Trade Deadline Moves

[Thunderpriest 8]

Okay, so I've been reading the reports of the Wings shopping for Mats Sundin, but I don't buy it.

I'm sure that inquiries have been made, if for no other reason than to get a feel for what's available on the market, but I don't see Sundin coming to Detroit.

So, what moves should Kenny make, if any?

It's difficult to break up a team that's on pace to set a new points total record, but I have an unsettling feeling that we should make one or two moves, because you know that other teams will not sit pat and just wait for us to walk over them in the playoffs. Also, should we even consider a rental player? I think that anyone we would trade for should be a permanent addition, as we're getting thin in Grand Rapids.

Do we have a team geared for the playoffs or just the regular season?

Let's analyze a bit..........

Goaltending.

Rock solid. Best in the league. When we win the cup, Dom can retire.....again....and let Ozzie man the helm with Howard as the backup next year. Howard needs time as a full-time NHL backup for a full season. Let's not throw him to the wolves as the starter as the Lions like to do with QBs.

Defense:

Also, solid, but I can see us making a move for depth. Kronwall has a propensity for injuring himself, so a solid top-4 defenseman would be a nice addition. I miss Markov. I miss Fischer. We can use the snarl in front of the net, because you know that teams will crash the net harder in the playoffs, and that has been our defenses only real weakness. We don't have big bodies to clear the crease, and I think that we should get one. Hold that thought.

Forwards:

Where do we improve? We score more goals than anyone. We are fast & skilled. Where do we improve? On the second and/or fourth lines. We are still without an elite presence on the second line.....unless we split up Hank and Pavel. Me, I just love them playing together. I know that Babs likes them split, but that could change with a real scoring threat on the second line.

So some second line firepower is next to be addressed.

Lastly, what about the fourth line? Tell you what, I love having Downey on the ice, so I wouldn't want to part with him. Drake could leave and I'd be just fine with that. Same goes for Sammy, but I'll bet that Babs wants his size & grit in the playoffs, so if he's not packaged for that second liner, then he'll stay. Ellis has made a nice showing, providing good energy & grit, but he's expendable. So, the fourth line could see a depth move if nothing is done for the second line.

Let's throw the chips in a pile and see what we come up with...........

Needs: Defensive depth, and either 2nd line scoring or 4th line depth.

Who's expendable?

On D: Lilja, Lebda, Meech & Quincey are all available, depending upon who we could get in return. I wouldn't offer up Lilja unless we'd be bringing in a big, defensive blueliner, as Lilja is our only real physical presence - though he is prone to bad plays at the wrong time. (*cough* Anaheim, turn-over, Selanne, all done.)

Up Front: Drake, Kopecky, Samuelsson, & Ellis. (Though I doubt anyone would take Drake at this point.)

Next: Who is out there to trade with? With all of the parity in the league, very few teams are really out of the playoff hunt. The Eastern Conference is brutal. There is only one team above 50 points - Ottawa - whereas there are 6 teams above 50 in the West. (And one team has nearly 70 points already. Guess who. )

In the Atlantic Division, only 5 points separates the first and last place teams, so some bottom feeders still have hope. Toronto, Washington & Tampa Bay seem like the only viable trade partners there.

Who in the West would want to trade with us? Clearly only a team that is out of the running, or close to it. LA is done. Chicago is very shaky, but I don't see them trading with us. They've already gotten Lang & Williams. Any more & they'll be the Chicago Junior Wings.

Columbus & Nashville are possibilities, but we again have an inter-divisional trade situation which would make terms unfavorable. So that leaves Edmonton & Phoenix.

So, we've got Toronto, Washington, Tampa Bay, Edmonton & Phoenix. (Okay, I've got a secret desire to trade for Fedorov, so I'll throw Columbus out there as well.)

So, looking over the players on those teams......the cupboard seems bare, with a few exceptions:

All of those teams have a similar problem.....they have a few very good players, (read: young, expensive, not going anywhere) and a complete lack of second tier talent, which is what we need.

Toronto: Toronto appears to be the most likely trade partner at this point, and I'm not considering Sundin. Nik Antropov & Hal Gill would be nice additions, especially Gill. Both are affordable and signed through 08-09. Both are big bodies....Antropov at 6'6" & Gill at 6'7".

Antropov is only 27, and on pace for 30 goals at +12. Price: $1.95M/year.

Gill is 32, +6, is enormous and likes to hit & clear the crease. Price: $2.075M/year

Washington

The only player I'd even consider is AO, and we know that's not happening.

LA:

Lots of talented youngsters that aren't going anywhere. Blake is not attractive to me. So, LA is a wash.

Edmonton:

Another young team where anyone worth looking at is not going to be available. Pass.

Tampa Bay:

Ditto. Not getting Lecavalier, Richards or St. Louis. I'll pass on the rest.

Phoenix:

JovoCop would be nice. Not for $6.5M/year through 2011 unless we're trading away the same kind of salaries.........uh, likely not.

Radim Vrbata is an option. He's young at 26, is +6 and on pace for 38 goals this year. He's UFA at season's end, too, so we wouldn't have to give up as much.

Columbus:

Fedorov. Sure, Sergei's older and not putting up a lot of numbers now, but I do believe that he would produce more back home in Detroit. Pipe dream, though. Not likely to happen. (Sorry, he was my favorite player when with the Wings. I can dream, can't I?)

Rostislav Klesla. He's 23, 6'3 & 216lbs. He's +8 and signed through 09/10 for $1.6M. Could be a nice addition on the blue-line.

So, what've we got?

Forwards: Antropov & Vrbata (Feds )

Defensemen: Gill & Klesla.

What would it take to get one of them? Two of them? Any of them?

I'd love to see us acquire Antropov & Gill from Toronto. Put Antropov on the 2nd line w/ Filpulla & Hudler. Yummy. Play Gill opposite Kronwall. Send any combination of Sammy, Ellis, Kopecky, Lilja, Lebda, Meech, Hartigan, & Quicney for them. How about Samuelsson, Kopecky, Lilja, Meech + late draft pick for Gill & Antropov? Would they do that?

How would this look?

Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom

Filpulla, Antropov, Hudler

Maltby, Draper, Cleary

Drake, Franzen, Downey

Ellis & Hartigan for depth

Lidstrom, Rafalski

Kronwall, Gill

Chelios, Lebda

Quincey

Hasek

Osgood

Scary, right?

Rolling all 4 lines, right?

Discuss.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Great post. Love the indepth discussion.

No way Antro is leaving the Leafs- they know he's money. It would take wayyyyyyy too much to land a talented young player with that kind o fsize.

Gill, however, if availible, is a nice big body with more skill then Lillypads

[Guest Crymson]

Note that Lilja is on the last year of his contract. He's not trade-bait.

[egroen 384]

You are targeting the large, young and signed & cheap form those teams -- that is exactly what they are going to want to keep.

You have much better chance of getting Fedorov than Antropov, Klesla or Gill.

[Reds4Life 51]

Gill sucks. After the lockout his style of play is useless. He's slow. Lilja's better. I'd rather get Klesla, but Jackets are not gonna trade him to Wings. Feds would be great, but again..not happening

What would we need to give up? What can we give away? I don't think we should trade draft picks. I'd only trade Meech/Ellis/Kopecky.

[Thunderpriest 8]

You are targeting the large, young and signed & cheap form those teams -- that is exactly what they are going to want to keep.

You have much better chance of getting Fedorov than Antropov, Klesla or Gill.

I do realize this, but I believe that those teams may part with one or two of those players if they were able to upgrade the team as a whole. Antropov & Gill are affordable - not cheap - and Antropov will be up for a raise, as he's only signed through next season. Same with Gill, but I think he's making about what he should.

I actually meant to throw Lebda in instead of Lilja........not sure where my head was at.

So, the trade would send approx $4M/year of salary from Toronto to Detroit. That salary is good for 1 more year, and will likely grow with Antropov receiving a raise.

The Wings would send 4 bodies; Samuelsson, Kopecky, Lebda & Meech all signed through 08/09 (Meech is actually signed through 09/10) - for $2.83M.

So Detroit actually only increases payroll by a little more than $1M - easily absorbed if you figure that Hasek, Chelios & Drake will be gone next season, which I do. Toronto improves as a team - marginally - and they drop salary for use in the off-season. Let's not forget that Ferguson really has to be sweating his job security and he's going to have to shake the team up if he hopes to remain employed.

Under this scenario, we're at $37M towards the cap next year with Osgood, Cleary, Filpulla, Lilja & Downey to resign and Howard to add. That should be easy enough to do, as well as accomodating Zetterberg in 09.

[Grittzkey 1]

Same goes for Sammy, but I'll bet that Babs wants his size & grit in the playoffs, so if he's not packaged for that second liner, then he'll stay

Sammy has size, but i dont recon he has much grit ever, even when PO's come.

--

I agree with the team needs.

But i think the biggest is a depth d-man. Not necessarily a big tough rough guy, but an upgrade over Meech. Meech quite possibly could become a solid D-Man but not this year, We need someone to come in when Chelly needs a day off. Kronner gets injured.

We have 5 Potential 2nd line forwards, Hudler,Flipper,Sammy,Franzen,Cleary. That leaves 1 of them on the 4th line and that just doesnt float very well. All are to talented for the 4th.

So i think we could ship out Sammy for a 4th line Grinder and a Solid Reserve D-Man. Sammy is pretty much the only guy outta those 5 who i would part ways with.

Am i the only one who thinks we could ship out Sammy,Meech for Sutton,Jackman from the Islanders?

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Gill is a waste of size if there ever was one. He's slow, he's not a great fighter, and he turns the puck over a lot. He's a slightly bigger version of Cory Cross. I'd love to have Jovanovski, but the price tag is too high. I don't expect Holland to make any big splashes, even if the other teams out West do.

[lfd250 1]

Can we make all the Trade Dead line post in the above area like the GDT? I mean it seems like there's 20 different threads, and eveyone has a great opion, would just save space.

Thanks

[HenryMalredo 2]

It's a negative, not a positive that some of these players are still under contract next year. The Wings want to be flexible. Anyone who comes in will be a rental unless they prove themselves otherwise.

[Feldmarschall 9]

Toronto would have to be retarded to take that trade. They gain two bottom six forwards, a number 5 defenseman and a depth prospect nearing the end of his potential in exchange for a different number 5 defenseman and a top six forward, in addition to losing fiscal flexibility for what will surely be a busy offseason while the team attempts to rebuild and retool.

Their team already has a logjam of what Mack calls "good enough" players with no real top-end skill. The last thing on their mind is to get more bottom-end players that can hold a job but not break a game. It may be tempting to figure that Antropov for Sammy is almost even, but it's really not. Sammy is a third-line player that's played above his level with solid linemates since he came here, whereas Antropov is displaying solid potential to go with his youth and size advantage. Lebda and Meech aren't attractive enough to make up for that difference given the depth in Toronto's system with regards to low-end defensive prospects.

[imisssergei 0]

Toronto: Toronto appears to be the most likely trade partner at this point, and I'm not considering Sundin. Nik Antropov & Hal Gill would be nice additions, especially Gill. Both are affordable and signed through 08-09. Both are big bodies....Antropov at 6'6" & Gill at 6'7".

Antropov is only 27, and on pace for 30 goals at +12. Price: $1.95M/year.

Gill is 32, +6, is enormous and likes to hit & clear the crease. Price: $2.075M/year

Washington

The only player I'd even consider is AO, and we know that's not happening.

LA:

Lots of talented youngsters that aren't going anywhere. Blake is not attractive to me. So, LA is a wash.

Edmonton:

Another young team where anyone worth looking at is not going to be available. Pass.

Tampa Bay:

Ditto. Not getting Lecavalier, Richards or St. Louis. I'll pass on the rest.

Phoenix:

JovoCop would be nice. Not for $6.5M/year through 2011 unless we're trading away the same kind of salaries.........uh, likely not.

Radim Vrbata is an option. He's young at 26, is +6 and on pace for 38 goals this year. He's UFA at season's end, too, so we wouldn't have to give up as much.

Columbus:

Fedorov. Sure, Sergei's older and not putting up a lot of numbers now, but I do believe that he would produce more back home in Detroit. Pipe dream, though. Not likely to happen. (Sorry, he was my favorite player when with the Wings. I can dream, can't I?)

Rostislav Klesla. He's 23, 6'3 & 216lbs. He's +8 and signed through 09/10 for $1.6M. Could be a nice addition on the blue-line.

My two cents...

Toronto: JFJ isn't going to be moving any of Toronto's young forwards. If anyone leaves, it will be Sundin. But Wellwood, Steen, Stajan, and Tucker are all nice to look at.

Washington: Seriously, no one outside of Ovie that you'd consider? What about Backstrom, Semin, or Green? Any of those three guys have much more potential than anyone in the Wings system.

LA: A bunch of young talented guys that are going nowhere? I'll give you the fact that they are young, and inexperienced at the NHL level. However, the likes of Frolov, Brown, Kopitar, O'Sullivan, Johnson and Bernier are all grad A talent. The Kings will be a very good team once those guys get it together, which isn't far off the horizon. Add Cammalleri to the mix, he is a legit scorer.

Tampa Bay: Once you get past Vinny, St. Louis, and Richards, there isn't a whole lot to be desired in Tampa. But hold on. Prospal, Oueltte and Boyle would all be nice fits.

Phoenix: They are widely regarded to have one of the best group of prospects. Not to mention Doan and Boyton will draw attention.

Columbus: Fedorov, as much as I love him, won't be coming this way. Beyond him? Modin, Zherdev, Vyborny, Foote, and Westcott.

Any of the players I mentioned wouldbe nice additions to the Wings roster. Do any of them have a legit chance of coming to Detroit? Who knows what Kenny's got cooking in the kitchen......

[HenryMalredo 2]

My two cents...

Toronto: JFJ isn't going to be moving any of Toronto's young forwards. If anyone leaves, it will be Sundin. But Wellwood, Steen, Stajan, and Tucker are all nice to look at.

Washington: Seriously, no one outside of Ovie that you'd consider? What about Backstrom, Semin, or Green? Any of those three guys have much more potential than anyone in the Wings system.

LA: A bunch of young talented guys that are going nowhere? I'll give you the fact that they are young, and inexperienced at the NHL level. However, the likes of Frolov, Brown, Kopitar, O'Sullivan, Johnson and Bernier are all grad A talent. The Kings will be a very good team once those guys get it together, which isn't far off the horizon. Add Cammalleri to the mix, he is a legit scorer.

Tampa Bay: Once you get past Vinny, St. Louis, and Richards, there isn't a whole lot to be desired in Tampa. But hold on. Prospal, Oueltte and Boyle would all be nice fits.

Phoenix: They are widely regarded to have one of the best group of prospects. Not to mention Doan and Boyton will draw attention.

Columbus: Fedorov, as much as I love him, won't be coming this way. Beyond him? Modin, Zherdev, Vyborny, Foote, and Westcott.

Any of the players I mentioned wouldbe nice additions to the Wings roster. Do any of them have a legit chance of coming to Detroit? Who knows what Kenny's got cooking in the kitchen......

I highly doubt any of those teams will be trading their young players to the Wings.

[imisssergei 0]

I highly doubt any of those teams will be trading their young players to the Wings.

I didn't say they would. I was just pointing out that there is more on the roster than the original poster was looking at.

[DFWBruiser 0]

Washington needs D help, I could see a player like Semin heading to the Joe for a couple of our Defensemen. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I don't think it's completely out of the question.

[MacK_Attack 108]

The Wings would send 4 bodies; Samuelsson, Kopecky, Lebda & Meech all signed through 08/09 (Meech is actually signed through 09/10) - for $2.83M.

So if the Leafs are in true sell mode (which they would have to be to move Antropov, Gill could be had at anytime, really), why would they take back four roster players? They'd definitely want picks/prospects for Antropov & Gill. They'd be trying to shed salary, not take back a relatively equal amount.

I'm not sure why the Leafs would give Antropov away for such a meagre return when he's having a career year.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Sammy has size, but i dont recon he has much grit ever, even when PO's come.

--

I agree with the team needs.

But i think the biggest is a depth d-man. Not necessarily a big tough rough guy, but an upgrade over Meech. Meech quite possibly could become a solid D-Man but not this year, We need someone to come in when Chelly needs a day off. Kronner gets injured.

We have 5 Potential 2nd line forwards, Hudler,Flipper,Sammy,Franzen,Cleary. That leaves 1 of them on the 4th line and that just doesnt float very well. All are to talented for the 4th.

So i think we could ship out Sammy for a 4th line Grinder and a Solid Reserve D-Man. Sammy is pretty much the only guy outta those 5 who i would part ways with.

Am i the only one who thinks we could ship out Sammy,Meech for Sutton,Jackman from the Islanders?

Maybe we can pull a Ducks move and convince Danny Markov to come back for the latter part of the season and playoffs.

And honestly, as much as I wouldn't mind getting rid of Sammy, I just don't think he has any trade value.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

i like our team better now as it is then with those players you added ...... antropov to me is not that good , leafs fans will find that out when sundin leaves toronto

[MacK_Attack 108]

i like our team better now as it is then with those players you added ...... antropov to me is not that good , leafs fans will find that out when sundin leaves toronto

Sundin and Antropov don't play together, only occasionally on the powerplay. In fact, Antropov's slowest streak of production this season came when he was on the same line as Mats.

Edited January 9, 2008 by MacK_Attack

[betterREDthandead 58]

Note that Lilja is on the last year of his contract. He's not trade-bait.

One of these days, NHL GMs will figure out the art of trading for cap space like they do in the NBA. Replacing a longer contract with an expiring one is how rebuilding teams rebuild.

Then again, I think Lilja is one of the best 3rd-pair defensemen in the league, so I wouldn't want to use him as trade bait.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

Sundin and Antropov don't play together, only occasionally on the powerplay. In fact, Antropov's slowest streak of production this season came when he was on the same line as Mats.

i been checking the leafs last games and until mid december i think i saw antropov register 1 assist , 14 of the 32 pts that i saw antropov get sundin is on the scoresheet ,thats almost half and who knows what other games he was on the ice but didnt register a point ...... 10 of the 14 points with mats were 5 on 5 , 8 ppl points

anyways i really dont think antropov is that good , besides this year which he'll obtain hes only gotten one 40+ point season .....my opinion is we dont need antropov , he.. well ... sucks

[puckbags 863]

Antro? No thanks!

Gill? Hmm - that one is worth pondering...Could replace Lilja, but can he fight

I'm thinking we could see guys like Fedorov, Prospal, & Ryder available for the right price @ the deadline.

Gimme a break..people around here can hate Lilly Pads all they want but Gill is a pilon, so is Sutton!! End of story!! Why would we want to replace Lilja, a guy who knows the system with two guys that are worse than him and don't know the system?

[miksteri 55]

Why not get Ossi Väänänen? He's playing in europe so he could had for cheap.

Assets:

Has prototypical NHL size. Loves to bang bodies. Moves the puck efficiently and is defensively responsible.

Flaws:

Needs more work on his coordination and lateral mobility. Has limited offensive upside. Must stay away from serious injury.

Career potential:

Defensive defenseman.

That way we wouldnt be wasting any picks or youth.

[Opie 308]

I don't think the wings are going to trade for a top 4 defenseman unless some one gets hurt before the trade deadline. IF they trade for a top 4 d- when will he play and who sits to let him play. That is unless you trade Lilja, Lebda, or Kronwall for him, but then that defeats the purpose to trade for depth. I think the wings will stay set on the D side of things, unless they run into a deal to good to pass up. Remember some of the young d-men played great last playoffs especially Meech, I should say for the minutes he was given, if he was out there 20-25 minutes the results may have varied.

Even a top 6 forward at this point in time (I can't believe I am about to type this) seems like overkill. The forward lines are starting to come together nicely, there are 5 forwards I see as untouchable in the top 6 Z_D_H, huds, flip. In those 5 you have a very talented young group of guys that could be the corner stone of this franchise for 5-7 years. If you trade away one of those for a rental player it is a way, way greater loss than Mattias for Bert. Some of you have talked (in hindsight which is 20/20) that you would rather still have Mattias instead of the whole thing that went down with Bert. Think about how you would feel if Flip or Huds got traded for a rental player, like Sundin, who then turned around the year after and played center to their wing.

That leaves the bottom 6, honestly the only value I see there is Franzen, he has top 6 potential, but is probably better suited to be a 3rd line guy. Sammy has no real trade value himself, he would need to be thrown in with a guy like Franzen, or a top prospect. Draper is untouchable. No one will want Maltby, Drake, Hartigan, or Ellis on their own accord, again they would have to be the throw in for a package deal.

However, most of Detroit's top prospects are on the D side of things and this is a D corp that has 2 guys that in a couple of years could leave very, very big shoes to fill. So the higher end D prospects (IE Kindl) should be off limits too.

I guess the point to all of this huge rambling is that the only trade I see is one involving Franzen and Sammy or a prospect or pick, for a depth forward, a guy that could fit the role Whitney played when he was in Detroit. But that is a high cost for a player that Franzen could turn into.

Not so sure I see the wings making a big splash in the trade market.

[eva unit zero 271]

Players who definitely won't be traded:

F: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, Hudler, Filppula, Cleary, Draper, Maltby, Drake, Downey

D: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Chelios

G: Hasek, Osgood

This leaves us to look at players who might be traded, and what we would need to replace them:

F: Samuelsson, Kopecky, Ellis, Franzen

D: Lilja, Lebda, Meech

Samuelsson can be replaced by a shutdown defensive forward or a top-six scoring forward. Franzen and Kopecky can be replaced by a big, physical forward who is defensively aware and has offensive upside. Ellis can be replaced by a defensive energy-line type forward.

Lilja can be replaced by a physical stay-at-home defenseman. Lebda and Meech can be replaced by a reliable two-way defenseman.

The problem being...

It's unlikely the Wings will be acquiring a player capable of replacing all of the ones they'd be trading away. Some of the players on the list (Ellis, Lilja, Lebda, Meech) can also be replaced by players currently in Grand Rapids. This will likely have to be done if the Wings trade off roster players to acquire roster players. More likely is that we see defensive depth added at the cost of a low-level prospect or pick.