Bettman is going to lose die hard fans

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Where's the data on this showing the trailing team gets more PP's? I'd like to see it. Anybody have a link?

Also, there's something to be said for the trailing team working harder to tie up the game and we all know that the team working hardest tends to generate more PP's as the other team doesn't move their feet as quickly and is forced to take penalties.

Edited November 17, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[eva unit zero 271]

Where's the data on this showing the trailing team gets more PP's? I'd like to see it. Anybody have a link?

Also, there's something to be said for the trailing team working harder to tie up the game and we all know that the team working hardest tends to generate more PP's as the other team doesn't move their feet as quickly and is forced to take penalties.

GST, we all know the refs should put the whistles away in the third period like they used to so that teams can goon it up and knock out star players. That's real hockey.

[arnoldbuck 0]

I woke up and it is -3 outside!!! Damn you Bettman!!! Damn you!!!

[Donaldjr2448 43]

Here is my problem, When a team goes up 5 -2 and then all of a sudden that team with the lead is killing off 5 on 3's. This is exactly what happened in the Wings/Pens game lastweek. Lets all face it I know that we quit playing and blah blah blah, but so did Pittsburgh, until ***** ass Crosby whinned his way to 3 straight BS penalties!! I just think that its ironic that the team the NHL wants in the spotlight was getting embrassed again by the team the NHL hates, but loves to have in the spotlight because they make the most money, and then all of a sudden the pretty boy team gets a helping hand, I think that is what is driving fans away!!! Also, the 5 on 3 we got in Tampa that lead to our 2 goals was BS as well. Phil Esposito said it well during that game, "these guys are turning this into a joke". The players never know what to do anymore. Look I have no problem with calls that are called on both sides, but that is clearly not happening.

[rick zombo 3,739]

This season's product looks like basketball. In the sense that you can actually tune in with 5 minutes left in the third and watch the game be decided.

The really lame thing is that in the spring the whistles get put away like October-January never happened.

[PROBIE4PREZ 58]

From the wing's games ive watched its been the chinsy hook on the hands .. its not a hook on the hands per se but rather the stick touching the glove for a mili-sec.. maybe its going to be a learning curve for the guys and hopefully they will learn FAST b/c im not liking what i see even if we are on the winning end of it every night.

[GSBrooks13 204]

I wasnt too concerned about this at first when I was watching Wings games because I just figured If I started complaining it just sounds like Im complaining about my team being screwed despite being 11-2-3.. But then I started watching a lot more games since I havent been so busy lately and started looking at the scoreboards more closely on NHL.com and it is almost ridiculous how many games have been tied late in the 3rd on 1, 2 or now even 3 man advantages.. I think in the last week Darcy Tucker has tied 2 games up in the last minute of the game on a PPG.. I might be wrong there but its still crazy.. I dont know why they think everyone wants to see every game be a one goal game.. I mean yeah its noce to see a nice close, hard fought one goal game but when my team has played well enough to deserve a 2 or 3 goal lead at the end of the game its frustrating to see phantom calls take it to the shoot out..

[lfd250 1]

As much as I hate Bettass, one has to prove something before he can *****. Does it look like it yes. Do I agree with everyone, yes. However, third period guys are tired more grabbing and hooking. But you can add this to the list of why he has to go.

[OsGOD 3]

Not very "die hard" then were they?

[uk_redwing 495]

Sadly, eva is right,

It is indeed a sad day when eva is right.

[StaticWithABeat 0]

Impossible. The league would never stoop to shamelessly bastardizing the game in any way they think might appeal to the casual American sports viewer.

[Nick137 0]

Impossible. The league would never stoop to shamelessly bastardizing the game in any way they think might appeal to the casual American sports viewer.

NOOOOO never!! haha

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

A lot of things to consider regarding this overall as I think about it more.

I apologize for rehashing any previous original posts/thoughts first brought up...

I wouldn't be too surprised if something is going on "behind the scenes" to possibly keep games close etc., but I take a lot of things with a grain of salt and I try not to act too emotionally high/low about things even though plenty in life is annoying. With that said, it is easy to go into conspiracy theory mode and the like, but that's not my thing and not worth my time as thinking like that gives me heartburn. If there is something going on "behind the scenes" it is league wide and there's no conspiracy theory where ZOMG THE REFS ARE ALWAYS AGAINST THE RED WINGS (or *insert favorite team name here*)!!!!!!

Made a post about this already, but I'll rehash. Officiating isn't easy in any level of sport. I made my fair share of bad calls in basketball and soccer while in college, reffing people around my age in intramural leagues, and people wanted to take my head off just as much due to the competitve nature of sport. Some pretty solid athletes who obviously played and were decent when in high school, some slow and uncoordinated with beer bellies already developed. Asking referees to be perfect all the time is near impossible and it isn't realistic, but I think most people in here are generally understanding that you are going to goof a call up every now and then. The inconsistency is still frustrating, and tonight's game is another example. However after my first game officiating, I gained a new respect of what refs of any level have to try to deal with in a fast-paced game and the things they deal with both from players and coaches and fans. It is a hard gig.

Bettman...no matter how much we dislike him as fans, he reports to the owners of the league first. He has to please them first. If the owners are satisifed with Bettman no matter how inconsistent the officiating might be or how frustrated fans might be, Bettman is doing his job. Now, that's not to say that fans are a big pile of dogs**t in this whole equation all the time. In any business, whether it is professional sports or running a pet shop, you have stakeholders which are important to the business. Fans definitely make up this business of hockey/professional sports, but they aren't first in the food chain with regards to Bettman in this situation. The owners are. Make the most important stakholders happy first, and those are the owners. Is it fair to the fans? Not always, but life is rarely fair these days.

Sometimes I wander though if Bettman is just in complete denial of what fans want. Recent schedule modification is a good example. Pretty much everybody and their cousin who is an NHL fan wanted everybody playing each other at least once I think. But Bettman more/less says that they changed this schedule as a "last resort" and wanted to keep things the way they were. I could be wrong though as I am not the smartest nail in the toolbox.

And unfortunately, when you are the head honcho of an organization, you typically get more credit sometimes than necessary, or more blame than intended. Bettman is far from my favorite, but sometimes negative things happen that are beyond his control. Kinda like the LGW Scapegoats for better/worse (always worse).

With die hard fans, I still think it would take a lot, lot more for some to abandon the sport.

[Hank 0]

What if major league sports operated like a little mini government?

There are 30 teams in the NHL, and their owners should each get to vote on what goes on. Such as the comissioner needs to be elected every few years. And the votes could be weighted like the electoral college, where the owners who have been around longer or whose team brings the nhl the most profit (from jersey sales, tickets, etc.) should have their votes worth a little more. The refs should be certified and also elected by the owners. This way, the comissioner and referees need to be on their best behavior constantly and not be assholes and actually know what they're doing or else they risk not being reelected.

Just a thought.

The owners decide who's the commissioner. From what I've read it sounds like Bettman has a great majority of the owners behind him. It's the reason why he got a long extension a couple of years ago.

Make no mistake, Bettman is the owners puppet. He does what they want.

Regarding the complaint on the PP's when a team is down, this has always happened in hockey since the beginning of time.

If a team got penalized and scored on, you can guarantee that the other team would get mutlipe PP opportunities until the game was tied up.

I'm actually a lot happier with the officiating this year than the past 3. I felt all of the calls last night were good ones.

[Holmstrom96Screens 0]

it's safe to say that I think my seven year old cousin and her cat could do a better job of nhl comssioner than Bettman

[auxlepli 17]

I posted the below comment in another thread, but it's apropos here too.

There seems to be a lot of complaining about the game and about a lot of little things surrounding the game. Tweaks can be made to improve the NHL-game, but this is a great time to be an NHL fan in my opinion. Overall things are better now than they were when I first started watching.

"It's amazing some of the things that people would say (on a message board) or yell at you of a personal nature," (Rich) Rodriguez said Monday. "You almost want to tell them, 'Get a life.'"

[WingNut 25 5]

When the players themselves are speaking up, you know something isn't right. This is the NHL. These guys don't piss and moan like pro athletes in other sports. This is an issue of integrity. If there is some "behing the scenes agenda" to keep games competitive by penalizing teams in the league then this could be a much bigger issue than most realize.

[auxlepli 17]

Other than Chris Chelios, what other player has complained?

[wingslionstigers 12]

It isn't effecting the out come of games as much as we would like to think. The teams that should be on top still are right? Most games end up pretty close to even in power play chances. To tell you the truth of it all, the better team usually has a better power play % and penalty kill %. So doesn't that really mean if theres 20 penaltys in a game and both sides got somewhat an even ammount of chances. That the better team will have an even greater advantage? Something to think about.

[Dabura 12,232]

This season's product looks like basketball. In the sense that you can actually tune in with 5 minutes left in the third and watch the game be decided.

This.

A message has been made: the first two periods are fairly meaningless. Why, then, should I bother watching them?

[auxlepli 17]

Other than Chris Chelios, what other player has complained?

Anyone? Bueller?

Something "______ over nothing."

Big deal over nothing.

This is a non-issue. Next!

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Refs make themselves a factor again tonight in the St. Louis-Ducks game. The Blues are up by a goal and they call a very late hook. The blues player literally had one hand on his stick and tapped Selanne around the gloves, they call the hook.

The Ducks pull the goalie and have a 6-on-4 powerplay, crash the net. Cory Perry plows into Legace and Niedermayer scores with less than a second left. Now we're in OT.

The call on Selanne was unbelievably weak for the last few minutes of a game.

[eva unit zero 271]

Refs make themselves a factor again tonight in the St. Louis-Ducks game. The Blues are up by a goal and they call a very late hook. The blues player literally had one hand on his stick and tapped Selanne around the gloves, they call the hook.

The Ducks pull the goalie and have a 6-on-4 powerplay, crash the net. Cory Perry plows into Legace and Niedermayer scores with less than a second left. Now we're in OT.

The call on Selanne was unbelievably weak for the last few minutes of a game.

I have to imagine my opinion on this is unpopular...but I prefer when they call the same chincy stick fouls ten seconds into the first or with ten seconds to go. A penalty is a penalty is a penalty. So long as it's called the same way each time, and the same way both ways, then I am fine with when penalties are being called. If it's genuinely not a penalty? That's different. But there shouldn't be different ways of calling penalties for the first period, second period, third period, and overtime period of the regular season and then more rulebooks for the postseason. The rules stay the same; if you barely slash a guy on your first shift on the first game and it's a hook, it should still be called in triple overtime of game seven of the Cup finals.

Normally, I consider you one of the more knowledgeable posters harold...but you missed one thing. If refs called a game inconsistently based on the clock, THAT is what made the refs a factor. Not the fact that they called the penalties. If you commit an action that was called earlier in the game or series by the same ref, you should expect to go to the box. You can see on players' faces and by their body language when penalties are called that they KNOW what is being called even before they are told, even if it's not obvious. Perhaps I see this more than most LGW posters having been a hockey ref, but players know when they are up against the rules and know when they cross them.

[Dabura 12,232]

A penalty is a penalty is a penalty. So long as it's called the same way each time

From what I've seen this season (and really, the last several seasons, as I think this has been a rising trend that is only now starting to become fairly obvious), a lot of these late calls are "anomalous"; they're not consistent with the calls that have been made through the first two and a half periods. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's why people are so upset over them -- they're made in response to the scoreboard.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I have to imagine my opinion on this is unpopular...but I prefer when they call the same chincy stick fouls ten seconds into the first or with ten seconds to go. A penalty is a penalty is a penalty. So long as it's called the same way each time, and the same way both ways, then I am fine with when penalties are being called. If it's genuinely not a penalty? That's different. But there shouldn't be different ways of calling penalties for the first period, second period, third period, and overtime period of the regular season and then more rulebooks for the postseason. The rules stay the same; if you barely slash a guy on your first shift on the first game and it's a hook, it should still be called in triple overtime of game seven of the Cup finals.

Normally, I consider you one of the more knowledgeable posters harold...but you missed one thing. If refs called a game inconsistently based on the clock, THAT is what made the refs a factor. Not the fact that they called the penalties. If you commit an action that was called earlier in the game or series by the same ref, you should expect to go to the box. You can see on players' faces and by their body language when penalties are called that they KNOW what is being called even before they are told, even if it's not obvious. Perhaps I see this more than most LGW posters having been a hockey ref, but players know when they are up against the rules and know when they cross them.

To be clear, it wasn't so much that I thought they should swallow their whistles late in the game. It's that the inconsistency of the calls is even more annoying, and even more of a deciding factor in the game when it happens in the final minutes. The play was a one-handed reach that tapped Selanne's gloves. They had let more than that go all night, but decided to whistle this one.

Not surprisingly, the Ducks were down a goal at that time so it gave them a great chance to tie the game up in the final minutes, which they did. To me it was another case of a team getting handed a chance by the refs late in the game to tie it up.

Thankfully the Ducks lost in OT, but they didn't deserve the charity point. The Blues soundly outplayed them all night.