Sundin will only waive no trade if 3 things happen

[betterREDthandead 58]

But for a mil or two more you can get Hossa. Who is A LOT younger and a better talent. If you are going to spend big you might as well go for the best player that is in all the rumors.

Younger yes. More good years ahead of him yes. Better talent, no, not really. And comparing the two based on salary only also assumes the trade value for Hossa is the same as Sundin as well.

[dallas27 7]

Younger yes. More good years ahead of him yes. Better talent, no, not really. And comparing the two based on salary only also assumes the trade value for Hossa is the same as Sundin as well.

And what is your argument for Sundin being a better talent? The way I see it the only thing Sundin has on Hossa is his size. Also, everyone is always bitching about scoring. Hossa is exactly that. No way on God's green earth does Sundin net more than Hossa in this system. Off topic but are you still in the navy (I think it was)?

[Echolalia 2,961]

If this is really true in that he is only willing to go to Detroit, this could be very good for us in that the Leafs would be in a position to take what they can get. Yes, they aren't going to do a straight up trade Sammy for Sundin, but if Mats refuses to go anywhere else, then the Wings aren't competing with anyone's prices, and if Toronto wants to get anything at all for him, they might be willing to settle for less, just to get something at all.

[DRW Dominance 255]

Wait a second. I'm confused. Does Anaheim have Edmonton's 1st pick or the other way around?

Edited February 20, 2008 by DRW Dominance

[Dabura 12,232]

Well....I've never heard anything that has suggested that Mats would only be willing to be traded to one team.

I believe he is willing to be traded to maybe four teams at max.

Of course, Sundin won't say anything publicly about being traded anywhere, so anything regarding a trade is purely speculation.

The rumours are that Anaheim is the closest to landing Sundin, for a package including Bobby Ryan, though the Leafs would like to expand on the deal so that they could land the Edmonton 1st rounder.

I also am very doubtful that Mats wants to sign a two-year deal with anybody. He's said that he will decide once the season is over if he wants to play next year. He's certainly not going to sign an extension in a city that he knows little about.

Voice of reason.

[betterREDthandead 58]

And what is your argument for Sundin being a better talent? The way I see it the only thing Sundin has on Hossa is his size. Also, everyone is always bitching about scoring. Hossa is exactly that. No way on God's green earth does Sundin net more than Hossa in this system. Off topic but are you still in the navy (I think it was)?

I think you'd be surprised if you compared Sundin's career production to Hossa's. Sundin is almost exactly a point-a-game player over his career, Hossa is not yet. Hossa's production is better in the years since the lockout, that's true, and to be expected since he's in his prime. But Sundin, despite his age, has been better than a point a game last two seasons.

P.S. - Yes, I still am.

[Izzy24 44]

If he signs the two year with us after season is over, It makes him a non rental

If he signs the two year with them after season is over, it makes him a rental

That's what i was getting at.

Oh, gotcha.

[MacK_Attack 108]

Wait a second. I'm confused. Does Anaheim have Edmonton's 1st pick or the other way around?

They have each other's 1st rounders.

Anaheim got Edmonton's 1st (as well as 2nd & 3rd) for Penner, while Edmonton got an addtional 1st for Pronger as the condition kicked in when the Ducks made the final.

[SnipeShow 0]

And what is your argument for Sundin being a better talent? The way I see it the only thing Sundin has on Hossa is his size. Also, everyone is always bitching about scoring. Hossa is exactly that. No way on God's green earth does Sundin net more than Hossa in this system. Off topic but are you still in the navy (I think it was)?

The only argument I could bring up about Hossa vs. Sundin would be last year. Hossa was non-existent during his 4 games in the post season. Sundin would have given a kidney to play a series of playoff hockey last Spring.

[Grittzkey 1]

Gotta call garbage on that one. The Leafs arent going to take a defenseman who keeps getting hurt and someone like Hudler in return for Sundin. Thats not getting nearly the value you could. And on the flip side, we wont trade Kronwall anyway.

I disagree.

Kronner is a high grade Dman, Hudler has alot of potential to him and in the right system could flurish. 1st rounder's are hella valuable.. and tbh i think WE are getting screwed in this deal.

If we are giving up that much, We need to get a youthful player we can lock up long term *hossa*

[dallas27 7]

I think you'd be surprised if you compared Sundin's career production to Hossa's. Sundin is almost exactly a point-a-game player over his career, Hossa is not yet. Hossa's production is better in the years since the lockout, that's true, and to be expected since he's in his prime. But Sundin, despite his age, has been better than a point a game last two seasons.

P.S. - Yes, I still am.

But he's close, ever since 02 he has been better than a point per game (except this year, but he is only a couple away), early on that's not the case. You are a die hard Tigers fan like myself. Think of it that way. Do you want a 37 year old shortstop or a 29 year old shortstop?

I don't mean to sound like Sundin sucks or anything, he can clearly help this team as can Hossa and either are welcomed additions. But you get Hossa locked up long-term and this team is set for a long time to come, I don't think the same can be said for Sundin.

P.S. Awesome,

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

The only argument I could bring up about Hossa vs. Sundin would be last year. Hossa was non-existent during his 4 games in the post season. Sundin would have given a kidney to play a series of playoff hockey last Spring.

If so, then Sundin should leave Toronto permanently, because he won't get any more playoff hockey playing there. If he wants to win the Cup he has to leave Toronto, and not just for one spring, but for good.

[dallas27 7]

The only argument I could bring up about Hossa vs. Sundin would be last year. Hossa was non-existent during his 4 games in the post season. Sundin would have given a kidney to play a series of playoff hockey last Spring.

The Red Wings have been almost non-existent in the post season the past 4 of 5 years.

[Grim 5]

Sundin would thrive in our puck-possession scheme. the extension is simply insurance... especially if the uncertain Leafs aren't serious about bringing him back or atleast making an offer. Believe it folks, Detroit is the only team on Sundin's list... its already team Sweden down here and its a simple three-hour drive from his family and home. Cliff Fletcher is openly leaking the details cuz there really are no other suitable bidders.

The only way this deal gets kiboshed is if Detroit is forced to overspend on D instead...

[ShanahanMan 473]

The Red Wings have been almost non-existent in the post season the past 4 of 5 years.

just got what you meant. I thought you were talking about the playoffs for a second, heh.

Edited February 20, 2008 by ShanahanMan

[ShanahanMan 473]

Sundin and Stuart to me would be the best case scenario for our team. I highly doubt we'll get both though.......got my fingers crossed for one.

[dallas27 7]

*edit* Didn't see your other post.

Edited February 20, 2008 by dallas27

[SnipeShow 0]

The Red Wings have been almost non-existent in the post season the past 4 of 5 years.

Umm... well I guess we are all entitled to our opinion. I would rather describe it as snake bitten or that we have had dissappointing efforts from some of our guys (Hatcher, Legace, etc.). Great players that didn't live up to their potential. But I ask you this - if we have been "non-existent" for the past 4 of 5 years, why add someone who will ensure this "non-existent" nature? Why not try a guy who will bring it every game come play offs for a crack at finally getting a legitimate chance at the cup? Hossa was playing on a 3rd seeded team in Atlanta last season and I personally thought they might go far. I had been under the impression that 2nd or 3rd round would be realistic for them last year. Hossa was a big factor they never won a game, he never really played his game. We all know Mats is a gamer and whether he is 37 or not, I'm sure he will bring more enthusiasm and heart to this club (exactly what we need come playoff time) than Marian Hossa.

Edited February 20, 2008 by SnipeShow

[MacK_Attack 108]

its already team Sweden down here and its a simple three-hour drive from his family and home

Sundin doesn't have any family in Canada. He's not married and doesn't have any kids.

[VM1138 1,921]

I wish Holland would sit down and talk contracts with all our guys and just tell them what he has planned. Wouldn't it be amazing if he could swing Hossa, Sundin, and Stuart (ala 2002), and fit their salaries in with guarantees of future salaries for our current players? Highly unlikely, but it would be pretty damn cool.

I'd rather have Hossan than Sundin, but I'll take Sundin as my second choice.

[HenryMalredo 2]

I wish Holland would sit down and talk contracts with all our guys and just tell them what he has planned. Wouldn't it be amazing if he could swing Hossa, Sundin, and Stuart (ala 2002), and fit their salaries in with guarantees of future salaries for our current players? Highly unlikely, but it would be pretty damn cool.

Not even remotely possible.

[dallas27 7]

Umm... well I guess we are all entitled to our opinion. I would rather describe it as snake bitten or that we have had dissappointing efforts from some of our guys (Hatcher, Legace, etc.). Great players that didn't live up to their potential.

That doesn't change the fact that the bowed out early. That's all that matters in the end. This is a team game right?

But I ask you this - if we have been "non-existent" for the past 4 of 5 years, why add someone who will ensure this "non-existent" nature? Why not try a guy who will bring it every game come play offs for a chance at finally getting a legitimate chance at the cup?

And how can you ensure that Hossa will be non-existent on this team? How can you ensure that Sundin will thrive? You can't. You go by talent. And imo Hossa has more.

Hossa was playing on a 3rd seeded team in Atlanta last season and I personally thought they might go far. I had been under the impression that 2nd or 3rd round would be realistic for them last year. Hossa was a big factor they never won a game, he never really played his game. We all know Mats is a gamer and whether he is 37 or not, I'm sure he will bring more enthusiasm and heart to this club (exactly what we need come playoff time) than Marian Hossa.

Hossa on the Thrashers and Hossa on the Wings would be two different things and the same goes for Sundin. Sundin historically does well in the playoffs, a point per game pretty much, but he hasn't been there in 4-5 years. There is no way you can deny his hunger and what have you but that does not equate to him being a monster in the playoffs.

[VM1138 1,921]

I'm not really sure on all the details on contracts, but how much room does Detroit have to play with for this season alone?

[SnipeShow 0]

That doesn't change the fact that the bowed out early. That's all that matters in the end. This is a team game right? And how can you ensure that Hossa will be non-existent on this team? How can you ensure that Sundin will thrive? You can't. You go by talent. And imo Hossa has more. Hossa on the Thrashers and Hossa on the Wings would be two different things and the same goes for Sundin. Sundin historically does well in the playoffs, a point per game pretty much, but he hasn't been there in 4-5 years. There is no way you can deny his hunger and what have you but that does not equate to him being a monster in the playoffs.

Yeah those are all fair arguments. I was just kind of playing devils advocate, even though I truly do want Sundin more, I still would love to see Hossa play for Motown too. I was just kind of under the impression that people on this site wanted players who were more closely fitted to Mats' mould rather than Marian's (Solid skilled forward who can hold his own in the corners etc. VS. another "soft" European forward) - and yes I am aware that they are both European but who is stronger on the boards or going hard to the net, you know what I mean?

[northstar 0]

Sundin would thrive in our puck-possession scheme. the extension is simply insurance... especially if the uncertain Leafs aren't serious about bringing him back or atleast making an offer. Believe it folks, Detroit is the only team on Sundin's list... its already team Sweden down here and its a simple three-hour drive from his family and home. Cliff Fletcher is openly leaking the details cuz there really are no other suitable bidders.

The only way this deal gets kiboshed is if Detroit is forced to overspend on D instead...

Sounds good to me, but what makes you so certain its only Detroit? I personally feel that the sticking point is that Holland would want to have a 1-2 year extension with Detroit locked-up as part of the trade, and that is something Sundin won't probably do.

I also think in the back of my mind that most likely Detroit will trade with Tampa Bay for Vinny Prospal and with the KIngs for Stuart. Hossa will go to some team that spends the moon and with Forsberg out of the picture now that could be a lot of teams, but not Detroit. Also, I don't think Sundin will go anywhere.......he will stay in Toronto.