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egroen

A case for #91 in the rafters?

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omg, eva unit zero and gordiesid&ted are still arguing, wow i haven't missed anything! haha

hahaha, that's funny. :lol:

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i think that if one person walks in the rink and thinks to themslelves, "that number doesnt belong up there" then it shouldnt be hanging up there. Having your number retired is a badge of honor for a team that you are associated with when you are remembered down the road.

#4 Red Kelly should be up there eventually (debatable)

#5 Nick Lidstrom is arguably the second best defenseman ever (lock)

#6 Larry Aurie dont know the whole story, cant comment

#16 Vladdy should be honered, but not retired (debatable)

#30 Chris Osgood Numbers are up there with best ever, but everyone remembers the bad times more than the good times (debatable)

#91 Sergei Fedorov fantastic numbers with wings, on numbers alone yes, but the way he left, not showing respect to the team, doesnt deserve the team to show the utmost homor and respect to him , save 91 for the next cant miss prospect ( no)

my humble opinion, please feel free to critique, nothing better than talking hockey

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I'd like to add my two cents on this one, having been a huge fedorov fan in the 90's like many people and a huge fan of ted Lindsay (he's the reason I got interested in the red wings in 1995 in the first place I saw the movie Net Worth about Lindsay's story in 1995 and 1995 is when i became a fan of the red wings) and since then I have read a lot about Teddy and his fight, and Fedorov and his fights.

While I agree that there is a little similarity between Sergey and Teddy in their contract disputes over money, I think that is as far as the similarity goes. Teddy was basically fighting for a fairere system for all players so they and later generations of players could live much better lives for themselves and their families ; Sergey on the other hand did not. His contract disputes and why he left was not really about that. It was, as other people pointed out, about him. I do not fault Sergey for this as lots of players want better contracts and more money. I'm simply saying that that is where the similarity between him and Teddy ends. Sheeesh, I remember reading in the newspaper in the latter part of the 90's as a teenager some years after Gordie Howe and some other retired NHL players sued the NHL after what the NHL had done to players from their time. In this article I read (the supreme court of Canada ruled that the NHL owned the retired players a minimum of $36 million dollars) this retired player , when he received his compensation, he went out and bought himself a nice big fat steak for his supper. The very next day, he died. How sad is that.

I do not believe that Sergey's and Teddy's fights over money can be comparable. I even think that to do so actually is a bit of a slap in the face to Teddy and everything he fought for, to be honest and would dimish his heroism.

Having said all this, though, Sergey can be credited with serving a similar, but dfferent role in fighting for something. Recall that Sergey was Russian, and in the early 1980's and even long before that Russian players were practically owned by the so called Communist USSR. Sergey defected during a Goodwill Games being played here in 1989 at the time to go sign with the Red Wings. He - and several other Russians who also left - Pavel Bure, Alexander Mogilny, Vyacheslav Fetisov, Igor Larionov, respectively - left to play over here but it also sent a message that they were opposed to the kind of system the USSR had set up over there - hockey wise and politically. It was a hockey statement, but also a political one as well. The actions of Sergey - and some of the people who would later become his teammates - as well as those like Bure and Mogilny - would inspire Larionov and Fetisov to go back to Russia. To fight for official permission for they and the later generations of Russians such as Datsyuk, Malkin, Ovechkin, Samsonov to name a few, to legally come here and play. Sergey and the rest were the first generations of Russians to open the door for the younger ones.

In this way Sergey can be credited. His playing abilities, we all know he was also a great player. So while Sergey did not fight in exactly the same way as Teddy did, he did make a contribution to the sport of hockey that can be commended.

That said, I agree with some of the other posters in this thread who said that Sergey's # 91 should not be retired now, but maybe later, as time changes.

I also noticed that some one also criticized the Montreal Canadiens for being too relaxing with number retirements. I take issue with that. The Canadiens have a long history, a century's worth. They have been able tobuilt up more stars and more star lines, therefore obviously they can retire a lot more numbers than the red wings. In fact the Canadiens were one of the teams who help built the NHL in december 1917, and when the new league had its very first real superstar, it was Canadien Joe Malone (if you dont know who that is I suggest you look him up; he was awesome in his time). By comparison detroit only had its first team in 1926, not only that they did not become what we know as the red wings until 1932. By that time the habs already had a history, dynasty, and a string of stanley cups behind them. The red wings first real dynasty had hardly begun in the 30's. I suggest you do some more research before you open your keyboard (and before anyone asks yes I'm a habs fan; they are my second fave team).

That is all. well that, and a key number of members from this new red wings dynasty starting from the later part of the 90's should be retired; among them all those who were there for all four of sc championships and yes I absolutely vote for my fave player, # 96.

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#4 Red Kelly should be up there eventually (debatable)

What on earth is debateable about Red Kelly?

I do not believe that Sergey's and Teddy's fights over money can be comparable. I even think that to do so actually is a bit of a slap in the face to Teddy and everything he fought for, to be honest and would dimish his heroism.

The comparison is both players left the team on horrible terms, Lindsay's being much worse, of course (at the time). Time and perspective can heal such wounds and I think it will with Fedorov as well. I do think it is ironic that Fedorov has been demonized for exercising the very rights Lindsay fought so hard to give all hockey players... the fact we do not do the same for Shanahan shows just how much more important Fedorov was to the team.

Thanks for bringing up Sergei coming over from Russia and what it meant to the rest of the league, and the Red Wings in particular... it should not be overlooked.

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They offered him a contract and he had some personal issues, once solved he came back and voilá there was different contract. Fedorov did right thing when he left, Detroit management wanted to f*** with him so he left.

Sergei Fedorov is one of the best players ever. Period. His contributions to the Red Wings are huge. He deserves to have his number reitred. Every fan who boo him is stupid.

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What on earth is debateable about Red Kelly?

The comparison is both players left the team on horrible terms, Lindsay's being much worse, of course (at the time). Time and perspective can heal such wounds and I think it will with Fedorov as well. I do think it is ironic that Fedorov has been demonized for exercising the very rights Lindsay fought so hard to give all hockey players... the fact we do not do the same for Shanahan shows just how much more important Fedorov was to the team.

Thanks for bringing up Sergei coming over from Russia and what it meant to the rest of the league, and the Red Wings in particular... it should not be overlooked.

Didn't Sergei defect from Russia in the middle of the night? Didn't the Wings help him "escape" and whisked him away on a flight while the rest of his team was dining?

I dunno egroen. Sounds to me like Feds has a nasty habit of bailing on his teams when he doesn't get what he wants.

:P just messin' with ya

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You're welcome, Egroen. I read the whole thread, and well no one brought it, up and i also feel, like you, that that part of Sergei Fedorov's life is important and it needed to be said. and well....while I do not believe that time can necessarily heal all wounds, it can diminish them.

I do agree that Sergei was excerizing the same rights Teddy was, I can accept that. But like I wrote, I feel it was done on a much smaller scale and unlike Teddy's, wasn't really fighting for the betterment of all league players in that way. That part of your post I disagree with.

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But like I wrote, I feel it was done on a much smaller scale and unlike Teddy's, wasn't really fighting for the betterment of all league players in that way. That part of your post I disagree with.

I'm not sure where we disagree at all, actually. I have never implied Fedorov was any sort of hero for the way he left, just that both players left the team on bad terms.

just messin' with ya

Ok, that was funny!

Edited by egroen

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I'm not sure where we disagree at all, actually. I have never implied Fedorov was any sort of hero for the way he left, just that both players left the team on bad terms.

True.

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It has to work both ways. People talk about how you can't compare current numbers to guys like Howe, Lindsay, etc. b/c of how hard it was to play in that era. What about how it was for Fedorov? You're talking about (along with perhaps Mogilny and Bure, neither of which prolonged their stardom as long or accomplished as much as Fedorov) one of the first Russian stars to succeed in the NHL while the Cold War was still thawing and the xenophopic good ole boy network that hated commies and anything not from North America cheap shotted him behind plays. Fedorov's success was a key event in the complete globalization of the NHL.

Without Fedorov, the Red Wings were a one-man show, and Yzerman was just one of a handful of offensively-gifted players around the league that didn't play for a winner. It wasn't until Fedorov got here and became a star (and excellent 2-way player in his own right) that Yzerman was able to become the complete player that made him a legend. Long before Shanny was added as the "missing piece" that helped us win a Cup, Fedorov was the missing piece that took us from perennial loser to Western Conference powerhouse.

12 or 13 years with one team in the modern NHL is an ETERNITY. Three Cups is more than half of the franchises in the NHL will EVER see. Yet that resume isn't good enough for you because you don't like Sergei personally. Amazing.

By the way, he didn't leave for less money because he hated Detroit, he left (in large part) because he was secretly married to an underage Russian sex goddess, before Pavel Bure and like 20 other guy entered the picture and the marriage broke apart. He wanted a fresh start...big frigging deal. I didn't realize that a few years of Fedorov playing in Anaheim, Columbus, and Washington were enough to ruin the memories of three Stanley Cups for you. Jeez.

Edited by StormJH1

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God, if you guys had your way the Wings would have to build a new arena simply to hold all these retired numbers and would have to move to 3 digits for player numbers (that means between 100 and 999 for some of you who may be struggling with the concept of digits). If he stayed, then sure he would be worth considering as a an all time great Wing (and he would have had a boat load more points had he). He's been gone a long time. Get over it. We have enough washed out Wings hanging around these days as it is.

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God, if you guys had your way the Wings would have to build a new arena simply to hold all these retired numbers and would have to move to 3 digits for player numbers (that means between 100 and 999 for some of you who may be struggling with the concept of digits). If he stayed, then sure he would be worth considering as a an all time great Wing (and he would have had a boat load more points had he). He's been gone a long time. Get over it. We have enough washed out Wings hanging around these days as it is.

Wow, great points. <_<

You're right, if Fedorov ever gets up there it will only be a matter of time before Devereaux is up there as well.

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Did you know Sakic signed an offer sheet with the Rangers back in '97, while he was captain?

Huh? No, I didn't. Do you have proof?

*not saying you are lying, but man... didn't ever hear that one.

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Huh? No, I didn't. Do you have proof?

*not saying you are lying, but man... didn't ever hear that one.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...75BC0A961958260

Colorado obviously matched, but Sakic's deal was worth more per season, and all of it guaranteed money, for a player who was considered to be a lesser player than Fedorov. Fedorov averaged slightly less per season over twice as many years as Sakic on their respective offer sheet deal.

The breakdown:

Sakic's deal had a $15m signing bonus and a $2m base salary over three seasons, for a total of $21m guaranteed money.

Fedorov's deal had a $14m signing bonus and a $2m base salary over six seasons, plus a $14m bonus if the team were to make the conference finals in the first year. This made Fedorov's guaranteed salary approximately $4.3m per year, and his total average salary including the bonus was $6.3m per year. By comparison, the Wings had been offering Fedorov a long-term deal with an average salary of $4.5m and Fedorov had been asking for a long-term deal with an average salary of $5.5m.

Now tell me...would you have signed Sergei Fedorov in the summer of 1997 to a $5.5m per year, long term deal? I would have.

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If Sergei makes the Hall then I would consider him. If not, then no way.

Fedorov is going to be in the Hall of Fame for sure. He will most probably be inducted as soon as possible.

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http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...75BC0A961958260

Colorado obviously matched, but Sakic's deal was worth more per season, and all of it guaranteed money, for a player who was considered to be a lesser player than Fedorov. Fedorov averaged slightly less per season over twice as many years as Sakic on their respective offer sheet deal.

The breakdown:

Sakic's deal had a $15m signing bonus and a $2m base salary over three seasons, for a total of $21m guaranteed money.

Fedorov's deal had a $14m signing bonus and a $2m base salary over six seasons, plus a $14m bonus if the team were to make the conference finals in the first year. This made Fedorov's guaranteed salary approximately $4.3m per year, and his total average salary including the bonus was $6.3m per year. By comparison, the Wings had been offering Fedorov a long-term deal with an average salary of $4.5m and Fedorov had been asking for a long-term deal with an average salary of $5.5m.

Now tell me...would you have signed Sergei Fedorov in the summer of 1997 to a $5.5m per year, long term deal? I would have.

Nice details. I don't understand why they didn't sign him. He wasn't asking like $10 millions. It's obvious that when the Red Wings tried to mess with the contract next time, Feds just signed with the Ducks for less.

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Nice details. I don't understand why they didn't sign him. He wasn't asking like $10 millions. It's obvious that when the Red Wings tried to mess with the contract next time, Feds just signed with the Ducks for less.

Maybe the Wings didn't sign him because they knew a Salary Cap was coming. Looking back, it's better Fedorov wasn't signed or else we would have had serious Cap problems going into the 2005-06 season.

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Huh? No, I didn't. Do you have proof?

*not saying you are lying, but man... didn't ever hear that one.

Thanks for the link, Eva...

Yes, it is apprently not common knowledge, even among Colorado fans. Which is nice to bring up if you are ever arguing with one over who the better captain was :) . But my original point was those things happen, and I doubt anyone would question the merits of retiring Yzerman's jersey even if he had signed an offer sheet like Sakic had.

In hindsight, $10m was too much for Sergei at the time, and it would have been crippling with the salary cap... so it ended up working out just fine for the Red Wings ultimately, just like with Shanahan walking away. It was not a "betrayel" of epic proportions and I hope Wings fans get over it soon and stop booing someone who gave so much to this organization.

Edited by egroen

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Maybe the Wings didn't sign him because they knew a Salary Cap was coming. Looking back, it's better Fedorov wasn't signed or else we would have had serious Cap problems going into the 2005-06 season.

So maybe we should not sign Zetterberg, 'cos who knows what will be 2014? If you can sign your best player for relatively normal price, then you do it. With Fedorov we don't need Robert Lang, so those Cap problems would not have been so serious at all.

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Nice details. I don't understand why they didn't sign him. He wasn't asking like $10 millions. It's obvious that when the Red Wings tried to mess with the contract next time, Feds just signed with the Ducks for less.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...751C0A96E958260

I understand why some fans never forgave him for that, but I don't agree with it. What I don't get is why the story ends there. Yeah, there was a holdout, and it was ugly (even if Fedorov did deserve better). But he did come back, the team did win the '98 Cup, and I really don't know what he did from 1999-2003 to further qualify as a "prima donna".

Just because he "left" in 2003 doesn't mean it was "disrespectful" to the Wings. Sergei was just a kid when he was drafted in the 4th round, and then they plucked him from the Goodwill Games. He lived and played in Detroit for 13 seasons, but he never got say "I want to play there, or I'd like to live this part of the U.S." He also went through a very secretive and what was probably an extremely painful divorce [You try going to bed with Anna Kournikova for several years, lose it, and then come out 100% sane...seriously!]

I think that Detroiters are very vain as hockey fans and need to feel like their players appreciate them more than they appreciate their players. But that doesn't change the fact that Sergei deserves to be up in the rafters.

[Q: Would he be the first Russian to have their number retired? I'm not recalling any others right now]

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So maybe we should not sign Zetterberg, 'cos who knows what will be 2014? If you can sign your best player for relatively normal price, then you do it. With Fedorov we don't need Robert Lang, so those Cap problems would not have been so serious at all.

Ummm it's a different situation now. Going into the 2005-06 Season we had to eliminate about half of our payroll. Plus Fedorov's contact would have been 5 seaons long. This season would have been the last year.

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While he was a phenomenal player in his prime and an important part of the Wings' success, it's not happening. He was a problem in the locker room and he burned his bridges here (see certain Wings vets telling Babs they didn't want him returning at last year's trade deadline).

Edited by Dabura

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While he was a phenomenal player in his prime and an important part of the Wings' success, it's not happening. He was a problem in the locker room and he burned his bridges here (see certain Wings vets telling Babs they didn't want him returning at last year's trade deadline).

Link?

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Toward the bottom of the page.

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2008/03/bl...xing_fedor.html

Again, it's a safe assumption to suggest that, had Babcock been the only one to object to the trade, he would have been asked to reconsider. There was apparently some sort of consensus in the room that several people had major concerns about bringing Fedorov back to Detroit, and in all likelihood, the concerns were related to both Fedorov's on-ice performance and the substantial off-ice distractions that Fedorov faced during his later years as a Wing.

Fedorov's 91 shouldn't be raised to the rafters.

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