Zetterberg without Datsyuk?

[Wingsallwin 0]

Well as a topic says, I really still want to see the line combo by Hank and Pasha.

Pasha has scored more goals than Hank but I still think Hank is a better scorer than Dats.

After Babcock made some line changes, but he did not try to put Dats and Hank on the same line.

But because Hank does not play with Dats, seems like no our player can support Hank. The only guy who can set the scoring chances for Hank is Dats.

I hope Babs put ZDH line again for only even few games...

[Grim 5]

why? I feel Hossa is better with Zetterberg anyway.

[TheOwl 77]

Pasha has scored more goals than Hank but I still think Hank is a better scorer than Dats.

Perhaps, but not this season. Look at the goals Datysuk has scored. He's played miles better then Z in almost every area of the game. They should put them back together for sure. Hossa can play with Franzen and Cleary.

[Echolalia 2,961]

The paranoid loser in me wants to think that Zetterberg is intentionally not lined with Datsyuk to lower his numbers, so Holland can barter for less on his contract.

But my mind is still on those horrible logos, so I'm not thinking clear yet

[WingNut 25 5]

The word you are looking for here is "balance." Nuff said.

[under_par_00 45]

I would like to give Filppula a chance at center to set up Z on the wing. But we know that will never happen.

Maybe Hudler could be given another shot at the 2nd line on Zetterberg's wing?

[Booster313 138]

Babcocks two hottest forwards this year have been Datsyuk and Hossa so instead of having them on the same line he is splitting them up. I think the effort is also there to try and jump start Zetterberg, that and I think that the Wings probably told Hossa he would be playing with one of the two most of the season. I remember reading something about him asking what role he might have on this team last year.

[eva unit zero 271]

Perhaps, but not this season. Look at the goals Datysuk has scored. He's played miles better then Z in almost every area of the game. They should put them back together for sure. Hossa can play with Franzen and Cleary.

Dats has not been better defensively; Z has been used as the shutdown center most of the time. Dats has a better +/- because most of the season he has played on a line with another elite two-way forward and the league's best crease crasher. Babcock, for whatever reason, doesn't want to take advantage of the fact that Hudler has many of the same kinds of offensive talents that Datsyuk does and Hudler could perhaps develop the same kind of chemistry as Dats has with Z.

Here's how it breaks down simply. Of the Wings' top four offensive forwards, two are better suited as playmakers (Dats and Hudler) and two are better suited as goal scorers (Zetterberg and Hossa) while three of the four can play center and wing capably. SO the Wings should be using one of the two following line combinations for the top two:

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Franzen/Hudler/Hossa

OR

Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Hossa

Hudler/Zetterberg/Franzen

The second set has more balanced lines; the first set has the utterly dominant line we all love plus a Franzen/Hudler/Hossa line that would be the first line on 20 or more teams.

[ComradeWasabi 109]

Babs had the Hudler/Z/Franzen line going in the preseason and it was productive, but it slowed to a grinding halt once the regular season began. He shuffled the middle two lines at that point.

[Reilly 24]

The paranoid loser in me wants to think that Zetterberg is intentionally not lined with Datsyuk to lower his numbers, so Holland can barter for less on his contract.

You're not the only one.

But if that were the case, they should probably move Franzen to the 4th line and start scratching Hudler some nights, too.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

You're not the only one.

But if that were the case, they should probably move Franzen to the 4th line and start scratching Hudler some nights, too.

And hopefully this will never happen as it would be a pretty big joke this season given how well Hudler is producing right now.

[dat's sick 1,002]

I think the lines look pretty good right now actually.

I want to see the ZDH-line again as much as the next person, but I don't think there's much reason to start shuffling the lines around right now.

We still have 6 wins in the last 7.

And I wouldn't be surprised if Pasha let's off the gas a little bit soon, and Hank starts pouring in the points together with Hossa.

That's the thing with this team, we want all the big players to produce a lot of points, but if they all did we would score 10 goals every game.

The only real problem with the first three lines is Cleary imo. If the third guy in that line was more of a playmaker (a la Hudler) it would probably work a little better.

But switching Cleary and Hudler is not something I want to do since the 3rd line is working so well now.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Babs had the Hudler/Z/Franzen line going in the preseason and it was productive, but it slowed to a grinding halt once the regular season began. He shuffled the middle two lines at that point.

They played 1 and a half games together! If Babs had waited one more period, they might've put up a pair of goals and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Babcock is kind of an idiot when it comes to Hudler. The reason he gave when he bumped Hudler off of Hank's line was that "Hudler wasn't shooting enough." Yet Hudler is ideally used setting up Hank.

Like Eva said, its glaringly obvious that Hank is NOT best used as the primary playmaker on his line (which is the role hes playing with Hossa and Cleary right now) and Hudler is the 2nd best playmaker on this team. Its also the reason Datsyuk and Hank worked out so well together. Hank knows where to go to get the goal, but how can he do that when hes not playing with a guy who can get him the puck in the tough spots?

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Babcock is kind of an idiot when it comes to Hudler.

Kind of? I remember Hudler was the talk of the Internets in 2004 when Dave Lewis was running the show. How did it take so long to get this guy into the line up? I love the guy, but Mike has downright mismanaged the Hudler situation, right up until Hudler made it so he was impossible to ignore.

[dat's sick 1,002]

One thing I have to say is that Hank's abilities as a playmaker seem to be underrated here.. the guy can pass the puck.

It's not his fault that Hossa is hitting everything except the back of the net on his passes.

[Opie 308]

Can I use a highlight from 89 to show that if Stevie and Hossa played together Hossa would be the reason Stevie did not get more assists or stats? I mean it is as comparable as the above video.

If you are saying that Hossa has been set up by Hank and has not been burying the biscuit, I have an idea show a video of Hossa shooting wide, off of the post, off the goalie, off the netting, anything involving a pass from Hank that Hossa should have buried and didn't!

Edit:

Otherwise I have to go with Hank on this one here and chalk his less than Zetterberg stats up to the fact that he is not playing as well as he has in the past. I mean I guess him saying it to the Versus crew was his way of covering up for Hossa's poor play?

Edited January 14, 2009 by Opie

[dat's sick 1,002]

I mostly picked that vid because it's one of the most beautiful goals ever.. obviously Hossa would have scored on a pass like that.

I'm just saying Zetterberg is a good playmaker, he makes a lot of great passes and he's imo better than Hudler and not that far behind Datsyuk in that regard.

Sure, Hossa has scored 21 goals so far, but he could definitely have a few more, he's had a little bad luck on some chances.

Just look at the chance last game when Z passed him and he had an open net, but the puck hit his skate and before going into the goal Hossa's own stick deflected it wide. Z has had some fine chances himself and has hit everything but the back of the net.

Point: he's creating chances and could easily have like 10 points more than he has. I'm not worried that Hossa and Z aren't going to start producing more soon.

[steveyzerman 0]

Can I use a highlight from 89 to show that if Stevie and Hossa played together Hossa would be the reason Stevie did not get more assists or stats? I mean it is as comparable as the above video.

If you are saying that Hossa has been set up by Hank and has not been burying the biscuit, I have an idea show a video of Hossa shooting wide, off of the post, off the goalie, off the netting, anything involving a pass from Hank that Hossa should have buried and didn't!

Edit:

Otherwise I have to go with Hank on this one here and chalk his less than Zetterberg stats up to the fact that he is not playing as well as he has in the past. I mean I guess him saying it to the Versus crew was his way of covering up for Hossa's poor play?

Sure. Let's put a video of THAT on YouTube. That would get a lot of hits... Oh.

Why in the hell would anybody put that up on YouTube?

His point was that Hank makes sweet plays. He posted a video of Hank making a sweet play the sweetest play I've ever seen. Makes sense to me.

Edited January 14, 2009 by steveyzerman

[wingslionstigers 12]

I think hes just trying to keep things mixed up until post season. Why let the other teams get a chance to figure out our trio when we dont have to? I wouldnt be surprised to see Dats and Z together following our first post season loss.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Mainly I just think the second line has never really had a lot of chemistry this season. Babs has started shifting things around a bit finally, but I still haven't seen anything click like that top line. Even for not clicking though, they're still pretty damn good.

As for Hudler, has anyone ever considered the possibility that Babcock is using Hudler exactly right and that's why he's so damn productive relative to his ice time? I'd be willing to try him on the 2nd line because he's got great playmaking sense, but it's quite possible that he's best where he is. Most arguments for Hudler involve the bad assumption that more ice time = more points.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Most arguments for Hudler involve the bad assumption that more ice time = more points.

Unless that extra ice time were on the PK, I'd say that's a pretty sound assumption. Points don't scale linearly with ice time, but they obviously do scale.

[ComradeWasabi 109]

They played 1 and a half games together! If Babs had waited one more period, they might've put up a pair of goals and we wouldn't be having this discussion. Babcock is kind of an idiot when it comes to Hudler. The reason he gave when he bumped Hudler off of Hank's line was that "Hudler wasn't shooting enough." Yet Hudler is ideally used setting up Hank.

Like Eva said, its glaringly obvious that Hank is NOT best used as the primary playmaker on his line (which is the role hes playing with Hossa and Cleary right now) and Hudler is the 2nd best playmaker on this team. Its also the reason Datsyuk and Hank worked out so well together. Hank knows where to go to get the goal, but how can he do that when hes not playing with a guy who can get him the puck in the tough spots?

You're probably right about that. I just remember that Mule-Z-Rex was a line to start and that it got changed, I don't remember how long they were together.

At this point, with the juggling that's been going on, there's no harm in trying any combination of forwards beyond Pav's line.

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

I am starting to like the way the team is coming together a bit more than at the start of the year. We looked pretty bad despite our record in the first 25 games and one thing I have noticed over the last month is the play of Datsyuk. For me, I would leave that line alone and if Zetterberg isn't playing up to his offensive potential well than who cares as long as the team is still playing their best hockey of the season over the last 4 weeks.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Unless that extra ice time were on the PK, I'd say that's a pretty sound assumption. Points don't scale linearly with ice time, but they obviously do scale.

I don't think it is, especially when you weigh in the potential for the puck to end up in your own net.

You could make the reasonable argument that less ice time means he can go like hell on the limited shifts he gets.

Edited January 15, 2009 by haroldsnepsts

[blikst 1]

I am starting to like the way the team is coming together a bit more than at the start of the year. We looked pretty bad despite our record in the first 25 games and one thing I have noticed over the last month is the play of Datsyuk. For me, I would leave that line alone and if Zetterberg isn't playing up to his offensive potential well than who cares as long as the team is still playing their best hockey of the season over the last 4 weeks.

I agree. If the teams are winning and playing good just leave it even if Z isn't playing up to his potential. Some people seems to think that Zetterbergs decline is mostly because Dats abcense, but I still claim that he is just slumping and once he get back on track you could see his scoring go up dramatically.