Chris Osgood- What do we do?

[Ms_Hockey 0]

Osgood was traded away because the Wings had an opportunity to sign arguably the best goaltender ever for a stacked cup run. If you don't recall, Ozzie had been one of the best and most successful 'tenders of that era when he was traded, and he continued to prove such with winning records and SV%s of around 9.10 on god awful Blues and Islanders teams.

I'd like to say we're seeing that Ozzie right now.. we aren't, we're seeing about a 9.0% Ozzie, with the 8.85 SV% attributable to the defense giving up huge scoring chances in front of him. Hopefully, by playoff time, we see playoff Ozzie, which is capable of being a 9.25-9.30 SV% monster.

Wasn't there more that went into it? From my understanding, he had let in a more than easy goal from the blue line - with nobody standing anywhere near him - and nobody could believe it actually went in.

Ozzie used to play like Hasek. He would almost always go down on the ice. Worked out for Hasek.. but not as well for Ozzie. After he was traded, he was sent to some goalie training camp to learn how to butterfly before we took him back.

I could be wrong.. but I think his performance had to do with him being traded as well.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

Say what you want about Osgood and his play.

How is it not clear to 100% of the hockey World that Conklin has earned the #1 role in the last month? I don't even know how this is debateable.

Nobody said it was up for debate. If this were the playoffs, I'm sure Babs would be reacting much differently.

As it is, it's not the playoffs. It's the regular season.. and all we're fighting for is making it into the playoffs - which we will. So Babs probably wanted to see if Ozzie could handle the pressure. He also probably wants to give him time, throughout the rest of the regular season, to try to get in touch with his game again.. so I'm sure he'll continue to rotate.

[TheOwl 77]

^ That's exactly why he played Ozzie, but it back fired big time. How many more chances can you give him? The problem with Ozzy is, he's un-tradable and still has 2 years on his contract. They should just buy it out over the post season if Conklin becomes the man in the play-offs.

It must be mad frustrating for the forwards who play huge every game, scoring the most goals in the league, and come out short due to bad goaltending. The Wings have the opposite problem to most teams in the league, they never have trouble scoring, but their goalie (Osgood) can never make a timely save. Just get in a decent goalie for a few million. The D can't stop the puck everytime, and when you're goalie lets in consistantly 3+ goals a game, no wonder they have no confidence in front of him.

Edited January 19, 2009 by TheOwl

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

Nobody said it was up for debate. If this were the playoffs, I'm sure Babs would be reacting much differently.

As it is, it's not the playoffs. It's the regular season.. and all we're fighting for is making it into the playoffs - which we will. So Babs probably wanted to see if Ozzie could handle the pressure. He also probably wants to give him time, throughout the rest of the regular season, to try to get in touch with his game again.. so I'm sure he'll continue to rotate.

I see your point but the way Conklin has played recently I don't see how you CAN'T play him at least every 2/3 starts. Reputation should never allow you earn/keep a spot and that's what seems to be happening right now and I don't agree with it at all.

[Wingsallwin 0]

well, okay maybe I was too over reacted on Ozzie after yesterday's game. But here is my point. We have seen Ozzie's play for long time since 1990s. But the thing is now Ozzie is in the situation of facing his lowest career sv percentage and GAA.

I know people here like Ozzie so I did last season because he was unbelievably good during both regular season and playoff.

What I am really recognizing now is that this season's our goalie situation looks totally similar with our last season's playoff. Hasek and Osgood both were great in the regular season but because Hasek struggled in the playoffs, Ozzie started since then in the playoff, which has only strong teams left, well not all teams are strong but no joking team like the Isles.

That's is what I see right now between Ozzie and Conks. Conks showed a good performance against strong teams since the middle of November. Got 5 SO already. Won the games against the Sharks, Hawks, Flames, and so other teams.

You guys said Ozzie faced too many shots. I know that is the part of our defenses problem. But do you guys remember when Conks faced like almost 40shots against the Hawks when we beat them 4:0?

And I do not mind how some people say Ozzie played good after we win games like against the f***s just few days ago. Yes, Ozzie was good in that game but it showed Ozzie is extremely inconsistent this season.

In my opinion, we have to make decisions on our goalies. I agree we rotate both Ozzie and Conks. I hoepfully want to believe the game against the Sharks was the last test by Babs on Ozzie whether Ozzie can stay hot against strong teams or not. But in a bad way to say, Ozzie failed the test really badly.

Hopefully, just put Conks on games against strong teams and put Ozzie against just middle level teams or weak teams until when Ozzie got back his confidence.

I hope to see Conks on the game against the Coyotes. They are playing pretty well lately so let's see what is going to happen.

[Kevvie 0]

I would like to think that Babs has the situation under control, but at this point I'm not so sure. I have always been a big fan of Ozzie's, but Conklin is showing him how to do it...Red Wings style!

Having said that, I also think there is a serious issue with defense these days. Too many shots going through, and maybe Ozzie isn't used to that yet. I think the defense needs to start shutting people down just a bit more. Maybe that will take a little pressure of him so he can find his edge again. He CAN be a really good g'tender, so I say give some time before nailing him to the cross.

...just my opinion...

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

Osgood should be the backup, he fills that role well.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

In all fairness, Ozzie has been mediocre the first half of the season. I'm not that blind.

However, I really think he has been improving since Jan. 1, but the flaky defense and his GAA paint the wrong picture.

Ty is playing well, no doubt about that.

But let's not make him something he isn't: A bonafide starter or someone has can carry a team far into a postseason.

On every team has been, he's never been the starter.

Ditto - if we are going to pin our season and PO hopes on Conklin - that is not a good sign.

It might be good for Ozzie to have some competition - he definitely needs to improve - although I too think he has slowly improved since he came back from his hiatus.

Conklin also gives up terrible goals routinely - I was at the Avs game - 3 in a row in the first period. The Hawks on Jan 1 - 3 in a row the first period also. While he plays well at times (like Oz) I'm just not seeing this knight in shining armor some people are picturing. We certainly have goaltending issues - but I am not convinced a career backup GT is going to save us.

Also, comparing playing vs. the Kings to playing vs. the Sharks is like comparing apples and oranges.

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

Ditto - if we are going to pin our season and PO hopes on Conklin - that is not a good sign.

It might be good for Ozzie to have some competition - he definitely needs to improve - although I too think he has slowly improved since he came back from his hiatus.

Conklin also gives up terrible goals routinely - I was at the Avs game - 3 in a row in the first period. The Hawks on Jan 1 - 3 in a row the first period also. While he plays well at times (like Oz) I'm just not seeing this knight in shining armor some people are picturing. We certainly have goaltending issues - but I am not convinced a career backup GT is going to save us.

Also, comparing playing vs. the Kings to playing vs. the Sharks is like comparing apples and oranges.

While I agree that Conklin hasn't had the greatest track record as a goaltender, I don't like how everyone writes him off so easily. Over the past 5 years, goaltending has really become erratic with who is good and who is s***ty.

Just look at the following guys:

Theodore, Ward, Huet, Khabibulin, Gerber, Giguere, Thomas, Roloson, Kipprusoff, etc. etc.

All of these goalies have gone from MVP type play to mediocrity in recent years, so why can't a guy like Conklin do something similar? I mean look at Tim Thomas, he has had one of the highest save percentages in the last two years, did anyone even know who he was before last year?

I'm not saying that Conklin should be getting a Vezina but why shouldn't we give him the reins, he seems to have deserved them. I'm sure a lot of people didn't believe in Cam Ward when they lost two straight games to Montreal and threw the young Ward in goal with no track record.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Osgood should be the backup, he fills that role well.

like last playoffs?

good god people here have short memories.

[TheOwl 77]

like last playoffs?

good god people here have short memories.

That was a little different. He was the back-up, then Hasek melted down. They were both equally solid in the regular season, so they road him to the end, and he did play amazing. He rose to the occasion when their was no alternative. I think this year will be exactly the same, they'll go with Osgood for a few games, a melt down will occur, and they'll ride the "back-up" Conklin.

It's not like Osgood just had a bad game, he's had a few dozen bad games this season. He's practically last in the league in SV% and GAA, bottom 5. You could call it a slump, but a half season long slump is a little extreme.

Conklin on the other hand is in the top 10 in all those categories. Ride a top 10 goalie? Or hope a bottom 5 goalie will get better. Conklin is playing better then Luongo at this point, much better. He's a keeper. It's the same damn team, with two goaltenders playing at complete opposites of the spectrum. Why keep going back to Ozzy? Even Ozzy at his best wouldn't be playing better then how Conklin is now.

Edited January 19, 2009 by TheOwl

[AtomicPunk 296]

By the way, Luongo let in another 6 goals tonight vs. COLUMBUS. Just FYI.

He must suck too.

Can we give San Jose a LITTLE credit?

Edited January 19, 2009 by AtomicPunk

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Patience, patience, patience. Wait and see how this plays out without doing anything drastic or for the sake of it or "exciting" just because it might be "exciting" in the headlines for a day or two.

This is all just groundwork for April and May for the playoffs. Both goaltenders have plenty of games left before then to try to play at the top of their game when the most important part of the season comes around. Plenty of time, which means they'll probably have plenty of good games, and there's a good bet there might be a stinker or two out there.

This team is making the playoffs and is good enough that it doesn't have to worry about their guys playing at a 150% level all the time. Not that I want these guys to play half-assed out there, but it is bound to happen every once in a while in an 80+ game season and this team isn't in danger of missing the playoffs at anytime soon.

I'm fine with both the goalies, these are the goalies we are probably going into the playoffs with. No need to fret or lose sleep over this right now when it isn't April/May yet.

[edicius 3,269]

like last playoffs?

good god people here have short memories.

Kind of like how many people here keep insisting that Ozzie was traded to the Isles. He wasn't.

When Hasek was signed, Ozzie was put on waivers. The Isles claimed him off waivers.

[puckloo39 5,686]

I will certainly agree about people here having short memories about player contributions to this team and winning. That's an understatement.

[Doc Holiday 0]

I don't buy the "defense hasn't been as good in front of Osgood" argument. To begin with, Conklin has faced more shots than Osgood has on average this season, and secondly, the defense is going to have a harder time when the goalie is giving up so many rebounds. THAT is the reason, if anything, that the defense looks more chaotic in front of Osgood. Osgood's bugaboo this season has been rebounds, rebounds, rebounds.

Lets talk about recent events, considering they are the most important and are more indicative of how well each goaltender will play in the short term.

Osgood has had more shots against him the past 3 games than Conklin. By a long shot. 41 and 49 shots does not happen in Red Wing hockey and Conklin has not faced that kind of pressure yet (correct me if I am wrong here). And if the defense does its job then neither goaltender will have to face those shots.

Conklin had more shots against in the first half of the season, and he did play better than Osgood. EVERYBODY knows that.

[HomeNugget 2]

Kind of like how many people here keep insisting that Ozzie was traded to the Isles. He wasn't.

When Hasek was signed, Ozzie was put on waivers. The Isles claimed him off waivers.

They also like to believe that his stint with the Islanders exposed him as a bad goalie. Nevermind the fact that with Osgood in net the Islanders won twice as many games as the previous season and made the playoffs for the first time in eight years. Osgood's numbers were also similar to the numbers he put up in Detroit.

I know Osgood hasn't been playing well at all this year, but I'm not ready to give up on him just yet. With only a few exceptions, he has always raised his game in the playoffs. I'm confident Osgood will come through when we need him the most.

[Datsyerberger 279]

Wasn't there more that went into it? From my understanding, he had let in a more than easy goal from the blue line - with nobody standing anywhere near him - and nobody could believe it actually went in.

Ozzie used to play like Hasek. He would almost always go down on the ice. Worked out for Hasek.. but not as well for Ozzie. After he was traded, he was sent to some goalie training camp to learn how to butterfly before we took him back.

I could be wrong.. but I think his performance had to do with him being traded as well.

Not really. He did let a shot like that in... more than one, in fact. He's been known to let in the occasional long range stinker. But, if you dig for dirt, you can find some stinkers that almost any great goalie has let it, be it due to their depth perception or attitude (Patty Waaaagh Statue of Liberty, anyone?).

Again, the Wings got rid of them simply because they had a chance to grab Hasek, who at his peak, is probably the most impressive goaltender to ever play the game.

Ozzie, meanwhile, dragged a horrible Islanders team kicking and screaming into the playoffs. Ozzie has never had a losing season, even playing on garbage like the Isles and St Louis.. in fact, he put up a respectable .910 SV% on both of those teams, which is rather impressive if you realize the quality of scoring chances he was facing on those teams as opposed to what he had faced in Detroit. He also played a career high 67 games on that St. Louis team, and had a 2.24 GAA. That's comparable to Brodeur's 99-00 season, where he posted a .910 SV% and a 2.24 GAA in 72 games, on a NJ team that was, frankly, a lot better.

But anyhow, enough with the pointing out that Osgood has actually had an impressive career.. LGW might overload. Besides, this thread is about how he's doing now, which.. well, isn't up to those levels, but fortunately is improving.

[edicius 3,269]

They also like to believe that his stint with the Islanders exposed him as a bad goalie. Nevermind the fact that with Osgood in net the Islanders won twice as many games as the previous season and made the playoffs for the first time in eight years. Osgood's numbers were also similar to the numbers he put up in Detroit.

Ditto for his time with the Blues. When Osgood joined the Blues, that ship was beginning to sink, but he still managed to carry them into the postseason. When Osgood left...well, the Blues haven't reached the postseason since.

[Datsyerberger 279]

Ditto for his time with the Blues. When Osgood joined the Blues, that ship was beginning to sink, but he still managed to carry them into the postseason. When Osgood left...well, the Blues haven't reached the postseason since.

There's a quote from Keith Tuh-kuh-tchkakhachuk at the end of that season that describes how clutch Ozzie was for them and how they don't make it into the playoffs without him (he was VERY solid for them in the game they needed to win to become the 8th seed).

Also, I remember reading a quote from an Isles fan about when they picked up Ozzie, that everyone's (that is, Isles fans) phones were buzzing as they called eachother exclaiming "We got Ozzie! We got Ozzie!". Sometimes its hard to appreciate greatness until you've had your face smeared in s***. Us DRW fans can be a bunch of spoiled f***s as of late.

[Doc Holiday 0]

Also in case anyone wonders:

Osgood's s% and GAA improved his first year of the Isles.

Osgood's s% and GAA got worse his first year back in Detroit.

[SDavis35 140]

Conklin also gives up terrible goals routinely - I was at the Avs game - 3 in a row in the first period. The Hawks on Jan 1 - 3 in a row the first period also. While he plays well at times (like Oz) I'm just not seeing this knight in shining armor some people are picturing. We certainly have goaltending issues - but I am not convinced a career backup GT is going to save us.

didn't he have to go pee at those times? Can't have THAT in the playoffs!

[egroen 384]

Whoa! Hold the phone...

Has anyone stopped to consider Conklin's stats for the playoffs?

10.00 GAA and a .667 SV%

[Ms_Hockey 0]

I see your point but the way Conklin has played recently I don't see how you CAN'T play him at least every 2/3 starts. Reputation should never allow you earn/keep a spot and that's what seems to be happening right now and I don't agree with it at all.

Every coach coaches differently. You and I may not agree with Babs' decision to keep rotating back & forth - but it's his decision. I can fully understand why he played Ozzie in the SJ game on Saturday night. If I were him, I would take that and NOT play him against high intensity/skill level teams for the rest of the regular season. Put him in against "easier" teams.

As long as this is all figured out by April, I won't have much to say. Until then, I'll just trust Babs to find the right formula to get the goaltending back where it needs to be.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

^ That's exactly why he played Ozzie, but it back fired big time. How many more chances can you give him? The problem with Ozzy is, he's un-tradable and still has 2 years on his contract. They should just buy it out over the post season if Conklin becomes the man in the play-offs.

It must be mad frustrating for the forwards who play huge every game, scoring the most goals in the league, and come out short due to bad goaltending. The Wings have the opposite problem to most teams in the league, they never have trouble scoring, but their goalie (Osgood) can never make a timely save. Just get in a decent goalie for a few million. The D can't stop the puck everytime, and when you're goalie lets in consistantly 3+ goals a game, no wonder they have no confidence in front of him.

Playing Ozzie was a 50-50 chance for Babs - and there's no doubt that he knew it. We ALL knew it. Ozzie can show up big some games and he can completely flounder during others. However, I don't think Babs is dumb enough to let this continue into the playoffs. (I hope.)

The forwards (and other players on the team, for that matter) probably react in one of two days. They either get frustrated and blame the goalie or they take it as a team loss and don't pit blame on anybody. My guess is that in professional sports, they don't blame each other for their losses. I don't think anybody goes in the locker room and starts rounding on Osgood for not making the saves. There are people on that team who are best friends with Ozzie on and off the ice. My feeling is that it's probably a collective blame that they each take.

Ozzie CAN make timely saves - he just doesn't do it often. And he rarely does it under intense pressure. In those situation, work Conklin. See how he fares. If Conklin can't handle the pressure either - then you're probably right. It's probably time for us to start scouting for a new goalie.

I agree with you on mostly everything - but I don't think the team blames Osgood for their losses. Nor do I think it puts a dent in their confidence. If anything, it enforces in their head that they have to work even harder and be even better. Motivation. (Not a good reason to keep him as starter - but true nonetheless.)