Sammy?

[Sergeiwasmyfav 0]

In his defense on the breakaway, it was with an inexperienced rookie who was confused on either to speed up or slow down. The Stars defenseman took advantage of Helm's lack of decision-making and caught up past Helm and to Samuelsson, and hooked Samuelsson/got enough of his body to force him to make a bad shot.

ThreeRiversFan, every team (or at least in here) seems to have the need to be ridiculously over-anal about certain players to the point of where you just want to tell people to shut the f**k up since we've heard the same song and dance about the certainly player 600-700 times. It was Curtis Joseph a few years ago, it was Robert Lang and/or Andreas Lilja last year, this year it was Lilja to a small degree, but Samuelsson is king this year.

Samuelsson's game is pretty accurately described by betterREDthandead, so I won't reiterate. And like many portrayals of whipping boys, they are often greatly overstated and overdramatized.

Personally I'm neutral on him. Far from my favorite but he doesn't deserve some of the treatment that he gets on here, as it gets more annoying and repetitive than those tests from the local Emergency Broadcast System.

I completely agree SWF. Sammy is far from great, and I have posted in other threads why he does frustrate me to no end at times, but he is not as awful as some on here make him out to be. And speaking of people shooting pucks into opposing players skates while on the point, Rafalski does his fair share of that as well, although probably not as often as Sammy. I just never understood this whole season how everyone seems to see Sammy do this so much (which he does, not denying that) but then are oblivious to the number of times Rafalski also does it.

[egroen 384]

It was Curtis Joseph a few years ago, it was Robert Lang and/or Andreas Lilja last year, this year it was Lilja to a small degree, but Samuelsson is king this year.

How could you not mention Boyd Devereaux???

[BlueMonk 102]

There are other things about Samuelsson that make him hard to like. Regardless of how hard he may actually working out there, he - like Lang when he played here - really looks like he isn't even trying very hard. Then there are the lame attempts at "mixing it up" with the other team, which usually involves silly posturing and playing patty-cake with an opposing defenseman in a scrum. He just doesn't have that one redeeming quality that fans can latch on to.

[eva unit zero 271]

I think a lot of frustration comes not only from him consistently missing his shots and terrible decision making, but frustration with Babcock for giving him such crucial playing time.

He's a 3rd liner when he's on a hot streak, and for the longest time he was on the Top 2 lines consistently.

Sammy's offensive numbers, in terms of points per game, make him a top six forward in the NHL. I wouldn't call him one of Detroit's six best, but he is a much better player than you seem to feel. You need to learn to deal with the fact that to be a top-six forward, you don't have to be a 25+ goal, 70+ point player who is not a liability defensively. That's what we call a FIRST LINER, which Sammy is not.

Sammy is defensively responsible, and pitches in a decent amount of offense. He probably shoots all the damn time for the same reason he's on the PP point to begin with; Babcock likes his shot, and wants him to use it. Sammy has always seemed like a very coachable player, and if the coaches felt he should stop shooting and asked him to, he would.

He's a mediocre second liner. Nothing more, and nothing less.

[Copenhagen848 58]

He probably shoots all the damn time for the same reason he's on the PP point to begin with; Babcock likes his shot, and wants him to use it. Sammy has always seemed like a very coachable player, and if the coaches felt he should stop shooting and asked him to, he would.

I finally came to the realization a few games ago that the reason Sammy shoots the puck so much, even with zero angle, 100 ft away, etc, is because he literally cannot do anything else with the puck. I'm sure the coaches see this also, and that's why they tell him to shoot it. He's going to give it away one way or another, might as well fling it at the goalie right?

I literally laughed out loud when I saw him on that breakaway the other day....only Sammy could make something look so terrible.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I hear that during practice, when its Sammy's turn to shoot, the entire team races out from the corners to in front of the net to avoid getting their jaw broken.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

We'll loan him to you for one of the games - then you can see for yourself how you like it.

p.s. I don't think he's as egregious as many make out

[Yellowknife Redwing 57]

My hope for next season is that Ville Leino magically jumps right into Sammy's spot and things just work out.

Leino/Mule/Cleary has a nice ring to it

[Reilly 24]

Sammy just needs to score ONE f'ing goal this series. Just one. Please?

[Guest LivingtheDream]

LGW needs a whipping boy at all times. The Wings didn't resign Lang after last season. Sammy boldly stepped in to fill his shoes.

I don't think there was much Sammy love ever. He is a mediocre player and his getting bumped down a line and Hudler up was a long time coming.

[Nev 1,085]

Listening to one of the games on the radio should make it crystal clear -

"Samuelsson shoots!....just wide!"

"Samuelsson shoots!....deflected into the corner!"

"Samuelsson shoots!....Blocked the [opposition] clear"

Watching him play the game is worse. He looks totally lost out there at times.

[P. Marlowe 748]

Sammy's offensive numbers, in terms of points per game, make him a top six forward in the NHL. I wouldn't call him one of Detroit's six best, but he is a much better player than you seem to feel. You need to learn to deal with the fact that to be a top-six forward, you don't have to be a 25+ goal, 70+ point player who is not a liability defensively. That's what we call a FIRST LINER, which Sammy is not.

Sammy is defensively responsible, and pitches in a decent amount of offense. He probably shoots all the damn time for the same reason he's on the PP point to begin with; Babcock likes his shot, and wants him to use it. Sammy has always seemed like a very coachable player, and if the coaches felt he should stop shooting and asked him to, he would.

He's a mediocre second liner. Nothing more, and nothing less.

Well written. Samuelsson scored 23 goals two years ago and in the three seasons he's played in Red Wings he's posted 0.6 points per game. I think that makes him a fairly good player considering that he does defend too. Second line winger could be better, but also could be much worse. All this childish criticism is exaggerated and makes the critisizers look stupid.

Of course it would be nice if Hudler continues to play this well, so Samuelsson can stay in the third line. Still Red Wings are in the finals with him in the team.

It's interesting though that in the last three seasons his shooting percentage has gone 12.3, 7.4 and 4.4. Every season he's been shooting more and scoring less.

Didn't Stars' defenseman outskate Samuelsson and poke the puck away from him in the breakaway? It's hard to hit the net if you don't have the puck. The Defenseman was faster that time and there can be many reasons to that.

[egroen 384]

Samuelsson, to me, exemplifies those frustrating playoff years when the Wings would be eliminated in the first round or two, despite outshooting their opponents. Shot after shot from the perimeter with few quality scoring chances. Just brings back bad memories and the frustration that went with it.

[Dabura 12,232]

He's a third-or-fourth-line guy being counted on to carry a huge offensive load because, gosh darn it, the idea of a high-scoring 2nd liner getting paid practically nothing is just so sexy. And, you know, he's just such a big guy.

Unfortunately, he'll never be a high-scoring guy who puts his size to good use. But don't tell Kenny that.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Dabura

[Opie 308]

He's a third-or-fourth-line guy being counted on to carry a huge offensive load because, gosh darn it, the idea of a high-scoring 2nd liner getting paid practically nothing is just so sexy. And, you know, he's just such a big guy.

Unfortunately, he'll never be a high-scoring guy who puts his size to good use. But don't tell Kenny that.

Can I ask you what would it take for you to get off of Holland, Sammy, whomever's back!

The team is in the SCF and you still find away to work digs in all of the time.

If you are so willing to dig at Holland when he has helped take this org to the SCF are you going to be so willing to admit you were wrong if/when the wings win the cup?

[Lovin Jiri Fischer 147]

It's not like I hate him. I still love him. But I just constantly find myself saying, "Wow Sammy...did you really just do that?"

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Can I ask you what would it take for you to get off of Holland, Sammy, whomever's back!

The team is in the SCF and you still find away to work digs in all of the time.

If you are so willing to dig at Holland when he has helped take this org to the SCF are you going to be so willing to admit you were wrong if/when the wings win the cup?

TBH, nothing annoys me more than when "fans" rip their team apart during adversity (or apparently when they've just won the WCF's) and make comments like "We did it!" or "I knew it all along!" when the team ends up winning it all.

How convenient for them.

[Opie 308]

TBH, nothing annoys me more than when "fans" rip their team apart during adversity (or apparently when they've just won the WCF's) and make comments like "We did it!" or "I knew it all along!" when the team ends up winning it all.

How convenient for them.

It is a very very safe way to be a fan, when in the middle of the season/post season they defend themselves by saying they're being realistic and those of us that have faith are looking at things through red glasses or are homers.

Then if they do lose, said fan can say I knew it all along, you guys were just blind.

OR

like you said when the team does win they say I knew it all along.

On a side note I have really laid off of people who say 'WE" when they talk about the wings, as fans we like to think we are apart of the team, and saying we makes it seem like they were on the ice helping out.

We did it, is still my favorite, no you didn't do s*** except drink beer and cheer!!!!!

[flyerdog 0]

I'm feeling some discontentment in the community for Mr. Samuelsson.....

What's up?

Useless trivia...in 2003...the Pens traded their 1st round pick (#3 overall) and Samuelsson to move up to #1 and drafted Fluery

check out this site:

NHL Draft history

I know hindsight is 20/20 but if you look at some of the drafts in the 1990s..and see who was picked and who was passed over it'll make you say "D'OH!!!" bigtime

more trivia: Tom GLavine (the pitcher) was drafted as an NHL player..ahead of Brett HUll

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

It is a very very safe way to be a fan, when in the middle of the season/post season they defend themselves by saying they're being realistic and those of us that have faith are looking at things through red glasses or are homers.

Then if they do lose, said fan can say I knew it all along, you guys were just blind.

OR

like you said when the team does win they say I knew it all along.

On a side note I have really laid off of people who say 'WE" when they talk about the wings, as fans we like to think we are apart of the team, and saying we makes it seem like they were on the ice helping out.

We did it, is still my favorite, no you didn't do s*** except drink beer and cheer!!!!!

Actually, if I ever say "We did it" it is partly legit. My wife has told me that she's fairly certain with how in-to the game I get that the Wings can probably hear me cheering in Detroit all the way from our living room in Green Bay, WI. It must be that X-factor that ESPN likes to talk about in pushing a team over the top.

Edit: (Tori) Spelling

Edited May 22, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[The Secret 304]

Don't like him! Never have, never will! I'm hoping he is shipped out as soon as possible. He is the best at shooting at the wrong time... my favourite is his one and only head fake move that never fools anyone. Maybe we can bundle him in a deal to get a decent replacement!

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

check out this site:

NHL Draft history

I know hindsight is 20/20 but if you look at some of the drafts in the 1990s..and see who was picked and who was passed over it'll make you say "D'OH!!!" bigtime

more trivia: Tom GLavine (the pitcher) was drafted as an NHL player..ahead of Brett HUll

I'm fairly certain that every team in the league has passed over a lot of the same players as well as their share of others. It's not just the Wings, every team passes on "Gems" every single year.

Don't like him! Never have, never will! I'm hoping he is shipped out as soon as possible. He is the best at shooting at the wrong time... my favourite is his one and only head fake move that never fools anyone. Maybe we can bundle him in a deal to get a decent replacement!

I always wonder why people think they can package Sammy with someone else and get a "decent replacement" if he is so clearly inept.

Please explain to me why anyone would be willing to part with a decent player for Sammy and some other guy if it is so wildly known that Sammy is useless.

[Dabura 12,232]

My problem with Sammy's presence on a scoring line is that Sammy, by make, shouldn't be on a scoring line -- especially if the team he's playing for is a deep-pocketed one bent on winning the Cup year in and year out. At very best, and in a perfect world, he's a guy who makes infrequent appearances on the second line, specifically when things aren't going well. That he's been counted on to be a big producer for several seasons now is ridiculous -- and yes, I blame management and the coaching staff more than I do Sammy. Sammy is what he is; you can't expect a checker with a "pretty good offensive upside" to transform into an elite scoring-line forward, even with the supporting cast he has around him. I don't care how good the coaching staff is, sometimes it's just not meant to be. Thankfully, the Drake-Draper-Sammy line seemed to click in that last game. And, of course, Mule should be coming back sometime soon.

As for Holland -- no, I'm not going to fall to my knees and cry, "Kenny, you were right! I take back everything!" That's because I take issue with specific decisions he's made, and they're the kind of decisions one can take issue with regardless of the ultimate outcome. I get frustrated at times and get hyperbolic -- at the end of the day, Kenny's the best GM in the league, hands down. Again, though, I take issue with the way he does some of his business. It doesn't make me a fairweather fan or whatever it is you like to imply that I am.

Should the Wings win the Cup (and they will win it), I think that between the coaching staff and upper management, it's the former that should get most of the credit for good "management." The Red Wings needed to become a "Babcock team" in order to go all the way. Right now, they're very much a Babcock team, and very much within reach of the Cup -- all despite Sammy!

[Dabura 12,232]

Never Forget Mac,

If you want to get personal, I'm game. But let's keep it to PMs.

[Opie 308]

Dabura to say you get hyperbolic is a bit of a stretch!

You down right were blaming Holland for this team not winning a cup this year, yet at the time the team was #1 in the NHL (still are), #1 defensive team in the league (IMO still are) one of the top 3 offensive teams in the league(still are). Yet because Holland couldn't/didn't land Hossa the season was over.

You were not being hyperbolic like most people on here you were overreacting and because NHL 08 lets you make any trade you want you think that translates to the NHL.

And not to get to personal but your's like Doc Holiday's hypocrisy knows no bounds.

During the trade deadline you were adamant that Holland was a horrible GM, now you say he is the best. Where was all of this he is the best but makes mistakes talk when you were blaming Holland for costing the Wings their shot at the cup before the playoffs had even begun.

You don't blame Sammy since when, he was useless and not worth a bag of pucks, now it is managements fault. Please you give the Coaching staff credit for making it work with Holland's guys but blame the coaching staff for playing Sammy where and when they do.

So which is it, the coaching staff winning in spite of its players and Org, or is it the players winning in spite of the coach and org, or is it that all three departments of the org are working together.

Don't take offense to other posters on here calling you out, because in the heat of the discussion months ago we were all blind or ignorant or homers because we didn't believe that not getting Hossa or Feds was the end of the team.

You may be posting civilly now but you weren't doing it that long ago!