That is like saying Crosby and Ovechkin kick ass together during the all-star game, and that if they were on the same line they would destroy the league. Of course they are going to be better together, but what is best for the team is another scenario.

[Hank 0]

If they're kept together in the playoffs don't expect many wins on the road. Anaheim and San Jose shut them down fairly well during ES situations.

We need more balanced scoring and that will come when Franzen gets back into the lineup and D and Z are split up.

They're better players with each other but we're a stronger team with them apart.

[betterREDthandead 58]

If they play together all year, teams will figure out how to stop it long before the playoffs roll around. Break 'em up, or they'll be ineffective when it counts.

[Bluedevils_13 0]

I do think Babs needs to slpit up the "(Re)Production Line", but it doesn't need to be Z&D . He should spread out our talent by giving someone else a chance on the first line, and putting Holmstrom with some one like Sammy, or Hudler. I don't see what it could hurt, and whoever plays with D&Z will most likely increase their scoring. Think about our top two lines looking like this

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Sammy

Franzen-Filppula-Holmstrom

or

Zetter-Dats-Franzen/Hudler/Cleary

Sammy-Filppula-Holmstrom

Edited October 30, 2007 by Bluedevils_13

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

I do think Babs needs to slpit up the "(Re)Production Line", but it doesn't need to be Z&D . He should spread out our talent by giving someone else a chance on the first line, and putting Holmstrom with some one like Sammy, or Hudler. I don't see what it could hurt, and whoever plays with D&Z will most likely increase their scoring.

i don't think that works. homer does what he does on the first line because of the talent levels of dats and z. homer's not going to raise anybody else's game, dats and z raise his. he's a perfect fit for that line, but we don't have two other forwards talented enough to let homer play his game. homer's only job is to park in front of the net and pick up garbage and screen. puck possession and gaining the zone is almost exclusively the responsiblity of d and z. it's a difficult dynamic to recreate. it works because z and dats are so incredibly talented.

[Rob the Badger 0]

I wouldn't mind seeing them on separate lines here and there to give teams two different lines to try to lock up. I liked how Scotty used to mess with the lines to mess with other teams. They can always be put together on power plays and if the team is down a goal.

[Bluedevils_13 0]

i don't think that works. homer does what he does on the first line because of the talent levels of dats and z. homer's not going to raise anybody else's game, dats and z raise his. he's a perfect fit for that line, but we don't have two other forwards talented enough to let homer play his game. homer's only job is to park in front of the net and pick up garbage and screen. puck possession and gaining the zone is almost exclusively the responsiblity of d and z. it's a difficult dynamic to recreate. it works because z and dats are so incredibly talented.

Well I do agree with you, he definatly is perfect for that line, but I would still like to see Homer on a line with Sammy given the quality(mostly unscreened wristers), and quanity(immense) of the shots he takes.

I wouldn't mind seeing them on separate lines here and there to give teams two different lines to try to lock up. I liked how Scotty used to mess with the lines to mess with other teams. They can always be put together on power plays and if the team is down a goal.

Thats actually what I am going for too. I always loved how Scotty did that and I thought it worked, and could still work. I don't know, maybe I am just really bored lol. I do think we have the depth for that kind of thing still though.

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

Well I do agree with you, he definatly is perfect for that line, but I would still like to see Homer on a line with Sammy given the quality(mostly unscreened wristers), and quanity(immense) of the shots he takes.

Thats actually what I am going for too. I always loved how Scotty did that and I thought it worked, and could still work. I don't know, maybe I am just really bored lol. I do think we have the depth for that kind of thing still though.

for homer to do his thing, sammy and whoever else would be on that line would be almost exclusively responsible for gaining the zone and setting up the play. now, i know sammy like to act like he can handle the puck like datsyuk, but i'm afraid the reality of the situation is much more grim.

anyway, i wouldn't mind seeing different line combos, to see if anything works, but i don't think homer's the asnwer to balanced scoring. datsyuk homer and flip is good i think. they were great last year. maybe z sammy and franz. i don't know. it'll be interesting when franzed comes back. if babs finds something that works, then great, if not, i think zdh is doing great right now. our team has been very good since that line's been established.

when it comes to playoffs hopefully we'll have attended to our issues of scoring depth. until then, i don't see a problem with keeping zdh together if nothing else is working.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

No point in splitting them up for weaker lines until we can get at least 1 more 2nd line player. Theres nothing wrong with keeping Hank and Datsyuk together until the deadline when we add something of substance to the 2nd line. Thats plenty of time to figure out whos got chemistry with who.

At this point, Hudler-Flip-Sammy is showing some chemistry. Lets see what they can do before dismantling the best line in the NHL.

[Opie 308]

The funny thing is check out this article that was posted here a little while ago

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...1128/SPORTS0103

If Zetterberg wins the Art Ross this season, he might have to do it while playing on another line.

"We'll go away from it," Babcock said of the Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom line. "We're better and deeper (this season) and we want to spread it out.

Edited October 30, 2007 by Opie

[Guest wingswillwincup]

it makes no sense that they cant play well apart ....... what do you guys think will happen in the playoffs ?? a team will obviously take out datsyuk or zetterberg , then what if that happens ??? were screwed ??? as amazing as that line has been and as much as i like it if they can't play apart then whats the point of payin them the big bucks ?? They are stars there suppose to make players around them better, sooner or later babcock will have to split them up unless we get a star like forsberg to center the 2nd line

Yes hes old and has injuries but he can still play and if hes ready for the playoffs thats all that counts, we can't just depend on one amazing line to win cause sooner or later a team would stop team in the playoffs and we'd be screwed ......... if filppula and hudler keep playing the way they have the last few games though that would be a HUGE boost

[Dabura 12,232]

I just hope Kenny pulls off something spectacular at the trade deadline. Because, honestly, no amount of mixing and matching is going to make our current offensive unit competitive enough to win it all.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

i like keeping them together,

[LeftWinger 5,140]

I just hope Kenny pulls off something spectacular at the trade deadline. Because, honestly, no amount of mixing and matching is going to make our current offensive unit competitive enough to win it all.

...you get Fedorov & Sudin and you have three SUPER lines with the grinders as #4...

[Guest DetroitIan]

From the Free Press today:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article.../710300407/1053

"...That comes as no surprise to those who've seen Zetterberg the past couple of seasons.

"He's a great two-way player," Wings coach Mike Babcock said Monday. "He's unbelievable without the puck and really dynamic with the puck. Right now he's getting talked about a lot, but his sidekick there in Pavel -- the two of them together are better than they are apart. They push one another, and they obviously push their team to be better."

Beating a dead horse with some of you, but if they are better together than apart then (drum roll.....) they belong together. Pretty simple. Give up the best line in the NHL for two weaker lines? Makes no sense, no sense at all.

Absolutely! I've been saying that all along. Looks like Babcock completely agrees.

[Grittzkey 1]

At this point, Hudler-Flip-Sammy is showing some chemistry. Lets see what they can do before dismantling the best line in the NHL.

This message is approved.

I like this line alot this is the line i pay most attention to..

[Flip-check 6]

If they're kept together in the playoffs don't expect many wins on the road. Anaheim and San Jose shut them down fairly well during ES situations.

We need more balanced scoring and that will come when Franzen gets back into the lineup and D and Z are split up.

They're better players with each other but we're a stronger team with them apart.

I just hope Kenny pulls off something spectacular at the trade deadline. Because, honestly, no amount of mixing and matching is going to make our current offensive unit competitive enough to win it all.

In place of doing this topic over again, I'll just say this:

QFT x2

[Izzy24 44]

I thought this thread was going to be about peanut butter and chocolate.

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

I thought this thread was going to be about peanut butter and chocolate.

LOL

that's the best post i've read all day.

[This Is Bida 0]

If they play together all year, teams will figure out how to stop it long before the playoffs roll around. Break 'em up, or they'll be ineffective when it counts.

oh really?

than how is it that only ONE single team was able to stop the Senators top line last year?

youre telling me 4 teams that the Senators faced in the Eastern Conference couldnt figure out how to stop them, well thats because theyre among the best players in the WORLD and no, its not that easy to simply "figure out a way to stop them".

if its so easy to stop them than why thru 12 games hasnt anyone been able to??

they back defenseman off with ease, play puck possesion without any challenge.

sorry, but if it were THAT easy to stop them, than Zetterberg wouldnt be the top scorer in the NHL.

break him apart from the DZH line, he wont be the top point leader for long.

[eva unit zero 271]

Zetterberg and Datsyuk will be more effective individually if they are placed on a line together. This much has not been argued.

However, the Red Wings will have more success with the two apart, as evidenced by last spring when the DZH line had limited success on the road (as has been mentioned over and over) due to the ability of teams to use the home ice advantage to match their best shutdown line against the Wings' top line consistently. Obviously, if the line of Hudler/Filppula/Samuelsson develops chemistry and starts scoring like we know they are capable of, that becomes a non-issue. But it would probably be better for the team's depth and general success to swap one of Z or Dats with one of Huds or Flip, providing a little more punch to the second line and making the Wings deeper by evening out the scoring.

[toby91_ca 620]

oh really?

than how is it that only ONE single team was able to stop the Senators top line last year?

youre telling me 4 teams that the Senators faced in the Eastern Conference couldnt figure out how to stop them, well thats because theyre among the best players in the WORLD and no, its not that easy to simply "figure out a way to stop them".

if its so easy to stop them than why thru 12 games hasnt anyone been able to??

they back defenseman off with ease, play puck possesion without any challenge.

sorry, but if it were THAT easy to stop them, than Zetterberg wouldnt be the top scorer in the NHL.

break him apart from the DZH line, he wont be the top point leader for long.

They wouldn't be stopped, but if a team can focus on them and limit their chances, they give themselves a great chance of winning if there are no other lines to carry the load. Last year Ottawa had more offensive depth than Detroit does so far this year.