Schneider waived by Ducks/traded to Atlanta.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Can the Ducks now trade Schnieds for half his salary? Or would the other team be on hook for the full salary?

[HenrikRules40 14]

I know what Det and Ana should do... a gm switch for like 3 seasons and see what happens just think about it.... Z on waivers...

Does that mean I can pick him up?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

To my knowledge, the NHL will not reject a contract because a player agreed to take less than his market value; the only situations where a contract will be rejected is if the values of salary do not conform to the established rules (such as the Erat extension) or if the contract would put the team over the cap during the playing season. If Selanne wants to sign for the league minimum, the league would approve the contract. Selanne's cap number, with bonuses, was just shy of $3m last year. That was a pay cut of more than $1m from his previous season. If the NHL was going to reject that kind of stuff, Selanne would have been playing for more than he made last year.

Also, Nicklas Lidstrom would make more than the $7.45m he does (pay cut after winning the Norris trophy for the fifth time in six seasons), and Marian Hossa wouldn't be a Red Wing.

Its not just the NHL. Its the NHLPA as well. As we know, the NHLPA wants players to be signed to lucrative contracts, as it sets the market standards higher and all players pocketbooks benefit. That kind of contract doesn't bode well for the older players who still have strong legs and are worth their pay of several million dollars at age 38 or older. I don't suppose a guy like Brendan Shanahan would like this too much. IF Selanne signs for 500k, what does that make Shanny worth? 300?

Edited September 18, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[MacK_Attack 108]

Can the Ducks now trade Schnieds for half his salary? Or would the other team be on hook for the full salary?

They can put him on re-entry waivers, which means if he was claimed, the Ducks and the claiming team would split Schneider's salary & cap hit 50/50.

If they trade him, the team acquiring him takes on 100% of his salary.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

To my knowledge, the NHL will not reject a contract because a player agreed to take less than his market value; the only situations where a contract will be rejected is if the values of salary do not conform to the established rules (such as the Erat extension) or if the contract would put the team over the cap during the playing season. If Selanne wants to sign for the league minimum, the league would approve the contract. Selanne's cap number, with bonuses, was just shy of $3m last year. That was a pay cut of more than $1m from his previous season. If the NHL was going to reject that kind of stuff, Selanne would have been playing for more than he made last year.

Also, Nicklas Lidstrom would make more than the $7.45m he does (pay cut after winning the Norris trophy for the fifth time in six seasons), and Marian Hossa wouldn't be a Red Wing.

I should have been more specific. Not so much the NHL, but the NHLPA. I'd be surprised if they let a contract like that go through.

There's hometown discounts like Lidstrom's and shorter term and a discount like Hossa, but Selanne taking league minimum is well beyond either of those things.

I had trouble finding good info on Selanne's past contracts, but what info I did find said he was paid 3.75 million in '07. So $3 million last year is not that big of a reduction. Even if it's the numbers you have, a paycut of a million dollars down to $3 million is not the same as going from $3 million down to league minimum.

EDIT: Beat again by YoungGuns! *shaking fist at him*

Edited September 18, 2008 by haroldsnepsts

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I know what Det and Ana should do... a gm switch for like 3 seasons and see what happens just think about it.... Z on waivers...

Trading Filpulla for Tkachuk...

waiving Conklin...

signing Bertuzzi, AGAIN, then waiving him...

[greenrebellion 415]

ESPN Article on Schneider

It appears that re-entry is not an option, they are going to revisit trading him. The reason Burke didn't want to do a deal before, was that all offers required additional players. Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

[bogeygolfer 4]

Its funny because if he wasn't a complete idiot, he could have gotten something for Brylzgalov and Schneider if he had traded them during free agency. I gaurantee that if Schnieder was waived in june, he would have been claimed in a minute. Atleast Burke could trade him for another bloated contract, one that he could demote to minors and not have count against the cap, because Mat is a good player and his contract isnt yashin like.

[HenrikRules40 14]

EDIT: Beat again by YoungGuns! *shaking fist at him*

Seems your age is catching up to you yet again. Next time have your day nurse read it to you.

As for Burke, if he would just be reasonable and listen to some offers he could probably work something out. Stupid ego.

EDIT: Where's that guy that wrote the "Burke is GM of the Year" article? I'd like to laugh in his face now-ish.

Edited September 18, 2008 by HenrikRules40

[Duck Guy 86]

ESPN Article on Schneider

It appears that re-entry is not an option, they are going to revisit trading him. The reason Burke didn't want to do a deal before, was that all offers required additional players. Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

ya thats basically what the people over at the ducks forums thought

Seems your age is catching up to you yet again. Next time have your day nurse read it to you.

As for Burke, if he would just be reasonable and listen to some offers he could probably work something out. Stupid ego.

EDIT: Where's that guy that wrote the "Burke is GM of the Year" article? I'd like to laugh in his face now-ish.

O.o

Edited September 18, 2008 by Duck Guy

[edicius 3,269]

Interesting on the "additional players" bit. The other GMs KNOW that they have Burke over a barrel and there ain't a damn thing he can do about it. If he wants to get rid of Schneider, he's gonna have to lose something else too - most likely a roster player, considering the leverage they have (or do they mean an additional player coming Anaheim's way?).

As far as the Teemu signing for the minimum, there's no way the NHLPA would allow it. Think of it this way - would the NHLPA have allowed Sakic to re-sign with the Avs for, say, $2M? Of course not. Teemu's 38, Sakic's 39, so there's a similarity in age. Their stats are comparable as well, taking into account the abbreviated 07-08 seasons both had (Sakic had 40 pts in 44 games, Teemu had 23 points in 26 games). Sakic is getting paid $6M this season, which for his production and skill set is fair market value...so, to be honest, I'd think the NHLPA would even be skeptical with a $3M contract right now, much less a league minimum. $3M is a huge discount - $500K is just ridiculous.

Edited September 18, 2008 by edicius

[BuckeyeWingsfan80 209]

Burke's eyes are on Toronto. And he's the kind of vindictive assninja who will drive an organization into the ground if he knows he's on the outs with it.

+1 for the use of assninja

[Duck Guy 86]

Burke comments on Schneider situation

[P. Marlowe 748]

Interesting on the "additional players" bit. The other GMs KNOW that they have Burke over a barrel and there ain't a damn thing he can do about it. If he wants to get rid of Schneider, he's gonna have to lose something else too - most likely a roster player, considering the leverage they have (or do they mean an additional player coming Anaheim's way?).

It means another player coming to Anaheim, so they couldn't just drop the team overall salary by 5.75 million, but they also would need to add someone's salary there. This time of year many teams have someone who they would like to dump somewhere.

Burke said the team has turned down a minimum of five trades for Schneider in the last week, with all of them involving additional players. He said the Ducks would reassess those options.

"Now we know that moving the entire salary is not realistic, so how much money and what player do we have to take back for a deal to line up?" Burke said.

[Guest mindfly]

Why wouldn't NHLPA allow players to take league minimum or close to that? What is their problem? The team with the less greedy bastards would probably win then, that would be great!

[Opie 308]

To me the funniest part is that wasn't Ana one of those orgs with a "Self-imposed" cap?

Now Burke has them strung up against the real cap which I would have to guess is no where near the "Self Imposed" number the org drew up.

The way he is handling the Ducks I hope his wife handles the checkbook otherwise this dude will be broke as soon as he leaves Toronto, in worse shape than they are now, in 4 years!

[55fan 5,133]

Why wouldn't NHLPA allow players to take league minimum or close to that? What is their problem? The team with the less greedy bastards would probably win then, that would be great!

Because the NHLPA is a union, which means they don't give two figs and a turnip about what the individuals they represent want to do with their own lives; the only thing that matters is that everyone gets the best- with them (the union) deciding what is best for the players.

Side note to the LA Kings: Please pick up Schneids. I so want to root for him again.

[Opie 308]

I would love to see Schneids in LA or Phx for that matter.

Maybe he finishes his career in LA, not his first team but a team he spend a decent chunk of time with.

[eva unit zero 271]

Interesting on the "additional players" bit. The other GMs KNOW that they have Burke over a barrel and there ain't a damn thing he can do about it. If he wants to get rid of Schneider, he's gonna have to lose something else too - most likely a roster player, considering the leverage they have (or do they mean an additional player coming Anaheim's way?).

As far as the Teemu signing for the minimum, there's no way the NHLPA would allow it. Think of it this way - would the NHLPA have allowed Sakic to re-sign with the Avs for, say, $2M? Of course not. Teemu's 38, Sakic's 39, so there's a similarity in age. Their stats are comparable as well, taking into account the abbreviated 07-08 seasons both had (Sakic had 40 pts in 44 games, Teemu had 23 points in 26 games). Sakic is getting paid $6M this season, which for his production and skill set is fair market value...so, to be honest, I'd think the NHLPA would even be skeptical with a $3M contract right now, much less a league minimum. $3M is a huge discount - $500K is just ridiculous.

$3m is more than Teemu's cap hit, including all potential bonuses, was for last season. So regardless of what you think the NHLPA 'will do' they won't force an aging player who played under 30 games to hold out for a raise if he doesn't feel he earned it. The PA wouldn't even have done that under Goodenow, and the PA has been much LESS intrusive on the player's end of contract negotiations since Kelly took over from what I have gathered. Anyone remember when the PA gave Chelios a hard time about wanting to just resign and pretty much forced him to wait until July 1st, and there were all kinds of 'Chelios to New York' rumors? Chelios just wanted to sign, and the PA was giving him hell over it. That kind of crap has pretty much been curbed.

[eva unit zero 271]

If Burke is intent on sending off Schneider, Burke should try and package Schneider and Marchant to a team that is below the floor for whatever cheap spare parts they are willing to give up.

A good example:

To Atlanta:

D Mathieu Schneider

C Todd Marchant

To Anaheim:

D Ken Klee

Schneider is a better offensive defenseman and PP quarterback than anything Atlanta currently has. Marchant also provides much more value on faceoffs and defense to a team like Atlanta than he does to Anaheim. Klee is a decent bottom-three defensive defenseman at a good price, which is what Burke should be looking for in this trade. Anaheim comes out of the deal dropping to about $5.5m under the cap, which allows them to sign Selanne and Miller and to bring Ryan in full-time.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

If Burke is intent on sending off Schneider, Burke should try and package Schneider and Marchant to a team that is below the floor for whatever cheap spare parts they are willing to give up.

A good example:

To Atlanta:

D Mathieu Schneider

C Todd Marchant

To Anaheim:

D Ken Klee

Schneider is a better offensive defenseman and PP quarterback than anything Atlanta currently has. Marchant also provides much more value on faceoffs and defense to a team like Atlanta than he does to Anaheim. Klee is a decent bottom-three defensive defenseman at a good price, which is what Burke should be looking for in this trade. Anaheim comes out of the deal dropping to about $5.5m under the cap, which allows them to sign Selanne and Miller and to bring Ryan in full-time.

Burke would look less stupid letting Schneider leave for nothing, than by trading him and Marchant for Ken Klee. The latter situation just looks downright embarassing.

[eva unit zero 271]

Burke would look less stupid letting Schneider leave for nothing, than by trading him and Marchant for Ken Klee. The latter situation just looks downright embarassing.

The trade suggestion I put up, Burke dumps off Schneider and a $2.5m fourth liner and gets back a gritty stay-at-home defenseman and the cap space he needs. It's exactly the kind of trade he should be looking for; if he were the GM he is hyped to be, he would be out pitching that deal to Atlanta.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

$3m is more than Teemu's cap hit, including all potential bonuses, was for last season. So regardless of what you think the NHLPA 'will do' they won't force an aging player who played under 30 games to hold out for a raise if he doesn't feel he earned it. The PA wouldn't even have done that under Goodenow, and the PA has been much LESS intrusive on the player's end of contract negotiations since Kelly took over from what I have gathered. Anyone remember when the PA gave Chelios a hard time about wanting to just resign and pretty much forced him to wait until July 1st, and there were all kinds of 'Chelios to New York' rumors? Chelios just wanted to sign, and the PA was giving him hell over it. That kind of crap has pretty much been curbed.

So to make sure I'm following you, in the highlighted portion you're basically saying it doesn't matter what he thinks the NHLPA will do, then go on to state exactly what they will do as if you know it for a fact?

If Teemu tried to sign for league minimum, I just can't see the PA approving it because it is so ridiculously below his market value.

Honestly though it's probably a moot point because I don't see Selanne signing for that little either, nor should he.

[eva unit zero 271]

So to make sure I'm following you, in the highlighted portion you're basically saying it doesn't matter what he thinks the NHLPA will do, then go on to state exactly what they will do as if you know it for a fact?

If Teemu tried to sign for league minimum, I just can't see the PA approving it because it is so ridiculously below his market value.

Honestly though it's probably a moot point because I don't see Selanne signing for that little either, nor should he.

The NHLPA does not reject "contracts that are below market value" like you guys seem to think.

A good example?

Paul Kariya signed a one-year deal with Colorado for 1.2m for the 2003-04 season. He had scored 25 goals and 81 points in 82 games the previous season, and was a UFA. He had been offered upwards of $6m by Anaheim after they declined to pick up his option which was upwards of $10m with the plan of signing both Kariya and Teemu Selanne.

If the NHLPA were so concerned with rejecting deals that were below a player's market value, Kariya would never have been allowed to play for Colorado.

Nicklas Lidstrom continuing to take pay cuts while being named the best defenseman in the league also would probably get rejected by the union.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

The NHLPA does not reject "contracts that are below market value" like you guys seem to think.

A good example?

Paul Kariya signed a one-year deal with Colorado for 1.2m for the 2003-04 season. He had scored 25 goals and 81 points in 82 games the previous season, and was a UFA. He had been offered upwards of $6m by Anaheim after they declined to pick up his option which was upwards of $10m with the plan of signing both Kariya and Teemu Selanne.

If the NHLPA were so concerned with rejecting deals that were below a player's market value, Kariya would never have been allowed to play for Colorado.

Nicklas Lidstrom continuing to take pay cuts while being named the best defenseman in the league also would probably get rejected by the union.

Using Lidstrom as your example isn't Apples to Apples. Lidstrom continues to take a home-town discount that still pins him as one of the top paid defensemen in the game. Teemu trying to push through a contract for the league minimum (even though he probably never would) is not proportionally the same as Lidstrom taking $3 million less than what he's worth.

As for Kariya signing with Colorado for what he did....that was before the cap when the NHLPA didn't have to "worry" so much about players signing well below their worth because plenty of others were signing for well over their actual value. One guy sliding in there on the other end of the spectrum was hardly enough to raise eyebrows.