Wings drafting

[Guest mindfly]

I mean, how long can wings keep this up, datsyuk and zetterberg are two in a million, our highest drafted player last season was a trade-deadliner Stuart, then we have Cleary whom had high exceptations from the start but failed to live up to them... and then we basically have a few late 1st round picks as our highest picks (only kronwall has become good)...What if detroit could get a few 1-5th overall once in a while :/ I think the system is bad....the worst team could place last and get 3-4 1st overall and then they win stanley cup... Just compare pittsburgh, they got like 10-12players in the first round and alot of them very early, detroit have like 3...

So what I really mean is, don't you think there is a high possibility that our era of domination will end pretty soon due to the fact that we won't get high picks and that we can't expect Hakan andersson to find a datstyuk every year (we all know it wont happen)

Feel free to discuss everything about our future, the draft system... maybe even the s***ty capsystem

[Namingway 146]

That's what makes hockey interesting as well. All we can do for now is just wait, sit back and enjoy the ride. We might not be able to pull of an era domination like the oilers or habs did a while back but it's not impossible. We might not be able to find Datsyuks and Zetterbergs every year but who knows. We have some good prospects with a bright future ahead of them and several players going into their primes. Of course we have some that are slipping away from their primes and some that have been slipping away for ages *cough*Cheli*cough*

A few years ago, ppl wondered what would become of the Wings once Stevie, Feds, Shanny and the rest were gone. 5 years ago, would we have ever guessed that Datsyuk and Z were going become the players that they are today? A few might have, but for the most part no. Ppl now wonder what will become of the Wings once Lidstrom a.k.a our pillar of support, retires. I'm sure a lot of us s*** bricks at the thought of that but I'm more interested in finding out who will carry on the torch after he's gone.

How many first round picks did we have in the lineup that won us the Stanley Cup? This is why I'm starting to think that the draft number or earlier picks are starting to be somewhat overrated and this is why I also think that Stamkos will not do as great as expected (Although he will have an impact on his team). You don't need a team full of early picks to win.

The capsystem is indeed s***ty but I think the Wings actually know how it works better than any other team in the league. That's another thing we take for granted as Red Wings fans. Just imagine the horrors of being a Leafs or Isles fan right now.. or what about the BJ's and their Filatov situation?

The fact of the matter is, we are the Red Wings and you can't spell Wings without WIN, prepare to see many more victories

God I can't wait for the season to start.

Until then, all I have is stuff like this to keep me entertained

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...03173229AAUR9zt

Edited July 23, 2008 by Namingway

[Grim 5]

Although nothing beats damn good scouting, I'm sure the recent success owes alot to the system they have here in Detroit. Stevie, Shanny, Nick & Feds... god bless em all... shouldered tonnes of pressure over their years. I'm sure this helped tremendously in allowing players like Datsyuk and Zetts to develop and florish. I remember Freeper forum way back when, ranting and raving over this kid Datsyuk who was breaking ankles in the RSL. He certainly wasn't thrust into the NHL blender before he was ready.

Heck, the leadership void after Stevie and Shanny's departure probably helped the team in some sordid way... by forcing our young stars to step up.

[daniel1 32]

The drafting is just one part of player development. Where I see the Wings having a clear advantage over most of the other teams in the league is their philosophy on player development AFTER the player has been drafted. Holland recently said that "we like our players to be over ready" before we bring them up and I think this is a real key in the progress of our draft picks such as Zetterberg, Kronwall and Ericsson. Other teams seem to rush their prospects into roles and responsibilities that they may not be mature enough (mentally or physically) to handle while the Wings show extreme patience and caution in order to maximize the potential of the player.

So much of hockey is a mental game encompassing confidence, anticipation and creativity and really and truly the raw talent and physical ability between a 1st rounder and a 3rd rounder may not be all that different but it's the mental makeup which will determine success at the NHL level. In my opinion the Wings do a better job than anyone of paying attention to this side of a prospects development and giving the player the best possible chance to maximize his abilities in the NHL.

Having a guy like Hakan who can seem to spot potential and skill doesn't hurt either and blends well into the Wings drafting philosophy of skill over size. You can take a skilled player and make him a little bigger and grittier with conditioning and coaching but it's near impossible to take a big lug and infuse him with talent. Try turning Scott Parker or Derek Boogard into 30 goal scorers; it ain't happening. Yet we did see a 30 goal, 97pt undersized center lead our team in hits and trade blows with a tough guy from the other team in the Stanley Cup finals

[imisssergei 0]

I didn't read the other responses, so sorry if this is a repeat.

What I think separates the Wings from other NHL teams is consistency. And not just with winning, or drafting well. With everything. The Wings style of play has been the nearly the same since Scotty took over. Yes, I know it's not the exact same system, but the Wings puck control, Euro style of play is what I'm talking about.

Add in the stability of the franchise. The front office, scouts, coaches, everyone has an easier job to do when the system is the same. Take a team like Atlanta. How many coaches have they gone through? Too many system changes to expect a competitive team.

The Wings can turn out these lower draft picks that become stars for a few reasons....

1. The Wings have some of the best scouts in the league

2. The scouts know exactly what they are looking for

3. Since the right players get drafted, the coaches are able to develop the talent properly

4. The players drafted are drafted to fit a system that has been in place for years, which gives them the time to develop.

[Echolalia 2,961]

There's so many more variables besides where a team is placed in a draft that determines the outcome of a team's success. You can't pin it down to 1st round pick, 1st round pick, 1st round pick. Yeah, Pittsburgh was sick last year, and they got significantly better at the deadline, but they didn't win the cup. And they lost a lot to get as far as they did. Its all a balancing act, and I don't think the Wings will start to suffer until about 5 years after Holland and co. retire, assuming the GM to be sucks. If he's well trained and his crew is also, then our dynasty could last for another 20 years.

All in all, though, teams go through cycles. A couple years of stardom, a couple years of crap, and usually the higher you go, the deeper you fall. The Wings have been in the top three for the past decade+, so we're definitely overdue. But we have alot of talent beneath the Wings offensively, defensively, and apparently in goaltending as well. When Holland and co. plan to retire, they won't be leaving us with nothing.

[Dabura 12,232]

So what I really mean is, don't you think there is a high possibility that our era of domination will end pretty soon due to the fact that we won't get high picks

The Wings' scouting system is all about finding diamonds in the rough. Why, then, would a lack of high picks in the coming years spell impending doom? For this scouting staff, having unenviable picks in the draft is the status quo. Sure, they're not going to find a Datsyuk or a Zetterberg every year. But there's no reason to panic.

...Unless Mr. Anderson jumps ship all of a sudden or something.

[theman19 47]

know what really blows my mind?

If Jasper samuelsson impresses this year, two mr. irrelevents (last overall picks) will be blue chip red wings prospect. The other being ericsson.

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

The Wings' scouting system is all about finding diamonds in the rough. Why, then, would a lack of high picks in the coming years spell impending doom? For this scouting staff, having unenviable picks in the draft is the status quo. Sure, they're not going to find a Datsyuk or a Zetterberg every year. But there's no reason to panic.

...Unless Mr. Anderson jumps ship all of a sudden or something.

Agreed, while I don't feel the same sense of stardom comming from Hudler or Filpulla, if Kenny sells them like they are we can trade em away for first rounders ^^. Or we can let them develop and they become capable second liners

[wingsdiehard13 33]

I mean, how long can wings keep this up, datsyuk and zetterberg are two in a million, our highest drafted player last season was a trade-deadliner Stuart, then we have Cleary whom had high exceptations from the start but failed to live up to them... and then we basically have a few late 1st round picks as our highest picks (only kronwall has become good)...What if detroit could get a few 1-5th overall once in a while :/ I think the system is bad....the worst team could place last and get 3-4 1st overall and then they win stanley cup... Just compare pittsburgh, they got like 10-12players in the first round and alot of them very early, detroit have like 3...

So what I really mean is, don't you think there is a high possibility that our era of domination will end pretty soon due to the fact that we won't get high picks and that we can't expect Hakan andersson to find a datstyuk every year (we all know it wont happen)

Feel free to discuss everything about our future, the draft system... maybe even the s***ty capsystem

I just want to know....... Why are you always so worried?

[ltgator333 3]

I think it to a certain extent starts right from the top with the ownership... I mean they have a good product as-is so there's no pressure to turn the franchise around next season, there's no pressure to prove anything with the draft picks they chose right away. The whole organization can take it's time to do things right instead of rushing prospect development.

They've got the talent where it counts in scouting and coaching obviously as well, and that just plays into the whole system. As long as they stick with the plan and keep the proper talent where said talent needs to be the wings could be a top tier club for decades.

ALSO- when you're running a good team like the wings it makes it that much easier to sign free agents, I mean the question to these guys is basicly hey if you wanna play for a winner come to detriot. Same for player retention, unless guys they draft have a strong desire to go somewhere else, why would they? They're already playing for a good team that's going to continue to be that way.

Edited July 24, 2008 by ltgator333

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

So many essays

[Holmstrom96Screens 0]

, then we have Cleary whom had high exceptations from the start but failed to live up to them...

lol whatta ye talkin about...Cleary got better every year since he first joined the wings and he gradually learned to be a more of a two way player....plays in every situation and everyone is proud of him....he did well last year and would have done better except he was out for a while due to a broken jaw.....

Now Im not a Newfoundland homer or anything I'm just saying he was a mediocre player not even very good before joining the wings but since he joined he got better and now he can do pretty much anything asked of him and is one of the team's better players.

If he avoids injury next year I expect him to have a great season again.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Holmstrom96Screens

[Mikeal 60]

I think he was saying cleary was another late found diamond. He started out bad, but grew up to be a great player.

[Holmstrom96Screens 0]

I think he was saying cleary was another late found diamond. He started out bad, but grew up to be a great player.

well if thats what he meant then my apologies to him.

[Stu in Israel 0]

well if thats what he meant then my apologies to him.

We're not supposed to interpret what people MAY have been thinking, a person's response should be self-sufficient.

Wonderful posts from everyone above. Intelligent, discerning, truly representative of the great organization (the Detroit Red Wings) we all support.

Regarding the "grooming" of our players: How many people think that maybe Yzerman is being "groomed" for a future role? Holland is not that old, and with all his success I wish him the Hebrew blessing related to Moses: Until (age) 120! (Deuteronomy 34:7)

[octopusonice 0]

I mean, how long can wings keep this up, datsyuk and zetterberg are two in a million, our highest drafted player last season was a trade-deadliner Stuart, then we have Cleary whom had high exceptations from the start but failed to live up to them... and then we basically have a few late 1st round picks as our highest picks (only kronwall has become good)...What if detroit could get a few 1-5th overall once in a while :/ I think the system is bad....the worst team could place last and get 3-4 1st overall and then they win stanley cup... Just compare pittsburgh, they got like 10-12players in the first round and alot of them very early, detroit have like 3...

So what I really mean is, don't you think there is a high possibility that our era of domination will end pretty soon due to the fact that we won't get high picks and that we can't expect Hakan andersson to find a datstyuk every year (we all know it wont happen)

Feel free to discuss everything about our future, the draft system... maybe even the s***ty capsystem

No, because I don't think that high draft picks automatically equate to successful teams. There are numerous examples of top five picks in any sport that turned out to be total busts and late round picks that ended up as All Stars and HOFers.

I think that the kind of players the Red Wings want are less likely to be found in the top five picks anyway. It's more about finding someone who has a better all around game than someone who is a flashy goal scorer.

As long as we have the GM and scouts that we do, this team should be strong for awhile. They have done a good job of transitioning from the Money is No Object era to the era of managing salaries and personnel intelligently.

[Guest mindfly]

Very reasonable answers from everyone... But damn, I gotta say it would've been sweet with a Tavares in detroit

[19Hockeytown5 0]

I'm quite happy with these low picks. Low picks mean success. You should start worrying when we are picking high with the Atlanta's/columbus'. I don't see any reason why we can't continue this long term (it's already been 17 years). Detroit drafts and develops role players and every once in a while gets a gem (dat/zet) but they have always used free agentcy. Free agentcy allows them to fill in the holes with talent.

They know their system and at this point you can't argue with it and there's nothing to worry about (for the forseeable future)

[egroen 384]

I'm just saying he was a mediocre player not even very good before joining the wings but since he joined he got better and now he can do pretty much anything asked of him and is one of the team's better players.

He meant before Cleary came to Detroit... he was drafted top ten as a top prospect and miserably failed to live up to 'those' expectations. Almost a Daigle type who thought he could get by on talent alone.

Got married, tried out for Detroit and his game has improved tons since then.

[Guest mindfly]

"egroen" understood me perfectly

[Hitchhiker 9]

Regarding the "grooming" of our players: How many people think that maybe Yzerman is being "groomed" for a future role? Holland is not that old, and with all his success I wish him the Hebrew blessing related to Moses: Until (age) 120! (Deuteronomy 34:7)

Some time in the late 90's early 00's I read a quote from Ken Holland that was something to the effect of "When Stevie retires, I will be out of a job". Obviously that didn't happen but it did show they were already grooming him for a management roll.

Back to the original topic. The Wings organization amazes me each time I look any aspect of it; Scouting, Player Development, Management, and of course the players and the coaching staff. They may not win every year, but you can honestly say that they try their damnedest each and every year to win it.

I think the only area that I have seen them fail recently was last year when they attempted to manage the Griffins. The idea was a good one, it just never worked quite right. I do give them credit for backing out after failing so bad.

[Holmstrom96Screens 0]

He meant before Cleary came to Detroit... he was drafted top ten as a top prospect and miserably failed to live up to 'those' expectations. Almost a Daigle type who thought he could get by on talent alone.

Got married, tried out for Detroit and his game has improved tons since then.

Oh yea..yea...I understand now what he means. Got ya. He did mean when he first came the NHL and played for some years and was mediocre.

He did say at the stanley cup celebration on july 1 that everything was too easy for him as a younger fellow, he was arrogant and egotisical and thought he had to work but little to get by.

btw Daigle...ugh. Dont get me started on him. I remember him well. Too well. He's one of those players I wish I could erase from my memory.

[Dabura 12,232]

Agreed, while I don't feel the same sense of stardom comming from Hudler or Filpulla, if Kenny sells them like they are we can trade em away for first rounders ^^. Or we can let them develop and they become capable second liners

The way I see it, there's really not a lot of pressure on the Wings' scouts at this point in time. That's because most of the key pieces for "the new guard"/"the team of tomorrow"/whatever you want to call it are in place. Hank and Dats will be Wings for life, imo. Mule and Flip will probably stick around. We have some good, hard-working up-and-comers in the forwards pipeline, e.g. Helm (aka The Next Generation of Motown Grinder). By some miracle, Hossa might even be here for a stretch. On D -- well, we all know about the logjam. There's some solid depth in the goalie pipeline as well.

Worst comes to worst, the Wings suck for a season or two and get some great draft picks.