Penguins franchise deserves no credit

[lets go pavel 2]

why in the hell are we arguing about mario lemieux? last i checked he's not playing on saturday ... we may as well argue about whether little caesars makes good pizza ...

[Icteria virens 11]

f***face,

My left ass cheek has forgotten more about hockey than you'll ever know.

*****.

EDIT::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

On a nicer note: Please. As mentioned, Lemux is the finest hockey player I've ever watched. A lot. But do your own research OK?

He quit the game when he didn;t like the way they were calling it. Look. It. Up.

My despise toward him has NOTHING to do with any cancer he has suffered.

my!!! what a little ball of sunshine you are. You're obviously not the person you portray yourself to be, all chill-out Hawaiian and stuff.

And considering you left ass cheek has forgot so much about hockey makes sense to me as that is where brain is located. Right on.

singning your post "*****" is quite appropriate, was that your right or left ass cheek talking?

Mahalo

Edited May 22, 2008 by Icteria virens

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

It was the primary reason he cited in 1997, and it had more to do with the clutching and grabbing than him not dominating the league, as he obviously had less trouble scoring points than anyone else.

I am not saying Dakine is right to not respect Lemieux, but he is right on that a major reason Lemieux retired in 1997 is the officiating.

I still disagree.

Yes Lemieux bitched about the league and the clutching and grabbing, but to say the major reason he retired in 97 was the officiating is a gross misrepresentation.

Unless I missed some quote from him where he said something to the effect of "I'm retiring primarily because of the poor officiating and not because my back hurts so bad I have to have someone else tie my skates and that I'm worn out from a career plagued by injuries."

The guy played much of his career in constant pain. And I'm not talking about the bumps and bruises all hockey players have. If there's a major reason he retired in 1997 it was the chronic back problems.

edited for grammar.

Edited May 22, 2008 by haroldsnepsts

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

I still disagree.

Yes Lemieux bitched about the league and the clutching and grabbing, but to say the major reason he retired in 97 was the officiating is a gross misrepresentation.

Unless I missed some quote from him where he said something to the effect of "I'm retiring primarily because of the poor officiating and not because my back hurts so bad I have to have someone else tie my skates and that I'm worn out from a career plagued by injuries."

The guy played much of his career in constant pain. And I'm not talking about the bumps and bruises all hockey players have. If there's a major reason he retired in 1997 it was the chronic back problems.

edited for grammar.

Bingo

[TheWellHungarian 0]

& Cancer, Radiation & Chemo is not a walk in the park and literally destroys bone health.

Bingo

[vladdy16 2,154]

I have to back up DaKineMaui on this one, if not the manner in which it was expressed. The main reason cited in the media when Mario retired the first time was he didn't like the way the game was played. A Google search of his initial retirement mentions this regularly, but a Pittsburgh paper archive search for this topic doesn't return any results whatsoever. Interesting.

While I don't agree that it made me lose all respect for him, DKM has every right to feel the way he does, just as Lemiuex has every right to retire for whatever reason he sees fit, be it injuries, illness, petulance, whatever, but it just doesn't look good for an icon of the game to make the remarks he did under those circumstances. Let's not cannonize Mario before his time, shall we?

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I have to back up DaKineMaui on this one, if not the manner in which it was expressed. The main reason cited in the media when Mario retired the first time was he didn't like the way the game was played. A Google search of his initial retirement mentions this regularly, but a Pittsburgh paper archive search for this topic doesn't return any results whatsoever. Interesting.

While I don't agree that it made me lose all respect for him, DKM has every right to feel the way he does, just as Lemiuex has every right to retire for whatever reason he sees fit, be it injuries, illness, petulance, whatever, but it just doesn't look good for an icon of the game to make the remarks he did under those circumstances. Let's not cannonize Mario before his time, shall we?

He has absolutely every right to feel the way he does. But his and Eva's characterization of the retirement completely contradicts my memory of the event and the information that's out there, which is that he was retiring due to all his health problems, and took a few parting shots at the league during that time. He was also dead on about the condition of the game, and it was probably better to hear it from a dominant player than one who was struggling, so it didn't just sound like sour grapes.

And honestly I never was even much of a Lemieux fan. Like with Gretzky (though I hated Lemeiux less), I respected that he was a great player, but was never really a fan. So to me it's not about cannonizing him, but it's also not about misrepresenting the circumstances of his retirement.

A google issue on his retirement regularly mentions all his health problems too, much moreso than him talking about the officiating. It's revisionist history, and I can only guess it's because people have some beef with Lemieux and his place in hockey history. It would be like a Pens fan saying Yzerman retired because Babcock didn't give him the ice time he wanted.

How can anyone possibly look at the chronic back problems, the multiple surgeries, the bone infection, the cancer, the hip problems, and say with a straight face that the MAIN reason he retired in 97 was the officiating? I don't get it. I feel like people are combining his criticism of the league over the years with his retirement decision.

Edited May 22, 2008 by haroldsnepsts

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

Bottom line?

If you wanna take shots at the Penguins..take your shots at the current players....

Lemieux, like Yzerman...is an icon for our fans...taking a dump on him will only exacerbate things...

Lets stick to talking hockey

[vladdy16 2,154]

harold, you said it yourself - revisionist history. Not one article I located was from 1997 - they were all 2006 and after. People tend to be kinder a few years down the road. My memory of him retiring didn't mention health issues other than the health of the league. It's easy to say now, knowing what we know, that it was health, but there's nothing to back it up that I can find from the original retirement. And I went to Pittsburgh papers. Just trying to be fair.

And I'm not picking on Mario, just being objective. Maybe I only remember that part because I thought it was kind of punky to quit the league because he didn't like it, but I can't find anything to prove it either way.

And Mario's not fit to lace Yzerman's skates!

[Dr Rosenrosen 0]

Yzerman, known for rebounding from serious injuries, said his knee and other nagging aches and pains kept him from suiting up for another season.

"I knew my role over time was decreasing, and I was comfortable with that," he said. "But what I don't want to be is out there and not doing things that I want to do. ... I question my own ability to be effective out there."

What a sissy!

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

harold, you said it yourself - revisionist history. Not one article I located was from 1997 - they were all 2006 and after. People tend to be kinder a few years down the road. My memory of him retiring didn't mention health issues other than the health of the league. It's easy to say now, knowing what we know, that it was health, but there's nothing to back it up that I can find from the original retirement. And I went to Pittsburgh papers. Just trying to be fair.

And I'm not picking on Mario, just being objective. Maybe I only remember that part because I thought it was kind of punky to quit the league because he didn't like it, but I can't find anything to prove it either way.

And Mario's not fit to lace Yzerman's skates!

Mario literally wasn't fit to lace Stevie's skates. He couldn't even tie up his own because of his back.

My memory of his retirement was 90% health reasons. His long list of injuries were well known, even at that time. Maybe not the details about him not being able to lace his skates, but the herniated disk, back surgeries, bone infection, and cancer were all well documented. If memory serves, the last season he was hardly even practicing so he could save his back for the games.

And honestly that's why I was never a big fan of either of those guys. They had the numbers and were great players, but Stevie was the man. Lemieux had a number of injuries, but you also gotta wonder what Stevie's career would've been like had he not slammed into that goalpost in '87.

[imisssergei 0]

On the Mario issue, something that hasn't been publicized much. After his most recent retirement he began to experience side effects from the meds he was taking to fight his cancer. I'm not sure how common it is, but he now basically has the same heart condition that Fischer suffers from.

[DaKineMaui 8]

Doesn't make Dakine right to not respect Mario; that is a matter of opinion. but his assessment that Lemieux quit because he didn't like the officiating is spot on.

I'm writing this down in my diary. "Eva Unit Zero agreed with me today."

As far as my swearing and name-calling from a few posts back I apologize (It's the whole 5 day-layoff thing I think?). BUT, if we page back a few in this thread, when Mario was called heroic - that is the point I've have grown weary of over the years. Tired of it.

1 - He is the best hockey player I've ever watched.

2 - Father-in-law lived in Pittsburgh during their Cup wins......me and the wife visited from Detroit maybe 2x/mo. Dad-in-law was one of the 1st people I knew who actually had the NHL package. We watched choke Pens games and he would praise and praise Mario. Then it happened. The guy quit. Then it was rant rant rant from her dad. He was pissed. I read the articles. I heard more rants from Dad's friends. I am not making this s*** up is all, and again, I am tired of hearing about what a great guy this person is. He is, and always was, in it for #1. (Well #66) Of COURSE I know about the cancer (HEY! matter of fact? Mother-in-law died of pancreatic cancer in our house about 5 years ago to the day - I understand sickness.) His illness and his quitting were 2 completely unrelated events.

3 - I hope all you Pens fans enjoy a great Finals. Maybe we go 3 OTs into game 7.

aloha

(And no - I've never portrayed myself as laid back)

[Chairman Maouth 97]

I'm with most of the posters on this thread. This is a ludicrous topic. It sounds more to me like the original poster simply hates the Penguins. I wonder if he said anything like that....

I hate the Penguins.