once again hudler gets screwed over

[Guest wingswillwincup]

i love franzen but now that hes back hudler gets screwed over and tossed aside , i found hudler and filppula were really picking it up the last few games ..... when asked what line hudler would play with now babcock said ...."whoever".

who ever ?? wtf is that ?? lol , maybe im just over reacting but i find it really ridiculous how he keeps getting tossed aside as soon as someone comes back , as much as i wished hudler would have more of a role here with babcock as coach i doubt it'll ever happen and we might as well consider trading him before his value goes down

Coach Babcock moves Johan Franzen to second line

Also wants Ellis, Downey in mix

November 4, 2007

BY HELENE ST. JAMES

FREE PRESS SPORTS WRITER

While Niklas Kronwall was telling reporters how he felt after practice Saturday, Red Wings teammate Valtteri Filppula chimed in and said he thought Kronwall "looked great."

The practice was not a long one: With no game looming again until Wednesday and the Wings just back from a stretch that saw them on the road 15 of 20 days, the only reason to hit the ice at all was because that made it possible to take today off.

Advertisement

When the Wings do resume playing, one line will have a slightly different look. Johan Franzen will be with Filppula and Mikael Samuelsson, bumping Jiri Hudler from the spot.

"I like his skill and his shot," Mike Babcock said of Franzen. "I like him, period."

Babcock said he'd envisioned having Franzen on a top-two line all along, and Franzen was playing with Pavel Datsyuk and Tomas Holmstrom before being sidelined by a sprained knee in the second game of the season. Since that time Datsyuk and Holmstrom have joined with Henrik Zetterberg to form the best line in the NHL, leaving Filppula and Samuelsson as the best place to put Franzen.

Asked whom Hudler would be playing with now, Babcock replied, "whoever," -- the point being that most of Hudler's minutes will come from being on the second power-play unit. At even strength, Hudler will probably play with Tomas Kopecky and Dallas Drake, although Babcock will keep that line in flux in order to also get Matt Ellis and Aaron Downey into the rotation.

"We know what Drake does," Babcock said, "and Draker is not going to be an everynight player for us in the first half as much as he will be in the second half. One of those kids (Downey or Ellis) will play more. I want to know about those kids and develop them."

At 6-foot-3, 220 pounds, Franzen towers over 5-10, 182-pound Hudler, bringing size and shooting to Filppula's line.

"Sammy and Huds and Mule (Franzen) are all really good shooters," Filppula said, "so there's real good chance we're going to score. ... (Franzen) is a really big guy and he can protect the puck really well."

As for Kronwall, who has missed three games with a sore groin, he laughed and said he wanted Filppula's assessment quoted, and on his own behalf said he felt good and would be back against Nashville on Wednesday.

[Guest Agalloch]

Well, Franzen provides a lot more than Hudler does, and he's also, you know, better than Hudler, so it makes sense to me.

[e_mcgrath88 0]

why wouldnt he get tossed aside in favour of franzen?

[Grittzkey 1]

he also said that Hudler would be on the PP2 line.. so PP2 and L4... he should be solid. pushed aside for franz? shure. but he is still going to get playing time.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

Well, Franzen provides a lot more than Hudler does, and he's also, you know, better than Hudler, so it makes sense to me.

im not gonna argue with you about franzen , cause i said i love the guy too he can score 10 + , hes big and can hit guys and can kill penalties and check guys .... but he can also play on the 3rd-4th lines and its not a problem , hudler is more of an offensive guy and besides our 1st line which is on a big role we dont have another line who's really contributing on a nightly basis although the hudler - filppula - samuelsson were playing really well the last few games , so why put a small guy with hudler's offensive talent and put him on a checking line with guys who aren't really offensive guys?? Just doesnt make sense to me

[wingnut40 176]

The only bad thing with our team is we have too many good players and can't find a spot for them all.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Meh, Samuelson and Franzen are better, he was playing well, but dems da breaks kid.

[puckloo39 5,686]

The only bad thing with our team is we have too many good players and can't find a spot for them all.

you have a bit of a point there. We are a little spoiled in that sense... I was talking to a friend in Dallas, who is a Stars "day-one" guy, season ticket holder from 1992 when the franchise moved there. He is certain they will miss the playoffs, 12 games into the season. They're not great, but sitting right at .500, 2 points from last in the west (Phoenix is last). They'd probably love Hudler there.

Mule is good, and big. We need him back. Sorry, Jiri...

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

you have a bit of a point there. We are a little spoiled in that sense... I was talking to a friend in Dallas, who is a Stars "day-one" guy, season ticket holder from 1992 when the franchise moved there. He is certain they will miss the playoffs, 12 games into the season. They're not great, but sitting right at .500, 2 points from last in the west (Phoenix is last). They'd probably love Hudler there.

Mule is good, and big. We need him back. Sorry, Jiri...

Hudler and Kopecky for Morrow!

Sorry Loo, I couldnt resist

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Well, Franzen provides a lot more than Hudler does, and he's also, you know, better than Hudler, so it makes sense to me.

Yeah, in every facet other then actual production, you sure nailed it.

However, Hudler still out produces Franzen and Filppula.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Agreed...Hoodlum may have as good of hands (maybe even better) than the Mule - however the Mule has alot more to offer overall, & IMO should get a chance to play on the 2nd line.

We all love Franzen. No question. But there's no need to suddenly give him magic hands. Hudler's got the best shot on this team. He's not much more then a shot and pair of hands, but he's worth throwing on that second line because he sure as hell doesn't provide much on a checking line

Edited November 5, 2007 by Drake_Marcus

[eva unit zero 271]

Putting Hudler on the fourth line in a checking role and Franzen on the second in a scoring role does not do nearly as much for this team as putting Franzen on the fourth in a checking role and Hudler on the second in a scoring role; in the first scenario, one player is useful while one player is completely mis-used. In the second, both players are useful, to at very least the degree Franzen is successful on a scoring line.

[Doggy 130]

Hudler needs to adapt to the teams needs, if he doesn't he becomes superfluous. He's very gifted offensively (which is great) but we need another dimension from him. If Babcock wants to extract that from him by taking him out of his comfort zone and forcing him to be accountable than I fully agree with that.

This can only be good for Hudler as a player. Zetterberg, Yzerman and Fedorov are/were all two-way players. Wouldn't be a bad thing if Hudler joined that list.

And if he does not pass this 'experiment', it wouldn't hurt to trade him. Losing Hudler wouldn't affect this team in any way.

Harsh but fair. Sad but true.

[Opie 308]

I wouldn't mind seeing a Cleary Draper Huds line, thus leaving the 4th line with any combo of Drake/Ellis/Kopecky/Downey/Maltby

[Rob the Badger 0]

What's to stop Chelios from putting Hudler on the 4th line?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

I don't really care where they put Hoods, 4th line is better than a healthy scratch. As long as Downey is still in the line up so someone out there can police the ice. He's added a dimension to the ice that the Wings have been missing.

[toby91_ca 620]

Yeah, in every facet other then actual production, you sure nailed it.

However, Hudler still out produces Franzen and Filppula.

Actually, I don't think there is a big difference in production (stats wise) and Franzen brings more beyond that than Hudler does.

Looking at the 06/07 regular season stats:

Franzen - 0.435 ppg

Hudler - 0.329 ppg

For those that love the production per ice time argument, which I hate:

Franzen - 0.0279 points per minute

Hudler - 0.0328 ppm

However, remember, Hulder played much more power play time than Franzen, a lot of Franzen's extra playing time came on PK.

[eva unit zero 271]

Hudler needs to adapt to the teams needs, if he doesn't he becomes superfluous. He's very gifted offensively (which is great) but we need another dimension from him. If Babcock wants to extract that from him by taking him out of his comfort zone and forcing him to be accountable than I fully agree with that.

This can only be good for Hudler as a player. Zetterberg, Yzerman and Fedorov are/were all two-way players. Wouldn't be a bad thing if Hudler joined that list.

And if he does not pass this 'experiment', it wouldn't hurt to trade him. Losing Hudler wouldn't affect this team in any way.

Harsh but fair. Sad but true.

Hudler is not a bad defensive player. He's far from our best defensive forward, but he's not a liability. My major complaint with this move is that we're taking an offensively gifted player who was just developing chemistry with his linemates, and putting him on the fourth line in a checking role in favor of a less offensively capable player who is big, strong, and good defensively. I could understand the move if it were to create a third line capable of scoring, but putting Hudler on the fourth and Franzen on the second means our second line is not as capable of scoring, and our fourth line is not as capable of checking.

[PROBIE4PREZ 58]

Hudler needs to adapt to the teams needs, if he doesn't he becomes superfluous. He's very gifted offensively (which is great) but we need another dimension from him. If Babcock wants to extract that from him by taking him out of his comfort zone and forcing him to be accountable than I fully agree with that.

This can only be good for Hudler as a player. Zetterberg, Yzerman and Fedorov are/were all two-way players. Wouldn't be a bad thing if Hudler joined that list.

And if he does not pass this 'experiment', it wouldn't hurt to trade him. Losing Hudler wouldn't affect this team in any way.

Harsh but fair. Sad but true.

pretty much took the words right out from mouth. Huds is to much of a liabitly 5 v 5, but his offensive skill is primetime for the pp2. I predict he scores more than 3/4 of my projected 15 goals on the pp

[toby91_ca 620]

Hudler is not a bad defensive player. He's far from our best defensive forward, but he's not a liability. My major complaint with this move is that we're taking an offensively gifted player who was just developing chemistry with his linemates, and putting him on the fourth line in a checking role in favor of a less offensively capable player who is big, strong, and good defensively. I could understand the move if it were to create a third line capable of scoring, but putting Hudler on the fourth and Franzen on the second means our second line is not as capable of scoring, and our fourth line is not as capable of checking.

I can understand your point, but I think it is more about what's best for Hulder than what's best for the team. In my opinion, what's best for the team is to have Franzen get more playing time than Hudler. In terms of Hudler being more offensively gifted, that will probably show by the fact that he will get more power play time.

I have seen many, many, many scenarios where players of Hudler's ilk simply are not even on the roster. Basically, you have a guy that has NHL level offensive abilities, but not quite good enough for 1st or 2nd line and don't have the qualities desired for 3rd and 4th line roles.

[eva unit zero 271]

Actually, I don't think there is a big difference in production (stats wise) and Franzen brings more beyond that than Hudler does.

Looking at the 06/07 regular season stats:

Franzen - 0.435 ppg

Hudler - 0.329 ppg

For those that love the production per ice time argument, which I hate:

Franzen - 0.0279 points per minute

Hudler - 0.0328 ppm

However, remember, Hulder played much more power play time than Franzen, a lot of Franzen's extra playing time came on PK.

06-07 Regular season stats:

Ice time:

Hudler: 647:00 ES, 0:58 SH, 114:54 PP

Franzen: 821:21 ES, 169:06 SH, 85:10 PP

Average: 734:11 ES, 85:02 SH, 100:02 PP

Scoring:

Hudler: 12-8-20 ES, 0-0-0 SH, 3-2-5 PP, 15-10-25 Tot

Franzen: 9-16-25 ES, 1-3-4 SH, 0-1-1 PP, 10-20-30 Tot

Adjusted to 'average' time:

Hudler: 14-9-23 ES, 0-0-0 SH, 3-2-5 PP, 17-11-28 Tot

Franzen: 8-14-22 ES, 1-2-3 SH, 0-1-1 PP, 9-17-26 Tot

So you can see, adjusting for the differences in special teams time, Hudler still comes out with more points. And that was playing with guys who couldn't score; when Hudler actually saw time on the second line towards the end of last season, he was racking up assists as well as goals.

[DEVILSWATERBOY 10]

Hudler, Kopecky and Ference for Doan

[FinRedWing 172]

Hudler is going to be the only 4th liner to score 30 goals in the NHL this season!

[SweWings 45]

Hudler is going to be the only 4th liner to score 30 goals in the NHL this season!

Yaaaay!!

[Izzy24 44]

i love franzen but now that hes back hudler gets screwed over and tossed aside , i found hudler and filppula were really picking it up the last few games ..... when asked what line hudler would play with now babcock said ...."whoever".

who ever ?? wtf is that ?? lol , maybe im just over reacting but i find it really ridiculous how he keeps getting tossed aside as soon as someone comes back , as much as i wished hudler would have more of a role here with babcock as coach i doubt it'll ever happen and we might as well consider trading him before his value goes down

Coach Babcock moves Johan Franzen to second line

Also wants Ellis, Downey in mix

It's easy to toss him aside, what with him being tiny and all.

Hudler and Kopecky for Morrow!

Yeah! Do it! DO IT!

[Guest LivingtheDream]

I bet this - if some day Hudler emerges as an awesome force on our team we will learn how coach just rode his ass all the way. Hudler has skills and potential, but the package is not all there in a complete way. I honestly think Babcock is giving this guy the extreme Karate Kid treatment to be the best player he can be. Wax on, wax off.