Datsyuk or Fedorov

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

at this point, it's datsyuk for me.

fedorov had a few years topping a hundred points, but the majority of seasons he was below a ppg. he was amazing when he showed up. and if he put forth the effort that pavel does, he would have been the better player. but he rarely put forth the effort that pavel does.

bottom line:

pavel+pavel's work ethic > fed + fed's work ethic

[DMAC 25 18]

If it weren't for Fedorov we wouldn't have won those Stanley Cups in the 90s. No Fedorov = No Russian Five. Remember when the only good player was Steve Yzerman? They never won s*** until Fedorov came. Not to mention they made it to the playoffs when Fedorov came.

i'm not saying federov isnt good because he is but while he was with the wings he was good but what has he done after that, nothing and my personal opinion is that you have to have a good career throughtout, now before anyone says anything i know people have off years but what has he really done after the wings?

[Nogood 0]

at this point, it's datsyuk for me.

fedorov had a few years topping a hundred points, but the majority of seasons he was below a ppg. he was amazing when he showed up. and if he put forth the effort that pavel does, he would have been the better player. but he rarely put forth the effort that pavel does.

bottom line:

pavel+pavel's work ethic > fed + fed's work ethic

Fedorov topped 100 points twice and scored over a PPG 5 times, one being the lockout season. After he signed his huge contract in 97, he only scored over 82 points once.

Datsyuk in comparison has yet to score 100 points but had 97 last season and is on pace for 99. Hes scored over a PPG 4 times in his career.

Fedorov's best season, he scored 120 points, won the Hart, Selke and Pearson. This happened in a higher scoring era and when the Wings were just another run of the mill team. Its really comparable to Ovechkin and Washington now. Hes playing spectacular, there for all of the awards are thrown at him. A guy like Datsyuk CAN"T win the Hart because of the team he plays on.

So really, if Datsyuk wins the Selke again this season and possibly a cup than I think its up in their air as to which player has/was more important to the team.

Id like to see how 99 points in today's game compares to points in 1993-94.

[Kira 451]

MY CHOICE = DATSYUK

Here's my reason - Both of these players are highly talented hockey players in their prime, but one thing comes to mind for me.....ATTITUDE. Sergei always seemed to be lacking the positive attitude....great performer on the ice, but he seemed to take a lot of days 'off', where Pavel brings it every single night. He's all about team....I could never see Pav doing some of the things that Sergei pulled during his tenure with the Wings....ie; holdouts, etc.

Thank you. Nice to have backup.

No matter how good of stats you have (and I know our stat crazy poster thinks we don't know anything), attitude means a hell of a lot. You will be remembered not only for your accomplishments, but how you carried yourself and how you treated fans and teammates as well.

[eva unit zero 271]

Why is Fedorov's ability to play D being brought up? Datsyuk has never been tested but its easy to assume that the reigning Selke winner, who is faster than Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Lilja and Chelios could play D on this team.

The only reason Fedorov ever played D was punishment from Bowman. He played for the Caps this season because their entire blue line was decimated with injuries. Datsyuk hits harder than any of our top six forwards, id imagine he could hold his own playing D. But, if he were moved back, our offense would be non-existent.

The real question should be, "Which player is more important to their teams"?

Fedorov won the Hart in 1994 and was a contender other years. How many years has Datsyuk won the Hart?

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

That's because:

2. Ken Daniels wasn't here when Fedorov played or he would have found something about Fedorov's game to make up his own word about.

From the DRW website:

"Ken Daniels begins his 12th season as the Red Wings’ television play-by-play announcer after joining the team from CBC television where he covered Toronto Maple Leafs hockey and the Stanley Cup playoffs on Hockey Night in Canada".

That would make it 1997. You mean that after after watching Fedorov for the last 5 seasons he was in Detroit, Daniels couldn't come up with a special description?

[Nogood 0]

Fedorov won the Hart in 1994 and was a contender other years. How many years has Datsyuk won the Hart?

Fedorov's entire career is 1993, whats your point? Is he better than Lidstrom too? Or is it just that the 93-94 team was a weak, middle of the pack team that Fedorov stuck out on? If Fedorov had Datsyuk's season last year, he wouldn't have been nominated either, its all relative to the team a player is on.

The second Washington becomes a regular contender Ovechkin won't be winning the Hart or Pearson.

[Opie 308]

Did someone just write that a Hart and Pearson winner with two Selkes, 3 Cups, 3 wins at the world championships, some of the best string of playoff performances in the past 20 years, and the highest scoring Russian of all time in the NHL is not going to make it into the Hockey Hall of Fame?

Seriously?

He has a much stronger case than Shanahan, who will also make it in.

Yes I did,

Shanny's numbers:

1492 651 690 1341

Feds Numbers:

1217 477 684 1161

Feds numbers are not as high as Shanny's. Same cup teams, so now the difference is goals/points and hart/ selke/pearson.

Using Jim Carrey as my example (there are others, just not as glaring) one season with a trophy(ies) does not make you a HOFer.

So if we say that 94 was his Jim Carrey year ©, that eliminates two of his awards and his 120 point season.

I am not saying what he did is meaningless, just that like his play (inconsistent) it was a once in a career thing.

1994 is the only year you can say Feds was the best player. Other than that there were better players in the league and even on his team.

Feds had five years of over 80 points (83, 86, 87, 105, 120) and 12 years under 80 (79, and a shat load of 60 point seasons) I left out 97-98 where he only played 21 games and had 17 points.

Feds played 13 seasons with the Wings, of that 2 were the Selkie, Hart, Pearson years and the rest were above average. Lets not pretend like the 2 years he was phenomenal were his whole career.

Over his career he ave 64.5 points a season.

The highest scoring Russian of all time is a bs stat to throw out there, he was the first to come over in or before his prime. His totals will easily be passed by Dats, AO, and Pavel Bure would have buried (seriously no pun intended) him had he not been softer than a pane of glass.

Shanny has a better shot (IMO) at the HOF and due to his 600 goal mark and his over 1200 points is (imo) a shoe in. And I correct my original post, I don't think he is a first ballot sure fire HOFer, at the time I was thinking Yzerman Jagr and typed Yzerman Shanny, oops!

Feds may make it, but in my opinion is not a lock for the HOF, otherwise every player who had two phenomenal years is eligible.

World play, how about Shanny's 1 World Championship and Gold Medal?

Feds doesn't even have 500 goals let alone 600. He may make 1200 points but he better get on his horse if he wants to.

[Dano33 41]

Yes I did,

Shanny's numbers:

1492 651 690 1341

Feds Numbers:

1217 477 684 1161

Feds numbers are not as high as Shanny's. Same cup teams, so now the difference is goals/points and hart/ selke/pearson.

Using Jim Carrey as my example (there are others, just not as glaring) one season with a trophy(ies) does not make you a HOFer.

So if we say that 94 was his Jim Carrey year ©, that eliminates two of his awards and his 120 point season.

I am not saying what he did is meaningless, just that like his play (inconsistent) it was a once in a career thing.

1994 is the only year you can say Feds was the best player. Other than that there were better players in the league and even on his team.

Feds had five years of over 80 points (83, 86, 87, 105, 120) and 12 years under 80 (79, and a shat load of 60 point seasons) I left out 97-98 where he only played 21 games and had 17 points.

Feds played 13 seasons with the Wings, of that 2 were the Selkie, Hart, Pearson years and the rest were above average. Lets not pretend like the 2 years he was phenomenal were his whole career.

Over his career he ave 64.5 points a season.

The highest scoring Russian of all time is a bs stat to throw out there, he was the first to come over in or before his prime. His totals will easily be passed by Dats, AO, and Pavel Bure would have buried (seriously no pun intended) him had he not been softer than a pane of glass.

Shanny has a better shot (IMO) at the HOF and due to his 600 goal mark and his over 1200 points is (imo) a shoe in. And I correct my original post, I don't think he is a first ballot sure fire HOFer, at the time I was thinking Yzerman Jagr and typed Yzerman Shanny, oops!

Feds may make it, but in my opinion is not a lock for the HOF, otherwise every player who had two phenomenal years is eligible.

World play, how about Shanny's 1 World Championship and Gold Medal?

Feds doesn't even have 500 goals let alone 600. He may make 1200 points but he better get on his horse if he wants to.

Fedorov's ppg totals are better than Shanny's.

Is Dino Ciccarelli a "shoe in"? It doesn't seem like it. 608 goals, 1200 points. Just throwin that out there. I'm a big fan of Dino.

Edited January 22, 2009 by Dano33

[Never_Retire_Steve 35]

Fedorov and it's not really close.

That guys A game was sick

[Opie 308]

Fedorov's ppg totals are better than Shanny's.

Is Dino Ciccarelli a "shoe in"? It doesn't seem like it. 608 goals, 1200 points. Just throwin that out there. I'm a big fan of Dino.

No and he hit he 600 goal plateau, Feds has 100+ less goals than Dino, Dino is one of 2 players (I think) in the history of the league with 600 goals and not in the HOF. 600 goals and 1200 points are like 300 wins in baseball. They don't eliminate from the Hall, but in almost every case scoring them gets you in the hall.

I think Dino, say what you want about the era he played in, deserves the Hall more than Sergei "I had 2 unreal seasons, and a bunch of mediocre seasons" Fedorov.

BTW: Feds PPG = .95 Shanny = .89

Not exactly a huge difference .06, but point still taken, I wanted to put the numbers up to show they are not drastically different.

The hall (IMO) is not awarded for a couple of or even 7-9 great seasons it is about the whole piece, the whole career and while Feds stats plummeted, Shanny's have stayed very consistent, hmm much like both of their play.

Fedorov and it's not really close.

That guys A game was sick

How often did you see his A game?

How often do you see Dats A game?

The question isn't which would you choose when playing in a hypothetical (as I understand it) it was about who would you take on a night in night out, year after year, in their prime. Feds was hit or miss with effort and results, Dats appears to be pretty steady and consistent.

Dats has 2 cups, Feds has 3.

But not close, huh!?

Edited January 22, 2009 by Opie

[eva unit zero 271]

Fedorov's entire career is 1993, whats your point? Is he better than Lidstrom too? Or is it just that the 93-94 team was a weak, middle of the pack team that Fedorov stuck out on? If Fedorov had Datsyuk's season last year, he wouldn't have been nominated either, its all relative to the team a player is on.

The second Washington becomes a regular contender Ovechkin won't be winning the Hart or Pearson.

Fedorov was second in scoring and won the Selke in 1994. He was nominated for the Selke like what, 5 other times? He holds the record for consecutive 20-point playoff seasons. Also, Fedorov's offense dropped coincidentally with Shanahan joining the team, largely because of the drop in ice time that resulted from that. If Shanahan isn't traded for, Fedorov probably has a career point per game. Perhaps the Wings don't have as many Cups, but Fedorov would have been on the ice more and would have scored more. Yzerman also would have scored more; had he played the same length without he would likely be second All-Time in points, and at least top five All-Time in goals and assists.

[Nogood 0]

Fedorov's "A" game was for three seasons 13 years ago. Although he did come on in the playoffs, he took the regular season off. Datsyuk plays every game 100% and the playoffs. Not to mention, like ive shown above, Fedorov's personal accomplished are all going to be eclipsed by Datsyuk this season if he can pull off a Cup win and possibly a Smythe.

Fedorov got five seasons in one of the highest scoring eras of all time, coincidentally all of his "fluff" happened during that time period too.

[Nogood 0]

Fedorov was second in scoring and won the Selke in 1994. He was nominated for the Selke like what, 5 other times? He holds the record for consecutive 20-point playoff seasons. Also, Fedorov's offense dropped coincidentally with Shanahan joining the team, largely because of the drop in ice time that resulted from that. If Shanahan isn't traded for, Fedorov probably has a career point per game. Perhaps the Wings don't have as many Cups, but Fedorov would have been on the ice more and would have scored more. Yzerman also would have scored more; had he played the same length without he would likely be second All-Time in points, and at least top five All-Time in goals and assists.

Shanahan didn't cause Fedorov to drop 20-30 points per season while guys like Sakic, Forsberg, Kariya, Jagr and Selanne were scoring 100+ points.

Stop re-writing history. Fedorov was clutch in the playoffs but his best season came and went, he phoned it in after his 97 contract.

Datsyuk is the second coming of Fedorov and you can't accept that. Which is why you constantly run the guy down in every thread and hype Z. You just can't accept that your favorite player is being replaced.

[jvxp 0]

Datsyuk

[eva unit zero 271]

No and he hit he 600 goal plateau, Feds has 100= less goals than Dino, Dino is one of 2 players (I think) in the history of the league with 600 goals and not in the HOF. 600 goals and 1200 points are like 300 wins in baseball. They don't eliminate from the Hall, but in almost every case scoring them gets you in the hall.

I think Dino, say what you want about the era he played in, deserves the Hall more than Sergei "I had 2 unreal seasons, and a bunch of mediocre seasons" Fedorov.

BTW: Feds PPG = .95 Shanny = .89

Not exactly a huge difference .06, but point still taken, I wanted to put the numbers up to show they are not drastically different.

The hall (IMO) is not awarded for a couple of or even 7-9 great seasons it is about the whole piece, the whole career and while Feds stats plummeted, Shanny's have stayed very consistent, hmm much like both of their play.

How often did you see his A game?

How often do you see Dats A game?

The question isn't which would you choose when playing in a hypothetical (as I understand it) it was about who would you take on a night in night out, year after year, in their prime. Feds was hit or miss with effort and results, Dats appears to be pretty steady and consistent.

Dats has 2 cups, Feds has 3.

But not close, huh!?

Fedorov's offensive A game may not have come every night...but he was also used as a shutdown center as his primary role much of his career. Datsyuk has NEVER been used in that capacity as his primary role. That's also why I don't think Dats deserved the Selke over Zetterberg; because Zetterberg was the primary defender on the line according to Datsyuk.

[stactum 4]

They both are AWESOME! It's just pointless discussion sorta like "Crosby vs. Ovechkin"

I'm glad we had Fedorov in his prime and even more happier that we have Datsyuk now! I'll tell who was better after they both retire!

[Dano33 41]

Fedorov's offensive A game may not have come every night...but he was also used as a shutdown center as his primary role much of his career. Datsyuk has NEVER been used in that capacity as his primary role. That's also why I don't think Dats deserved the Selke over Zetterberg; because Zetterberg was the primary defender on the line according to Datsyuk.

Agreed. Who is the forward out there killing 5 on 3's? Zetterberg.

[Opie 308]

Fedorov was second in scoring and won the Selke in 1994. He was nominated for the Selke like what, 5 other times? He holds the record for consecutive 20-point playoff seasons. Also, Fedorov's offense dropped coincidentally with Shanahan joining the team, largely because of the drop in ice time that resulted from that. If Shanahan isn't traded for, Fedorov probably has a career point per game. Perhaps the Wings don't have as many Cups, but Fedorov would have been on the ice more and would have scored more. Yzerman also would have scored more; had he played the same length without he would likely be second All-Time in points, and at least top five All-Time in goals and assists.

And IF If's and but's were candies and nuts this post would be worth something. IF the wings don't sign Shanny Feds doesn't get a cup, If Bowman is not around Feds gets no cups and no 100 point seasons.

See how easy yet meaningless that is!

[eva unit zero 271]

Shanahan didn't cause Fedorov to drop 20-30 points per season while guys like Sakic, Forsberg, Kariya, Jagr and Selanne were scoring 100+ points.

Stop re-writing history. Fedorov was clutch in the playoffs but his best season came and went, he phoned it in after his 97 contract.

Datsyuk is the second coming of Fedorov and you can't accept that. Which is why you constantly run the guy down in every thread and hype Z. You just can't accept that your favorite player is being replaced.

Where in that post did you mention my favorite player?

[Opie 308]

Fedorov's offensive A game may not have come every night...but he was also used as a shutdown center as his primary role much of his career. Datsyuk has NEVER been used in that capacity as his primary role. That's also why I don't think Dats deserved the Selke over Zetterberg; because Zetterberg was the primary defender on the line according to Datsyuk.

NO, you refuse to admit that Dats is the best defensive forward on the team.

It is not that fun watching you squirm.

You say that Selke's are a reason that Feds is one of the best ever, yet the Selke is meaningless when comparing D and Z.

MAKE UP MY MIND!!!!!

Datsyuk won the Selke this year, competing against his teammate, he beat his teammate for that award, thus he was the better defensive forward.

Now using your rationale for Feds, but supplanting his name with Dats:

Datsyuk is a better defensive forward because he has won more Selke's than Hank.

EDIT: Dats always says Hank is the best at everything, I think due to the fact that Hank has been so helpful to him adjusting to the NHL and America. I think Dats respects the hell out of Hank and due to that respect said, Hank is the primary defender.

But if you look at the stats, they are almost dead even in PK time this year.

Dats leads the league in take aways you ignore it because of pk time (last year) your stance being that Z played more shorthanded minutes.

What is your excuse reason this time?

Edited January 22, 2009 by Opie

[eva unit zero 271]

NO, you refuse to admit that Dats is the best defensive forward on the team.

It is not that fun watching you squirm.

You say that Selke's are a reason that Feds is one of the best ever, yet the Selke is meaningless when comparing D and Z.

MAKE UP MY MIND!!!!!

Datsyuk won the Selke this year, competing against his teammate, he beat his teammate for that award, thus he was the better defensive forward.

Now using your rationale for Feds, but supplanting his name with Dats:

Datsyuk is a better defensive forward because he has won more Selke's than Hank.

I think the two are very close in defensive ability; I think Hank deserved to win because Datsyuk was quoted as saying that playing the wing for Hank last season made it easy to play defense because Hank did all the hard parts. If that doesn't suggest that Z deserves it between the two, what does?

[Nogood 0]

Datsyuk isn't a shutdown center? he completely eliminated Thornton during the Sharks game. Your "Shutdown center" was a minus 4 and the Sharks second line dominated Z.

This season exposes Z for what he is, a PPG player who is defensively respondsible. Unless hes paired with Datsyuk, hes not elite and hes not a Selke nominee. As it stands, Datsyuk, Richards and Kesler are going to be the finalists. I wonder if a "Slump" can last the span of a ten year deal?

[Nogood 0]

I think the two are very close in defensive ability; I think Hank deserved to win because Datsyuk was quoted as saying that playing the wing for Hank last season made it easy to play defense because Hank did all the hard parts. If that doesn't suggest that Z deserves it between the two, what does?

This season suggests that, because the difference between both players is obvious now. You're also confusing Datsyuk being humble with fact. Zetterberg would have said the same thing. I'll take the opinion of hundreds of independent observers who happen to be sports writers over a teammate praising another teammate.

The move from wing to center has done nothing to Datsyuk's game. His faceoff % is higher, his takeaways are on pace with last season and hes probably going to match his +/-, while scoring 100 points.

The "Loss" Z on his line has done nothing to Datsyuk's stake in the Selke. But the loss of Datsyuk has all but removed Z from contention.

[egroen 384]

Let's make apples to apples comparisons:

Individual Awards

Fedorov:

Hart

Pearson

Selke X2

1 1st Team All Star at Center (competing with Gretzky, Lemieux, Yzerman, Lidros, Messier, Sakic, Forsberg, Francis, Oates, Gilmour and Modano)

Shanahan:

2 1st Team All Star at Left Wing (competing with Robitaille, Kariya, Tkachuk, Graves, LeClaire, Elias and Naslund)

1 2nd Team All Star at Left Wing

Strong advantage Fedorov. the only advantage Shanahan has is All Star Teams, and I will leave it to you to decide who had better competition).

Cups

3 Each

Best Season

Fedorov 56 goals 64 assists 120 points +49

Hart, Pearson, Selke -- One of the best overall seasons ever.

Shanahan 52 goals 50 assists 102 points -9

Fedorov wins this one easily, and his second-best season (107 pts) is still better than Shanahan's best.

Regular Season

1217 gp 477 g 684 a 1161 pts 0.95 p/g Fedorov

1492 gp 651 g 690 a 1341 pts 0.90 p/g Shanahan

Fedorov beats him in points per game, while also playing a much stronger defensive game (he is still earning Selke votes to this day).

Shanahan beats him in goal scoring.

Playoffs

169 gp 51 g 117 a 168 pts 0.99 p/g Fedorov

177 gp 59 g 72 a 131 pts 0.74 p/g Shanahan

Huge advantage for Fedorov

Also consider Fedorov had FOUR post-seasons in a row where he scored 20 points or more. Incredible feat.

Shanahan has never score 20 or more points in the playoffs and has only scored more than 10 pts only twice.

Shanahan is a better goal scorer than Fedorov, but Fedorov has huge advantages in: Awards, Playoffs, peak and defensive play as well as international play.

Clear advantage to Fedorov.

Edited January 22, 2009 by egroen