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crotty99

Hossa's agent is floored by his client's behaviour

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He isn't "missing out" on anything unless something tragic happens to Hossa in the next year.

Hossa's still going to be filthy rich. He's got many years of excellent hockey left. That means that Winter's sill going to get his percentage.

One year less of interest on that fat paycheck for starters...and its guaranteed money.

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Thats because a lot of people on this board are familiar with Rich Winter and how the players he represents have acted in the past. The guy is all about money.

ah ok fair enough then, i guess im showing my inexperience then :lol:

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I need to start taking the cynical pills that everyone around here seems to gobble down.

I read that article and I get a completely different take.

One part even mentions that Hossa and his agent were laughing at what they were proposing. That's not someone who's pissed.

Yeah, I didn't see it either.

On the one hand, Hossa and Winter are partners trying to get the biggest contract they can, as normal. But all the while, Hossa is wanting to be a Red Wing, (tired of playing with the Brat Pack Penguins already?). So his priorities change from long term big $, to wanting to fit into the Red Wings system. As you stated, they were laughing about leaving millions of dollars on the table for a chance to win with a winning organization.

Bravo to Hossa, props to Winter. They both know there is a very good chance they have just postponned the money, not lost it forever.

Personally, I suspect its more like a one year test drive: If everone's still excited this time next year, maybe things get arrainged so Marian Hossa remains a Red Wing, along with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Rafalski, and ...(?)

From everyting I've read, Holland has dealt with Rich Winter before, and seems to have enough respect for the guy

Edited by T.Low

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From everyting I've read, Holland has dealt with Rich Winter before, and seems to have enough respect for the guy

He sure has. Just last year when we were all panicking about what would happen if Hasek didn't hurry up and sign a contract. Some people blasted Dom and his agent for stretching things out for so long. If you don't remember how it went down, here's a quote (thanks to Naranja, who uses it as her sig so I was able to find it easily).

"Dominik wanted to give the team room to have money under the salary cap. Let's face it, he's a $5 million-a-year goalie. We all know that. But I managed to talk them down to $2 million. It was a unique negotiation." Ritch Winter (Dom's agent)

Given his experience with Dom, I think he's ok with the Hossa situation.

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My brother-in-law is good friends with a TOP soccer agent - good enough friends that he lent him his house in Marseille for his honeymoon ;) He told me that most sports agents are little short of criminals in the way they control their clients.

The standard agents fee in soccer is 10% plus other perks like a couple of season tickets etc. If its the same in the NHL, Winter just lost out on a LOT of money.

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From redwings.nhl.com................A first round draft pick by the Ottawa Senators in1997, Hossa said he's harbored the opportunity to play for the Red Wings for sometime. "I've heard alot about things there from my friend" (Kopecky) "I was in contact with him during the year so we talked, and it's an exciting time and I'm looking forward to it." Who knows, maybe this isn't a one shot deal. Wonder how long he "harbored the opportunity".

Edited by nutz2u

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From redwings.nhl.com................A first round draft pick by the Ottawa Senators in1997, Hossa said he's harbored the opportunity to play for the Red Wings for sometime. "I've heard alot about things there from my friend" (Kopecky) "I was in contact with him during the year so we talked, and it's an exciting time and I'm looking forward to it." Who knows, maybe this isn't a one shot deal. Wonder how long he "harbored the opportunity".

Also - can somebody count and tell me how many times Hossa stated that he wants to win The Cup? That says it all for me. Welcome welcome welcome aboard. I just cleaned your locker for you. Also - first game? Yer a healthy scratch - cuz we're nuts too.

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you can actually bet your money on this to happen :)

Maybe but let's look at some numbers. This year the cap is about $56 Mil. Let's assume that it goes up 6-7mil like it did this year. That means we are looking at a cap of $62 mil.

For 09-10 we have a current cap hit of about $38 mil but we have to sign Hossa, Franzen, Z, Sammy, Kopetsky, Howard and Ty Conklin. I assume Cheli, McCarty and Flip fit under this year's cap as does Howard or Conklin.

Leave $2mil for Kopy and Sammy assuming that they are still here.

That leaves $60 -38 mil = 22mil.

Give Mule 5 mil because of his 40 goals. That leaves 17 mil for Z and Hossa. 8.5 each.

This could work.

Am I being too optimistic?

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Maybe but let's look at some numbers. This year the cap is about $56 Mil. Let's assume that it goes up 6-7mil like it did this year. That means we are looking at a cap of $62 mil.

For 09-10 we have a current cap hit of about $38 mil but we have to sign Hossa, Franzen, Z, Sammy, Kopetsky, Howard and Ty Conklin. I assume Cheli, McCarty and Flip fit under this year's cap as does Howard or Conklin.

Leave $2mil for Kopy and Sammy assuming that they are still here.

That leaves $60 -38 mil = 22mil.

Give Mule 5 mil because of his 40 goals. That leaves 17 mil for Z and Hossa. 8.5 each.

This could work.

Am I being too optimistic?

no effin way Kopecky gets $2M unless he shows he's second coming

of Johan Franzenstein. and $5M for Mule will only come true if he

repeats his achievements of 2007-08. which is not so likely to me.

the bar is really high for him :)

what relates to Hank and Hossa... if Holland keeps with "Lids is max" policy

they'll get at most $7.5M which would be below their market worth. Hank

may take the discount for some 7-8 yr contract but with Hossa it depends

a lot on his feeling towards Wings at the end of the season. I could see him

wanting to remain with Wings but it certainly will depend on the money.

I don't think he'll accept a lower deal for the second time.

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Maybe but let's look at some numbers. This year the cap is about $56 Mil. Let's assume that it goes up 6-7mil like it did this year. That means we are looking at a cap of $62 mil.

For 09-10 we have a current cap hit of about $38 mil but we have to sign Hossa, Franzen, Z, Sammy, Kopetsky, Howard and Ty Conklin. I assume Cheli, McCarty and Flip fit under this year's cap as does Howard or Conklin.

Leave $2mil for Kopy and Sammy assuming that they are still here.

That leaves $60 -38 mil = 22mil.

Give Mule 5 mil because of his 40 goals. That leaves 17 mil for Z and Hossa. 8.5 each.

This could work.

Am I being too optimistic?

Zetterberg will take less than 8.5M to stay on this team, I am certain.

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And while the agent does definitely work for the player, agents want as much cash/commission as possible. You need to make your client happy in the long term, but I'd be a bit foul (though understanding of the client's motives) as well if my client rejected higher contract offers.

I'd be foul too, but that's life. Some deals are big fat whales, some are minnows and some aren't anything at all. I was in the mortgage business and missed out on all kinds of fat commissions because my customers got a loan from mother or a 2nd for $40,000 instead of refinancing a $300,000 first. It would have been nice for me if they refi'd the first, but it wasn't what they ultimately wanted. Fortunately, I had other clients.

That Hossa's agent is floored that his client chose a 1 yr run with Detroit or is bummed about snagging a whale is understandable, but I'm sure he has other clients and is not hurting financially. If he wants to understand real financial anguish, he can work in a field where his job gets outsourced to India or China or in a factory that just announced tens of thousands of layoffs.

Besides, the agent is still going to get his whale, he's just not going to get it in 2008. Boo fricking hoo.

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Quote:

"I want to have the best chance to win the Stanley Cup," Hossa said. "I feel like Detroit is the team, that's why the decision was made by me ... I know I could make more money somewhere else, but the thing I was looking for was the best chance to win the Stanley Cup."

End Quote:

I was dancing around the room like everyone else when I heard the news of Hossa's signining with the Wings. However, I would have felt better if he had said something like "I signed with Detroit because I wanted to play hockey with these guys. They work hard every outing and that's how I approach the game. Another reason is because WE have the best opportunity to win the cup."

I know that could have been seen as a dig at Pittsburgh but Oh well. :)

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Quote:

"I want to have the best chance to win the Stanley Cup," Hossa said. "I feel like Detroit is the team, that's why the decision was made by me ... I know I could make more money somewhere else, but the thing I was looking for was the best chance to win the Stanley Cup."

End Quote:

I was dancing around the room like everyone else when I heard the news of Hossa's signining with the Wings. However, I would have felt better if he had said something like "I signed with Detroit because I wanted to play hockey with these guys. They work hard every outing and that's how I approach the game. Another reason is because WE have the best opportunity to win the cup."

I know that could have been seen as a dig at Pittsburgh but Oh well. :)

You need to read more articles man, he has said many many times he wants to be a Red Wing, Holland has said so, Winter has said so, Hossa has said so even in reference to before the Trade Deadline.

He does want to win the cup and the fact that Detroit, with or with out him, is a favorite helps, but he has also stated many times that he wants to be a Red Wing, that he wants to be a part of this Org.

Those of you mulling around Z and possibly Hossa's contract next year need to remember one thing:

NO ONE MAKES MORE MONEY THAN THE 'C"!!!!

Holland has made it apparent to the players that if the best player in the world takes a pay cut to be on the best team, so will everyone else. Sure he threw the let me check with Nick thing out there to Hossa, but look at the respect an outsider (of the Red Wing team) had, he said "Don't worry, I'll have what he is having!"

Could it bite Holland in the ass, maybe, but it appears to be a promise he made to Nick that he will stand behind!

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I need to start taking the cynical pills that everyone around here seems to gobble down.

I read that article and I get a completely different take.

One part even mentions that Hossa and his agent were laughing at what they were proposing. That's not someone who's pissed.

That's funny, that is exactly what I was thinking when I read the article. Nowhere in the article does it say the agent is mad or that Hossa was stupid for what he did, in fact it didn't seem like the agent was mad about it at all but rather enjoyed it. I know the agent lost a lot of money but perhaps he really enjoyed have a client who cared about more than just getting as much money as possible no matter what. Maybe he was mad but I don't think you can get that from the article, it is crazy that Hossa turned down the contracts he was offered and most of (if not all of) the people here were totally floored that Hossa turned down those offers to play for one year in Detroit. It is shocking but that doesn't make Hossa's agent a jerk it just makes him surprised - like everyone else. :rolleyes:

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I don't understand why everyone keeps saying Hossa's agent lost out on a lot of money! He just gets to sign another contract next year! Rich Winter will get his money. Hossa will get his. The contract is for one season ONLY because Holland needs to make sure he can sign Z by July 1, 2009. Once Z is locked up long term, then Holland will look at what we can afford to pay Hossa beyond the up coming season. If it works out and we get to keep Hossa, then great. If we don't get to keep him, then we got to have an elite winger on the team while we could afford to. This is all because Ken Holland was amazing at signing Z to his current contract. I don't think Rich Winter is worried about it one bit. He probably thinks it is better for himself long term, since the Red Wings make players look better than they are sometimes! If Hossa wins a cup with the wings, they both make more the year after. I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I'm fairly certain that an agent gets his cut yearly just like a player does, so Winter is really only missing out on his cut of $1.5 mil or so, if Hossa would've signed for $9 mil with Edmonton. A happy client stays with their agent....

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:lol:

It's coming. I don't think Hossa will be here longer than a year unless we lose some other significant players. This is a one year shot for Hossa. He's not going to pass up a $70m+ deal twice in a row.

Hopefully he wins the Cup before fading to obscurity in Edmonton, though.

Yeah no one here expects him to stay past this year, we just hope he will. If somehow they can make it happen great but I'm not expecting him here in 09-10 unless like Lidstrom retires. I mean him and Z would both need to take a lot less than what they could get on the open market to stay and Z shouldn't get anything less than what Pavel is getting imo.

I don't understand why everyone keeps saying Hossa's agent lost out on a lot of money! He just gets to sign another contract next year! Rich Winter will get his money. Hossa will get his. The contract is for one season ONLY because Holland needs to make sure he can sign Z by July 1, 2009. Once Z is locked up long term, then Holland will look at what we can afford to pay Hossa beyond the up coming season. If it works out and we get to keep Hossa, then great. If we don't get to keep him, then we got to have an elite winger on the team while we could afford to. This is all because Ken Holland was amazing at signing Z to his current contract. I don't think Rich Winter is worried about it one bit. He probably thinks it is better for himself long term, since the Red Wings make players look better than they are sometimes! If Hossa wins a cup with the wings, they both make more the year after. I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I'm fairly certain that an agent gets his cut yearly just like a player does, so Winter is really only missing out on his cut of $1.5 mil or so, if Hossa would've signed for $9 mil with Edmonton. A happy client stays with their agent....

People keep saying that about Winter because Winter is probably worried his client gets hurt or something, or has an awful year than the pay day next year is less than what it would be this summer.

Edited by StevieY9802

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Hossa's rationale for choosing Detroit sounds vaguely familiar. ;) Winter's seen this before in his clientele, and I doubt he was particularly surprised, in truth. I also doubt that he's upset about "losing" money on the deal.

Good for Hossa, for doing what he felt was right for his career and himself, and lucky Detroit. Hopefully, he will like being a Red Wing so much, he will stay more than one season.

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Hossa's rationale for choosing Detroit sounds vaguely familiar. ;) Winter's seen this before in his clientele, and I doubt he was particularly surprised, in truth. I also doubt that he's upset about "losing" money on the deal.

Good for Hossa, for doing what he felt was right for his career and himself, and lucky Detroit. Hopefully, he will like being a Red Wing so much, he will stay more than one season.

Hopefully, but let's not all think he is going to stay and when he leaves, we get all angry..

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Hopefully, but let's not all think he is going to stay and when he leaves, we get all angry..

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Chances are, no matter what Hossa does, someone will be unhappy about it. :lol:

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I wouldn't worry too much about it. Chances are, no matter what Hossa does, someone will be unhappy about it. :lol:

1/2 will be pissed if he leaves (he used us for a cup chance, traitor!) and 1/2 will be pissed if he stays (give some of the kids a chance!).

It's lose/lose around here. ;)

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1/2 will be pissed if he leaves (he used us for a cup chance, traitor!) and 1/2 will be pissed if he stays (give some of the kids a chance!).

It's lose/lose around here. ;)

:lol::thumbup:

Well played.

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I am stilll amazed Hossa is gonna play for the Wings.

Yay!

But I hope he stays healthy.

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Besides the possible" 08 Cup"I think it bears mentioning that Hossa saw first hand, how the Wings hung together like family. They took their play-off losses as the cost of doing business. The Pens however, were pointing the finger at ever one, [except the Pope] for each loss. If you were a professional, making a thousand dollars for every dollar the regular person makes, and your name on the Cup remains until the end of time, which team would you pick?

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I don't understand why everyone keeps saying Hossa's agent lost out on a lot of money! He just gets to sign another contract next year! Rich Winter will get his money. Hossa will get his. The contract is for one season ONLY because Holland needs to make sure he can sign Z by July 1, 2009. Once Z is locked up long term, then Holland will look at what we can afford to pay Hossa beyond the up coming season. If it works out and we get to keep Hossa, then great. If we don't get to keep him, then we got to have an elite winger on the team while we could afford to. This is all because Ken Holland was amazing at signing Z to his current contract. I don't think Rich Winter is worried about it one bit. He probably thinks it is better for himself long term, since the Red Wings make players look better than they are sometimes! If Hossa wins a cup with the wings, they both make more the year after. I'm not exactly sure how it works, but I'm fairly certain that an agent gets his cut yearly just like a player does, so Winter is really only missing out on his cut of $1.5 mil or so, if Hossa would've signed for $9 mil with Edmonton. A happy client stays with their agent....

In any work that pays a commission, it's always better to have as much money up front as possible or a guaranteed stream of money. This is why, for example, many health clubs try to get as much money up front out of you as possible, even though you might offer to make payments to cover the fees.

With Hossa signing a one year deal with the Wings, there's more uncertainty. What if he has a subpar season? What if the market changes for some reason, like a salary cap staying the same or even decreasing?

This is less compelling an argument, but the agent does have to do twice as much work to get the same amount of money in the long run than if Hossa just signed a long-term deal up front.

You're right that if Hossa plays as expected and signs a long-term deal with us or someone else, both he and the agent are going to more or less get the same money that they would have had Hossa signed a long-term deal last week.

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