The Wings are Old and Slow

[calfan 0]

Now that I have your attention, there's an interesting little fact I noticed today. Of the 10 youngest teams in the NHL, 7 are not in the playoffs. They happen to be the youngest 7, followed by Mtl, Pitt and NYR. Of the 10 oldest teams in the NHL, 8 are in the playoffs. The 2 out of the playoffs are the 4th and 5th oldest in the league. Two of the leading favorites, Det and Ana, are 1-2 in terms of age.

Now, let's make it clear there is only 5 yrs difference from youngest to oldest and just because the Wings are the oldest, it doesn't mean they don't have young players. And given their avg age is 31.8 yrs, they are hardly old.

So clearly (based only on my limited sample of this year) age and experience are key factors to making the playoffs. Are they key factors to winning the Cup? Detroit is the consensus winner based on the betting line. No one in their right mind would suggest the Ducks don't have an excellent chance to repeat. However, lots of "experts" like the youth in the East and Mtl, Pitt and NYR also get serious consideration as Cup winners this year. Of course it doesn't hurt that these same experts assume the Western teams are going to beat each other up badly in the first 3 rounds.

Personally I would take Lidstrom over any of his younger challengers on d. Hasek, on the other hand, is a disaster waiting to happen IMO. But with age comes experience, calmness and determination. Wiley veterans can make a huge difference to a team.

On the other hand, younger players recover better and the long playoff grind doesn't affect them as much as older players. They can also lift older players to greater heights with their youthful enthusiasm. Many teams have that all rookie energy line they can use to build the big MO. The Oilers dynasty consisted of a bunch of young players running all around everyone on the ice.

So, which will win out, age and experience or youth and energy?

By the way, the perfect blend of both - San Jose sits right smack in the middle of the pack.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Nice post calfan.

I hope the Wings prove these media clowns wrong. Guys like Pierre McGuire and Grapes are nothing more than a bunch of talking heads that have no idea what's coming out of their mouth's half of the time. They site the same song and dance every year: "Too old, too soft, beats up on the division...".

...and on a somewhat related note, I hope Calgary upsets San Jose quickly. I'm so tired of everybody calling them to win everything. People who call the Wings overrated apparently haven't watched the Sharks play. Joe Thornton, Brian Campbell, and Evgeni Nabokov do NOT make a Stanley Cup. These media losers seem to forget that the majority of that team is mostly a bunch of overpaid, underachievers (see: Patrick Marleau).

This is such a strange time of year, so I guess anything can happen.

Edited April 8, 2008 by Kp-Wings

[calfan 0]

Nice post calfan.

I hope the Wings prove these media clowns wrong. Guys like Pierre McGuire and Grapes are nothing more than a bunch of talking heads that have no idea what's coming out of their mouth's half of the time. They site the same song and dance every year: "Too old, too soft, beats up on the division...".

...and on a somewhat related note, I hope Calgary upsets San Jose quickly. I'm so tired of everybody calling them to win everything. People who call the Wings overrated apparently haven't watched the Sharks play. Joe Thornton, Brian Campbell, and Evgeni Nabokov do NOT make a Stanley Cup. These media losers seem to forget that the majority of that team is mostly a bunch of overpaid, underachievers (see: Patrick Marleau).

This is such a strange time of year, so I guess anything can happen.

Calgary may beat the Sharks, but it won't be quick. The Sharks were the one team I didn't want to play. The Flames won the season series 3-1, but 2 of those games they were badly outplayed and Kipper stole the wins for them.

I like the Wings chances, but while its not a popular opinion on this site, I still have questions about Datsyuk's and Zetterberg's ability to win the big games (same type of questions that dog Thornton). And I know its weird to think this of the Jennings winning team, but the biggest questions for the Wings are in goal.

But as you said, playoffs is a crapshoot and the odds change on a nightly basis. Stay healthy, get key goals, limit shots against - the keys to winning for every team.

[12Newf 0]

i watched tsn's playoff special and they all but counted the wings out. one guy even suggested the preds threw the final game so they could play us! they think were too banged up and our goaltending is a disaster. every single one of the tsn analysts chose sharks-pens for the final. it was soo strange to have them talk for an hour and a half and they spent like 5 minutes on the wings. in their fantasy draft they took all sharks and penguins and like 4-5 wings. i felt like the wings were an underdog against the predators even. funny, presidents trophy winners arent even mentioned in the contenders hardly!

[betterREDthandead 58]

And I know its weird to think this of the Jennings winning team, but the biggest questions for the Wings are in goal.

You think? I think it's the scoring. Actually I think all the problems you mentioned are exactly the ones I'm least concerned about. I'm more worried about the secondary scoring (been a question all year, really) and the health of the defense, which is only now getting to be full strength again.

[awingsincebirth 0]

i watched tsn's playoff special and they all but counted the wings out. one guy even suggested the preds threw the final game so they could play us! they think were too banged up and our goaltending is a disaster. every single one of the tsn analysts chose sharks-pens for the final. it was soo strange to have them talk for an hour and a half and they spent like 5 minutes on the wings. in their fantasy draft they took all sharks and penguins and like 4-5 wings. i felt like the wings were an underdog against the predators even. funny, presidents trophy winners arent even mentioned in the contenders hardly!

Ya, I did not enjoy watching that Playoff Preview at all. The Wings are getting no love at all, and that is fine by me. We already know that Babs is harping on the "Wings as Underdogs" point to really try and get the boys fired up.

I posted this somewhere last night, but I really hated how they didn't mention Datsyuk, Z, Cleary, Franz, Kronwall. This team has a bunch of great players in or before their prime. Also, there was absolutely no mention of our team defense which is one of greatest in recent history. Only time will tell, but I think this team has a real good shot.

I really look forward to all those ass-clowns stumbling on their words when the Wings outdo the Ducks, or the Sharks again.

[egroen 384]

Every playoff team is concerned about secondary scoring. Every single one. That's parity.

The Wings secondary scoring is not what it was when our payroll was over $60 million, but it is a heck of a lot better than pretty much every other team. The Wings have 6 players with 20 or more goals and a 7th with 19... that is great for the salary cap era.

Lids, Rafalski and Kronwall also comprise so much of our offense, more so than any other team asides from Anaheim... and if you listen to Anaheim fans they are scared to death about secondary scoring... even since Teemu has returned.

So sure, I am concerned about secondary scoring, but I think that is going to be an issue every single year under the salary cap, for every team... and comparitively, I am very happy with how the Wings are looking.

[daniel1 32]

The analysts and pundits get WAY to caught up in this "average age" stat. It's not so much the age as it the player's conditioning, ability and hockey sense that determines their effectiveness. Simply pointing to someone's age and using that to gauge their worth is ridiculous. Anyone who has a roster spot at this time of year has shown their coaching staff that they are the best player in the organization (regardless of age) for that spot. If Cheli wasn't cutting it or able to defend anymore, his spot would have gone to Meech or Quincey long before the playoffs started. If Drake or Lidstrom (2 of our "older" players) had nothing left to offer, they would have been replaced too. Science, medical knowledge, training/conditioning techniques and nutrition have all taken huge leaps forward which has resulted in increasing the length of time pro athletes can stay at the top of their game and remain competitive. I think it's time we stopped using outdated "benchmarks" to judge when a player has become "old". I believe (barring injury) that your body doesn't get old unless you let it do so up to a certain point. My neighbor is 80 and he still water-skis and hikes trails at a pace many younger men would have trouble keeping up with.

Besides, average age is achieved by totaling up all the players ages and dividing by the number of players; this means that one or two players (Cheli, Dom, Drake) that are well beyond the average of the rest of the team can drastically skew the results. We don't have an old team, we have a fairly young team with a couple of very old players, lol. Out of the 6 player on our top 2 lines, only 1 player is over 30! We also boast a great top 4 D with only 1 player being older than 34 too. Yes, some of our "role" players are well seasoned, but they are effective because we don't ask them to play 20 minutes a night. Cheli, Drake, Mac, Downey, and Malts are getting up there but they're not being asked to log 20 minutes a night either so it's not like they're overused. I think we'll see a shorter bench from Babs in these playoffs than we have in the last few due to the injuries and inexperienced guys we could have on the fourth line (Abby, Hartigan, Helm, Hudler, Meech if he plays up).

[Superman54 91]

I love TSN, as they support Hockey soo much, but that was just pathetic the way they handled the Wings last night. All though it is nice that we are flying under the radar, I just hope Wings can shut up all those non believers (Pierre) and beat them San Jose or Anahiem Ducks. Thank god for James Dutchie who predicted NY Rangers and Wings to meet in the finals at the begging, and stick with it. At least he doesn't under estimate the Wings's power. If we can get consistent goaltending from Hasek, then I believe we have the best team there is.

[calfan 0]

You think? I think it's the scoring. Actually I think all the problems you mentioned are exactly the ones I'm least concerned about. I'm more worried about the secondary scoring (been a question all year, really) and the health of the defense, which is only now getting to be full strength again.

I think they'll be fine putting the goals in the net and I'm not that worried about secondary scoring except as to whether it can make up for my belief that there will be a drop-off in scoring from the top guys. And I'm not saying goaltending is a weakness, its just a question for me. If I had doubt about the team's ability to compete, it would be on the backend. Can Hasek keep it together, stay healthy and keep the GAA to 2 or less? I don't know. I do know he's going to see a lot of traffic and he's going to get snowed and bumped and everything else to get him off his game. No different than what every other goalie is going to see, but the other goalies aren't his age and known for his volatility.

As for injuries, that's a big crapshoot in any case. You know there will be some, but who and how bad are the things that will make or break your team. I think the Wings can survive without one of their top 3 forwards. No such chance if Lidstrom goes down.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

You think? I think it's the scoring. Actually I think all the problems you mentioned are exactly the ones I'm least concerned about. I'm more worried about the secondary scoring (been a question all year, really) and the health of the defense, which is only now getting to be full strength again.

Ditto. If anything it's the health and secondary scoring that concerns me. I think in goal the Wings are perfectly fine. It's never really been their problem in the past and I don't think that will be the case now either.

I just read an article from the Detroit News about how the Wings aren't getting any respect.

http://www.redwingsonline.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../804080344/1128

It mentions the TSN analysts as well..

[TheWestWing 71]

one guy even suggested the preds threw the final game so they could play us!

Actually, Babs inferred such in the Freep:

Mike Babcock: It was obvious the Predators wanted to play the Wings

April 5, 2008

Speaking Saturday about the Red Wings' first-round opponent, Nashville, Mike Babcock didn't sound too impressed with how the Predators played the night before.

Nashville lost, 3-1, at Chicago, clinching the eighth spot in the Western Conference and a date with the Wings, against whom Nashville went 3-3-2 during the regular season.

Had the Predators won, they would have had to wait until Calgary plays Vancouver tonight to find out their destiny. A Calgary loss would have put the Predators in seventh, opposite San Jose - against whom they went 0-4 in the regular season.

"It was pretty obvious last night they’d chosen to play us," Babcock said. "I watched the game, so it was apparent to me. But that’s good for us, too, we don’t have to travel very far. We look forward to having them – we’ve had a good rivalry with them in the last three years, so I imagine this will be a good one."

[Reds4Life 51]

Cherry and co. are band of bitter not-so-good "experts". Man I hate that McGuire guy.

Anyways, I think we have better team than last year and if our guys stay healthy, I think we have a good chance to win it all. All that "OldSoftEuros, who do not have character and guts"crap will finally end. For a while..

[Barrie 900]

I didn't even bother watching the TSN or Sportsnet playoff analysis. They're so Canadian biast and anti-Red Wings it makes me :puke:

I think those shows are a joke anyway, and it's a waste of tv time. Any knowledgable hockey fan can make picks as good as their's. It's all speculation and guesses anyway.

I think the Wings are getting enough negative press and are being overlooked enough to make them mad, and have more insentive to win the Cup. We'll come out flying....

[DaKineMaui 8]

Every playoff team is concerned about secondary scoring. Every single one. That's parity.

The Wings secondary scoring is not what it was when our payroll was over $60 million, but it is a heck of a lot better than pretty much every other team. The Wings have 6 players with 20 or more goals and a 7th with 19... that is great for the salary cap era.

Lids, Rafalski and Kronwall also comprise so much of our offense, more so than any other team asides from Anaheim... and if you listen to Anaheim fans they are scared to death about secondary scoring... even since Teemu has returned.

So sure, I am concerned about secondary scoring, but I think that is going to be an issue every single year under the salary cap, for every team... and comparitively, I am very happy with how the Wings are looking.

Good post. Good reality check ^^up there^^. :::::pause, ^reread^:::::

I'm very old and stupid, but was it the Detroit Red Wings who centered a guy named Larionov on their 4th (fourth) line for quite some time? Your post is correct. No NHL team is ever gonna have that luxury again. Fer chrissakes folks! TheCaptainSteveYzerman was considered 'secondary scoring' for awhile. We were spoiled.

(I think payroll was actually closer to 80 million.)

[adtthosa 5]

It's funny how we can win the President's Trophy and still get little respect. Some people are even still trying to push the whole "Wings are too soft" angle, which I find hilarious. I have full confidence in our team, with the only question mark being Hasek. He has been horribly inconsistant this year, but he tends to step it up in the playoffs so we'll have to see.

But anyways, I should probably answer the original question. I think we have a great combination of age and experience/youth and energy. The average age of our team is a stupid stat to look at, because we really don't have that old of a team. We've got plenty of experience in the back half of our lineup and plenty of youth in the front half, which is exactly the way it should be if you ask me.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Take out Hasek and Chelios and I'd like to see what our average age is. Any volunteers?

[Shaman 713]

please note, the team goes from 31.8 to just above 30 if you just take out Hasek and Chelios...Age really isnt as much as a factor, because just as much does a young kid recover as a kid is more likely to try to do too much and get hurt.

[redwings56 1]

they won the Presidents trophy again and usually it is because they "play in a weak division" BUT not THIS YEAR!!!! and they still aren't giving any respect to the European style. Not many people talk about Datsyuk's 2 way play, and does anybody see that he is NOT a soft player. He throws the shoulder's and hits when he is pissed just like Malkin does - but MALKIN has more size that he is put under this light that says he is one of the only Russians (Ovechkin) to battle in the corner's BLA BLA BLA. Datsyuk 90% time comes out with the puck FROM CORNERS. I know he will prove many hockey fans wrong and win the Conn Smythe.

[VM1138 1,921]

This is an old story in every single sport. THe experts always pick the youth, yet the youth hardly EVER go anywhere until they are OLD. It's just the cultural obsession with youth. Age has really very little to do with professional sports, except maybe when injuries are involved. It's all about HOW the people play. I doubt anyone would argue the 46 year old Chelios is worse than most of the defenseman, especially the young ones, in the league, performance-wise.

[Guest nutz2u]

Nice post calfan.

I hope the Wings prove these media clowns wrong. Guys like Pierre McGuire and Grapes are nothing more than a bunch of talking heads that have no idea what's coming out of their mouth's half of the time. They site the same song and dance every year: "Too old, too soft, beats up on the division...".

...and on a somewhat related note, I hope Calgary upsets San Jose quickly. I'm so tired of everybody calling them to win everything. People who call the Wings overrated apparently haven't watched the Sharks play. Joe Thornton, Brian Campbell, and Evgeni Nabokov do NOT make a Stanley Cup. These media losers seem to forget that the majority of that team is mostly a bunch of overpaid, underachievers (see: Patrick Marleau).

This is such a strange time of year, so I guess anything can happen.

Which head is talking, upper or lower?