The Best in History?

[IceMunkee 15]

I understand the topic of our tandem in Detroit has been beaten to a bloody pulp, but I am taking a differant approach. Could this possibly be the best tandem in the game? Past and present? Every game I watch in wonder to how the tender is handling the puck. Last game I was saying wow I cannot believe how Ozzie is playing out of his mind. I said the same thing tonight about Dom. This has been going forward since Dec begin and Dom begin to play like Ozzy. When at the begining of the season Ozzy played like Dom. I just don't think our netminding can be rivaled. Sure other teams have a great goaltender. Two great goalies though??? And to think we were arguing which should have the job!!! Which leads me to my question. With the rigorous playoff schedule of back and forth to the west coast, could it be possible to platoon the two right through the playoff's??? A differant way to go about buisness. What do you guys think???

[imisssergei 0]

No.

[IceMunkee 15]

I understand the topic of our tandem in Detroit has been beaten to a bloody pulp, but I am taking a differant approach. Could this possibly be the best tandem in the game? Past and present? Every game I watch in wonder to how the tender is handling the puck. Last game I was saying wow I cannot believe how Ozzie is playing out of his mind. I said the same thing tonight about Dom. This has been going forward since Dec begin and Dom begin to play like Ozzy. When at the begining of the season Ozzy played like Dom. I just don't think our netminding can be rivaled. Sure other teams have a great goaltender. Two great goalies though??? And to think we were arguing which should have the job!!! Which leads me to my question. With the rigorous playoff schedule of back and forth to the west coast, could it be possible to platoon the two right through the playoff's??? A differant way to go about buisness. What do you guys think???

sorry i did not realize that something similar had been posted

[IceMunkee 15]

No.

Educated response thanks for your input?

[betterREDthandead 58]

The question as to whether or not to platoon the two in the playoffs is one for another thread.

But are they the greatest tandem in history? You'd probably have to narrow down a definition of tandem. Marty Brodeur used to have some phenomenal seasons playing 70-75 games, so combining his stats and those of his extremely bored backup wouldn't make for a good comparison. And I suspect you'd have a tough time finding many situations where two goalies, neither of which were hurt, split so much time. So Dom and Ozzie (sounds like a crappy morning show on the radio) just might qualify as The Best Tandem Ever.

But they're missing one very important piece, which you have to have before you christen anything the greatest ever:

[IceMunkee 15]

The question as to whether or not to platoon the two in the playoffs is one for another thread.

But are they the greatest tandem in history? You'd probably have to narrow down a definition of tandem. Marty Brodeur used to have some phenomenal seasons playing 70-75 games, so combining his stats and those of his extremely bored backup wouldn't make for a good comparison. And I suspect you'd have a tough time finding many situations where two goalies, neither of which were hurt, split so much time. So Dom and Ozzie (sounds like a crappy morning show on the radio) just might qualify as The Best Tandem Ever.

But they're missing one very important piece, which you have to have before you christen anything the greatest ever:

Nice post! I really did not know the other thread was around until after. You would definitly have to narrow it down but for example the Nabakov/Toskala tandem was very impressive last year where Nabs got I think 62 starts and Toss the rest.

[Booster313 138]

I understand the topic of our tandem in Detroit has been beaten to a bloody pulp, but I am taking a differant approach. Could this possibly be the best tandem in the game? Past and present? Every game I watch in wonder to how the tender is handling the puck. Last game I was saying wow I cannot believe how Ozzie is playing out of his mind. I said the same thing tonight about Dom. This has been going forward since Dec begin and Dom begin to play like Ozzy. When at the begining of the season Ozzy played like Dom. I just don't think our netminding can be rivaled. Sure other teams have a great goaltender. Two great goalies though??? And to think we were arguing which should have the job!!! Which leads me to my question. With the rigorous playoff schedule of back and forth to the west coast, could it be possible to platoon the two right through the playoff's??? A differant way to go about buisness. What do you guys think???

Best tandem ever: without a doubt!

As far as splitting time in the playoffs, it could be done but I don't think it will happen unless one goalie starts playing poorly and the other comes in hot. As far as a rotation, it would be a first and interesting. I suspect that if one goalie is clearly outplaying the other like at the beginning of the season that goaltender will start the post season. If all things are equal however, Dom will be the starter for a number of reasons, one this is more than likely his last season to win a cup, Ozzie hopefully will have several more as a Wing. Second, Dom has bonuses riding on how many rounds he wins in the playoffs. If Dom lost the job by himself then fine but the Wings taking the opportunity from him to earn his money if he is playing like he should doesn't sound like a Mike Illitch move to me.

[BeeRYCE 2]

No, there were way too many other combos in the history to contend with.

Michel Larocque and Ken Dryden combined for some evil numbers in '76/77, it's hard to contend with the numbers they put up.

Larocque - 19-2-4, 2.09 GAA

Dryden - 41-6-8, 2.14 GAA

Numbers unheard of now, let alone back in those days.

[Bluedevils_13 0]

Richter&Vanbiesbrouck was a pretty good one..I'd say Belfour&Hasek, but Hasek kind of sucked than.

We do have a great tandem in net right now though thankfully.

[wingnut03 0]

didn't Sawchuk and Hall team up at least one year for Detroit?? Those are two pretty historic goaltenders.

[imisssergei 0]

Educated response thanks for your input?

Bottom line, Hasek has played well for all of what, 8 games? He was AWFUL for the first 3 months. He is on pace for mediocre stats, at best.

[MacK_Attack 108]

I guess this is pretty arbitrary depending on if you go by stats or by the calibre of the two goalies.

There was a brief period in 1998 when the Leafs had Curtis Joseph and Felix Potvin (before he became completely washed up).

I'd look at Bower/Sawchuk for the Leafs in the mid-60s, Smith/Resch for the Islanders during their Cup years.

Also:

1967/68 - Montreal Canadiens - Lorne "Gump" Worsley & Rogie Vachon

1971/72 - Toronto Maple Leafs - Jacques Plante & Bernie Parent

2001-2003 - San Jose Sharks - Evgeni Nabokov & Miikka Kiprusoff

2003-2007 - San Jose Sharks - Evgeni Nabokov & Vesa Toskala

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

I seem to recall that Osgood and Vernon combined to win the Jennings trophy in 97. No doubt if I have the year wrong I will be corrected.

This tandem is pretty good, though I think that we really have to get well past the trade deadline before we make any grand appraisals.

[interminded 1]

We're on the halfway mark of the season.

let's ask this question again in may.

The only thing we know right now is that we have two experienced goaltenders who right now, are on the top of their game and have contributed in a big way to the fact that the Red Wings are the best team in the NHL right now.

Everything else is not that important.

[toby91_ca 620]

Fuhr and Moog was pretty good too.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Bottom line, Hasek has played well for all of what, 8 games? He was AWFUL for the first 3 months. He is on pace for mediocre stats, at best.

I'd hardly call a GAA of 2.11 mediocre. And while save percentage is a better indication I think, remember when he was only saving about 85 - 87% of his shots this season? Probably was even worse to start. Well now it's at .900 flat, and that seems to be a a fair standard to see if a goalie is doing well. Hasek can certainly improve on that, but where he started this season struggling with save percentage, he's certainly picked up his play to make it better over time. Sure a few shutouts can certainly make the numbers improve more quickly, but it's not like you go from saving 85% - 90% of shots in a season overnight, the same with your GAA going from 2.75 to 2.00.

Edited January 9, 2008 by SouthernWingsFan

[union drone 0]

Bottom line, Hasek has played well for all of what, 8 games? He was AWFUL for the first 3 months. He is on pace for mediocre stats, at best.

...and Hasek played in maybe what, fewer than 8 games, during the stretch where he was 'awful'.

Date Opp Min W L OTL GA GAA SO Shots SV SV%

Oct. 03 ANH 65 1 0 0 2 1.85 0 15 13 .867

Oct. 06 CHI 65 0 0 1 3 2.77 0 27 24 .889

Oct. 08 EDM 60 1 0 0 2 2.00 0 20 18 .900

Oct. 12 CHI 59 0 1 0 3 3.04 0 29 26 .897

Oct. 15 ANH 58 0 1 0 5 5.21 0 28 23 .821

Oct. 20 PHO 60 1 0 0 2 2.01 0 21 19 .905

Oct. 24 VAN 60 1 0 0 2 2.00 0 15 13 .867

Nov. 09 CLS 60 1 0 0 1 1.00 0 16 15 .938

Nov. 13 STL 36 0 1 0 4 6.69 0 12 8 .667

Nov. 17 CHI 60 0 1 0 4 4.03 0 16 12 .750

Nov. 22 NSH 60 0 1 0 3 3.02 0 29 26 .897

Dec. 04 MON 60 1 0 0 1 1.00 0 16 15 .938

Dec. 07 MIN 60 1 0 0 0 0.00 T 19 19 1.000

Dec. 09 CAR 60 1 0 0 2 2.00 0 17 15 .882

Dec. 13 EDM 65 0 0 1 3 2.77 0 25 22 .880

Dec. 17 WAS 65 1 0 0 3 2.78 0 30 27 .900

Dec. 19 LA 60 1 0 0 2 2.00 0 20 18 .900

Dec. 22 MIN 60 1 0 0 1 1.00 0 19 18 .947

Dec. 27 COL 60 1 0 0 2 2.00 0 24 22 .917

Dec. 31 STL 59 0 1 0 1 1.01 0 22 21 .955

Jan. 05 DAL 60 1 0 0 0 0.00 T 22 22 1.000

Jan. 08 COL 60 1 0 0 0 0.00 T 19 19 1.000

Blue = awful

Black = mediocre to average

Red = Good to Excellent

Edit: made a correction to the color

Edited January 9, 2008 by union drone

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

didn't Sawchuk and Hall team up at least one year for Detroit?? Those are two pretty historic goaltenders.

Yeah, and I just posted that in another thread. Also Gump Lorsley and Rogie Vachon were another great tandem. How about Hasek and Cujo?

[eva unit zero 271]

Date Opp Min W L OTL GA GAA SO Shots SV SV%

Oct. 03 ANH 65 1 0 0 2 1.85 0 15 13 .867 (+0.46)

Oct. 06 CHI 65 0 0 1 3 2.77 0 27 24 .889 (-0.39)

Oct. 08 EDM 60 1 0 0 2 2.00 0 20 18 .900 (+0.40)

Oct. 12 CHI 59 0 1 0 3 3.04 0 29 26 .897 (-0.65)

Oct. 15 ANH 58 0 1 0 5 5.21 0 28 23 .821 (-3.02)

Oct. 20 PHO 60 1 0 0 2 2.01 0 21 19 .905 (+0.40)

Oct. 24 VAN 60 1 0 0 2 2.00 0 15 13 .867 (+0.31)

Nov. 09 CLS 60 1 0 0 1 1.00 0 16 15 .938 (+1.50)

Nov. 13 STL 36 0 1 0 4 6.69 0 12 8 .667 (-4.91)

Nov. 17 CHI 60 0 1 0 4 4.03 0 16 12 .750 (-2.03)

Nov. 22 NSH 60 0 1 0 3 3.02 0 29 26 .897 (-0.63)

Dec. 04 MON 60 1 0 0 1 1.00 0 16 15 .938 (+1.50)

Dec. 07 MIN 60 1 0 0 0 0.00 T 19 19 1.000 (+2.67)

Dec. 09 CAR 60 1 0 0 2 2.00 0 17 15 .882 (+0.35)

Dec. 13 EDM 65 0 0 1 3 2.77 0 25 22 .880 (-0.42)

Dec. 17 WAS 65 1 0 0 3 2.78 0 30 27 .900 (-0.38)

Dec. 19 LA 60 1 0 0 2 2.00 0 20 18 .900 (+0.40)

Dec. 22 MIN 60 1 0 0 1 1.00 0 19 18 .947 (+1.53)

Dec. 27 COL 60 1 0 0 2 2.00 0 24 22 .917 (+0.45)

Dec. 31 STL 59 0 1 0 1 1.01 0 22 21 .955 (+1.54)

Jan. 05 DAL 60 1 0 0 0 0.00 T 22 22 1.000 (+2.67)

Jan. 08 COL 60 1 0 0 0 0.00 T 19 19 1.000 (+2.67)

Blue = awful

Black = mediocre to average

Red = Good to Excellent

I've adjusted your list based on a simple mathematical formula; Multiply save percentage by 8/3; this is the ratio that yields a 'zero' for a GAA of 2.40 with a save percentage of .900, or effectively a goaltender who faces 24 shots per game and allows a goal for every 25 minutes played. This scale can be judged as follows:

More than 1.0 points in the negative=awful

Between -1.0 and 0=bad

Between 0 and +1.0=good

Better than +1.0=great

I've colored the game log to represent this new scale. Hasek comes out with:

7 'great' games

7 'good' games

5 'bad' games

3 'awful' games

The most encouraging thing in this regard is the fact that six of Hasek's seven 'great' games and three of his seven 'good' games have come in the past 11 games.

[donfishmaster 62]

OK, maybe true, but Dom has ALWAYS sucked donkey nuts the first part of the season, only to improve as the season goes along. Anyone following his career knows this is the only predictable part of his game!

Edited January 9, 2008 by donfishmaster

[toby91_ca 620]

I'd hardly call a GAA of 2.11 mediocre. And while save percentage is a better indication I think, remember when he was only saving about 85 - 87% of his shots this season? Probably was even worse to start. Well now it's at .900 flat, and that seems to be a a fair standard to see if a goalie is doing well. Hasek can certainly improve on that, but where he started this season struggling with save percentage, he's certainly picked up his play to make it better over time. Sure a few shutouts can certainly make the numbers improve more quickly, but it's not like you go from saving 85% - 90% of shots in a season overnight, the same with your GAA going from 2.75 to 2.00.

Currently, a sv % of .900, while not awful, doesn't get you in the top 30, so to say his stats are mediocre at this point would not be a stretch.

[T.Low 1,011]

I've adjusted your list based on a simple mathematical formula; Multiply save percentage by 8/3; this is the ratio that yields a 'zero' for a GAA of 2.40 with a save percentage of .900, or effectively a goaltender who faces 24 shots per game and allows a goal for every 25 minutes played. This scale can be judged as follows:

More than 1.0 points in the negative=

awful

Between -1.0 and 0=

bad

Between 0 and +1.0=

good

Better than +1.0=

great

I've colored the game log to represent this new scale. Hasek comes out with:

7 'great' games

7 'good' games

5 'bad' games

3 'awful' games

The most encouraging thing in this regard is the fact that six of Hasek's seven 'great' games and three of his seven 'good' games have come in the past 11 games.

Wow, impressive work. One thing that of course is not accounted for is the fact that all goals against the goalie are weighted with "equal blame": how much of it was the goalie's fault and how much of it was the fault of the defense. There are situations where the goalie simply cannot be blamed. One game Dom gets three goals against, but one was flukey adn two were kicked in By Lids and Rafalski. That probably comes up as a "poor" game for Hasek.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Can someone do that color code with Ozzy too?

[eva unit zero 271]

Wow, impressive work. One thing that of course is not accounted for is the fact that all goals against the goalie are weighted with "equal blame": how much of it was the goalie's fault and how much of it was the fault of the defense. There are situations where the goalie simply cannot be blamed. One game Dom gets three goals against, but one was flukey adn two were kicked in By Lids and Rafalski. That probably comes up as a "poor" game for Hasek.

Yes, it does judge all goals with equal weight. But you have to remember; all goaltenders have flukey goals get past them that they cannot prevent. Ultimately it evens out; if one goaltender is seeing more odd bounces end up behind him than most other guys, it's probably due to something that goaltender is doing. As for the game in question, If he gave up 3 goals it ended up in the 'below average' category.

Also, Vezina voters don't usually go back and look at the quality of goals scored against the contenders; therefore we can safely assume that goaltenders are held responsible for such situations just as much as any other goal.

[Opie 308]

Wow, impressive work. One thing that of course is not accounted for is the fact that all goals against the goalie are weighted with "equal blame": how much of it was the goalie's fault and how much of it was the fault of the defense. There are situations where the goalie simply cannot be blamed. One game Dom gets three goals against, but one was flukey adn two were kicked in By Lids and Rafalski Chelios. That probably comes up as a "poor" game for Hasek.

Fixed it, no charge!